Thank you for the mho 😊
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also: i don't understand why they made virologists the experts on that field. that's like making a neuro sycientist the expert on social phenomena. it's not their level of expertise. epidemiologists and social scientists would be the experts here.
I hear what your saying the Media and how it manipulates the massive amount of people who fall for the paid for rhetoric. Pushing the narrative in the direction that whom ever has control wants it to go. I understand what you mean when you compare Covid 19 to things like the Flu SARS and MERS. Having been a Medic who worked in the ER and family practice I just want to say I agree with you on some points. I guess it just depends on what you mean by worse. I personally would rather have covid 19 vs MERS or SARS. Because your right its not as deadly as those two when you break down the ratio of deaths to infected. The only thing you might consider is that even though its not as deadly and its numbers on the surface are in line with a very bad flu season's death toll we have to understand why it is Dangerous. Its actually much more dangerous than all of those right now. The real reasons aside from the media creating a mass hysterical event is that in the begining we didn't fully understand what we were facing and the fact that it is highly contagious coupled with the fact that people that died didn't die immediately. In fact it spread so fast and since it wasn't as deadly as some of the others it burned through so many resources in the process. A lot of people rate the Danger of a pandemic on how deadly it is or how fast it kills and I understand why but people that get a illness and die fast or have a higher infection to death ratio is scary the fact that they do die means they aren't walking around infecting the masses because the real danger comes when we are out of supplies and have no room to treat people who have accidents heart attacks other illnesses etc... You think the standard of care was bad before imagine what its like right now with everyone spread thin overworked. I just hope we are better prepared to handle the next one because there will be another one.
@virtue2332 if we'd still go by the definition of "pandemic" from before 2012, this wouldn't even be a pandemic.i know it is a deadly disease and that we should especially protect the elderly from it, cause those are the ones that die to it. the number of people under 40 that died to it is a two figure number in my country...i understand that the "speed of the spread" is an aspect that makes a disease more dangerous but what i am critiquing is that we actually after over one year of that thing being around still do not have any comparable statistics. after a year, we still avoid distinguishing those that died "with" the disease from those that died "to" that disease. we have started taking PCR tests as proof for infection (which is bullshit as even the inventor of the PCR method says). We've gone as far as having people post mortum tested with pcr and then declared "pcr death" or people going to hospital for completely different things, having a positive pcr test and then being treated like covid19 patient even despite them having no symptoms of that whatsoever.i'm not saying this disease is to be ignored. but what i am saying is that this lockdown and legally enforced public mask wearing is completely overkill, which causes more deaths than covid.and you know we do have excess mortality globally... but at least in germany and most countries in Europe, the deaths of the annual flu wave (of which covid19 is a part), do not exceed previous years. meanwhile "older" people don't dare to go to hospitals anymore. we have 90% less preventative heart and cancer measures. people are dying due to the shit we're doing for covid. and it's more people dying because of the shit we do than because of covid...if we just had lived our lives as we always did without the extreme global media pandemic, we wouldn't even have noticed... like the flu wave in 2018, which was the worst in 30 years (even worse than the 2020 one in my country) but they only noticed in hindsight.
people post mortum being declared as covid death* i can't even begin to point out all the wrong shit that's going on. a lot of the stuff they said were straight up lies. for example the claim that you can be infectious without having any symptoms was a straight up lie. people still believe that stuff.
You bring up some good points. I believe it comes down to ineffective leadership and politics where I'm from in the US and the media not being held accountable for the damage they cause when they over sensationalized coverage for views or even worse when they do it push forward a specific political agenda under the guise of news. They should always remain neutral and focus on facts vs sensationalism we are all human and sometimes get it wrong but not taking responsibility makes it so much worse in the long run because it leaves us where a lot of us are now frustrated looking for the real answers. For me I guess it boils down to what I have actual training on. Being a military trained medic assigned to a nuclear biological chemical warfare team I can only speak from my perspective based on training I would assume is outdated now since it occurred from 95- 99 at a base i was stationed at in Japan. We trained on scenarios that were similar to what we experienced last year. The only difference we trained as if it was an actual attack. This was years ago and the threat was obviously serious enough that I was pulled away from my job as a medic in family practice and sent out to various places practice different scenarios. We had to be packed and ready for deployment at any time. Grab and go. You think mandatory face mask suck you should have seen the gear i had to wear.
Basically without getting to in depth the goal was to set up a designated safe zone that we could begin to collect intel and attempt to isolate or contain the threat. In that environment you work under an assume everyone is infected until they under go testing and mandatory isolation and can be upgraded to the clean zone. Given how strict and stringent the training was I imagine a lot of money and research was put into it. I understand this is a different scenario but what makes me nervous is when people say things like this whole thing is a hoax or not real and I know that's not what your saying but I hope people will understand that the threat is known its serious and real. People need to take a step back and do what we are doing communicating trying to educate ourselves and consider what we did and could have done better. We obviously can't just leave it in the hands of the media or politicians. I hope we all come out of this more aware of what's possible and use the info learned to be more educated and prepared for the next time because it will come I just hope its natural and not a deliberate attack but more importantly we should share information and work together vs listening to rhetoric and acting on impulse.
@virtue2332 first off, i wanna thank you for thank you for actually listening and discussing in a respectfull manner. the extreme hygiene shit you had to go through as a worker in that profession is understandable only up to a certain point. i'd say up to march 2020, when we basically knew that only elderly are dying from it and asymptomatic infection was not a thing. those extreme hygiene measures was actually what cause that caused a shortage of supplies and personell that made the situation even worse. plus the avoidance of actually obducting people prevented us from learning about the "actual" danger level... that's like shooting the health industry in the knee and then complaining that it's not running anymore. i mean the irrational fear trickeled down to medical doctors, who should have known better...and i absolutely agree with you. mers and sars were way more terrible diseases with way lower chances of survival. and i would claim that the infection rates mostly came from the extreme testing numbers, as many publications only now starting to critique that the extreme amount of testing skewed the infection numbers, when i was basically screaming bullshit since February last year.i do understand that infectious disease is a very real threat and by treating a "mediocre flu type disease" like the pest, we're actually desensitizing the population, which could cause way more deaths in case such a disease starts spreading.the questions and critique we are still trying to make aware of, is still largely ignored and defamed in the media. why? i don't know. i can just tell you this is happening. in fact i've seen many of the renowned experts lose their job and their social media accounts cancled... it's like we're living in global totalitarianism now.
there will be the next worse corona virus. what will we do then? can we possibly be more extreme in our behavior? we can't stay in lockdown forever. and the consequences of our actions of 2020 are not even showing yet. the financial chaos that will insue, will be devastating.
You are absolutely correct at some point we would all have to make a rational decision based on what we observe and hear from people we trust and respect. The old risk vs reward will be something we rely on more. We have to learn and understand that this is going to be different for a lot of people and that's ok. Most importantly we have to communicate like the evolved technologically advanced people we are. There is nothing worse than coming out of a situation without learning anything and being worse of than we were. People can blame leadership as I have but we let them get where they are. I appreciate all of your input as well Genericname85. Its nice to see someone who actually puts some thought into their replies vs spewing rhetoric they heard or saw somewhere. We need more people like you in leadership roles.
@virtue2332 thanks man. you know it's funny that i find typically medical people who mostly agree with me, even though i know some of what i say could be not 100% accurate. it's funny that it's mostly uneducated people or educated people from other branches that call me an idiot for my opinion on this without even considering what i said. just bunching me together with deniers and conspiracy theorists.i think that's probably cause not many people but those that work in that field get to see with their own eyes, how volatile life is specially in the elderly stages. people act as though life would never end. before we panic, we need to consider, that "died of old age" is never a sentence. and even professionals in the field are not untouched by biases they get from the media they consume. not trying to antagonize them. they are only humans. but we desparately need to take a step back, remember how science and actual research works and do our homework instead of continuing missinformation and irrational media panic spread by so called "experts".
"died of old age" is never a sentence that will be said in a death certificate***
Probably the fact that medical people have to leave their emotion at the curb and pay attention to real data instead of relying solely on what we are told. When. You step back a apply a little logic you see a bigger picture. Chat with you later.
@virtue2332 yeah. great conversation. thanks.
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. - Mike tyson
Agreed - it's remarkable how many people are either seemingly unaware or are in complete denial that we are simply animals crawling around on this big rock in space. Yes, we're quite intelligent, but that doesn't mean that we're completely separate and different in every way from all other creatures - we still have the same kinds of instincts and reproductive & survival motivations that all other creatures have, because if we didn't, we'd never have survived.Our big smart brains don't exempt us from having instinctual, biological drives and reactions - but so many like to pretend otherwise...
@MrOracle I guess we are so tensed and worried about life - not knowing how to derive pleasure from life anymore as survival is easy and when it comes to reproduction - most men just give up and aid themselves with other addictive substances. So we're left with what to do with our lives, where to find the meaning.
You should really move to a part of the world where they support the Marxism you so long for. You'd be much happier there, and I hear you get a free puppy on arrival.
Woah for real? Coool dude. I love puppies.
Don't forget KY Jelly mix for that ass fucking you're about to get and the communist country
IKR, just that statement alone is a proverbial ass fuking.
Nobody said anything about communism but aight
Money is world. Fuck close friends. They're moody AF. Work for money, you get money. But it's not same with people.
@Elsa143 I don't betray friends. But i sure as hell won't let go of the money 💵
Don't we have enough people already?
I still support it. This world is a horrible place.
Then stop eating food because you're also killing a plant or animal.
At the end of the day, you are by yourself because nobody cares about each other without an agenda.
That's not something people refuse to accept, once they think about it. It's kind of the same as saying "everybody dies alone".
Do you believe in karma?
That is actions and Consequences that is Karma itself
Yeah they are using and throwing away partners.
That’s not what I mean
And those ugly people want beautiful people.
But will get offended if rejected. They shamelessly want good looking partners.
Most people believe that Trump lost the election, inauguration is next week.
... his cult who drank his koolaid do not believe thanks to his lies
He doesn't have a cult, that's just leftwing propaganda.
Oh ok... if you say so, because regular citizens just raid the capital... makes sense.
Regular people don't riot, neither at the Capitol or across our country in the summer. Extremists are not cult members they are just people who can't think rationally.