I think one can´t general assumption about them. Not wanting to be in a relationship doesn´t mean to be lonely it just means that they want to be in a relationship with a female because they don´t trust them. I can understand why guys do that, it´s not choice or a way I would go, but I understand why they do what they do. We live in a society where people like to call relationships to be one of the ultimate goals of life. Relationships are called to be love but at the end of the day many marriages are ending in divorces. Guys are going their own are giving up on women because they don´t understand females, they don´t want women want and are actually looking for. It´s pretty hard to not stop looking for a relationship if you always get rejected. Look truth in the eye, some guys are more interesting for women than others and everybody who´s single for a long time starts blame-shifting.
The way I see is, there are some people better at communication and socialisation and there are people less gifted in such things. Women are naturally more gifted in such things than men. Some guys are better and some are worse in this. Naturally speaking guys not being at communicating their feelings and their character are more likely to become incels or single all their life.
Not can they not say what they want but they also have a bad body language alltogether which turns girls off because want somebody who is also their for them and who can show empathy. That´s something guys shy and introverted guys either don´t know or understand because they see all the women tend to the lady´s man who might be a jerk switching like other people underwear but he´s still gets all the women because he has an open body language.
The problem shy guys also have is that they often are called "Nice-Guys" and those guys have a bad reputation for just wanting sex or being perverts. Something can be true but it´s nothing that´s only true about shy guys/ "Nice-Guys".
I feel sympathy for them because I was called an incel myself for pretty long time just because I wasn´t interested in dating through my school years and I´m a rather shy guy who openly admits being addicted to pornography in his youth.
I don´t think there is anything wrong about MGTOW unless they turn in somekind of terroristic groups or are looking for ways to harm other people. They should be allowed to do and think what they want about society and life.
I used to hate on them, but as I've gotten older- I understand. It's not for me as I love having women in my life, but you have to understand how hard some of these men have been burned in divorce. Are judicial system in a lot of states always seems to favor women when it comes to divorce. I've heard of women cheating, leaving, taking the kids and all their money. If a man says I'm not going to date women after that, then I actually understand. I'd most likely just date casually and do my own thing. I would describe it as protecting yourself emotionally and fiscally rather than being sexist. They aren't perpetuating harm onto you. They're just staying away from you romantically.
I'm sure it's easy for you to imagine that these men are just sexist, if you're a decent woman yourself. There are A LOT of nasty ass manipulative narcissistic women out there though. It's becoming more and more common place with progressive society messing with gender roles and allowing women to get 1000s of likes and DMs on a daily basis telling them how beautiful they are and how they have all these men that are willing to do anything for them. That tends to get to anyone's head. It did for me when I was bodybuilding. These types of women will discard of men like garbage even if they've had a multi-year relationship.
When I was working in law enforcement, we did get a lot of domestic disturbance calls. I was shocked when I saw the disproportional amount of female aggressors in contrast with men. When the woman is the domestic abuser, she tends to have control over the male emotionally. She knows that if she presses certain buttons, he'll collapse emotionally and lose his cool. He'll yell and scream, and then she'll play victim.
My girl works as a clinical psychologist and she see's these traits in younger women more and more. So while I surround myself with quality women and love the women in my life, others have been less fortunate. I have absolutely no moral dilemma if a man just wants to avoid women romantically if he's been burned.
I don't have a problem with the general premise of a man going his own way. The issue is that most of these men who identify as MGTOW fall under the same umbrella as redpillers, incels, and PUA's. They spent their entire existence obsessing over what women do and end up being misogynistic pricks. If they were really going their own way they would shut up and focus on fulfilling their lives in different less toxic ways
Like feminism, do your own think whatever makes you happy, just dont throw it in my face
I hope it IS NOT, like "Feminism for Men" as that would mean that "feminism" is some kind of ANGRY, opposite-gender HATING kind of thing!! I don't want to believe that!!!
From what I can understand, from these pathetic, D-Bags, is that they BLAME women, because they can't find someone to 'FCK'!!!
Like a Woman, a LADY, is some OBJECT, and SEX-toy for these, that probably cannot even get it up, without pills!!
They are an abomination, and shameful part of the male gender, as they are clueless, and blame women, because they are such losers, that no woman would want to be with them!!
@lovelyhoneybones And that is why I disagreed with that part of the post.
I have asked MANY "Feminists" to define the term, yet none has yet really been able!!
How do you imagine a 'Movement" or an "Ideal" to produce anything more than confusion, if those, that are part of that "Movement" cannot DEFINE what they are fighting for?
Why is this so hard to define?
As far as I'm concerned it's the new freedom of relationship or single choice. As much as we have gender identity, we have many types of different relationships as well. I don't always agree with them it terms of my choice per say but I simply know they exist for others as a choice. People have open relationships as a choice and that's just one part of relationship or single choices.
I personally think I'd rather be with one woman and have enough single women that I would be able to find one I could connect with
I don't consider myself part of it, but i sympathise with them. The date game for men these days is really bad, we are not allowed to have standards. For exemple:
Woman - i want a loyal; tall; fit; good income; with licence; own house; good in bed man that is willing to marry me and treat me like a queen.
This woman knows what she wants, that is empowering;
Man - i dont want to date a loyal girl that doesn't have a body count of +3 when she's only 20, neither overweight.
This man is sexist, and is oppressing women, misogynist.
Imma be honest with you, women ARE way more demanding than men, and men are growing sick of it.
I saw your reply to a girl that asked if income was an issue on dating, and you said ''only for marriage'' a guy would NEVER, say this ( or even be allowed to say this without getting a mob of women mad at him and calling him lazy ), you see what i mean? No matter what type of girl you or any girl are, you are too demanding, you allways expect your man to make more than you, this is why i get where this guys are comming from, because women get offended when guys say that the only thing they ( women ) have to offer is sex, but they never really respond with anything more than that, adding to the fact that most girls that are on their early 20's now tend to already be 3+ sexual partners, and the thing is, what are you really giving us then? Because, if you didn't knew, when you have sex with someone, you exchange body toxins with them that are similar to dopamine, what does it mean? This toxins make you more attracted to the person you're having sex with, this is the main reason why the divorce rates are higher than ever, because promiscuity levels are too high, and women tend to reply with '' i give love and companionship'', bull shit, you can't really have deep feelings for someone if you already had greater sexual quemistry with someone else, thats why the higher the body count, the less the girl will be attracted to the guy she's currently dating.
Good philosophy, albeit not designed to last (or rather it's not meant for the majority). It's more of a practical philosophy meant to deal with a problem, not so much be an all-encompassing creed. That said there are some historical similarities which are interesting.
"I still think the whole concept of being forever alone because of your own sexism is quite sad though."
The point is that it's because of *other's* sexism, but yeah. It's unfortunate. Some simply don't survive such problems, i. e suicide. So at least they're taking a decent approach to the problem here.
I haven't looked into enough to be particularly knowledgeable about it, but I think that it's kind of silly. If you don't like a certain type of women, find other women. That being said, it might be difficult depending on where they live, but to say you're given up on women is pretty silly. There are plenty of women out there that would fall within their preferences.
I respect the idea you are disposable focus on your life and let women on their own
but most of the so called mgtows are basically incels hiding in their basement playing videogames and blaming women for being loveless
A broken clock can be right twice a day, but that doesn't make it any less broken. MGTOW and Feminism are cancers. Even if some members have positive attributes they are traps. God designed men and women to work together and for a bond in marriage. These groups attack God's design and aren't consistent with Jesus' description of marriage.
I think it is good in a way because it brings to attention a lot of things guys are disadvantaged at compared to women. I notice these things in my life, so they definitely are there. Feminism is supposed to be the equality of sexes, but it seems like feminists want to be treated better than men in a lot of ways. MGTOW tries to balance this imbalance created by feminism.
I'm not a member of MGTOW though. I like girls.
You are correct in describing this crowd as a " bunch of sorry ass men being losers". They are incapable of dealing with females on a day-to-day basis so they retreat behind this pathetic defensive behaviour.
They have lots of fun hobbies?
I think it's another acronym for people to put in their Twitter bio. I don't buy what they're selling.
Well you're right about MGTOW being feminism for men. That's exactly what it is. And considering what feminism is today, do you blame men?
To a certain extent I don't because unfortuantley, a lot of women have issues with not being equal even though most females want to be treated equally. When it comes to child support and lying about men being rapist or sexually assaulting someone, that ruins innocent mens lives so I see why they would want to avoid those women. But why avoid all women though? Not all women want to harm men.
The issues you mentioned (child support, false rape accusations) are certainly serious issues but there are so many more important ones. And the problem is men's issues are just not taken seriously. Any time men talk about them they are essentially laughed at, called pathetic and told their issues are insignificant compared to what women face, so nothing happens to address them. When it comes to men's issues, men are truly treated as second class.
But regardless, I think the expectations placed on men in marriage and relationships and the risks they take when getting married now are no longer outweighed by the benefits they can expect from marriage / committed relationships. The dream pretty much every man had two or three generations of a happy marriage and a family is no longer a realistic dream for most men today.
All of those things combined have made men pretty bitter today, especially toward women. That is what MGTOW is about.
By the way, I am not MGTOW but I understand and support the motivations of those who are. I just think there is a better way than sinking to the same level as feminists in terms of sexism and hatred for the other sex. That's what both MGTOW and feminism are today. They are no different than Republican and Democrats in the sense that all they do is spread hate for the other side and take every opportunity they can to make them look bad. That's why Americans are so divided today, and why men and women are also deeply divided.
Where will that end? There has been so much damage done to gender relations that I don't know if it can ever be repaired. Feminism started that, and now MGTOW is doing the same thing. They both just continue to play off each other and the hatred, anger and division just escalates more and more every day. For that reason I don't support either movement. They both do far more harm than good.
I feel sorry for MGTOW, Red Pills and angry feminists. All it is is hate wrapped up to look like gift. Open the box though and you’ll find hate.
They've been around for years, they don't hurt anyone afaik, so I don't really give a fuck.
I find them funny, especially their obsession with women.
Not knowing what?
Incels for those avoiding stigma.
They are pathetic.
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