What makes you support Zionism and the State of Israel?

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Answer 1

ManOnFire | 898 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Guru

Got a long answer here but bear with me.

Not sure I support Zionism, and not sure I support Israel as much as I did years ago, but in a general sense I probably do. Has Israel been perfect in everything? No. One failure being the whole Gaza strip situation back in the early 2000s when they forced out loads of Palestinians from settlements there. And Israel will also not recognize the Armenian genocide because they don't want to make Turkey upset, who is like one of Israel's very few allies in the middle east. How terrible it is that Israel won't recognize this when they want the world to take the Holocaust seriously.

However, you have people who say the Jews had no right to go back into the middle east in 1948 and take back land, when the hard truth is that the people who were there weren't really supposed to be there. This is controversial, I know, but that is the truth about history. The Israelis were driven out of Israel centuries ago, some even fled because of Muslim takeover. The Ottomans had no business being there, and the chauvinist white Europeans and their 'holy Roman empire' had no business trying to 'take back the holy land' either, which they would've never even given to the Jews anyway if they did win. None of these external groups had any business being on Israelite land.

I know this is not a thing a lot of people like to hear or believe and it's very controversial - and that's okay - but biblically the land of Israel has always been promised to the Israelites and their descendants. If you actually read the Bible you will find that even God himself is not happy with the people of Israel and called them "stiff-necked" because they repeatedly persisted in doing what they wanted to do even when it went against God, but he allowed them to prosper and be victorious simply because he had already made a promise to Abraham that he would make his people great, and God doesn't go back on his word like humans do. Even right now I'm sure God is not happy with the Israel of today, but things were already laid out for a reason.

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Answer 2

NamerOfStars | 2.6K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Master

Because for all its problems, it's NICE to a have state in the Middle East that's not a fundamentalist backwater. The Israeli government, for example, does not allow gay marriage- but it DOES recognize said marriages done elsewhere. This serves no purpose other than promoting the destination wedding industry in Israel, I suppose, but when you compare it to Palestine- where the last big step forward in gay rights was *lessening* the sentence for a man convicted of homosexual activity for the first time to ten years in prison, rather than just executing him, they're a paradise of civic rights.

I hold, and will continue to hold, that it's morally wrong for ANY civil government to be anything other than neutral regarding religion, but that doesn't mean that I don't look at the reality on the ground. Israel may only be inching its way to rectitude, but it's still making progress. Take what you can get.

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2 People

Robber_Baron

4 mo
"Because for all its problems, it's NICE to a have state in the Middle East that's not a fundamentalist backwater."

Israel is the only apartheid state in the world at present times so it's clear you're either extremely bad faithed or stupid to make such claim.

"The Israeli government, for example, does not allow gay marriage- but it DOES recognize said marriages done elsewhere. "

False. Israel has discriminatory marriage laws against the Palestinians.

"Israel may only be inching its way to rectitude, but it's still making progress."

Israel is still committing crimes against humanity, war crimes and the crime of apartheid in the region, and, as a result, 2 in 3 Palestinians are in the situation of refugees, stateless people and IDPs... How can you claim that such record of aggression is progress?
NamerOfStars

4 mo
Australia, Austria, France, Saudi Arabia and New Zealand exist, so no, Israel is not the only apartheid state in the world. It's ONE of them, and that's awful, but no, it's not the only one. And yes, there are ways in which its laws are repressive. But again, LOOK AT ITS NEIGHBORS. Draw a picture of Moses sodomizing a donkey, and you'll get nothing more than the odd angry stare; try that with Mohammed, and you'll be dodging snipers for YEARS to come.

It's hardly fair to blame a nation for taking an aggressive posture towards the people who are CONSTANTLY ATTACKING IT. If you keep jabbing a grizzly with an electrical prod, sooner or later it's going to turn and maul you. It's no different when that grizzly is metaphorical.

Israel's treatment of Palestinians is appalling, true. But look at its treatment of everyone ELSE. Then look at Palestine's, excepting how it treats Israel. One of these things is not like the other.
Robber_Baron

4 mo
"Draw a picture of Moses sodomizing a donkey"

Good luck at doing that in Israel, kid. You could be lynched by a bunch Jewish settlers for that.

"It's hardly fair to blame a nation for taking an aggressive posture towards the people who are CONSTANTLY ATTACKING IT."

How cynical... Zionists have been commiting massacres, terror campaigns, bomber attacks, rape, state-enforced discrimination and thefts against the Palestinians, but you think the Palestinians must ❤ the zionists, how cute!

What would you do if a bunch of belligerent immigrants arrive to your country, kill your family, steal your properties, create discriminatory laws against you and expel you from your own land?
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NamerOfStars

4 mo
What would *I* do? Wrong question. You should be asking what the Palestinian people would do. Let's ask the Turks. Or the Romans, or the Persians. Oh, wait, we don't have to; they've already told us: bugger all.

Once again: the treatment of Palestinians by the Israelis has been awful. That does NOT mean you can justify THEIR atrocities by simply adopting a bigger victim complex.
Robber_Baron

4 mo
"That does NOT mean you can justify THEIR atrocities by simply adopting a bigger victim complex"

Well, it's not the Palestinians the ones who're being prosecuted by the ICC for crimes against humanity, war crimes and apartheid. Your point is extremely silly.

What makes you support Zionism and the State of Israel?

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