Find a traditional martial arts dojo and become a dedicated student.My choice is Shotokan karate.We train to kill an assailant the first time that we hit them.No firearm required, in most situations.
Several have comments about innocent people getting killed in this post, no if you break into my house you are not innocent, you are guilty, and I am going to sue your family for the cost to repair my door or however, you broke in, not to mention the cleanup, stained floor, walls, etc
@bulltaker Right!!! Sadly we live in a society that has more sympathy for criminals than hardworking, law abiding citizens
@Brainsbeforebeauty Protecting children or wife and family! If I am protecting my family, I know how to use a pencil, to kill, yeah, like John Wick, so does that mean we need to ban pencils too?Some idiots post insanely stupid shit on here!
If you have a gun... Never get in a fistfight... Your gun can be used against you. When you carry a gun the only fight you can have is a gunfight. And no one wins a gunfight...
So if I am minding my own business eating at an outdoor table at a cafe and some big muscle dude comes up and punches me in the face, why should I be responsible to play his game and "box (my) way out of that, win, lose, or draw..."? He should just simply lose, and his welfare should not be my main concern. My main concern is to be safe while eating my lunch."Basically, don’t bring a gun to a fistfight." If he attacks me in the scenario above, should i tell him hold on buddy i have to go home and put my gun away and then we can resume? LOL. I mean either you carry a gun with you or you don't, Period! And your quote is wrong, this should be to all attackers, don't bring a fist to a gun fight. Seeing as they are the ones who decide when and where the fight is, they should be responsible for being adequately prepared. They must be dumb to not be.Lastly, "And ideally, nobody should relish shooting anyone else." if its done in legit self defense why the fuck does it matter what they were thinking? ie you come into my house at night breaking the window open and you have a baseball bat, why does it matter if I enjoyed or didn't enjoy shooting the home intruder?I think you also misunderstand why people seem like they would enjoy it. They enjoy the idea of being prepared for such a situation. I don't really want to shoot someone, however I enjoy the idea of being prepared and following through in a tough situation. I would be proud asf to be able to defend myself, after all the training and preparation I went through. Wouldn't you be proud if you practiced an instrument and then after years of prep you got an award?
@bamesjond0069 I would never be proud of killing another human being. I would always have regrets and wish there could have been a better way. Yes there are scenarios were killing someone is your only choice. But I know of no sane human that wants to kill another. Ask any soldier involved in a war or any cop involved in a shooting.
@b5fan but ask any soldier or police if they are proud to be a soldier or police. They are. And thats my point. Im not glad to shoot someone but im proud to be a capable protector.
@bamesjond0069 They are, but they are proudest of ending the war and not having to kill again or protecting someone without any injuries. Soldiers fight to establish a just order, and police officers fight to maintain that order. Order without bloodshed is the goal in both instances.
@b5fan sure but realistically they need to prepare for violence. Police compete for marksmanship awards and such. Of course they will be proud of their abilities. Military are proud to make it to elite units which require they have above average combat effectiveness among other things. They are proud to have better killing abilities. But again thats my point. They are proud to be prepared and capable of combat. Not to kill people. But to someone who doesn't know shit about shit it may appear to be the same thing. Its not.Im proud asf on my quick draw times as well as my hand to hand combat. If i have to actually fight someone and i win. Ill be happy and proud that i was prepared, not really happy if i kill someone.
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You seem to know very little about our laws, you can't just immediately shoot someone for stepping on your property alone, that would be murder in the second degree if they die and aggravated assault if they live, either would yield about 20 years in prison, which is 2 years more than you give people for felony murder in the UK, but I digress. Your view is completely backwards as you can't believe in self defense and not believe in gun rights as gun rights are the best way to defend one's self against criminals and the only way to do it against armed criminals and has a success rate literally over 99% compared to 2% with tasers. Gun violence stats are also skewed because they include justified cases of self defense, justified police shootings, and in a lot of cases suicides are lumped in their as well but we quickly call them on it when they do. Guns are used to save far more lives than take, an estimated 500,000-3,000,000 American lives are saved every year through the defensive use of firearms compared to just 2,000 homicides annually.
So your telling me you cannot even shoot a home invader. Then yup i am 100% ageist it what's the point in a gun you cannot even use to protect your home which i thought was kinda the whole point of protectng your land and property but i guess not. Problem with america is that they think they need guns, england we don't even think about guns most of us have probably never even seen one IRL. American's they see them everywhere. Funny when one country feels the need to have something to protect them and another country has people who never think that. Shows which has the worse society of the two i think.But don't matter america screwed themselves over if they want to get rid of guns now they can't it's too estisblished. Kinda like banning alcohol wouldn't work.
No, you can use a gun to defend your home, you just need to be in a situation where you reasonably fear for your life. If someone is trying to kick my door in and comes in with a gun, I can shoot him. If I see someone walking by on my property, I can't shoot them because they aren't a threat at all. UK imprisons people for defending themselves and doesn't allow people the right nor ability to defend themselves at all, that to me shows which has the worse society and makes me even more thankful that the colonials shot at the Brits rather than join them.
That's what i meant by guy breaking into your house smh obviously. And no were allowed to defend are selves. Just we don't need guns for that nor does anyone even think about needing them... Unlike a society that seems obsessed with them.
actually many european countries have more mass shootings per capita. its just america has louder www.investors.com/.../media
Lol, when was the last school shooting again? Not being allowed to defend your life and property is just hazard of living in the UK. Guess women don't really care because they just scream for the nearest man to deal with it.
@Celtero 24th November 2020. Henderson Middle School NC. A 13 year old boy fired at an unarmed 12 year old girl. There have been 66 reported incidences of weapons being fired in schools in the US in 2020. So tell me again why that makes you laugh out loud? In the UK we don't have a problem with gun crime of that magnitude because we don't have guns and we have gun control laws that keep people safe.
You'll wish you had a gun if a crazy person broke into your house and killed your partner and left you in the hospital.
Only reason school shooting happens is because of a lack of gun safety of individuals.
And how many 13 year old children are fully versed in gun safety?
you just changed your argument, big goalpost movea school shooting is not a gun going off at school
Ah, that's right. People take school shootings literally. A man shoots a gun in a school parking lot in the middle of night during summer and it's a school shooting. Pretty funny considering nobody seems to have been injured in the instance you're talking about. You know guns are heavily politicized when you can pull up the last "school shooting" but couldn't tell me the last time a kid brought a knife to school.
10 school shootings in 2020 with 8 deaths and 12 injured out of 320,000,000 people? Wow, that's so many
GTFO the country then
Countries that don't allow people to defend themselves against vicious criminals that exist everywhere seems far more primitive to me.
I think that it makes a difference to 'not allow' self protection versus having the population running around like Wild-West gunslingers. But if that's one's preference, then : ''Yee-Haaaaaah"
They have a very different objective than civilans, police have to engage with the criminals deliberately and stop them, civilans are simply trying to defend themselves. So if someone started kicking my door and when he comes in, I shoot him with a 32 and he runs off (cases like this happen hundreds of thousands of times every year in the US) that's a success because I defended myself and my family and he's probably not going to come back, the fate that awaits him is irrelevant to me after he runs. However that would be a failure for law enforcement because they have to cuff him and take him to jail, so while I'd just stay back and let him run, police have to go after him and stop him.
You're talking a specific example of home invasion.Lets say you're in a super market and someone starts to hold up the place with a knife. Are you justified to shoot him claiming self defence if he's not specifically charging you? There have been a couple of high profile cases where individuals claiming to be protecting their neighbourhoods have approached unarmed people in the street and the situation has escalated and resulted in fatal shootings, the culprits using stand your ground as a defence. Are they justified?
If I feel that me or someone else is in imminent danger of serious bodily harm or death, I'm justified to shoot them. In that instance, I'd draw and hold him at gun point. Whether or not they're justified is decided on a case by case basis, it's actually extremely rare for someone to unjustly kill someone else and then claim self defense as they'll just take a plea deal instead rather than trying to make a claim that won't hold up in court and getting the max sentence.
You should really do your research and look at Mexico, Brazil, El Salvador, and the UK where people have no right to guns or self defense and thus the only people who have them are criminals although I'm thankful to see people in Brazil who have had it with that crap and are getting guns to defend themselves anyways. Here's a surprise, it's easy to get weapons anywhere in the world if you break the law, we're the only country that allows people to get them legally and use them against criminals who are trying to kill them.
I have done my research. 3% of homicides in the UK are gun-related. 73% of homicides in the US are gun-related. In 2019, the US had over 350 mass shootings. In the same year, the UK had zero.Mexico, El Salvador, and brazil do not regulate their weapons and criminal organizations run most of the nation. Because they don't have government regulation of weapons, they have the same problems that America does in terms of gun violence.It's actually not easy to break the law when it comes to heavily regulated items, such as guns where the accounted for from the moment of construction, to each exchange of hands, kept strictly in the hands of police and military where they are counted and recounted almost every day, behind locked doors. The military seldom loses their equipment.And, as an argument, that's not a very good one, even if we ignore how factually wrong it is. That would be like saying "It's easy for a dog to kill a cat if it just doesn't listen, so tie the cat up and put in front of the dog." That some terrible logic. If you honestly believe it's easy (which it isn't in every other country) then you shouldn't make it easier.You can't kill someone with a gun that doesn't exist. Plain and simple.
So how are you going to erase 400,000,000 guns from a country? And it seems to me that your issue is only with "gun" crime but not with other crimes and the ones that will keep happening and in much larger frequencies when civilians are no longer able to stay one level above criminals by arming themselves. And that 350 number is from everytown, which is a propaganda outlet that seeks to confiscate guns and brainwash kids by including negligent discharges and calling them "mass shootings" to sounds scary and decieve them. The real number is much lower and rifles of any kind are used in less than 1% of all homicides in the US and that number has remained steady for over a decade.
people have a sacred right to defend themselves no matter what, even if it sometimes kills innocent people the right to self defence is more important than human life itself. because its not about defending life. its about defending freedom
Your claims are as baseless as they are completely backwards from reality.
Your nonstop questions about guns is scary. I bet you fantasize about being the hero and killing soneone. You're the type who walks around with finger on trigger praying for an excuse to be the big man.
All men fantasize about being the hero and if necessary killing the bad guys. That's part of being a man.
They'll happily point a gun at kids stealing sweets but if a real robber came in they'd just piss themselves and cry
If you're a girl maybe. The problem with the feminine centric society we've created is that women think they can do anything. They don't realise men are the pillars of that society and can and do rise to face adversity in a way women cannot physically or mentally.
@007kingifrit So which one of your beloved family member would you offer up as the innocent who has to pay with their life?
@UCrayCray the question is inherently flawed as it implies we know in advance who will die when. we don'tbut we know life will be worse without freedom to the point where death is preferable. for everyone.
@007kingifrit There is no flaw. Innocent people will die in this quest for the absolute right to protect yourself. The innocent people in your family are just as vulnerable as anybody else. I’m just curious which of their lives do you see as less important then your need to defend yourself. Bring it home when you talk about “even if it sometimes kills innocent people the right to self defence is more important than human life itself.”
@UCrayCray innocent people MUST die in every system. every action you take in life hurts innocent people. its a basic law of the universe called entropy every action you take destroys more than it creates. so worrying about every innocent life is not how adults think
@007kingifrit So you are saying if one of your family members got shot and killed by someone who mistakenly thought they were in danger, “ooops” would be enough for you, and you’d be okay with it because “it sometimes kills innocent people?”
@UCrayCray i certainly wouldn't want to change our way of life because of a dead family member. what kind of pussy would do thatalso if you need to resort to the most unlikely scenario to engage in an emotioanl argument... your point is probably stupid
what if it was an armed 14 year old "shoplifting" inside your house?
@iFarted shoplifting wasn't the topic, breaking into someones house was, 14 yr old or 80yr old, the moment you break in you chose to die.
Only innocent people who are unprepared will die in that quest, armed civilians literally win over 99% of the time against armed assailants.
@007kingifrit I’m just curious if you think the death of your most loved family member is a reasonable price to pay for your right to defend yourself. It’s a pretty straightforward question. Not sure why you are having such a difficulty with it.
@UCrayCray i literally already answered you, yes i would let them die
@bulltaker I said "shoplifting" because that's what op said...
Then show me a case where that happened, because I've never seen a civilian shoot a criminal who wasn't asking for it. With the only exception being in Denver this year when a lefty shot a man for spraying and slapping him, but even in that case, he was attacking him. The solution there is simply don't let democrats have guns
That's a case right there
A case where a lefty who didn't deserve to have a gun because he is against others having guns and he's in jail pending charges for murder.
A guy who took the law into his own hands and unjustly killed someone
I'm not anti gun either, fun to shoot and there are legit cases for self protection, but I've been around enough yanks to see not all of you are screwed on straight
The fact that you're even using the term "yanks" shows that you aren't screwed on straight at all, but I digress. If you did any research, you'd know that LTC holders are by a very wide margin the most law abiding group in the country
Hence why I said yes and no
You know, like people can actually print guns now... I don't know how reliable but I'm sure enough for the people who are so afraid of these things. And explosives are easy to make -- horrible things like nail bombs. Information is out there. We'll have to get used to it as I see it.
Everyone who acknowledges that deadly force encounters aren't games and it's about survival as such it's wise to use the best tool available to you to ensure your survival, which is undeniably a gun.
that's actually untrue. defensive gun use to prevent a felony is 150k to 4 million uses per year
@slatyb So because some that have mental issues, and commit suicide, does that mean that EVERYONE should be disarmed, and unable to defend themselves, because these FEW didn't get the help they needed?Every death is sad, and unfortunate, but GET REAL! Tens of thousands are saved, just HAVING A GUN, and never shooting it!
@JackSmy tens of thousands are saved? And somehow the US has literally a hundred more gun deaths than other developed nations with strict gun control.
A hundred TIMES more gun deaths. You can argue that people should be able to have guns, but you can’t argue that it makes us safer.
Can you do math? 500,000-3,000,000 lives saved through the defensive use of firearms every year in the US compared to 20,000 (surprisingly a massive drop from the 36,000 last year) suicides this year.
That's just an unsupported claim, basically a gun lover's fantasy. It's absurd to imagine that there would be half a million murders in this country if guns were highly regulated and hard to obtain. Firearms are tightly controlled in many developed countries and their homicide rate by any means is a tiny fraction of the homicide rate in the US. Mass shootings essentially never happen.
alright, here are the sources Guns are used defensively 100k to 2.5 million times per year. Even the smallest measure is 3x the gun casualties per yearhttps://www.nap.edu/read/10881/chapter/7#112so let's start with the number 2 million crimes are prevented by a firearm each year; 5,279 times per day. There are about 300,000 gun crimes per year and 13,000 of those are homicides we can say homicides are 4.3% of gun crime; now extrapolating that out to our other stat of defensive gun uses per day we find that 226 gun homicides are prevented per day (4.3% x 5,279)
@007kingifrit And how many of those incidents would occur if we had strict gun control like the UK?
counter factual questions like that can never be answered and don't matter because i just showed that guns are a net gain on American lifeyou're anti science and anti math
@007kingifrit And I showed that countries with strict gun control are much safer than the US.
no you did not, you cited nothing this entire conversation america is more free anyways and that's more important than safety
@007kingifrit That's called freedumb. There is more freedom in other countries like Canada.
nope you're just making up shit for cowards now. go live with the gay soviet union to the north if you don't like it here
also you said you provided evidence of something but you totally didn't. at no point in this conversation have you given evidence of your claims
@007kingifrit Firearm related deaths per 100,000 population:US 2017 - 12.21 total. Of those 4.46 were homicides, 7.32 were suicidesUK 2015 - 0.20 total, or 1.7% of the number of firearm deaths in the United Statesen.wikipedia.org/.../List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
wikipedia is NEVER a source
@007kingifrit A wingnut as expected, relying on "alternative" facts.
no really, you just can't use wikipedia as a source. i won't look at it. educated people do not use it as a source
@007kingifrit So you have better data? Let's see it.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htmAll firearm deaths Number of deaths: 39,740 Deaths per 100,000 population: 12.1
alright, its still not a measure of how many lives we save each year with defensive gun use. 150k to 4 million. and our increased freedom is worth the loss of any we do losemost of the countries you point to as having less deaths have unforgivable lacks of freedoms that will get worse as the bretton woods era ends
@007kingifrit I think I will choose their lack of freedom that includes health care for all over Americans freedumb where poor people die of treatable disease and handgun homicides.
Just FROM YOUR REFERENCE, 72,473 POISONING deaths!! DOUBLE the 'gun deaths'!! Are you just wanting to save lives, or are you some biased, and ignorant one AGAINST GUNS?67,000 Drug overdoses!! Motor Vehicle deaths, 37,455 from the PAGE YOU CITED!!Stop talking BS, and just come out and say you are against guns! You obviously are NOT AT ALL focused on saving lives!! Seems like you are a controlling Nazi, wanting to ban every gun, making up reasons, and not looking at the data!
alright, pick it. get out, of course universal healthcare depends on a certain demographic structure with more young people than old to pay taxes and the birth rates of Canada are declining so that will be gone in 30 years buuuuut hey go for it
Sorry, my last was directed at @slatyb and his nonsensical post!!
@007kingifrit Dude, you have been making good points, all along the way! Some wise person, though, once said, "Never argue with an idiot (@slatyb) as they bring you down, to their level, and win with experience in ignorance!"
@JackSmy So people are dying from other causes. My st poisoning deaths are suicdes. Still tens of thousands of easily preventable deaths from guns. The only purpose of most guns is homicide.
but i already demonstrated to you @slatyb that guns save more lives each year than they kill, and here in the SAME CONVERSATION you go back to your stupid talking points
@JackSmy oh i never thought you were talking to me sorry I shuda tagged him. He loves Canada so much why doesn't he move there
@007kingifrit So guns should be legal to protect us from other people with guns? That's just fingers in your ears "tell your facts to shut up" retarded. In the US we have 12 firearm deaths per 100,000 people, or a total of 40,000 deaths from firearms. In the UK they have 0.2. If we had the same rate as the UK, instead of almost 40,000 deaths we would have fewer that 700.
criminals will always have guns, and we should never diminish freedom just because you're a cowardstop being such a weak person
@007kingifrit So your position is "We can't do anything." But of course we can. It's unclear what the Supreme Court will or won't allow w. r. t. the Second Amendment. We can certainly ban the sort of weapons used in mass shooting incidents. Just sticking our head in the sand to placate the minority of gun nuts is silly and I expect those days will end soon.
less than 170 people die a year to mass shootings, 320 americans die a year to toasters. you want to ban toasters? of course you don't. your dislike of guns is not driven by data its driven by media manipulation
@007kingifrit Toasters and cars are useful.
guns are useful to, they fundamentally change the psychology of our leadership to be more freedom minded and less authoritarian, they are also lots of fun
@007kingifrit Hand grenades are fun too, but they are illegal. It's fun to make chemical explosives but that's also illegal.
technically it isn't you just need a class 4 destructive devices license. and the constitution uses the term "arms" which does include all military equipment so technically you should be able to have hand grenades, and why not?
@007kingifrit Sure, and surface to air missiles in case you need to take down an airliner. Maybe a really wealthy person should be allowed to own a nuclear weapon.
@007kingifrit Dude, stop wasting your time with this ignorant idiot!! You are NEVER going to change his opinion, because his head is soooooooo far up his ass, he can't breathe, and no oxygen to the brain results in stupid posts, as @slatyb has been making!He has NO CLUE about reality, and during the riots over George Floyd, this year, and Rodney King, in the early 1990s, the ONLY BUSINESSES NOT BURNED AND LOOTED, were THE ONES WITH OWNERS DEENDING THEM WITH GUNS!! Where were the Police? During the Floyd Riots, in Minneapolis, I CAN SAY, BEING THERE: THEY WERE HIDING LIKE COWARDS!!! The police ran away, and hid! Then, FINALLY, our IDIOT governor called in the Nation Guard, after two days of mayhem!!SCREW YOURSELF, @slatyb, you have no idea how NECESSARY those guns were, then!!
That'd be great if we lived in a perfect world. But we don't. And the more we pretend it is, the less we see the threat of ignoring that reality.
@Precipice That is very true.
that is a dangerous idealistic thing to want. you have lived through the most peaceful time in human history so your worldview is a little skewed. but the UK won't be peaceful forever
That's exactly why we shot at your Redcoats for years until we drove them out, you don't value self defense and are too naive to understand the concept of limited government
@007kingifrit not sure if I would say I’ve lived through the most peaceful time in human history - I don’t really turn a blind eye to everything that’s been going around the world, especially with the conflict the UK has been involved in. I’m not oblivious to the fact that there’s been ongoing worldwide conflict since I was literally born. My comment was simply based on the fact that we don’t use armed weapons here in the UK, and we seem to feel much safer here than most in the US. I can’t imagine what it would be like to send my kids to school knowing that someone could just enter the building with a gun in their hands. Obviously I recognise that we are two separate societies but this is how I see it.
@Rangers an individual wouldn’t need to carry a gun for self defence is the perpetrator wasn’t armed anyway. This is my argument.
the past 75 years have been the most peaceful in human history. the fact that you refer to the things going on in your lifetime as "conflicts" at all is naive. the real wars and violence are coming back
@007kingifrit I mean you are entitled to hold whatever opinion and so am I. If anything, that's quite offensive considering all the war and famine going around the world... and even the more recent pandemic. To each their own I guess! :)
what's happening in the world right now isn't war. but i fear you will see real war in your lifetime. you just don't have anything to compare it to
Wrong, almost every shooting is justified, over 98% in fact and when seconds count, the police are minutes away, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
Some people have valid reasons not to get vaccines such as pre existing conditions that makes the vaccine very dangerous. It's why my doctors didn't recommend the pneumonia vaccine for me because I have CF and it would put me at serious risk. And I'm armed as well
If you don't know what an anti-vaxxer is that's ok, just ask instead of making stupid assumptions.
only violence can stop violence. pacifists are the cause of all war
Isn't war violence?So violence causes all wars.
actually you have it backwardsa strong willingness to go to war is the only way to prevent war. the #1 cause of war is people who value peace too deeply. when you know the other side is ready and eager to slaughter and kill... you don't fuck with them
How else are you gonna stop an enraged drugged up guy whos 6'7?
@M1k3y SOD OFF!! From the UK, you don't know FUCK ALL about the US!Maybe I should comment on the stupidity of Brexit, knowing as much about that, as you know about guns in the US!In the places with the most RESTRICTIVE gun laws, murder, rape and robbery are the HIGHEST!
It took much more force than you would think