I Am not afraid of discussing I am only afraid that there are too much dumbasses that don't want to fight cause they think they Just have to to wait to get our freedom back
You raise a valid point. But fight against what and with who? Each side has extremist groups if you want to actually physically fight. I'm more in favor of voting, though there is no satisfying third party, much less 4th or 5th. Also on what platform would you organize, logistics aside, start with simple recruitment, that wouldn't turn into Ruby Ridge or Waco before you get past 10 people.
I find the right just as guilty as the left there. Very few states are challenging these executive orders, or have legislators actively fighting these power grabs. They're complicit, yet you can't tell someone on the far right that. Like Florida's law against peaceable assembly. It sounds nice against the threat of violent mobs... but what happens if you are protesting for the wetlands, a historic society, or the right and suddenly find every member of your group slapped with felonies?
They are the right and the left, bot more the right and left hand coming together to crush us, with very few cogs in that machine making any moves to actually keep our freedoms. I don't blame them either. We're too dumb and simple to get together and do anything about it, why should they?
I don't, your profile says united states... Felons have the same voting rights as immigrants if that's what you're saying, none. At least in theory that's how it works, I know a felon who votes, so who knows.
I am not afraid to discuss politics, I just prefer not to speak about politics because I don't need the extra stress because I have enough of my own self-created stress on my own.
I'm not confused, just slowly learning about how the process is conducted, campaign law, how to set up for donations and what not. Also that the dynamic needed to run today is polarizing issues and running a smear on your opponent. Rather than stating what I am, I only need to state how I'm not him.
Hearing the brainwashed right wingers is a worry. They wave their Aussies flags even though the Liberals sell this country off and undermine workers pay and conditions.
Our kids will be working for wealthy foreigners for near nothing.
That gets me too. I have a voracious appetite for knowledge. With politics though, Fox says cities are burning, CNN says everything is peaceful, after searching for hours you find things are mostly peaceful (number of people compared to violent altercations) with violent exchanges, mostly from Antifa, or previous gang disputes taking advantage of the chaos.
It doesn't benefit either side or their ratings to talk about reality though... It upsets me that with so much data on the web, actual knowledge rather than opinions are so difficult to find. Also that policies are being shaped on both sides from a subjective reality. Hell, I don't even know if the "objective" reality is true anymore unless I'm willing to go investigate with my own two eyes.
Nowadays when searching for information we need to read and re-read, research and compare stories/articles because there's too much misleading and fake news going on.
Yeah, the right would have more credibility to me if they combated fake news with, well, news, rather than more fake news that simply appeals to their demographic. They do have some solid gems, but when they publish photoshopped photos and stuff as news while yelling at CNN for doing the same, yeah, good stuff... lol
Yeah, though that does get old when there are devices other than smartphones. What was it... Parlor or something that was the next outlet many conservatives moved to? They shut down on there simply because the apple store stopped carrying it. There are PCs and Androids. The boycott power of millions of people is a powerful force beyond a stock market price.
I get that, and think the pendulum will swing the other way with FB and Twitter, but why would it take waiting on Trump to set up a server and invite people to chat on it? IRC still exists, Google+, so so many digital platforms.
I agree. Folks shouldnāt be waiting on Trump to do things. We can all do our part though. I quit FB, Twitter, and have been using Duck Duck Go for sometime. I also recommend proton mail for email. Itās free and completely encrypted and never scanned for keywords like gmail. And for any text correspondence between friends and family I use Signal. Itās also encrypted and free and works off cell and wifi like Apple messaging. It also has built in message destruction if you wish. And then there are all the products I now refuse to buy if I know they are actively working against my political interests.
I'll check those apps out. Even if it was the left that twitter and FB were silencing, I can only get that censorship if your platform is used to recruit terrorists or something. They literally allow terrorists on their platforms to recruit, while kicking unpopular opinions.
I know! isn't that crazy? They silence conservatives they donāt agree with, but allow terrorist to organize on their platforms (Antifa, BLM, ISIS, etc)
Good on you man, what kind of venues do you find for that? I've found doing so has made me closer with some neighbors, estranged from some, and there's only one that I can actually verbally spar with who doesn't just shut down or buddy up assuming I share all their views.
I am the District 3 representative in Central NY, for the Democratic Party. Grew up in a Republican household, but when Nixon got elected I went Independent. When Reagan got elected I went Democrat.
Look up the local election board and contact them. Why did I get involved? After dodging land mines, mortar rounds, and small arms fire in Vietnam, after crawling through the Vietnamese jungle with Agent Orange, I knew the politicians had lied to me. I've worked ever since returning stateside with my local government, state government, and at the federal level to keep us out of war zones. Although I've obviously failed miserably, I CAN say our government can no longer draft young men and women into conscript.
Well, young men still have to register for the draft. With recruitment numbers vs. the need in the military right now, that's potentially a rough one. Retention rate there is only looking better when compared with most major city police departments after a federal consent decree.
I'm also sure my views would be much different if I had gotten drafted rather than enlisted. Especially into a war with that high of casualties and KIA. There's also only so much you can do to stop a war, or slow it. Most people really want to have a war take place, as long as they and theirs don't have to go into it. Movies and video games portray death so quick and clean, with protagonists who are unstoppable juggernauts. Not ambush after ambush, difference being which side has the initiative with lots of screaming and struggling until shock takes over.
I suppose that would be a difference in opinion we have. I think modern day less people would want war if we had compulsory service for two years. That is the minimum length of time for the GI bill and would also pay for everyone's school that puts into it.
If you have never been in a war zone, with people trying to kill you, small arms fire constantly around you, mortar shells exploding near you, land mines you have to avoid, all while trying to rescue a fellow Marine and return him to safety, then your opinion on war and its horrors just can't account for much in the eyes of those that have had to deal with it, day after day after day, even when we return home.
I was in the Corps, but a POG. My experience with people trying to kill me and small arms fire came later in Mexico and Central America. Mortars are pretty rare these days. RPGs, IEDs, and simple barricades to ambush are more common.
A piece of cinder block coming through a windshield is extremely effective in the wrong hands. Without a driver, there is no vehicle, and no need for anti-material rounds or copper penetrators. Have that happen once and abandon a vehicle to fire with an M-700, SKS or any other marksman rifle in unknown territory, oh boy, the pucker factor rises. Mercenaries don't get back-up.
Most people don't use landmines for one simple reason. You may get the enemy with them, but if there is a known mine-field, and you ignore politics, give it a few months, their forces will die stepping on spots they forgot they buried mines in. It's why you don't booby trap your house. In any existential threat scenario, you are the person most likely to be hit by fragmentation.
I've done more security work than I have military, so ignoring politics and just getting objectives achieved was a luxury I had afforded to me. If you're in the Corps, you have to do something about those bodies hanging from the overpass. If you're an independent contractor, fuck em.
I was a dual MoS, Coast Guard and Marine Corp, Search and Rescue specialist. In Vietnam, they were still using all of those. Thank you for your service.
Well, if you want to break it down the only things you really have to do are breath, eat, and drink. Life would be pretty boring within those parameters though. Also very short for our species...
Politics is starting to intrigue me because it is such an illusory construct, but holds so much power. At the same time that I want to learn more about it and different views, I am finding that many people are reluctant to talk about it.
Sometimes yes, sometime no. Many people go with the momentum. Our two party system creates an illusion that if you disagree with one point of one party, you must support the opposite, same with agreeing with one of their points.
It's bullshit, and so strange to me that the two party system continues to draw power, influence, and people that polarize more strongly on both sides. Strange how fast Gore's Green party got shot down, or the Tea party, which logically are the extreme side of right and left.
I don't discuss it because it's personal. It's as simple as that, my thoughts on politics are my own and nobody else's business. Honestly, I feel like it'd save people a lot of anguish if they felt the same way.
I've lived multiple lives, and seen the world from different points of view. Granted most of them were desperate and involved violence. It did make me realize how utterly ignorant I am about so many things, which helped a lot when I went to college (so many people get that paper and are geniuses!).
To be able to get through that barrier you have to realize your own limitations and confirmation biases. You won't change any minds, but you might open some up, yeah?
In what way? I can say someone I disagree with on a regular, @msc545 hasn't changed my mind on much, but has pointed out when what I thought were objective facts... were objectively wrong lol. I'd say that makes a difference. The worst we can do is view "the other side" as sub-human, because that makes it easier to kill in any situation that you do.
Do you just choose not to, or what is your outlet? I ask because soon I do want to start discussing and trying to get involved with politics on a broader scale. Beyond my neighborhood to region, and online.
That's when your career will end if your not afraid to discuss any topic, as a regular citizen I have no media coverage or fame to be hold over my head, that they can try to tarnish. You really need to think through your points before voicing them. I wouldn't get anywhere in politics, they wouldn't let me.
My career is in chemistry, which has already been wrecked under this administration. More likely to prevent me from forward progress in politics would be my very checkered past, which the more I've thought on it, the more it could be an asset. Better the devil you know. How many major political parties do you have in Sweden?
I think in the US a lot of the problem we have is buying into the two party narrative. It makes an "us vs them" narrative far too easy, when people need to work together or not at all on goals in a modern society. You can't have things both ways.
We have seven major right now but anyone can start their own party, you however need a minimum of 4% of the votes to get in. So it's not an easy path to start up a party. You can't run it alone, you need representation in all regions or you will just be regional party, or you can skip sweden and focus on getting into the eu parlament. Because it has its own election and selection process.
Iām Nit afraid and do everyday! I donāt like lots of idiots politics. I donāt care if they like me or mine. Im going to shove my ideas down their throats
... I'd hate to say it, but that might be a lot of the reason people don't want to talk about them. On that end not fear, but simply not arguing with an immovable object. Whether you're right or left, if you can't be open to the idea that you could be wrong, you can't debate. How else do you analyze your opponents positions if you don't even consider them?
You're a person too, if people aren't civil, you aren't civil either. Same goes for me, and every other human in civilization. It's not about either side silly. If you paint humanity with a broad brush, and you're a human too...
It isnāt a matter of being āsensitiveā. Itās a matter of being respectful to one another, and your initial reply shows that you are not capable of it. Have a wonderful day.
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Opinion
57Opinion
I Am not afraid of discussing I am only afraid that there are too much dumbasses that don't want to fight cause they think they Just have to to wait to get our freedom back
You raise a valid point. But fight against what and with who? Each side has extremist groups if you want to actually physically fight. I'm more in favor of voting, though there is no satisfying third party, much less 4th or 5th. Also on what platform would you organize, logistics aside, start with simple recruitment, that wouldn't turn into Ruby Ridge or Waco before you get past 10 people.
I find the right just as guilty as the left there. Very few states are challenging these executive orders, or have legislators actively fighting these power grabs. They're complicit, yet you can't tell someone on the far right that. Like Florida's law against peaceable assembly. It sounds nice against the threat of violent mobs... but what happens if you are protesting for the wetlands, a historic society, or the right and suddenly find every member of your group slapped with felonies?
They are the right and the left, bot more the right and left hand coming together to crush us, with very few cogs in that machine making any moves to actually keep our freedoms. I don't blame them either. We're too dumb and simple to get together and do anything about it, why should they?
@razelove maybe not assume everyone is American?
I don't, your profile says united states... Felons have the same voting rights as immigrants if that's what you're saying, none. At least in theory that's how it works, I know a felon who votes, so who knows.
Dafuq I am dutch š
Might want to check your profile then lol
I am not afraid to discuss politics, I just prefer not to speak about politics because I don't need the extra stress because I have enough of my own self-created stress on my own.
Exactly
Understandable
Some people get too heated. Some people are too dumb. Some just talk in circles.
Nooo!!! I'm rubber and you're glue! Ha, I win! :)
You're confused.
Most people know nothing of politics. Just their issues and opinions of it.
I'm not confused, just slowly learning about how the process is conducted, campaign law, how to set up for donations and what not. Also that the dynamic needed to run today is polarizing issues and running a smear on your opponent. Rather than stating what I am, I only need to state how I'm not him.
Hearing the brainwashed right wingers is a worry.
They wave their Aussies flags even though the Liberals sell this country off and undermine workers pay and conditions.
Our kids will be working for wealthy foreigners for near nothing.
Aussies flags? What are those? Your region when I scroll over it says US.
This program can get my age right but not my region since it spammed my internet youād think it would get it right.
Iām from Australia
Might be a good clue to dump this waste of time platform
You do what you feel you have to do man.
Not being knowledgeable enough to discuss about certain topics.
That gets me too. I have a voracious appetite for knowledge. With politics though, Fox says cities are burning, CNN says everything is peaceful, after searching for hours you find things are mostly peaceful (number of people compared to violent altercations) with violent exchanges, mostly from Antifa, or previous gang disputes taking advantage of the chaos.
It doesn't benefit either side or their ratings to talk about reality though... It upsets me that with so much data on the web, actual knowledge rather than opinions are so difficult to find. Also that policies are being shaped on both sides from a subjective reality. Hell, I don't even know if the "objective" reality is true anymore unless I'm willing to go investigate with my own two eyes.
Nowadays when searching for information we need to read and re-read, research and compare stories/articles because there's too much misleading and fake news going on.
Yeah, the right would have more credibility to me if they combated fake news with, well, news, rather than more fake news that simply appeals to their demographic. They do have some solid gems, but when they publish photoshopped photos and stuff as news while yelling at CNN for doing the same, yeah, good stuff... lol
The only ones shutting down conversation and silencing people is on one side.. And we all know which side that is.
Yeah, though that does get old when there are devices other than smartphones. What was it... Parlor or something that was the next outlet many conservatives moved to? They shut down on there simply because the apple store stopped carrying it. There are PCs and Androids. The boycott power of millions of people is a powerful force beyond a stock market price.
I get that, and think the pendulum will swing the other way with FB and Twitter, but why would it take waiting on Trump to set up a server and invite people to chat on it? IRC still exists, Google+, so so many digital platforms.
I agree. Folks shouldnāt be waiting on Trump to do things. We can all do our part though. I quit FB, Twitter, and have been using Duck Duck Go for sometime. I also recommend proton mail for email. Itās free and completely encrypted and never scanned for keywords like gmail. And for any text correspondence between friends and family I use Signal. Itās also encrypted and free and works off cell and wifi like Apple messaging. It also has built in message destruction if you wish. And then there are all the products I now refuse to buy if I know they are actively working against my political interests.
I'll check those apps out. Even if it was the left that twitter and FB were silencing, I can only get that censorship if your platform is used to recruit terrorists or something. They literally allow terrorists on their platforms to recruit, while kicking unpopular opinions.
heinonline.org/.../brklr83&div=23&id=&page=
I know! isn't that crazy? They silence conservatives they donāt agree with, but allow terrorist to organize on their platforms (Antifa, BLM, ISIS, etc)
Nothing, I'm not afraid to talk politics at all. They can censor me online but they can't stop me from talking in person
Good on you man, what kind of venues do you find for that? I've found doing so has made me closer with some neighbors, estranged from some, and there's only one that I can actually verbally spar with who doesn't just shut down or buddy up assuming I share all their views.
Nothing. I am well known on Facebook and in Central NY for my political opinions.
Col beans, do you lean one way or the other? I shift with whichever way the wind blows best.
I am the District 3 representative in Central NY, for the Democratic Party. Grew up in a Republican household, but when Nixon got elected I went Independent. When Reagan got elected I went Democrat.
That's awesome. What was your impetus for getting involved in politics? I want to look into that myself, but don't really know where to begin.
Look up the local election board and contact them. Why did I get involved? After dodging land mines, mortar rounds, and small arms fire in Vietnam, after crawling through the Vietnamese jungle with Agent Orange, I knew the politicians had lied to me. I've worked ever since returning stateside with my local government, state government, and at the federal level to keep us out of war zones. Although I've obviously failed miserably, I CAN say our government can no longer draft young men and women into conscript.
Well, young men still have to register for the draft. With recruitment numbers vs. the need in the military right now, that's potentially a rough one. Retention rate there is only looking better when compared with most major city police departments after a federal consent decree.
I'm also sure my views would be much different if I had gotten drafted rather than enlisted. Especially into a war with that high of casualties and KIA. There's also only so much you can do to stop a war, or slow it. Most people really want to have a war take place, as long as they and theirs don't have to go into it. Movies and video games portray death so quick and clean, with protagonists who are unstoppable juggernauts. Not ambush after ambush, difference being which side has the initiative with lots of screaming and struggling until shock takes over.
I suppose that would be a difference in opinion we have. I think modern day less people would want war if we had compulsory service for two years. That is the minimum length of time for the GI bill and would also pay for everyone's school that puts into it.
If you have never been in a war zone, with people trying to kill you, small arms fire constantly around you, mortar shells exploding near you, land mines you have to avoid, all while trying to rescue a fellow Marine and return him to safety, then your opinion on war and its horrors just can't account for much in the eyes of those that have had to deal with it, day after day after day, even when we return home.
I was in the Corps, but a POG. My experience with people trying to kill me and small arms fire came later in Mexico and Central America. Mortars are pretty rare these days. RPGs, IEDs, and simple barricades to ambush are more common.
A piece of cinder block coming through a windshield is extremely effective in the wrong hands. Without a driver, there is no vehicle, and no need for anti-material rounds or copper penetrators. Have that happen once and abandon a vehicle to fire with an M-700, SKS or any other marksman rifle in unknown territory, oh boy, the pucker factor rises. Mercenaries don't get back-up.
Most people don't use landmines for one simple reason. You may get the enemy with them, but if there is a known mine-field, and you ignore politics, give it a few months, their forces will die stepping on spots they forgot they buried mines in. It's why you don't booby trap your house. In any existential threat scenario, you are the person most likely to be hit by fragmentation.
I've done more security work than I have military, so ignoring politics and just getting objectives achieved was a luxury I had afforded to me. If you're in the Corps, you have to do something about those bodies hanging from the overpass. If you're an independent contractor, fuck em.
I was a dual MoS, Coast Guard and Marine Corp, Search and Rescue specialist. In Vietnam, they were still using all of those. Thank you for your service.
I don't really mind talking about it if i have to. Just bringing up politics is just something an ethical.
*unethical.
I meant when everyone is like having a good mood but for whatever shallow reason you just feel the need to bring up something controversial
Well, if you want to break it down the only things you really have to do are breath, eat, and drink. Life would be pretty boring within those parameters though. Also very short for our species...
Politics is starting to intrigue me because it is such an illusory construct, but holds so much power. At the same time that I want to learn more about it and different views, I am finding that many people are reluctant to talk about it.
Sure but you have to be so relevant to bring that up
Its so pointless trying to debate others. People just scream at eacother and leave thinking they made a valid argument.
Sometimes yes, sometime no. Many people go with the momentum. Our two party system creates an illusion that if you disagree with one point of one party, you must support the opposite, same with agreeing with one of their points.
It's bullshit, and so strange to me that the two party system continues to draw power, influence, and people that polarize more strongly on both sides. Strange how fast Gore's Green party got shot down, or the Tea party, which logically are the extreme side of right and left.
I don't discuss it because it's personal. It's as simple as that, my thoughts on politics are my own and nobody else's business. Honestly, I feel like it'd save people a lot of anguish if they felt the same way.
Talking to a moron who is incapable to understand or view the world through multiple lens.
I've lived multiple lives, and seen the world from different points of view. Granted most of them were desperate and involved violence. It did make me realize how utterly ignorant I am about so many things, which helped a lot when I went to college (so many people get that paper and are geniuses!).
To be able to get through that barrier you have to realize your own limitations and confirmation biases. You won't change any minds, but you might open some up, yeah?
I'm reluctant to talk about politics, because I don't think I know enough about it.
Getting into stupid arguments. Its just not worth it.
It's pointless discussion.
In what way? I can say someone I disagree with on a regular, @msc545 hasn't changed my mind on much, but has pointed out when what I thought were objective facts... were objectively wrong lol. I'd say that makes a difference. The worst we can do is view "the other side" as sub-human, because that makes it easier to kill in any situation that you do.
Unnecessary drama, really.
I am not afraid at all.
Do you just choose not to, or what is your outlet? I ask because soon I do want to start discussing and trying to get involved with politics on a broader scale. Beyond my neighborhood to region, and online.
That's when your career will end if your not afraid to discuss any topic, as a regular citizen I have no media coverage or fame to be hold over my head, that they can try to tarnish. You really need to think through your points before voicing them. I wouldn't get anywhere in politics, they wouldn't let me.
My career is in chemistry, which has already been wrecked under this administration. More likely to prevent me from forward progress in politics would be my very checkered past, which the more I've thought on it, the more it could be an asset. Better the devil you know. How many major political parties do you have in Sweden?
I think in the US a lot of the problem we have is buying into the two party narrative. It makes an "us vs them" narrative far too easy, when people need to work together or not at all on goals in a modern society. You can't have things both ways.
We have seven major right now but anyone can start their own party, you however need a minimum of 4% of the votes to get in. So it's not an easy path to start up a party. You can't run it alone, you need representation in all regions or you will just be regional party, or you can skip sweden and focus on getting into the eu parlament. Because it has its own election and selection process.
I'm never afraid to discuss politics.
Me either when I have a flak jacket and shoulder rig on lol
Iām Nit afraid and do everyday!
I donāt like lots of idiots politics.
I donāt care if they like me or mine.
Im going to shove my ideas down their throats
... I'd hate to say it, but that might be a lot of the reason people don't want to talk about them. On that end not fear, but simply not arguing with an immovable object. Whether you're right or left, if you can't be open to the idea that you could be wrong, you can't debate. How else do you analyze your opponents positions if you don't even consider them?
Because people arenāt civil.
That does cut both ways though. You and I are both peoples.
You will note that I pointed no fingers at one side or the other.
You're a person too, if people aren't civil, you aren't civil either. Same goes for me, and every other human in civilization. It's not about either side silly. If you paint humanity with a broad brush, and you're a human too...
And Iām out. See? Your reply is exactly why I do not engage in political discussions.
That's called thin skin, we haven't discussed a single thing except how sensitive you are. Also that you blame as much on other people's "civility".
It isnāt a matter of being āsensitiveā. Itās a matter of being respectful to one another, and your initial reply shows that you are not capable of it. Have a wonderful day.