Actually, I'm an egalitarian centrist. The reason I say that they do spread hate is because of their gaslighting tactics and their forced guilting of white people with experiences with racism. I am a receiver of racism myself, yet BLM wants to discredit my own experience by using the argument of "white privilege" which can't even apply to modern day Vancouver. Most of my friends are black even, and we've been friends since childhood.I say that they preach hate because of their single-minded view.
I do not deny that systemic racism exists in the USA either, but it is a bit smaller than it seems to be.Also, the eagerness to kick up hate can be seen at how quick George Floyd's death was attributed to racism. Overall, I oppose BLM because they only care about black problems, which is definitely a problem, but it is wrong to shut out and discredit other races problems just so black problems can be "fixed quicker" which isn't even the case.Equal rights is not a pie.
They're not gaslighting and they're not guilting. The message is very simple, they want black lives to matter just as much as white lives because clearly, right now they don't. There is systematic racism against black people in the United States. There has been forever. They're tired of it and I don't blame them, nor do I have any problem with them not extending the focus of their efforts beyond blacks. Having a problem that they are not doing that is about as tone deaf as it gets. Don't even try to convince me that Floyd's death wasn't based on racism. That's why it keeps happening again and again and again because each time it happens, people like you want to attribute it to something other than racism and so nothing needs to be fixed or changed and this latest event is just an unfortunate coincidence that the victim was black. And as a result, nothing ever changes cause no one will admit anything needs to and then a few months later the cycle repeats again. One of the main reasons you are seeing the outpouring of emotion by not just black people but by everyone is that we've seen this process play out again and again year after year and people of all colors are just saying... enough. Maybe if you actually lived in the U. S,, you'd understand it better.
But I'm pleased you have black friends. That's very progressive of you. I'm sure they'd be very proud of you to see in the last 3 days, you've littered the board with question after question about BLM:Why does BLM continue to disrespect Mr. Floyd by using him as a martyr to push hate?Why does BLM try to invalidate white experiences with racism?Was George Floyd killed because he was black?Why is BLM so racist?Why is Black Lives Matter so Ignorant?We both know you have zero interest in an intelligent discussion about this. You have an agenda and by God, you're going to push it as hard as you possibly can. I guess you had run out of questions to demonize feminism, a woman's desire to simply have equal rights so when this incident came along, and you had another group simply wanting to be treated equally to demonize, you thought to yourself "baby, we're back in business". Anyone who has to ask why isn't there #Mentoo or Straight Pride parades or White History Month clearly doesn't get it and is so utterly insecure and uncomfortable as a straight white male, it almost makes me feel sorry for how sad they are as a person. Almost.
Those are from a year ago and I'm not even straight anymore.
I simply ask these questions because I am angry. I'm angry of always being told that my experience doesn't mean anything. Also, my friends don't even care about any of this because maybe if you lived in Canada, you'd understand.
I demonize Feminism because it is a movement just as ignorant as BLM, driven by blind hate. Besides, I don't talk about it anymore, and again, you must be quite pathetic to look back a year in my questions.
If I lived in Canada, I'd be smart enough to do a whole lot more listening than telling on the state of Canadian race relations.
Should have read "on the state of American race relations."
I was angry, alright? I was angry of constantly seeming like I was alone in this world and there was no one to support me. You can tell me how uneducated or dumb or intolerant I am all you want, but I was not so good during that time, and the utter loneliness I faced caused me to lash out on the internet back then.I know I'm gushing, and I know I sound edgy, but it was the truth.
Your feminism questions continued non-stop until 5 months ago and were right after your 6 BLM questions so all I had to do was read down a very short way and my God, they were hard to miss and sad to read. If that makes me pathetic, so be it. And you seem to classify anything that threatens you and make you feel uncomfortable as ignorant and driven by hate instead of genuinely listening and trying to understand what they are saying and why and not instantly chalking it up as a threat to your very fragile manhood. Again, that's why the demonstrations continue, cause some people just simply won't listen.
Well you're lashing out again now just against a different group and it's not a good look. We all go through things. Life is a bumpy ride. No one gets through it without getting knocked around a little. Talk to someone about it and work through it. Your issues are not everyone else's fault.
I lash out against groups I deem ignorant and quite toxic. I did get a bit emotional there, and I do apologize.. Look, perhaps I am just a pathetic little rat of a person, but you get many things wrong about me. I have always thought of what I might feel in the other person's shoes. I have only gone after groups who have belittled my experience.
I must say though, It's quite ironic that you mention fragility, because I noticed that you got quite passionate as the conversation went by, and you started to strike at my weak spots in some pathetic deflection. I will say I might be a pathetic, lowlife male, but how about you look at yourself before you say that to me.
I'm passionate about this topic because I want to see change and I'm sick and tired of people like you who try to claim no change is needed or who find ways to blame the messenger. To watch Floyd being choked out in broad daylight in front of a crowd of people begging the cops not to kill him, to witness this and to see someone not moved by it seems hard to understand, I'm also passionate when I see people unleashing hate and will tell them what I think of them. My philosphy has never been to provoke or start arguments but if I see someone unleashing bullshit like you've been doing, I will look to take them down an notch and I will point out what I really see happening. I make no apologies for that. I'm pretty comfortable with myself to be honest and I've always accepted blame for what is my fault and don't as a rule try to blame others. My striking at your weakspots as you call it is not deflection. I've just explained why I do that, because people with a constant need to blame others for not having the life they hoped for make their weakspots about as obvious as can be. And passion does not equal fragility. People with passion are the reason things change for the better, discoveries are made, the world advances. People with passion care. Not sure how anyone could possibly even equate that with fragility. Anyway, if it helps you any, stop constantly thinking of BLM as a group and spewing hate about them. Think of it as a message and what part of that message you can support.
Yes, and that is exactly why I have always advocated for a united group of Black people, Asian people, Indigenous peoples, and everyone else. I want to see change, not changes made by a one-sided group.I have only ever denied Floyd's death as non-racially motivated because there is no such thing to support this claim aside from him being black and the officer being white. It was difficult to watch too, but I could sympathize with the black community at that moment.I have only ever wanted for this cycle of hate to stop so all of us united could work to fix the problem of racism. The only reason I have not joined BLM is due to them trying to gain the inclusivity of the black community by excluding everyone else, which is counter-intuitive to their own argument. The other reason I don't support it is because nearly every single one of them I have spoken to has tried to one-up me or say that my experience didn't matter.I thought I had gotten rid of the hate that had accumulated in me, but it turns out I just projected it onto those I deemed counterproductive, and that's what made me fragile.Look, we've misjudged each other, and I'm sorry for snapping. Perhaps we got off on the wrong foot.. I know I was a bit of a rat back then, and maybe I still am, but I have always followed a certain philosophy. If there is a problem of discrimination such as these situations, then the movement to end it must be united.
Indeed, but what about their denying of the problems some white people have with racism. With every BLM member I meet, once I tell them of my experience, they try to one up me or discredit my experience. It's highly toxic.
When the country isn't systematically racist towards minorities then we can discuss white racism. It exists sure, but it is not nearly as prevalent as racism towards non-white people and that is a far more needed discussion at the moment. Whatever your experiences, I feel for you, but if someone brings up their issues of racism as a minority and your first response is to bring up your own issues as as a white person, that is part of the problem. That is erasing black dialogue on a predominantly black issue.
Indeed, it is not, but equality is not a pie. The issue of racism must be addressed in a general stance, not segmented into several different issues.I have never supported drowning out someone's issues, as has been done to me. I do not stand for just white racism, but also all other races.
Then you should support blm. Blm is a means to an end. All lives don't matter until Black lives matter. Provide justice to the oppressed and then you can focus on the former oppressor
BLM is ignorant. They've done nothing but gaslight me on my experience and drown me out. They are why I felt alone during that difficult time. BLM isn't a means to an end, but simply a continuation of the cycle of hate.I will not put my worth as a human being down as I accept the role of "ally". I will not be drowned out. I will not be belittled.In Canada, BLM Ontario is run by Yusra Khogali, a blatant black supremacist, and her fellow leaders do not denounce her racist tweets, nor oust her. They say that her point of view is justified, that her racism is justified.I won't sign up to such a blatantly ignorant, selfish movement, especially when they stopped the pride parade in 2016 as honored guests to exclude gay cops.BLM is not as perfect as it seems.
No it's not perfect, I have my own issues with their past actions and was at one point in time against it. They've done plenty of questionable things that I don't support, but everything has. Nothing is perfect. But right now, blm is an idea. It's a movement. Its more than what it once was and at this time, to not support it leaves you on the wrong side of history.
My skin colour leaves me on the wrong side of history. Why would I support a group that says that racism is justified? I know nothing is perfect, but these are problems that can be easily fixed! I will not just wait around forever, doting on an organization that does not even care one bit about other forms of racism. Right now, BLM is a violent idea. It is nothing but a pile of fearmongering, propaganda, and one-mindedness. Think for yourself, do not let others think for you, for that is the road to compliancy and ignorance.
I do think for myself. I have friends of all races, I myself am biracial but am white-passing. In the end, one of my very good friends could be a victim to systematic racism and I'll pick the side that chooses to preserve their livelihood over one without solution.These problems are not easily fixed. They are ingrained into the fabric of the country, into the public consciousness. If it was so easily fixed we wouldn't be having these issues now, but over a century ago, and even then, that isn't that long ago.No matter which way we all protest, be it peaceful or violent the system will look down upon it and say "that is not the right way to protest". Martin Luther king and Malcolm X, two sides to the same coin. Both killed. No matter how we go about the issue the world will have an issue with it, and if my friends are ever killed because of the way they were born, I'd be burning the cities down too.
Then, it is a matter of our experiences. The modern idea of race is like a two sided dollar. You pick it up off the ground and look at the head on it, and automatically decide that it's a real dollar, though, when you finally do try to use it, it's revealed that the whole coin is doctored and that both the sides are the exact same.
What's the number of black people killed by police? Like, a yearly total? I'm genuinely curious, could you give it to me? Thanks.
There shouldn't be any people killed by police, period. That is the issue at hand, and black people are disproportionately killed more by police. That's striaght statistics. I'm done with this conversation, you cannot argue on morality. Educate yourself, have empathy, think outside of your own experience and world view.
All right, I'm asking you for the statistics. What are they? What you don't know?
That opinion is startlingly true.
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Dude, cmon. We're not here to disrespect the dead.
Why not? IF your an asshole in life why can't we call you an asshole when your dead? What part of being dead absolves you from wrong doing? Does this standard also apply to other people? Can we no longer talk about how hitler was an asshole because he is dead and we have to show our respect? What about Ted bundy? Or any number of other people who were assholes (to varing degrees of course)?
I'm not saying he deserved to die, get punched in the mouth yes but not to die, but just because he was wrongly killed doesn't change the fact that he in life shoved a gun into a pregnant woman's stomach and threatened her while is friends robbed her blind. It doesn't change the fact that he commited armed robbery, went to prison on multiple drug charges, and had gotten into his conflict with the cops to begin with because he was breaking the law (and had been very high on meth and other things). So again, why can we call some one what they are when they are alive but not when they are dead?
Because it's not essential to the argument.
But it was? They were saying it was disrespectful to use his death to push hate, yet he himself would have been right their with them looting and rioting, we know this because his criminal record says as much. Hence me pointing that out. Why would we pretend some one was something completely different then what they were? He exploited people in life to get what he wanted, they exploited his death to get what they wanted, that is not disrespect as far as I can tell.
I'm aware, but why is that relevant? What does that prove?
I already told you why it was relevant, your trying to act as if he was a martyr when he was not, your saying it disrespects his memory to loot and riot and assault people despite the fact that he, while alive, did all of those things. So that's why its relevant, your saying he wouldn't want this (despite not knowing him) yet from his behavior in life we can guess that he would be perfectly fine with all the violence because he himself was a violent man. Again, how is that NOT relevant?
Dude, can't you see that I never said he was a martyr at all? It's not relevant to the discussion of equality, nor modern events, nor anything. It just doesn't help anyone if you say that Floyd was a "murdering horrible person". It literally holds no ground.
First, I never said he was a murderer, I stated he was a criminal with a long history of robbery and assault and drug possession. those are two very different things. Second you are trying to make him look like something he was absolutely not, which is what I was referring to with the martyr comment. You are trying to white wash who he was as a person when alive by pretending like he would care when he wouldn't and trying to hide the fact that he was a scummy person. This is the way you phrased your question and I was responding to it, if you have issue with it then reconsider your question and how you phrased it. You asked why they are disrespecting George Floyd by using him as an excuse to commit crimes and push hate, yet that is precisely what he did in life ergo they are not disrespecting him (this is an objective statement, that has nothing to do with personal feelings on the topic, he was a criminal and criminals are exploiting his death like he exploited peoples weaknesses in life, period this is just what it is.). Now if you want to ask why people think its morally justifiable (or pretend to anyway) to push hate because of one incident of wrong doing, that is an entirely different question then the one you posed. I simply answered the question you ASKED, not the question you MEANT to ask. He was a scummy person, scummy people have seen a way to exploit the event no differently then he would do, and so they are one in the same (shitty people who don't care about others or doing what is right).So again, why ask the question if you didn't want answers? Why try to hide what he was as if it some how isn't pertinent to the question when it very much is (because again, you are acting as if his views are being misrepresented, his way of life ignored when in fact they are doing exactly the same thing he would do)?
respect[rəˈspekt]NOUNa feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements."the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor"synonyms:esteem · regard · high regard · high opinion · acclaim · admiration · [more]due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others."young people's lack of respect for their parents"synonyms:due regard · consideration · thoughtfulness · attentiveness · politeness · courtesy · civility · deference
Because that is intellectual freedom. It is a needed thing.
... Being stupid is intellectual freedom? Um. ... Sure...
Well, then, why am I stupid? I want to see your standpoint.
I don't know if you're stupid, but it's a good guess, since you asked a stupid question. Most of the time, non-stupid people don't ask stupid questions. I guess sometimes they do, but it's rare. So it's only logical to assume that you are.
Fair, but, why is the question stupid?
Um... because BLM *isn't* disrespecting Mr. Floyd.
This question offers the same logical fallacy as asking, "Why is the world flat?" You're asking the "why" of something that doesn't exist. It's not an answerable question. And therefore, it's stupid. BLM isn't disrespecting him, and isn't pushing hate. You must not know what the word "hate" means-- I suggest consulting a dictionary.
Alright, let's go down the line here.1. BLM Ottawa has a blatant black supremacist as its leader, and she's encouraged to act in this way.2. BLM has organized violent riots, intentionally spiking up racial tension, and using Floyd as propaganda to push violence.3. BLM refuses to care about racism towards any other groups.Here's the problem I have with people with thinking similar to yours. You immediately assume every single group working towards a noble cause is good, but It's not all that clean cut.
Amazing. Everything you just wrote is wrong.
Yusra Khogali literally made a tweet saying that white people are sub-human. You can find it on google images easily.Who else would be organizing these riots? Several BLM leaders support it.They certainly do try to discredit me on the racism I have faced in my life, an experience which has impacted me deeply.Do you actually have any points to disprove what I'm saying or are you just going to say it's stupid over and over? I'm actually up for new ideas.
1) There are no real leaders of BLM-- they/we are decentralized. It's not like there are bylaws and fees or something. It's not the Boy Scouts. I can be a leader if I want. You can too. Anyone can organize in its name-- it is an idea, not an organization, really.2) I have no idea who that one person is who you mentioned, nor do they matter, whoever they are. Your rationale that if one person, or a few individual people, voice "extreme" views-- though I doubt that's actually the case, it's far more likely that you simply don't really understand what they're saying-- somehow negates the reasonable voices of millions of other people who are not being extreme by saying that racism in American policing is wrong and needs to stop, is flawed. Your rationale is flawed.3) If you are white, and you have been made purposely uncomfortable at some point due to your skin color, there is a difference between that (which may have had a good reason, or possibly did not have a good reason) and being killed by a police officer for your skin color. If you are white, your ancestors were not bought and sold as property by other human beings. I have also been made uncomfortable at some point due to my skin color, and because I'm white, I had the opportunity to simply learn from it and move on; many black and brown folks are not given that chance.4) The overwhelming supermajority of demonstrators have not been rioting. At all. In any way. A very, very small minority have been. Everyone knows this.
You make solid points, but there are a few flaws.1. That's debatable seeing that many are the voices of BLM, including the racist that I talked about.Yusra Khogali and Kathleen Wynn's meeting is an example.2. They actually do matter seeing as they are the biggest BLM chapter within Canada and they were not denounced or ousted for their racist beliefs. Her outlook was actually backed up by her compatriots by saying it was justified.Well, it's easy to create that image. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but they seem to have a radical left alignment due to the things they say on their website (https://blacklivesmatter. com/what-we-believe/) and this debatably biased summary video (https://www. youtube. com/watch? v=MaF1D8iFI6A). That's how you trick naïve people into supporting you.3. Well, fair point on that first sentence, but have you ever heard of the Berber slave trade that enslaved a huge amount of white people? About 1/5th the number of the slave trade? Slavery is not just confined to black people.I don't really have that option either due to me being a minority in my society. I'm not trying to get pity from that either.That's the toxic idea BLM portrays. "Every single white person has privilege and doesn't face racism" is a quite moronic idea, because all races face racism.4. Many leaders of the BLM movement have been supporting the riots. The toxicity of the group is not limited to a "very small" amount. It's actually quite big.Ending: While I can see your standpoint, I believe from what I've seen that it's willful ignorance, and mostly built on you insulting your opponent's intellectuality. While I won't say that I haven't been a snarky little rat, honestly, it's better to calmly convince rather than make yourself look bad.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Well done. "I'm no conspiracy theorist, but they seem to have a radical left alignment" ohhh champ. You're special.
Yet they praise a cop-killing member of the Black Liberation Army? Look into it, maybe you'll learn something? Just make your own opinion instead of following people blindly.
Oh honey... I have. And it's not an opinion. You're an idiot.
Alright, sure. You can think of me as an idiot. Just know the world isn't as black and white as it seems.
Oh I already know that.
Now, how am I disrespectful? I wish to see your opinion on me.
Well for example BLM is not really using Floyd to push hate, the rioting and such is just a response to people trying to forcefully shut down their movement such as police brutality. On the flip side you are also trying to use Floyd to undermine BLM and personally I have no idea about Floyd's political ideology but that just smacks to me as trying to push politics on his corpse.
Yet they encourage racism? Say that it's justified towards white people? That is what I have seen with the Ontario branch of BLM.There is a difference with pushing politics and trying to point out the blatantly obvious. I am simply saying to let the man rest, and that is what I have believed in. Why would I be that petty?
Allow me to rephrase that. I am using BLM's actions to undermine them, while they use his death as an opportunity.
That's pretty fair.
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