That's not true at all. You can be a muslim and never read quran, hadith or sira, which is the trilogy the whole religion is based. You can be a muslim and truly believe it's the religion of peace. But what isis is doing is very much like what muhammad was doing towards the end of his life. And in islam muhammad is the perfect example of a muslim. Everything that muhammad did was perfect and every muslim should live like muhammad. He also had 6 year old wife by the way.
His wife was older than 19 if you research the right sources... by the way
I agree he was a perfect example of a Muslim, and if everyone followed Islam like he did, it'd be nth like isisBut to each their own. That's all I'm gonna say
But if you agree then why did you just disagree that isis is islam? It's not like muhammad "followed islam his own way" he's the prophet of islam. "Each of their own" Okay so you decide you don't follow it like he did. then what the hell are you following exactly? :D Your own imaginary version of islam? Muhammad = Islam.
Also I'm curious about this "right" source. And by the way I'm talking about Aisha, not about his other wives.
Huh? I haven't at all said that I agree. I said that if people followed Islam like Muhammad did, it would be nothing like ISIS. Can you read again? Exactly.. he is the prophet and if you actually read about him (from credible sources, not from bullshit propaganda) you'll see what type of person he was, which is nth like ISIS. Even his wife, like I said, was way older than 6, she was around 19 if not older, but people still choose to believe the bullshit they're being fed and ignore history facts and calculations. "Okay so you decide you don't follow it like he did. Then what the hell are you following exactly?" Personally I'm not even Muslim, despite being Arab, but I'm not against Islam in any way. In fact the religion makes a lotta sense. "Your own imaginary version of Islam? Muhammad = Islam" Agreed that Muhammad equals Islam, which also means isis is nowhere near Islam as it should be as a religion. That's all I have to say now. I'm not about to open a whole topic here with proofs and shit cuz.. do your own damn research. You people are lazy as fuck and just open Google and search "Muhammad pedophile" instead of reading his biography (from a freaking credible source). Everyone chooses to see what they wanna see. Rarely people research for the purpose of researching. Same thing goes for other religions or holy books. Opening the first page, seeing a bunch of words and translating them literally instead of searching for the context, because you wanna make it fit your own narrative. So that's why I'm also not gonna spoon feed you here, neither am I about to try and explain stuff or even try to convince you. It's not my job, and it's not my goal in life either. At the end of the day everyone has a brain to use, and reach their own convictions. That's all. Peace ✌️
Response to your most recent comment - I was talking bout Aisha too. Not his other wives
I didn't know nth meant "nothing". I thought it was some kind of typo, because I'm used to actual words and not familiar with how teenagers talk nowdays. It's actually weird that you can type that long but you can't type nothing instead of nth. Anyway I have read the English translations of quran, hadith and sira. The trilogy that the whole religion is based on. You on the other hand are talking about some kind of "credible source" that contradicts all of that. I'm still curious what on earth that is because whenever you google these matters you get exactly what the Islamic doctrine says. Are you sure you are talking about something you have researched yourself and not something your nice muslim friends have told you. Also when you say "everyone see what they wanna see". That includes yourself obviously, otherwise you wouldn't say it. I don't agree with that. I see whats in front of me. It's very straightforward. So you are admitting you see what you wanna see, not what you actually see. Have you read quran, hadith and sira?
It's funny that you have this "credible source" you are so mysterious about as if people are being lazy and stupid not finding it themselves. Isn't it very understandable and obvious that most people, like myself, assume the quran, hadith and sira, the trilogy of islam to be the most credible source? But you on the other hand have completely different, but credible source that contradicts what you'd first assume to be the real teaching. But you just don't wanna talk about it because you don't want to "spoon feed" anyone and you want people to "use their own brain". Also if everything I've read about islam is a lie, how on earth a google search would tell me what's the credible source you are referring to when there are so many sources? So stop the bullshit and give the credible source or you are full of shit.
With a simple google search I've also found that Aisha wasn't 16 when she married Muhammad and that Muhammad def was not a slave trader, for example, since those two are the biggest controversies about him. You find it right away when googling it, there are many scholars, doctors, etc who have given proofs about it. Yes, I've read and studied Quran, Hadith and sira, for many years, so I'm not exactly ignorant about it either. And what I can say is that even if you read three of them, they are indeed the primary thing you need to read to understand Islam, but you also need to search for the context in which the verses were brought upon to Muhammad (for the lack of better wording), and how the lifestyle of people was back then, in order to understand the progress Islam really brought in in life back then, in the practices people had back then, and how it changed things gradually, instead of forcing rules that no one would have been able to take back then.
Which is also why, Quran is super super flexible. Like one meaning back then, could be understood in a different way, depending on the current lifestyle, because of the fact of how it's written (I've read it in Arabic and can say its language is very rich and holds many meanings, which is why it needs to be interpreted in the right way, which literal English translation doesn't always bring, unfortunately. There are several translations of it, I believe. I don't personally know cuz I've never read it in English). Quran holds meanings in meanings, the verses themselves are numbered and some scholars have even studied those numberings to arrive to certain connections between them and the history, present and sometimes even using it for the future as well. The number of letters used in a verse as well has its own meaning.. like it's not just your ordinary book with a bunch of rules. But that's also why, there is a lot of controversies regarding the Quran, because of the many interpretations it can hold, which is why again, context is very very important. historical events leading to that verse being brought to Muslims at that time is also very important. Seeing why certain rules have been imposed the way they are at that time (again changing the lifestyle that been present back then) also will explain a lot of these controversies.
By people see what they wanna see, I mean exactly that. If you have some type of narrative then you wanna prove it to yourself instead of fighting the thought and trying to criticize and prove the opposite, and if not possible, accepting your hypothesis. I've had a time where I was against Islam too, I saw it as a very oppressive barbaric religion, and I probably would have still seen it like that if I didn't tell myself to try and be objective about it and read about it instead of just looking at what people do and how Muslims are (cuz let's face it, some Muslims are fucking annoying). I just wanted to know the truth, why is it so shitty, why is it so restrictive? And I found out.. people make it to be like that, when in reality it's a simple religion. On one hand most of the western world wanna make it seem like this backwards religion that doesn't give a chance for progress, and on the other hand Muslims nowadays aren't helping themselves at all, cuz they're only treating the religion as part of their heritage but aren't truly learning it that deeply, while terrorists bring a bunch of controversial verses and tell you "well here it is, it's written so I'mma blow you up cuz God told me so" whereas the verses again, are clearly taken out of context, soooo really Muslims aren't helping themselves to be seen in a better light. But I hope with time more people start to wake up about it.
Lastly, I say "nth" cuz I type fast and that's how I'm used to saying it, since I wanna save time in writing. I'm not a teenager, I'm 23, almost 24, not that it matters, cuz even if I am a teenager this doesn't mean I'm less informed.
But again how do you come into conclusion that the first google search is the most credible. How do you know what is the most credible. What matters the most is what is in the official text because that's what the "true" muslims follow, not the half ass muslims who never read their own texts but believe what they want or are told of their own religion. Also the last caliph of Isis, "al-Baghdadi has a doctorate for Islamic studies in Quranic studies from Saddam University in Baghdad" How is not the Harvard of Islam credible source? Yes the quran is messy and doesn't make sense because it's not originally written in chronological order and it lacks context. But there are versions which are written in chronological order and the life of muhammad (context) is integrated in it. You also say that in arabic the meanings can be different. Fair enough, but it's definitely not so much different that the story changes from mass murders to peaceful teaparties depending how you interpret it. You say Islam is a simple religion. No islam is not a religion. It's a political system and complete way of life. Westerners don't have anything against the religion part, but the political system of Islam that seeks to overwrite the western principles of society. The goal of islam is that everyone converts to it, you can see this already happening and it's been happening since muhammad. You also say that Islam makes sense and is simple. Writing a chapters of a book in length order is a logic of a 5 year old. And if the text is so flexible you can interpret it the way you like, how does that make it simple religion that makes sense. It doesn't make any sense. If I write a book and people can be flexible on how they understand it, I have failed badly as an author. Flexible and with many meanings sounds fancy, but you must be a fool to think it's a great quality of a book or a teaching.
Oh yea and I forgot maybe the most important thing. In islam it's also okay to lie to non believers if it helps spreading islam. What better way to help spread islam than say it's not the violent religion you hear about. That way muslims get the acceptance of the country they want to immigrate to. Immigration is big part of islam, that's when the success began. Muhammad moving from Mecca to Medina and starting the political and Jihad side of islam. The peaceful part in Mecca didn't bring any success to Islam. And remember, the latest version is always better. So for islam to reform we'd need a new prophet to overwrite the old one. But wait, Muhammad is the last and the only prophet. So that can't happen either. So when you understand this, and you of course do because you have studied islam, you can also see why it takes any credibility away from the apologist. Even if they truly believe in what they say.
Bruh from your first line I can see just how you like to twist shit. Did I say the first thing you read when you Google is the credible source? No! On the contrary, that's what most people do anyway and arrive to wikipedia (the least credible source on the entire planet) and don't bother to go further than that so how is that a research. Anyway, I'm so tired of this so I'll stop here. It's getting annoying. Not gonna bother to read more esp when you say Islam is not a religion. That's ignorant af
I asked you multiple times to give me a credible source. Your best answer was "Simple google search, it's right there" But how do I or you know the information that is "right there" is the most credible? This is what you say: "You find it right away when googling it, there are many scholars, doctors, etc who have given proofs about it." So yes you are basically saying the first google search that gives the information is the credible one. That's the only thing YOU have given me when I asked about it repeatedly. Give me NAMES and tell me why they are more credible source than quran, hadith and sira. Or you don't even have to tell me why, I'll look into it myself when you just give me one NAME whose work I can look into. In fact we would have saved all this time debating if you did it right away. But I guess I didn't ask for a name specifically earlier.
Yeah and I should have said it's not ONLY a religion. It's a way of life that contains every aspect of human life. Politics, law and the religion is just a small part of it. In fact it's the part that I don't care about because it doesn't affect me. The political side affects me that's why I care about it. I don't want sharia in my country, that is the ultimate goal.
I've had this talk with many people and even after giving those credible sources they're like "you sound like a Muslim who wants to modernize Islam" or whatever. Do your own goddamn research. Yes, simple google search would do (no, that doesn't mean the first thing you find on Google, yet I'm not telling you to go to ten different libraries and search in super old books either, so the search is rather simple) I gave my opinion on the question you asked, I'm not here to prove myself, cuz I've done this before, I've given proves and sources and it was useless, so I'm not about to put myself in the same endless pit, cuz I'm just not interested. If you're so interested to see them, it's not gonna be that hard, do your job. Bubye now
Quit being an idiot and try to understand what I say. "Simple google research will do".. Well google search doesn't say what is the CREDIBLE SOURCE. They are all equally credible from their own point of view. It doesn't say "This is credible, and this is not credible". How is it even possible you don't understand what I'm trying to say. Do you think anyone does research on information they thought was NOT credible. So why don't you just give a name of the MOST credible source of knowledge on Islam? Because you don't know one. You are too insecure in your trust for that source that you don't give a name. I promise i'll not comment anything after. If I disagree with the source I'll just keep it my own information and not start arguing against it.
Trust me I don't want to keep debating this either, I prefer to read on my own. So why not just give one name I can research and I promise to keep it to myself.
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