You certainly live up to your username sir C:
@Hunter7754 I appreciate your kind words!
No problem! if you can, check out the mytake I posted!
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Please don't use disposable masks! A simple cotton one with two layers is as good as a simple medical mask, and you can wash and/or iron them between uses, without clogging up the oceans!
@goaded Disposable masks are far more safe than non-disposable. I am not even sure how well re-usable masks would work over time since the whole point of them is to trap contaminants inside the fabric, I doubt washing it would get it out again. Sure you might kill it but how long until its fully absorbed?Regardless re-usable masks require an extra amount of care and training that I can't expect from normal people and reusable masks should be properly disposed of in the first place and not thrown into the ocean.
I mean, if the empirical evidence says that it works, it works. Comparing it to masks used in chemical warfare at that point is pointless.
There's a paper where they tested 14 different masks; all but one of them were better than nothing, most of them, even simple ones were nearly as good as the sort your dentist wears.
Nice. Did anyone else notice that he didn't demonstrate without a mask? Haven't you seen the massive clouds that come out of a car window when someone's vaping?
@goaded The point is that masks don't stop vapors, not that vaping doesn't create clouds.
No, the point is that simple masks aren't expected to eliminate the spread of the virus, just reduce it sufficiently to tip the effective reproduction rate value to less than 1, so infections go down, not up.Seatbelts don't save people from all car accidents, but more people survive with them than without. It's the same with masks.
@goaded Except maks don't stop particles as small as covid-19.
They don't have to stop all of them, just enough to make an infected person pass the virus on to less, rather than more, than one other person on average. That's all, it's not that complicated.Can masks, by themselves, do that? I don't know. Do masks, and social distancing, combined? It looks that way, judging by countries who've tried it.
@goaded like Sweden?
Sweden was the sweetheart of the "don't do anything" morons. They've killed an even greater proportion of their population than the US, although the US will overtake them in a few days. Their economy dropped just as much as Denmark's.I don't know when they introduced new measures, but it looks like mid- to late-June, by the massive drop in new cases.www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
@goaded you think case mortality rate is good math, so you’ve proven how dumb you are.
You're just bringing that up to distract from everything I just said, but OK.No, like I said in an earlier conversation, it's a crap metric until the pandemic's run it's course (I even wrote a take about it: The COVID-19 statistic Trump is hanging his hat on. ↗ ), but it's still better than making up numbers out of thin air.
@goaded Well because you claiming Sweden has the 2nd worse death rate is patently untrue. Per 100,000 they aren’t even top 10
Sweden vs. NY
I don't know where you got that first graphic, but it misses out a load of countries*.Here's the original data: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortalityI've been working with https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ ; Sweden has 574 deaths per million, and the USA as a whole (567) just dropped out of the bottom ten because Brazil (570) overtook them. NY has 1,698 deaths per million.The second graphic is comparing a state with population density 159/km² to a country with half the population and 25 people/km², and a tendency to socially distance.* Country, cases, deaths, case fatality, deaths/100k San Marino 710 42 5.9% 124.32Peru 639,435 28,607 4.5% 89.43Belgium 85,042 9,894 11.6% 86.62Andorra 1,124 53 4.7% 68.83United Kingdom 336,668 41,586 12.4% 62.55Spain 439,286 29,011 6.6% 62.09Chile 409,974 11,244 2.7% 60.03Italy 268,218 35,477 13.2% 58.71Brazil 3,862,311 120,828 3.1% 57.68Sweden 83,958 5,821 6.9% 57.16US 5,996,431 183,066 3.1% 55.95Mexico 595,841 64,158 10.8% 50.84
And when did I claim "Sweden has the 2nd worse death rate"? I said it was worse than the USA as a whole.
@goaded but it isn’t. So you’re wrong.
I'm wrong because the facts prove me right?Your first graphic, misses out a load of countries.Here's the original data: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality it says:Country, cases, deaths, case fatality, deaths per 100kSweden 83,958 5,821 6.9% 57.16US 5,996,431 183,066 3.1% 55.95
@goaded using the same BS CFR.
It happens to be one of the columns, but not the one that we're talking about. That's the deaths per capita, the one on the right. The one you're obsessed with is the one that Trump uses, and also makes the US look better than Sweden.Sweden 83,958 5,821 6.9% 57.16US 5,996,431 183,066 3.1% 55.95The one that has anything to do with masks, and taking things seriously is the new cases per million, which is 17 for Sweden, and 128, for the US.
@goaded YOU are obsessed with the one Trump uses. How stupid are you?
For continuing with this conversation? Pretty stupid, I guess.I didn't bring up case fatality rates, you did. Twice.But that was just to distract from the facts that wearing a mask is better than no mask, that Sweden didn't do very well until the people started taking it seriously, and the US currently has 128 new cases per million, per day, to Sweden's 17. Oh, and while many individual states did far worse than any other country, now the whole USA is on track to overtake Sweden's death rate per million by the end of the week, and Italy's a few days later. (Then Spain and the UK, by the end of the month, assuming nothing much changes.)
@goaded Masks don't work, and they can hurt. Plus they make you stupid.
Speaking from experience? Of course they work.nypost.com/.../
@goaded Nah, I don't wear them.
So you're just naturally this way?Back to the beginning of this conversation: "simple masks aren't expected to eliminate the spread of the virus, just reduce it sufficiently to tip the effective reproduction rate value to less than 1, so infections go down, not up".
@goaded You either mask everyone up and open everything, or keep healthy people locked up and "socially distanced" Pick one and stick with it.I'm still waiting to hear what the benefit there is for someone wearing a mask who does not have covid.
Did you ever ask that question? The benefit is that you get to live in a country with fewer sick people. Which means they're less likely to make you sick. Also, you never know for sure you're not infected.You wear masks in enclosed spaces with other people, and when you can't easily stay two metres apart. You adjust your behaviour to fit the circumstances, and for the safety of others.You don't (hopefully) drive quickly through pedestrian areas, even though you won't get hurt if you run over a few people, and you don't drive at 70mph in town, or 30mph on the motorway, do you?
@goaded There's no benefit to a healthy person wearing a mask.
I just told you what it was.
@goaded no you didn’t. There’s zero benefit. Because if the mask is about “protecting others” I can’t harm others if I don’t have the virus.
How do you know you don't have the virus?
@goaded Cause I have antibodies already.
Riiight. And that's why you've gone from arguing that masks don't do anything (so nobody has to wear them), to you, personally, don't need to wear one. Colour me skeptical.However, there are still two good reasons to wear a mask when in close proximity to strangers:1. Re-infection still hasn't been ruled out (and anti-body tests can give a false positive)2. You miight be "mistaken" for an idiot who doesn't give a toss about anyone but themselves.
@goaded I don't give a flying fuck what you believe. The point is mass masking is stupid on top of them being ineffective.1) The rumors of reinfection are very weak. As weak as these "lifetime of organ damage" scare stories2) Again, you maskholes wearing cloth on your face like a bunch of mindless robots because you were told to calling me an 'idiot' is the height of irony.