What about speed limits? Is complying bad there, too?
No? where a fucking mask. It saves lives
Many countries in Europe have controlled the situation quite well without any strict measures such as wearing masks.I have only used a mask when I travelled outside my own country in the past few months and where it was mandatory.I agree with @NamerOfStars that Sweden seems to be doing quite okay, while many other countries are now facing a second wave. Sweden's approach was basically according to the international handbook for pandemics. Almost all other countries took more measures than advised. In Europe, the approach is now changing as it seems that the choice Sweden made wasn't maybe that bad after all.The WHO confirms that there is no evidence that masks help for healthy people: apps.who.int/.../...-nCov-IPC_Masks-2020.3-eng.pdf" The wide use of masks by healthy people in the community setting is not supported by currentevidence and carries uncertainties and critical risks.""In addition to these factors, potential advantages of the use of mask by healthy people in the community setting include reducing potential exposure risk from infected person during the “pre-symptomatic” period and stigmatization of individuals wearing mask for source control. However, the following potential risks should be carefully taken into account in any decision-making process:• self-contamination that can occur by touching and reusing contaminated mask• depending on type of mask used, potential breathing difficulties• false sense of security, leading to potentially less adherence to other preventive measures such as physical distancing and hand hygiene• diversion of mask supplies and consequent shortage of mask for health care workers• diversion of resources from effective public health measures, such as hand hygiene"
If someone has read studies that conflict with masks helping, and made the decision to believe that- then they’re also entitled to that.
I call BS
What about seatbelts?
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There is proof. That's why doctors and dentists have always worn them when in close proximity with a patient
Do you have a citation to the proof? Remember that the PPE work in the medical field is not comparable to the masks work by the general public.
@OlderAndWiser It's a medical pandemic. Masks help prevent the spread of disease, that's exactly why it's worn. It's in the air particles. www.mayoclinic.org/.../coronavirus-mask
If the link doesn't work: www.mayoclinic.org/.../art-20485449
So masks aren't perfect, but it's better than nothing
What you cited is an advice sticker but not s scientific study. Unfortunately, this is an area in which many people have preconceived notions and they don't want to be proven wrong.Six months ago, we were told not to bother wearing face masks and that advice was delivered with absolute certitude. Now we are told there exact opposite and that advice is delivered with absolute certitude. Do why should we automatically believe public health advice just because it is delivered by an MD and delivered with certitude?
@OlderAndWiser Because we're better safe than sorry. It's just a mask
@kibbenkat Okay. I can accept that rationale, and I agree with it, but when public health officials speak to us, I expect more honesty than we have received recently.
The govt is us. It’s a social contract to not endanger your community.
Yes and no. Half the population is forcing it on the other half. It's a bit like saying oh you elected you boss and he immediately turned around and reduced your salary. You probably didn't vote for that to happen but you did vote him as your boss.
"I don't want to fight but it has a lot more to do with being told what to do by the government."Well I'm sorry to burst your bubble but any effort against a pandemic has to be communitarian (government based) to work.
That is actually not true at all. Before the mandate you know what everyone did. They would wear their mask around. All the mandate did was make people angry. Tbh after the mandate I saw less people wearing mask in stores. Cops are refusing to enforce it now where when it was store by store they were. So tell me how the Government helped?
There is no mask mandate. Private businesses are just protecting themselves from you people.
Where I live the cops are supposed to arrest and fine you
Correction: most people wore masks but when pandemics were simulated what modelers find is that it only takes a small portion of the population to not take preventative measures to undo most of the impact of said measure.
Yeah so now we have less people wearing. Whole movements around not wearing, and police refusing to police the rule so modelers would be like umm there's a mess up here. Give the people the freedom to choose
Do you have any evidence that less people are wearing it or is that just an anecdote.
@Ad_Quid_Orator The evidence are the spikes in Covid cases. Like from the event in Sturgis.
" 5 years ago a study was done that found cloth masks to be ineffective at stopping or slowing the spread of vriuses."Authors? Link? Title?
@goaded I believe we have had this conversation before.
And did you come up with a link, title or authors of the supposed study?
It's wearing an effin mask versus people dying. Maybe it would be something different if we were required to wear the masks forever. But the vaccines are on their way and it is highly probable that we have a few fairly safe and effective vaccines by the end of the year. So we can expect to have like 50% of the people vaccinated by spring 2021 (no, you won't have to get vaccinated, many others will get vaccinated for themselves and for you). By then we will be able to ditch the masks except in special circumstances. So we are talking of wearing masks for about half a year from now versus people losing their whole life.
@GerdchenBy your logic, we should always wear a mask forever. We should have been wearing them for decades, or even centuries in the past. Because it would save lives. Your argument doesn't explain what's so special about corvid-19. If it's good for corvid-19, it should be good for past, present and future. We should shut everything down permanently to save lives. We should build state of the art hospitals in every town with over a population of 10, because it would saves lives. We should not build housing, because building them is dangerous. We should not have farmers, because farming is one of the most dangerous occupations there is.The reason we don't do those things is because it's not practical. There are all kinds of dangers in life, and we have to accept them.I worked in construction work myself for many years. I am VERY aware of safety. That's what kept me alive and in one piece all those years. That work really was dangerous. Covid-19 is not. There are millions of people doing all types of dangerous work. People do it because we can't live in a bubble, afraid to go outside because something bad might happen.We get the work done. We keep the economy going. We are aware that a lot of things can hurt or kill us, but we do it anyway. This virus is not even close to justifying the extreme measures taken. If someone thinks it's justified, then why was it not justified in the past? If you can't justify why it was not done last year, or five years ago, or ten years ago, then you can't justify it today.
"We should have been wearing them for decades, or even centuries in the past. Because it would save lives. Your argument doesn't explain what's so special about corvid-19"Very simple answer: We don't have a Covid 19 vaccine yet.Of course it would be good to wear masks in order to prevent lots of Flu cases. But we have Flu vaccines and almost anybody can have a quite effective protetion against the Flu.That's why it's important to wear the masks until the vaccine is applied in quantities. It would still be OK to wear it longer, but that would just be nice-to-have.
@Gerdchen That doesn't justify it. There are LOTS of things that could potentially be done to save lives. But they aren't done because there are other considerations.As far as vaccines, there is no reason to think an effective corvid vaccine will be available in the near future. Effective means it has to work, and it has to be given to mass numbers of people. Polio took 30 years to be eradicated in the US after there was a vaccine, that's even with mandatory vaccination. Worldwide, it still has not been eradicated. Same with most other things that have vaccines.Flu vaccines don't work very well either. They are less than 50% effective. There are still hundreds of thousands of flu deaths each year, including people who were vaccinated. How many of those deaths could be prevented with masks? I don't know, but it's certain that a lot would. Again, we don't wear masks to prevent those deaths.There are many other viruses and other diseases that are preventable, but we don't wear masks for those either.What about traffic fatalities? Shut everything down and millions of lives could be saved. So why don't we? Again, there are other considerations.We could ban a lot of foods to save lives. We could mandate that people get exercise to save lives.I'm not being facetious when I say we should stop farmers or construction workers. It might seem like that's getting absurd, which is true. But it addresses the same point. That safety and saving lives is not, nor can it be, the only factor.All these things I mentioned can use exactly the same arguments as the ones made for the response to covid-19. The loss of lives due to corvid is fairly low. It's only a few percentage increase over the normal death rate. Most of the rest of the deaths are at least partly preventable if certain actions are taken. We don't take those actions because there are other considerations and it's not practical.
@Gerdchen Yes. it's sad that people have lost their lives due to this virus. But the world we live in has a million ways to kill us. We can't hide in a bubble because we are afraid of the things that can hurt or kill us. We take out chances on a daily basis. The overreaction to this virus is making people downright paranoid to the point of being completely irrational. A year ago they weren't afraid to go outside, but suddenly the are, even though the risk of dying from covid is lower than the risk they've been taking their entire lives.You have to live your life. I say the same exact thing about all the other things that can kill us. We take a chance every time we go outside, or even stay inside. The risk we take on a daily basis has not increased in any substantial way.
"What about traffic fatalities? Shut everything down and millions of lives could be saved. So why don't we? Again, there are other considerations."We have a ban on DUI, we have speed limits and many other limitations.If you really want to go through with tha anti mask arguments, you must also demand that these restrictions are waived.
@GerdchenI don't have to demand that DUI laws and speed limits are waived.DUI is a widely accepted danger that is quantifiable. We know for a fact that it's deadly. DUI laws are effective and socially accepted. As I've been saying about the covid response, there are other things to consider. With DUI, there little else to consider. There is no real downside.Speed limits are not quite so clear as DUI, but it's similar. It's quantifiable. It's socially accepted. There is very little downside.Mask usage is not quantifiable. It's not socially accepted. It has several downsides. Probably the biggest are the psychological downsides. It's feeding paranoia, turning people into germophobes, causing people to be irrational, and perpetuates a widespread negative ill feeling.On the concrete side, masks are not easy to breath through. Not everyone breaths the same. A LOT of people have a hard time breathing through them. It's horrible. I even quit a job once because I had to wear a mask all day.Mask usage has not been quantified. The WHO didn't even recommend masks for a long time. They only started recommending them when it became known that covid-19 could be spread by pre-symptomtic people. Even then it was only precautionary, but not considered a main line of defense.We have a mask law where I live. Before the law went into effect about 10-20% of the people wore masks. After the law virtually everyone does. When the law went into effect there was no noticeable decrease in the number of new cases. It pretty much stayed flat.
@Gerdchen The real damage from this virus is not the virus or the deaths. It's the over reaction that's the real damage. There are the obvious things like wrecking the economy. tens of millions of jobs losses in the US alone, and a bunch of other things. Then there is the psychological part. This over reaction, and all the sensationalism is majorly screwing people up in the head. As far as I"m concerned, this is a HUGE reason to get rid of all mask requirements, and tell people to stop wearing them voluntarily unless they are high risk of getting or spreading the virus. The goal should be to get this nightmare over with and get back to normal. Mask requirements just keep feeding the nightmare.
You can take the vaccine. But I won't. I won't risk my health to take a shot at something probable or not that will effectively work... or not. I don't need other people to watch out my health for me.You wanna take the vaccine shot for me? Go right ahead. Hope it works. And it better work.And if it DOESN'T work? Well, at the end of the day I'LL be okay.My health is my own damn responsibility. Worry about yours.
@Andéersin As I said, you won't have to. But it would be a sign of greatness if you would wear a mask in vicinity of other people just until the vaccine is ready. I and many others have no problem taking it and engaging in the according risk, partly also for your protection, if you just help us survive long enough to do it eventually.
And if it don't work THEN WHAT?
this poll just perfectly represents how influential the media and politics are and how ignorant people are about science and facts.
My doc says the same thing. Thankfully not all doctors are money hungry little bitches, and will tell you the truth. Fauci is just waiting for the payoff of the vaccine. The “deadly disease” is nothing more then a flu
@SexyAshh exactly. People never gave a shit about the flu and it kills thousands too.
The funny thing is the people on tv that are being shown that there having like their whole families dying, they are crisis actors. They were also at sandy hook and multiple other school shooting sites. Funny how naive and idiotic people can be. Pretty sure people that go into buildings harboring actually deadly esbestus are wearing cloth mask🤦🏼♀️ like get real, they are wearing extreme gas looking masks. There is plenty of info on how fauci let 1000 die when there was something found to treat aids years back, but he waited because he wanted more money for a vax or meds, i forget which. Whole covid things a political hoax and i can't believe so many people just blindly believe it whats currently going on.
Tbh i kept catching colds and my doc said that the only thing that would help was to STOP wearing the mask. Apparently we are being held to wear them to weaken our immune systems, another appeal for the shot.
@SexyAshh yeah i personally know over 20 people who tested positive for it. Most didn't even know they had it and 3 said it was just like any cold really. Nbd.
Exactly, same. Funny thing is, i have a great aunt that is old, has repsiratory issues from being a chronic smoker, even missing a lung (so would be a top risk to catch covid). She caught it, and it just gave flu like symptoms as well. So literally even the immuno suppressed its not a big deal...
@SexyAshh yeah and when this first happened i had n95 masks and cnn and liberals made fun of all the "preppers" and then as soon as i learned its not a big deal now they are mask fucking crazy. Which is it? You know? How can you trust them. They are completely opposite of what makes sense.
Nancy pelosi walking through a salon with no mask was what proved to me, and it should have to everyone else, that the mask wearing is a joke. I was also one of the first to buy a mask as soon as i heard, no one in my town anywhwre you went had them on. Whether you like trump or not he's a pretty straight up guy, he continued to not wear a mask for a reason and was bashed by the same people who laughed about wearing them to begin with. The narrative of everything and current affairs is all politcal and its so obvious.
Why do surgeons where masks then?
Becuase it's their job to.
Guess my reply got deleted. I had said, it depends on why they are wearing it and for what reason. To protect themselves from viruses they wear N95's
Weird i never got a reply from you. And yes correct
it prevent fluid
"We should have been wearing them for decades, or even centuries in the past. Because it would save lives. Your argument doesn't explain what's so special about corvid-19".I love you for that sentence.
"For the record im a sceptic but if it helps stop some little old lady from panicking when I clear my throat in a shop I'm happy to go along with it"I love you for that sentence.P. S.: How can I delete my other reply with the wrong quote?
Wrong Quote. Can someone delet the reply starting with "We should have..."
I wondered why you quoted last one. Just ignore it, I don't think you can delete
Did they post a video of someone vaping with various masks on, but never without a mask?
@goaded no but it might have been the same person I don't know.
Exactly. The CDC be full of shit sometimes. They say one thing. Then say another. Masks aren't going to protect us because they aren't 100%. It'd be nice yes, but its better to be realistic instead.
Nothing is 100%. But like birth control, masks protect you from unwanted fluids.
I know that they aren't 100% effective. But still if they are only 50% effective it makes a big deal. If without a mask an infected person would infect 1.5 others in average, and the mask was 50% effective, they would only infect 0.75% in average. If the number is above 1, the spread of the disease grows and grows. If it is below one, it will eventually die out.Thanks for wearing one and good for not relying on them. I wear masks and still keep my distance to others if possible.
If you expect to be given respect, you must earn it. There is no honor in using tropes like that to make a cheap political point. Also try proof reading before you click, it helps catch miss spelled words. Mr hoppertopperpopperchopper.. lol
@Girther10 all i read was "BLAH BLAH BLAH NONSENSE NONSENSE" ... oh hang on LAAWWWLLLLSorry just trying to pretend to talk like the right wing people today with my posts, clearly working as intended
@Girther10 oooo could you enlighten me as to what i misspelled too? I can't see it at the moment, but sure its right in front of my eyes
I suppose “whinge “ is a new word, oh ye master of words no one heard of right? which apparently, is almost exactly spelled and means the same as “whine” - ? Right? Mr hopper Stopper?
And just bc you don’t comprehend the notion of honor or respect doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
That’s the problem with kids these days, their being taught by Bart Simpsons teacher... “blah blah blah is the only word you can read...
I guess you are not well known for thinking on your feet, or how to avoid knee jerk replies...
@Girther10 you are like three years older than me dude... if your age is correct. You never heard of whinge? maybe you are just 17 not 37 then. Sorry
Most of the ones not wearing a mask are just too dumb to understand the explanations that are all over the place.
I hope your not describing your family and friends? Those are the only people you’d be likely to know those things abojt. Did they give you permission to talk about them in public like this?
Look at this post from Thomas Talhelm:Look up "What-is-the-difference-between-an-FFP3-and-an-N95-mask-Which-one-is-better/answer/Thomas-Talhelm" at quora.This is about HEPA filters, but he has posted on other filter technologies as well. Just browse his posts.It's OK for me if you think masks are ONLY meant to dehumanize us. I can't force you to change your mind and I do not intend to force anyone. But maybe you shoule ask yourself the "what if" question. What if it's not about dehumanization and oppression, but really about protecting people.I ask myself the "what if" question many times. I asked myself "what if the mask issue is really about controlling me?". I answered to myself "As long as I am aware of the possibility and don't let me get controlled in more relevant aspects than mask wearing, I can take the risk. And even if some deep state guys want to use it for controlling me, it still will protect me and others from the virus".
Ok yes. What if? What if, years from now historians are sifting through the ash heap that used to be a shining beacon on a hill, trying to figure out how a once great nation was attacked from within by a bunch of entitled kids who hated theselves so much, they ignored their natural instincts to ask questions, and instead followed the loudest most violent among them and decided to go along just to get along? That swallowed the Chinese party line, and shortly took a kneel to their new masters, the communist party of China and the New Democratic socialist party in America who sold out liberty to doing the greater good, for no one. What if? Indeed.by the way, talking to me like a child after insulting the intelligence of half this nation is not the preferred way to win friends and influence enemies... lol
What if, a year from now, we are still walking around with these half faces, and everyone just shrugs because now we are used to being told that we are wrong if we go against to state message, cancel cultured Into poverty because we dared to ask questions like what scientific data justifies you forcing this class warfare on the working class, or what used tt be known as such... what if?See? Clever huh? We can what if ourselves into oblivion, it that’s not for me. I say what if we say 🖕🏼🖕🏼🖕🏼toBLM and you and the BLM overlords who would just as soon throw you under the bus- as look at you through their squinty red eyes- red from the non stop pyromania... laughing and mocking all the rich stupid white kids who took the bait.
What if we all looked at you and saw this, like in a dream, a prophetic dream... and were overwhelmed by the likelihood of it..
Funny how that works. You, the smart girl, def not a “tard” of any type, dutiful swallows everything eh hears and eager to kneel before lots of humans just because it looks fashionable, compared with o any /all Trump related “tards”, will definitely convince everyone that asking questions about the commands being given by the ruling elites is not allowed, only smart non tards do just as told, tards like you, apparently.
What happened to you? It seems like maybe you have the jitters over Trump, I dint know when, but you changed your tone noticeably, or is it just me?
@Girther10 I am a MODERATE now and see Both sides. lolxx
Trump makes himself look the idiot.
He sometimes Does. xx
Six months into the pandemic and you're still completely clueless about the most basic things. Just wow. Okay, I guess it's never too late to learn, so you can thank me afterwards.Many infected people are asymptomatic. They don't know they carry the virus. They spread just like symptomatic carriers. So what you say is complete nonsense. Masks lower the likeliness of carriers of the virus (sick or not) to spread it. The more people wear masks, the less the virus can spread. This is a very simple and basic fact. Is that really so hard to grasp? Here, maybe a short anymated video from MinutePhysics helps:https://youtu.be/Y47t9qLc9I4
If they're asymptomatic the mask still inst helping, masks are designed to catch water droplets from coughing and sneezing not actual viruses themselves. So again you are wrong. And yes you can thank me afterwards
Maybe watch the video, because I feel like you really need drawing to get it. Fucking fact-resistent, antisocial idiot. Go fuck yourself.Oh, and you're welcome! :)
Don't bother responding, I won't read anything you have to say anymore. :)
Every breath you take and exhale has water droplets. Not just sneezes.
The problem with Covid 19 is that you don't know if you are sick. The most infectious phase seems to be from about 1 or 2 days before you develop any symptoms until about 3-4 days after.That's why all of us should wear masks regardless of feeling sick or not.
Why do surgeons wear masks?
Depends on what mask they are wearing for what reason. They wear N95s for protection against viruses
No, they wear them to stop infections from spreading to their patients. Because even healthy doctors could be asymptomatic and still transmit viruses. So wear a fcking mask.
No thats incorrect. If the patient has a respiratory virus the surgeon would not don a cloth mask. So wear a fucking N95 or shut your dumb ass up
And it was de-politicized when we saw that the BLM protests didn't spread the virus and the mythos of the "selectively outraged left" was buried after the Stugis rally COVID-19 spike. Polls show that people on the left take the virus more seriously (at a political AND personal level) so it only makes sense that when they gather to protest, leftists are more likely to take measures to prevent the spread of the virus. And despite knit picked examples of people at BLM protests not wearing masks or photos taken at deceptive angles, the data shows that this concern did in fact prevent the virus from spreading. So that's why there isn't outrage over the BLM protests and there was anger about the re-opening of the economy; not because the BLM protesters were fighting for a cause the left agreed with but because they didn't spread the virus and re-opening the economy did. And masks aren't "proven" but nothing is when it comes to a pandemic caused by a novel disease; policies are based on what the evidence indicates is best at the time. Yes, it could be wrong but it's still the approach with the best track record of fighting pandemics so that's just a throw away statement on your part. Seriously, quit banging your head.
While the right is about individualistic snow flakery, the left is about rugged collectivism and that's why leftist gatherings don't spread the virus as much as right wing ones do.
@Ad_Quid_Orator Pretty sure Trumpians are an entire collective that thinks the same.
@Ad_Quid_Orator bullshit they didn’t. Get your lying ass out of here.
Looks like I triggered the libtard :)
@Ad_Quid_Orator you use words you don’t understand.
No, just ones your closed minded world view won't let you comprehend.
@Ad_Quid_Orator you’re right. I don’t understand why a grown man wants to wear a diaper on his face and think he’s helping.
Because your level of maturity is comparable to a toddler that hasn't been potty trained yet.
@Ad_Quid_Orator that was weak even for you.
Didn't have to be strong to counter your previous comment.
@Ad_Quid_Orator and yet it’s the best your oxygen deprived brain can come up with.
Yeah, because you can do anything except conjecture and resort to asinine talking points. Oh wait, you can't :)
@Ad_Quid_Orator you’re still typing nonsense? I refer to Fauci who says in the history of respiratory viruses, asymptomatic people have never been the drivers of pandemics, and even on the rare occasion they spread the disease, it’s usually in a weakened version. So if an asymptomatic person cannot spread the disease, there is no reason for anyone to wear a mask who has zero symptoms. But keep following the crowd. You’ve been made a fool of at this point, and i know that’s hard to admit so you’ll double down on it.
In the history of pandemics, no pathogen had an incubation time as long as COVID-19 so you're just taking what he said out of context to fit your narrative.
@Ad_Quid_Orator haha, bullshit. This virus acts like every respiratory virus prior to it. You’ve bought so much into the narrative you’ve lost touch with reality. imagine a virus so deadly you have to lie to people to convince people to be scared of it.
Except it has a mortality rate way higher than most and a longer incubation period hence the risk of transmission when asymptomatic is much greater:www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htmSo deadly that people have to lie to downplay the severity.
@Ad_Quid_Orator yeah, except it’s not way higher. Seriously, you can be a chickenshit all you want and hide in your house all you want. But us normal people have to get on with our lives. So enjoy your pedo shows on Netflix, put three masks and googles on your face and never interact with another human. The rest of us will go on living.
Yeah, we all have to go out and not worry about catching the virus because of mask mandates. Without them we'd all be bedridden hocking up blood stained loogies all day for weeks on end (trust me, it ain't fun) and even if you're going to complain about the over inflated death toll, what's not up for debate is the virus will incapacitate you for weeks on end (to give you some idea, ~40% of the people infected with coronavirus in the US still have it this late in). So if you think the lock-down hurt the economy imagine what kind of hit it will take when half the work force is too sick to work for weeks and 1/4 for months on end. And unlike the lock-down, the virus doesn't discriminate between essential and non-essential workers (you know food production, power generation, water sanitation, all the good stuff).The perspective that the lock-down saved lives at the expense of the economy is utter BS but not for the reason you fetishize in your libtard world view. It's wrong because the lock down saved lives AND the economy.
@Ad_Quid_Orator yeah, that’s why NYC has 3x the death rate of anywhere else in the world and has the strictest lockdowns and mask mandates.
" yeah, that’s why NYC has 3x the death rate of anywhere else in the world and has the strictest lockdowns and mask mandates. "NYC *had* a high death rate, in April and May, now it's been in single digits for the last month, and double digits since the beginning of June (in a state of 20 million). Because of their lockdowns and mask mandates.
@goaded HAS. And HAS because they shoved the sick into nursing homes. The death rate has gone down universally across the board regardless of lockdowns or not, and regardless of masks or not. It's the same peak and slope seen in all respiratory viruses. UK has seen a rise in cases since their mask mandates, for example.https://youtu.be/8UvFhIFzaac
No, why that happened is because it -has a high population density-is a center for international travel so it was hit before we learned how to better treat the virus.-it enacted stricter lock-down measures BECAUSE it was the hardest hit for the afforementioned reasons.This is a classic right wing reversal of cause and effect (kind of like how you hammer on about how the most violent and poverty ridden cities are Democrat run). It's like arguing that pesticides are actually causing agricultural pest infestations because areas that have the worst pest problems are also the area where most pesticides are used.
@Ad_Quid_Orator Other cities have higher population densities and lower covid death rates.
And they weren't hit as early when we didn't learn from experience when we didn't know how to treat the virus effectively.
@Ad_Quid_Orator you need to sit down after that spin.
Nah, it's too easy to unwind your web of lies.
@Ad_Quid_Orator No lies. The Dems in NY were directly responsible for their high death rate. This virus behaves like every other respiratory virus. Fauci acknowledged that masks didn't work, and that asymptomatic people are not the drivers of a pandemic, and it's rare for them to spread the disease. Areas who institute masks do not see a reduction in infections (see the UK), but I'm sure there's others. Therefore there's no reason to lock down and muzzle healthy people.What we do see is you lefties lying about BLM protests, we have tests that are way too sensitive, we have healthcare providers indicating covid deaths that may not be accurate because they're being paid extra. We have a scare-mongering media including false positives in their reporting and gloom and doom. We have people who have turned their fear into virtue - so they double down on their fear to feed their virtue.Then you gaslight and say I'm lying.
You do know it's September, right? This is about what is being done today, now, not six moths ago. Death rates, the number of people dying per day, go down when you have lockdowns. The virus has been stopped from spreading in New York, it is continuing to spread in other states, like the Dakotas, where half the total cases have occurred in the last month or so.I'm not watching the video, it's over half an hour long, and the graph showing stops in mid-August, and doesn't include the US. If it did (and you can see this for yourself at the following link), you'd see that the death rate right now in the US is more than ten times higher than in the UK.ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer"It's the same peak and slope seen in all respiratory viruses."Yes, and no. It's the common shape than happens during an epidemic, it grows exponentially to start with, then levels out and declines as it stops spreading so widely. The difference to other, milder, epidemics, is that waiting for it to do that on its own would have let millions die, so we artifically affected its spread with masks and lockdowns. If you remove the precautions that are slowing the spread, it will just start up again.
@goaded "millions would die" is based on faulty mathematical models. Not reality.
Weird... Spain requires masks and the Netherlands does not.
-That's just conjecture on your part.-There's a crucial difference in behavior: the incubation (asymptomatic) time is much longer.-Fauci said that before we had reliable data (but I think a mad max muzzle with gauze in front of it underneath wire mesh would be fitting for you).-That BLM protests didn't spread the disease while re-opening the economies did is a fact.-There are also cases of cornavirus deaths that were covered up (in people's minds there's a lot more money riding on COVID-19 being less serious than it actually is) and the difference between the 2020 death rate and the average death rate of previous years is greater than the deaths attributed to coronavirus so if anything, there is a net under-reporting of the deaths due to coronavirus.
@Ad_Quid_Orator 1 - Asymptomatic is not the same as pre-symptomatic. You're conflating the two... but neither spreads the disease2- if BLM protests did not spread covid, then it's a complete lie that covid is spread by close contact to other people and must be spread other ways. Therefore we can open up schools, businesses, etc.3- your claim that covid deaths are 'covered up' is pure speculation
1. They aren't mutually exclusive either and in the pre/asymptomatic cases the virus can be spread:www.advisory.com/.../asymptomatic2. There's also sharing surfaces (even if it isn't spread as often as previously thought by that method) which is going to be less common during protests.3. Actually there's evidence for it:
Clearly not as flawed as the models that said the numbers would be at most 60,000 or 100,000 in the US. And the pessimistic models were modelling if nothing was done to slow the disease, and we did things, so of course their numbers will be higher than actually happens.The US is a fifth of the way to a million already, at 600 deaths per million, and New York proves that the numbers can at least triple without the virus dying off on its own. There's already been nearly a million dead worldwide, and that's with most countries taking it seriously.
@goaded Christ, and here we are back to the beginning. The death rates in all countries have fallen dramatically because the virus (like ALL respiratory viruses) gets into a population, kills the weak and eldery and then fizzles out. We see it in every country. There's no country where the death rate is climbing. Especially in those who didn't lock down, they're also not seeing the cases rise.We have a casedemic right now, not a pandemic. The numbers and stats bear that out.
Yes, we're going round and round because you don't want to understand that the fall is due to mitigation, not the virus "fizzling out". Hospitals are also getting better at keeping people alive, because they've had six months and lots of practice."There's no country where the death rate is climbing."India. www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/" Weird... Spain requires masks and the Netherlands does not." (Followed by undated, unrelated image.)The Netherlands have been mandating masks on public transport since early May.
@goaded That's the only place they mandate masks. The fall is due to the natural pattern of viruses. That's why it looks like every other pattern of every other virus where there wasn't "mitigation".The image is very related. It's the latest 15 day case chart. Spain has masks and more cases. Sweden has no masks and isn't on the list. So using your same simpleton logic - masks cause coronavirus.
Simpleton logic is comparing two very different countries, with very different cultures, and saying the only thing that can possibly have affected infection rates is masks. Not to mention ignoring dozens of other countries in your search for something, anything, to back up your claims.The Netherlands have opted for social distancing, everywhere, and masks in public transport. In Germany, masks are required for public transport and shops, and have a fraction of the Netherland's daily new cases per capita.
@goaded As simple as "wearing masks reduces infections".
"As simple as "wearing masks reduces infections". "I'd say "wearing masks helps reduce infections", but, yes, it is pretty much that simple.
Again you're taking what he said out of context (which is why the video was less than a minute long).https://www.eatthis.com/fauci-worried-cdc-testing/
@Ad_Quid_Orator testing has nothing to do with it. He said it crystal clear. asymptomatic people are not drivers of pandemics and rarely (if ever) transmit the disease.
It's "crystal clear" that he was talking about past pandemics but in the link I posted he stated that asymptomatic people can spread the virus. Here's some advice: if a clip showing someone talking about a politically charged topic is less than a minute long, that's a red flag that the person who posted it took what was said out of context.
@Ad_Quid_Orator I’ll wait for you to find the context that contradicts what he says.
It was in the link I posted.
@Ad_Quid_Orator no it wasn’t. I’ll wait.
www.thestreet.com/.../-fauci-not-rare-asymptomatic-spread-covid-19 Now are you going to stop misrepresenting what he said?
@Ad_Quid_Orator you’re as stupid as the ‘fact checkers’ who claim that a warning on a box of face masks that says it doesn’t prevent the spread of covid-19 doesn’t really mean what it says.So once again, you have Fauci talking out of both sides of his mouth depending on what political pressure is on him. and you hang your hat on an obvious weasel. He clearly said in that video clip that asymptomatic spread is rare. You found nothing in the same video where he contradicts that. Just him walking back previous comments because of ‘criticism’.
1:00 in the video:He stated that asymptomatic transmission is NOT a rare event. He stated that in past pandemics asymptomatic transmission was rare; not that it is in the current pandemic. You can't handle that because it destroys the narrative that you've been pushing.
@Ad_Quid_Orator " It's "crystal clear" that he was talking about past pandemics but in the link I posted he stated that asymptomatic people can spread the virus.Here's some advice: if a clip showing someone talking about a politically charged topic is less than a minute long, that's a red flag that the person who posted it took what was said out of context. "Indeed, that and failing to link to the original video.That clip was taken 44 minutes into this press briefing on January 28th. The context starts at about 42 minutes in, where they're talking about not having seen the data on asymptomatic transmission, yet. Over seven months ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6koHkBCoNQ
@goaded And then the WHO comes out and says asymptomatic people rarely spread. Till they got called out, too.
Called out by scientists and doctors who based their opinions on more complete data sets.
@Ad_Quid_Orator called out by politicians.
Who were informed by medical experts. Unlike Trump who ordered data sent to an organization run by his Sycophant instead of the CDC.
I don’t think it’s a hoax, but I would like to tell you with the government can get out of having you wear masks.The benefit the government would experience from a hoax, is to keep the citizens in fear. When citizens are afraid, they feel like they need their government more. Happy, content, engaged citizens are more likely to mess with the government, start reforms, reduce corruption, cleanup unneeded expenditures and positions. A populous free of worry, might actually go as far as to uproot the existing government and put something better in its place. Obviously the government doesn’t want that, so keeping citizen scared is a great idea and one that has been practiced over and over through many different administrations both on the left and the right.
Yesyesyes, you are! @Rockinmycurves.. serious. y, hats up with people running, jogging alone, outside, more than 50 feet distance at all times, yet these drone “Like idiots wear their damn masks.Or driving a car alone, wearing the mask.On and on, and on it goes... nobody knows quite where it goes...
@Girther10 yes for real, its highly dangerous in fact and many people believe shit blindly
Seems there’s strong consensus now. Even if there were questions before. Scientists are pretty adamant.
Yes it is proven. German study on the spread of Covid 19 in Jena, where masks were mandatory a few weeks before elsewhere, and comparable cities.
@Gerdchen that's a correlation fallacy, it does not show causation. there are plenty of other places where mask use was high but they are still seeing spikes
Thats all we need.
Yeah? Well... you’re right.