Then you can wait until you are married
@888theGreat Well I'm not, and have not. So if you have a problem with that your welcome to complain to management.
Who is management? Your Vagina? I guess I get on my knees and talk to it.
Well that one went over your head lol
I must admit you have that exotic sexy look going for you , but of course you are still wrong about this.
Which is based on your opinion which still doesn't make it a fact. Also not me in the photo.
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Well, if that's how you feel, no woman that doesn't get an abortion should have a right to the father's money and he should be free of any responsibility. Nor should they be given assistance from the government in any way.
If he signs the agreement before birth to forfeit all rights and privileges, that’s fine.
I think Amy Barrett might end up having final decision.
By the way she should be on court in next 3 days
@888theGreat She won't overturn anything. She's a believer of let it stand ruling.
She’s not going to do anything and if she’s smart, she knows not to even try.
If the decision is against my will, then I should indeed not be obligated to take care of the child. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
But you can’t visit the child either.
Yeah that's fine. That's part of not having the cake and eat it too. If I'm not willing to take care of the child, then I shouldn't be in it's life either. But bye bye healthy family unit that is.
Well it depends. A family with an unwanted child by either partner isn’t going to be very happy either.
No child is unwanted... some parents just can’t rise to the occasion... I warned my ex if we had a kids we’re together until their 18 period.
So a father has no say in whether or not his child is killed? Pretty fucked up but as long as you apply that to child support, circumcision (which is inflicted upon male infants against their will and thus doesn't affect women so she doesn't get a say on it), and everything else that affects men you would be at the very least consistent (doubt that will be the case though).
Why the woman makes the final decision?
Vanilla, it’s a nice ideal to stay together but you have to keep in mind, a key to a child’s happiness is the parents happiness too. If parents have grown apart and are miserable together, there’s no sense in staying together. Also, you can’t force someone to stay with you so please be careful of the way you speak to a woman. You can’t demand her to stay with you. Hellion, I just said he should have an opinion but the woman gets the final say. I believe that mostly since either an abortion or birth is such an invasive process that affects her the most. What’s the other option when the two parties disagree? To force her to have an abortion or birth against her will. And That’s unacceptable.
Yes, you did say that and I stated does that hold true for women? That is do they get an opinion but men get the final say in matters that affect men?(the answer is no, you don't believe that because you are consistently hypocritical and that is my point). For example you said he shouldn't have to pay child support IF he signs away his rights before birth but that is an opinion you by your own reasoning don't get a say, if he wants to right off the child that is up to him (again, by your own reasoning).
Applying the same principles, that’s how it works the same way. A woman can’t abortion her child after it’s already born. If a man wants an abortion but she doesn’t, he should be able to make it clear how he does or doesn’t want to be involved during the same time limits.
Ash that’s not true. You can set expectations before the pregnancy... also don’t underestimate my ability to hold up the divorce in court. The problem is it’s soooo horrible to put down single moms these days... it used to be a bad thing to be a single mom... now it’s just accepted as normal... we went the wrong way... should have put criminal liability for the men not sticking around.People are fucking broken.. instead of wearing condoms and accepting responsibility we accept the mistakes and so people see no reason to try and prevent them... Honestly abortion should be illegal... your rights do not trump a child’s life... they don’t Trump my right to choose life for my child... you made the choice to have sex you made the choice to take the 1% chance of failed contraception you should deal with the consequences.I am super super against abortion. After the kids there what the parents want don’t matter it’s about him or her at that point. I’m prepared to take responsibility... your not. Who’s the adult
I definitely think divorce should be avoided if amicably possible, but sometimes it’s just not. Sometimes people change and grow apart. I've seen it happen and it’s happened to me too. I was once in a relationship in college that started in high school but that made so many drastic changes, there’s no way we could have stayed together. Thank goodness we never got married or had kids together. And I understand your feelings on abortion. You have the right to your opinion. But if you’re with a woman and she wants to have an abortion and you don’t, but you tell her she can’t have one because you don’t agree it should be legal, that’s going to be a very bad relationship that will have devastating consequences you might not be immediately aware of.
Oh I’m well aware. I don’t have the right to tell you yes or no and you shouldn’t have the right either... from a moral standpoint ide be more justified to shoot you in the head as a pregnant mother than you would be to abort a child. How can we as a society think that abortions even an option? To save the mother life okay 100%... under a rape day after a available... and with birth control and morning after there’s literally almost no chance to have a kid. Abortion is murder and if my wife was considering it there’s a very high chance I would lose it... would I go mad? Would I kill her in the heat of the moment? Prob not but ide def consider tying her ass up for a year if I could get away with it... See women don’t care. Simple proof. The mans opinion don’t matter. The child’s life don’t matter. All that matters is what she wants and nobody sees a problem with this?I cannot respect a woman that would consider abortion for anything less than life saving reasons... I’m still on the fence about deformities. Idc if people suffer but children and animals don’t understand or make the mistakes so why should they have to pay for them? For your rights? I can't respect that.
I think your solipsism is preventing you from understanding what a woman goes through in a lot of situations. You assume women dont care. And I things you’re wrong. You assume don’t think about or consider the things you mentioned but most of them do.
I wish I could find that lady holding a sign saying she’s proud of her multiple abortions and going for another one... I think these signs say enough about how women feel.
Well again, this is a male matter and you don't get a say in it. Also she can abandon that child (thanks to safe haven laws) without the fathers permission. She can also give that child up for adoption (with out the fathers permission). Meanwhile she can go through that entire process without ever notifying the father so your way wouldn't even work because she would simply not tell him (the laws always favor women because she has all the power and privilege and he has all of the responsibility.). So even that is inaccurate and thus my point stands.
Vanilla, those are obviously extremists. I think you know most women don’t think or feel in a way that is congruent to those images. Hellion, I do believe men should have the final say in situations that affect men more such as circumcision. There are plenty of men who walk away from their families and fail to pay child support (after having promised to be there for better or worse, mind you). Many of these men end up working low wage jobs and are barely keeping themselves well, let alone his kids, so child support is never pursued by the mother. I know that for my childhood, my dad didn’t always pay it for my sisters and I even though he could absolutely afford it but nothing happened to him as a result, because my mom didn’t pressure it. We did okay growing up anyway. (And now, I’ve come back in town and called on him to be there for me in ways he wasn’t before.) I don’t care about his money as much as I do time and effort.
@MzAsh no I do not. Looking at the laws and how they don’t allow a man literally any say... looking at the rate of abortion coupled with the complete ease of access to contraception leads me to believe women don’t care about the kids, the consequences, or the feelings men have about their babies being ended... to be fair this says a lot about men as well which there’s a simple fix for...Outlaw abortion. Argument 1. Women have the right over their bodies.Defense. But not over children’s lives.Argument 2. Women will go to back alleys and risk their health and well being.Defense. Okay and? You can’t be willing to take a life if your not willing to risk your own.Sure people be pissed. For decades. But if the consequences are real and the options are limited people would conduct themselves with purpose. Women might not give it up as easy anymore. Fact is if women didn’t have sex with so many men they wouldn’t need abortions often. Don’t matter what men do if women won’t give it up... it takes 2 stupid people to have an abortion... if even one of them is smart the pregnancy can be avoided.
@VanillaSalt To say "they don’t allow a man literally any say" is very disingenuous. Men are allowed to have a say. It's not illegal for a man to voice his opinion. I will agree that sexual education should be better and female sexual selection should be a hell of a lot more strict than it is if a woman is looking for a serious relationship. But that's another topic that also pisses men here off when I talk about it because most of the men here already think it's too difficult for them to get laid. They might have to lift a finger. If abortion was outlawed, I'd personally assist women in DIY at home but I'd make sure they do it in the safest way possible.
Having a say in the outcome and being allowed to have an opinion are two very different things.Hell yes it’s too difficult to get laid... why is that? Because women get laid by the hot soles of the world and ignore the better guys that will actually stay and help them. I wouldn’t mind putting forth so much effort if women were classy and worth it... but not a hoe. If women were more selecting men would have to invest more into them, it’s proven men’s attraction and loyalty isn’t upfront, it’s built up over time. The longer a man is with a women the more attacked he is and the less chance he will leave. Making the time vs profit for hooking up not worth it will promote men to find a relationship and stay to maintain sex. Women will be more happy men will be more happy and all will be right in the world blah blah blah. And one last thing on this... you withhold sex I show you what I have to bring to the table. That’s how dating works. Then if you like what I have we fuck get married and start a new life. Ide be poised if a woman didn’t put out with me putting serious investment into us but ide already be able to show what I got to give. I don’t want anyone to die but you don’t have the right to take a life... we need a societal shift.I would support a president who would outlaw abortion while enacting policies that promote safer sex practices, show the importance of nuclear and extended families, offer jobs for everyone, change the school systems to teach our youths about taxes or buying a home or other tasks that will actually be used in life... fixing our terrible prison systems that take fathers from their kids and wives...
VanillaSalt. ... Your on spot with your mention. Dont be distracted with all her up votes. Birds of a feather flock together.
@VanillaSalt What kind of say do you expect to have if the two of you disagree? The decision will be made one way or the other. And I firmly don't believe any individual's will or law should be above the one who carries the pregnancy.It should be difficult for men to get laid. It builds character and it builds better relationships. With that though, let's avoid slut shaming. We can encourage women to better qualify worthy men who respect her authority with her pregnancy and those who don't slut shame.
@Djaay I’m here because I know there’s a lot of them...@MzAsh we’re voting on the death of a child... I expect both to agree or a good reason to be proven why ones opinion shouldn’t be considered. What’s the major problem with being forced to carry your mistake for 9 months? Pain and suffering? Consequence of the choice you made... risk yo woman’s life? well that’s a damn good reason not to consider the mans view... finances tight? The man should be forced to support the woman while pregnant AND child support...And no I won’t avoid slut shaming. If people felt shame we wouldn’t be here. I’ll slut shame women and men all the same. Women’s sexual value is 100% the decision of men because without men you don’t have a future... if you sex up 50 men by time your 30 well what can I say... I’ve had 4. Your used up. You can no longer bond with me sexually anymore.
The rise of sex work proves no one cares about your opinion when you slut shame. And they shouldn’t.
VanillaSalt... MzAsh... The true answer isn't about which gender has higher privileges. GOD makes all decision final.Women or men who are disobedient will indeed take heed to his wrath. The epitome of this is God doesn't care whether or not you beilieve it or not , its still true whether or not you beilieve it or not. Heaven does have a junk yard ,( Hell ) ; and yes its still in buisness.
@Djaay ya ya lost me there...@MzAsh no the rise in sex work proves people need money right now... proves loss of shame... proves men are more willing to pay $300+ every encounter than give women as they are the time they want.
a female who talks sense and says something i can actually agree withvery rare!
MzAsh... lol all you wish , but that doesn't change any truth. I want to hear you're ultimate argument against the opposite gender that you grevience so much.
I don’t have grievances against men as a gender. I love them and have a wonder 13 year relationship with one now. I just believe when it comes to pregnancy and birth, men can have a say, but women should have the final say.
MzAsh... Men aren't supposed to even have thought about abortion. Gods words not ours. And women aren't supposed have a thought about it either , says God. Men are supposed to stand back and let God deal with the woman. That there is a truth beyond a truth.
@Djaay so basically anything natural that ur not tryna hold back was gods intention?so if im constipatated and need a shit and if i jus stand there n shit in my pants god made a decision for that to happen?u make no sense, and god doesn't exist, nothing is suppose to happen by a greater force, things jus happen cos we make them happen,and if we want to make it happen that a baby is aborted, then that choice was suppose to be made
I don't know or care about god... killing babies isn’t my thing
VanillaSalt. ... He probably doesn't want to know you or care about you either... since you deny him.
Alright, enough with the religious propaganda. You don’t speak for “God.”
If you look at the intended meaning of the concept of "god" in terms of religious writings, it most likely directly translates to a primitive concept of the larger society. So, in the end, yeah "god" or "society" will decide on the morals and actions taken during your life. Your afterlife will be a direct reflection of the life you lived; if you lived a good life and did what you could to make the world a better place you will be remembered as a good person. If you were a selfish fuckwit and made your entire world worse, you will be remembered as such. That most likely what religious texts are referring to when they speak of the supernatural be it deities or acts of gods.Before you get into this whole "Hurdur ReLiGoUs ZeAlOt bullshit", I'm apatheist buddhist. You don't get to discredit the opinions of other simply because you think yourself to be be progressive and ahead of the old ways of thinking because you have no fucking clue what you're talking about let alone what they were talking about considering you've never read or thought about what has been said. There's a reason that wisdom is built upon generation over generation and doesn't reset with each new birth.
Other people’s religious beliefs and moral concerns aren’t my business. Nor are they my concerns. Have them all you want, but I know when someone is abusing religion to bully and manipulate people into shame, guilt, submission, among other things and I’m not going to stand around and take that. If I want to to hear about it, I’ll ask. Until then, I have the right to block those who I believe are being manipulative or abusive, as I have repeatedly had to do with this guy djaay.
That's what I'm saying, religious beliefs are irrelevant here. The idea is to make a better society, you don't do that by absolving people of responsibility from their actions and decisions. You also don't do that by taking power away from those that have a valid say in a situation. You state that only one party has a right to validity, I say you're wrong.
Where did I say that?
Woman has the final answer were your words... in others if he super disagrees you support don’t care and will have final say... nope
@VanillaSalt I know right? They want equal rights only whenever it benefits them. Clearly, these 'ladies' are forgetting that it's not just their child they are making the decision about.
Would you rather have him have the final say if it comes down to a disagreement? For him to be able able to say, “no I don’t care what you say. You’re having the baby” or “nope you’re having the abortion.” No way.
No one's decision should be over the other if that decision can change one's life forever against their will. This is mostly with women deciding to keep the child against the father's will, which requires him to actively be part in the child's life or pay child support for years. If the woman chooses to abort against the father's will, that will have less of a direct impact on his (financial) life. He may have to cope with it on an emotional or mental level. If she has to abort against her will, then she will have to learn to cope with it. If truly needed, then a judge should have the final say since every situation is different and other factors will be kept in mind.
I think if a woman wants to keep the child against the fathers will, he should be given the chance to forfeit financial responsibility and fatherhood rights, responsibilities, and privileges if he makes that intention known before she gives birth.
If either side wants to save the child it should be saved:.. regardless which side and give the side an out... if both want to terminate then and ONLY then yes
Meh I disagree.
That’s because you don’t value a mans investment or contribution as much as a woman’s... shocker
When it comes to pregnancy or abortion, either procedure is much more physically invasive and impacting to the woman than the man. The physical responsibility of both is hers. Not his. That’s why she should have more authority in the decision.
She lost her authority when she chose to have unprotected sex.
That’s not for you to decide.
Neither is killing a baby
A fetus, yes. A born baby, no.
It will be comforting for me when I think of you as inhumane when I’m cutting you into pieces as well... maybe you should try and comprehend the feelings of others because one day someone is gonna catch you off guard because you thought they were less.I’m done with this conversation. Hurry and die and make the world a better place.
You’re acting like exactly the type of man women should avoid ever sleeping with.
@VanillaSalt what? ur stupid man, ur saying cutting her into pieces is jus as cruel is killing a fetus and both are inhumane?um no man, one is obviously way worse than the other, killing a fetus is like killing a flower, sure its alive, but its not conscious and feeling pain and thinking thoughts, its like killing nothingu can't say thats the same as killing her, you can’t make that comparison,killing a living human is obviously very bad,killing a fetus isn't bad at allif you think theyre both jus as bad u need to get a better working brain
It doesn’t take much to expose the true nature of some people on here. First came the slut shaming. Not acceptable. Then he actually had the mind to suggest a judge should make the decision. I’m. Absolutely not. You know damn well he’d think differently if it meant pushing an 8 lb baby out if his tiny pee hole. He’d never let anyone, let alone a woman or a judge tell him what to do. It’s ridiculous how people are. This is exactly the type of mentality and behavior women need to avoid at all costs.
@MzAsh First of all, a vagina hole is bigger than a peehole. It's funny how you try to frame people for having a mentality that should be "avoided at all cost" when you come up with unrealistic comparisons. Also, the judge suggestion is something that should be kept as a last resort if both parties can't come with a mutual agreement. We get it, you want to have a higher say when it comes to a child not just your own. What's the point in having an opinion if it holds no strength. Something we men don't agree with. Oh, the irony of avoiding certain mentalities...
The size of the hole means nothing. It’s the principle behind the idea of forcing a woman to give birth or have an abortion against her will is what I’m referring to, which he did advocate for under certain conditions. And that to me is not acceptable.
The principle is better suited with examples of "when the roles are reversed". Things like that. In any way, it's indeed cruel on a moral level to force a woman to have an abortion against her will. yet again, it's also cruel to trap the father into taking care of a child which he either doesn't want or can't take care of. It's only the agreement of stepping down as a caretaker officially that would make it seem fair. But then again, how many times does that occur? And is that an actual thing according to law?
Yes that’s why I think men should be given a chance to surrender his rights, responsibilities, and privileges as a father before the baby is born.
Down votes: either explain your down vote or go suck a goat's tit!
Very reasonable to me
@Agape93 Yeah but unfortunately I think you are in the minority on that.
That’s ok with me. I’m willing to compromise
I can absolutely agree with you.The legal system has failed too many men in the ways you listed.
Agreed. It needs to be restructured.
The whole system needs to be reconstructed.Men (just like women) aren't perfect. If we want to move forward we need to stop looking at problems as if they're "black and white" and look at them as they truly are... grey
So if the final say is to the woman, and it happens to be against the man's opinion, then he should not be obligated to take care of the child. And if you don't think this is fair, then you're a pathetic hypocrite.
Why? It is his baby too.
And he’s not carrying it, getting sick because of it, risking his health and life to carry it or birth it etc. He’s a sperm donor. His job is ultimately done when he cums, she does all the actual work in gestating and birthing the thing.
That’s what a lot of guys don’t seem to understand. They got the easy end of the stick and left us with the hard part, then think they’re entitled to say what we should be doing with our own bodies and reproductive choices. It’s absurd.
Our jobs end after we cum? No, they continue for many years taking care of it like the mother does. I know we don't have to give birth to the baby, but it's not just your baby. We are parents too. Having no say in if my child borns or not is harsh.
To the record I am pro choice.
No, nobody is a parent until they have that child. A parent to be is not the same thing. You are not taking care of it during its entire gestation, a full 9 months. You’re not risking your life or your health. So yes, until that kid is born, your job ends when you cum and OUR job begins, the pain and risk for US begins, not you. You get to have your opinion, but you do not get the final say. If you think you have or should have the right to say what she does with her body and reproductive choices, then you are not pro choice.
I do think that you should have the right to abort. To force a woman to have a baby and enduring a pregnancy for a child she does not want it's inhumane. Also forcing her to have an abortion because the man does not want to be a father, again is horrible. So yes I am pro choice. Because it's your body.But I think men should have a say in what role they want in the child's life. In my country a man can renounce every parental right and duty. To me thats a final word men should have the right to.
Ok good, thank you for that clarification on your stances. And I agree. If a man wants to absolve himself of it, he should be able to do so and I’m glad your country allows it
I still think that it must be harsh for a man to have his child aborted when he wants to be a father. But I is still your body.
You’re welcome to your opinion, and I do thank you for clarifying your stances. I misunderstood heavily and i apologize for that
It's fine I wasn't very coherent in the beginning to be honest. I see you around and funny enough I usually I tend to agree with your stances.
Agreed honestly. :) I have no ill feelings about you, and I hope I didn’t convey otherwise.
Not at all. And no need to say sorry either you were not rude, not even close. It's perfectly normal that two people don't have a similar opinion on a random topic. I know that many people here can't have a civil conversation with someone who doesn't agree with them, and I don't have you as one of them.
I’m glad to hear that. As I tell me friends on here, we don’t need to agree on everything to be friends. Hell, older and wiser and I disagree greatly on many things, I greatly enjoy talking to him. Same with anyone else willing to be civil :) I always appreciate it.
I love to talk and discuss things! I always learn a thing or two, if nothing else I get a different perspective about a certain topic. I know some topics are sensible and people get way to worked up defending their views, but I see it here all the time being taken as a war. It's an exaggeration. You are usually simple and direct with your opinions I like that. But I don't think I had ever talked with you like this before.
Agreed. We should do this again sometime
* Retrospective contraception
Then he would also know , he is the 100th guy that has been told that.
@888theGreat I’m a virgin but go on believing that if it makes you feel better.
Our body our choice as well. Guess you're automatically a great parent cause you will aquire a abortion if desired ! Single mothers without child support... ummmmmm. Wonder why !
Justice Barrett will take care of things for me
Wrong she has stated that she will not do anything to abortion try again
until a case comes before her sweet heart
So she’s a liar?
No she said she herself can't change things , but if someone brings a case up about it , then something could happen. Like someone sues over an abortion matter and it gets appealed to Supreme Court.
If the decision is against my will, then I should not be obligated to take care of the child. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
What are the signs of a narcissistic woman?SymptomsHave an exaggerated sense of self-importance. Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration. Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it. . Be preoccupied with fantasies (like an unborn baby not deserving to live)