If a rape victim commits suicide then the rapist should go to jail for rape but not for the death of the rape victim because they made a choice to commit suicide
What about when a drug dealer sells drugs to an individual that ends up taking their life they’re charged with murder why shouldn’t it be the same for a rapist who caused the mental collapse of an individual?
A drug dealer is directly causing that persons death by selling them drugs, a rapist isn’t directly causing the suicide of a person, it’s messed up but it wouldn’t make sense for them to get a murder or manslaughter charge
Unless the drug dealer forced the drugs down the person's throat or held them at gunpoint and forced them to take the drugs with threats, the drug dealer is NOT responsible.
Unless the rapist literally killed them, his actions did not "directly result in their suicide". The actions of the rape victim are what caused the rape victim's suicide.
You keep trying to find ways to blame rapists for every single bad thing that happens to rape victims after they have been raped, and that simply is not the case.
Not every single bad thing, but there is plenty of studies that show that rape victims are far higher to end their life, due to the attack, not being believed, having to face the accused or even when the accused gets out. There are very common trends that everyone with half a brain can follow.
As for directly, what do you mean by that? lets say a guy almost kills the girl he raped but she survives, but he did permanent damage to say her heart and 10 years down the road, the damage kills her when her heart gives out. Do you consider that direct? as the heart damage was directly caused by the attacker. Before the attack she had a good strong heart.
Also and I think you'll be shocked to learn this but maybe it's time you did. The heart and the vagina are located in different parts of the body kind of far away from each other so having a penis that you don't want in you does not damage your heart as far as we know. Have you discovered something that modern science is not aware of in this regard?
"You keep trying to find ways to blame rapists for every single bad thing that happens to rape victims after they have been raped, and that simply is not the case."
Uh yeah, because more than likely they are the reason for someone feeling the way they do in the proceeding months to come. If the person had depression previously or some other mental disorder, then you can't blame that on the rapist, but after what they did to the victim, it can make the already present problems a million times worse, leading to suicide. Something tells me that you may have previously raped women in the past and never got jail time for it, never had to deal with someone you know personally who has gone through this, or are that uneducated about rape and how serious it really is. If you support rape so much, then please kindly go fuck yourself, sir.
While he is raping her, he beats the crap out of her, breaks some ribs, pierces her lungs and damages her heart.
Rape isn't just a sexual act, it is a very violent act. While she is resisting and fighting off her attacker he may get very violent.
There is an exact case of this I am speaking of, she fought hard and he in the process of trying to subdue her nearly killed her and damaged her heart. This is a real case example.
Sorry you think of it as her just laying there drugged or not fighting back. That isn't how it often happens.
Very few victims of crimes kill themselves. Those that do, it's often not the crime but the lack of care and therapy by family and professionals, after the conviction that is to blame.
Clearly you've not had experience with victims of rape, I agree that other crimes that is not the case but the rape culture makes it so when someone does report a crime, they are bullied, not believed and pressured into retraction. Many will end their life because they feel it is ruined and it can be directly linked to the attack. Just like Audrie Potts and Rehtaeh Parsons or the Lynnwood case.
This isn't as simple as reporting a car stolen or a mugging, victims of rape often find its easier not to report than to report it because of these factors.
It's tough. The problem is when the jury is wrong, it's tough to go back on. I know that's why they purposely drag these cases out. It's hard for who ever is lying to keep their story straight.
Rapist of married women, engaged women and children should be put to death regardless of circumstances.
A rapist of a single woman should just face prison time as to whatever the sentence is, but he shouldn't be put to death or receive a longer sentence because the woman killed her.
@Razp_Sorbet When you eat 7000 calories a day you start to lack common sense. If the rape wasn’t even reported then how do they know that the rape happened in the first place.
No, a rapists shouldn't get punished less because their victim has the mental fortitude to keep it together nor is mental health something that we can measure objectively.
Its true, direct links are hard but there is numerous studies from many countries showing rape victims are higher risk and more likely. The best idea seems to be to life time sentence for them, nothing to enhance then. At least that is what many are saying here.
I understand that there is a direct link, but enough people commit suicide without being raped and enough rape victims don't commit suicide to argue that the rape is not the reason for the suicide. In other words, any trauma would have caused the same result.
Maybe. I don't know. I haven't experienced rape, so I don't know how it affects the victim. Yet I do know that rape doesn't lead everyone to suicide. Even being raped more than once doesn't. My sister is living proof of that. She's been raped more than once and is still alive and not suicidal.
A big part of it has to do with life expectancies, someone who wanted to wait until marriage for example and now cannot has a harder effect on them, vs someone who is already having sex and doesn't see it as a big deal.
Don't know your sisters case though. There are known cases of women who's finance broke up with them cause they got raped and he didn't think they were virgins so they killed themselves thinking no man would ever want them. Directly linked to the rape. Some would say it was their beliefs, but the attack destroyed their beliefs.
I am just saying if I were a lawyer defending a rapist where the state is trying to charge for her suicide I could see several arguments I could use to call into question of rape directly causing the suicide, with examples of non suicidal rape victims and suicidal non rape victims. An argument could be made that the victim always had the propensity to be suicidal with enough stressors. Therefore while rape was the stressor in this instance a multitude of other stressors would have ended in the same way meaning that the rape didn't cause it any more than another stressor would have.
I was thinking of it more like a enhancement later, not during the trial cause if the victim dies before the trial, harder to get a conviction... but the best results seems to be forget this and just have a life sentence for them all, problem solved. No enhancement needed.
Many rape victims are bullied, because people don't believe them. They are bullied into retractions or into suicide. Look up the stories of Audrie Potts and Rehtaeh Parsons both bullied into suicide.
Or the Lynnwood case where no one believed her and they forced her into retraction.
No change. Suffering should not be the measure of a sentence. Especially when it can be inflicted on oneself. The public's penchant for vengeance should not be indulged.
Your okay with a victim having a lifetime sentence but the perp gets out and goes to live life like nothing ever happened?
I personally disagree, I think how well a victim is doing should be the measure of when the criminal can get out. The more severe the crime the less likely a victim can recover. It has nothing to do with vengeance but fairness, a criminal should serve a longer sentence than their victim.
Plus if a rapist gets out, and a victim is still alive, that is a major traumatic event right there.
Victims can and do get over things. And criminals can and do regret their reactions for the rest of their lives. So I disagree with your one-sided framing.
Basing it on the suffering experienced by a victim is literally vengeance. Just saying it’s not vengeance doesn’t magically fix that.
What’s been happening is that victims are encouraged to feel terrible and never recover. They’re taught to fixate on it and further inflate anything remotely perceived as suffering to bolster the sanctity of their victimhood. Feminists speaking about rape are particularly guilty of this.
Healthy encouragement would mean they’re not freaked out by rapists who have done their time being released. Acting like these victims are forever going to be too delicate to live outside again is the toxicity, that’s the problem. It’s being cruel to the victims by convincing them that they’re forever damaged and then using that as justification for cruel excessive vengeance on these criminals.
Rape victims don't really ever get over it, it just gets buried and they try to carry it their whole life. There is no greater trauma or crime. To say they get over them is disrespecting all of them and what they have been through. Downplaying it like it was no big deal.
Other crimes people can and do get over, I'm not referring to those though.
The reason is the rape culture, there is stigma to being a victim. Many people here said they would never even date a rape victim, even though they know its not their fault. Many guys will not see them as wife material, just easy sex cause rape victims often become promiscuous in a attempt to gain control over their sexual lives again.
If he gives her HIV, do you know many guys that would want to marry someone with that? If she was waiting until marriage and now men do not want her, or she was engaged and he ended it cause he see's her as not a virgin anymore.
All these things and countless more I won't list, contribute to the suffering and mental issues directly caused by the attack that make it impossible to move on.
Men in society think of rape victims as unclean, even when they know it isn't their fault.
If "Basing it on the suffering experienced by a victim is literally vengeance." that is the way we should do it then. No reason the victim shouldn't have a say on when they can get out. In fact that would be ideal, they cannot get out until the victim says it is okay. That would be perfect and fair. Don't hurt someone if you know they are the ones who will have to forgive you, in order for you to get out.
The reason victims freak out about them being released is because they literally stated they would KILL them or rape them again if they turned them in, so how should a victim feel when they get released? they going to hunt them down to finish the job and live up to their threat?
Home > Society & Politics > Questions > If a rape victim commits suicide what should the penalty be for the rapist, their actions directly resulted in the suicide?
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If a rape victim commits suicide then the rapist should go to jail for rape but not for the death of the rape victim because they made a choice to commit suicide
What about when a drug dealer sells drugs to an individual that ends up taking their life they’re charged with murder why shouldn’t it be the same for a rapist who caused the mental collapse of an individual?
A drug dealer is directly causing that persons death by selling them drugs, a rapist isn’t directly causing the suicide of a person, it’s messed up but it wouldn’t make sense for them to get a murder or manslaughter charge
Unless the drug dealer forced the drugs down the person's throat or held them at gunpoint and forced them to take the drugs with threats, the drug dealer is NOT responsible.
Unless the rapist literally killed them, his actions did not "directly result in their suicide". The actions of the rape victim are what caused the rape victim's suicide.
You keep trying to find ways to blame rapists for every single bad thing that happens to rape victims after they have been raped, and that simply is not the case.
Not every single bad thing, but there is plenty of studies that show that rape victims are far higher to end their life, due to the attack, not being believed, having to face the accused or even when the accused gets out. There are very common trends that everyone with half a brain can follow.
As for directly, what do you mean by that? lets say a guy almost kills the girl he raped but she survives, but he did permanent damage to say her heart and 10 years down the road, the damage kills her when her heart gives out. Do you consider that direct? as the heart damage was directly caused by the attacker. Before the attack she had a good strong heart.
How exactly does rape cause permanent damage to the heart issue so dramatically imply?
Also and I think you'll be shocked to learn this but maybe it's time you did. The heart and the vagina are located in different parts of the body kind of far away from each other so having a penis that you don't want in you does not damage your heart as far as we know. Have you discovered something that modern science is not aware of in this regard?
"You keep trying to find ways to blame rapists for every single bad thing that happens to rape victims after they have been raped, and that simply is not the case."
Uh yeah, because more than likely they are the reason for someone feeling the way they do in the proceeding months to come. If the person had depression previously or some other mental disorder, then you can't blame that on the rapist, but after what they did to the victim, it can make the already present problems a million times worse, leading to suicide.
Something tells me that you may have previously raped women in the past and never got jail time for it, never had to deal with someone you know personally who has gone through this, or are that uneducated about rape and how serious it really is. If you support rape so much, then please kindly go fuck yourself, sir.
While he is raping her, he beats the crap out of her, breaks some ribs, pierces her lungs and damages her heart.
Rape isn't just a sexual act, it is a very violent act. While she is resisting and fighting off her attacker he may get very violent.
There is an exact case of this I am speaking of, she fought hard and he in the process of trying to subdue her nearly killed her and damaged her heart. This is a real case example.
Sorry you think of it as her just laying there drugged or not fighting back. That isn't how it often happens.
Nope.
Very few victims of crimes kill themselves. Those that do, it's often not the crime but the lack of care and therapy by family and professionals, after the conviction that is to blame.
Hence your question is moot.
Clearly you've not had experience with victims of rape, I agree that other crimes that is not the case but the rape culture makes it so when someone does report a crime, they are bullied, not believed and pressured into retraction. Many will end their life because they feel it is ruined and it can be directly linked to the attack. Just like Audrie Potts and Rehtaeh Parsons or the Lynnwood case.
This isn't as simple as reporting a car stolen or a mugging, victims of rape often find its easier not to report than to report it because of these factors.
www.heraldnet.com/.../
It's tough. The problem is when the jury is wrong, it's tough to go back on. I know that's why they purposely drag these cases out. It's hard for who ever is lying to keep their story straight.
Rapist of married women, engaged women and children should be put to death regardless of circumstances.
A rapist of a single woman should just face prison time as to whatever the sentence is, but he shouldn't be put to death or receive a longer sentence because the woman killed her.
That seems a little odd, like it would make rapists actually want to hunt down single women instead.
Town they rot in prison.
*then
Rapists don't even get convicted, let's start with that issue first
You live under a rock and you’re too busy consuming 7000 calories a day so you don’t know what’s happening around the world.
@OneManOnly01
www.google.com/.../Stats_and_Facts_about_SA_doc.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjc5pvTou_1AhWMT2wGHSABBK8QFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw11FvtikdYSLcFAV3oZ2Jp5
https://stoprape.humboldt.edu/statistics
www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
@Razp_Sorbet When you eat 7000 calories a day you start to lack common sense. If the rape wasn’t even reported then how do they know that the rape happened in the first place.
@OneManOnly01 so you're blind and projecting.
@Razp_Sorbet At least I don’t eat 7000 calories a day😂
@OneManOnly01 apparently you do because you're projecting your insecurities so so hard onto me
Legally, unless the rapist encourages the suicide/assists in it, all you can do is punish the rape.
Same for robbery, etc...
The family might be able to sue for damages, though.
No, a rapists shouldn't get punished less because their victim has the mental fortitude to keep it together nor is mental health something that we can measure objectively.
I don't think they should serve more time than they would have already.
It would be almost impossible to prove that the rape was the reason.
Its true, direct links are hard but there is numerous studies from many countries showing rape victims are higher risk and more likely. The best idea seems to be to life time sentence for them, nothing to enhance then. At least that is what many are saying here.
I understand that there is a direct link, but enough people commit suicide without being raped and enough rape victims don't commit suicide to argue that the rape is not the reason for the suicide. In other words, any trauma would have caused the same result.
There is no other trauma greater than being raped.
Maybe. I don't know. I haven't experienced rape, so I don't know how it affects the victim. Yet I do know that rape doesn't lead everyone to suicide. Even being raped more than once doesn't. My sister is living proof of that. She's been raped more than once and is still alive and not suicidal.
A big part of it has to do with life expectancies, someone who wanted to wait until marriage for example and now cannot has a harder effect on them, vs someone who is already having sex and doesn't see it as a big deal.
Don't know your sisters case though. There are known cases of women who's finance broke up with them cause they got raped and he didn't think they were virgins so they killed themselves thinking no man would ever want them. Directly linked to the rape. Some would say it was their beliefs, but the attack destroyed their beliefs.
I am just saying if I were a lawyer defending a rapist where the state is trying to charge for her suicide I could see several arguments I could use to call into question of rape directly causing the suicide, with examples of non suicidal rape victims and suicidal non rape victims. An argument could be made that the victim always had the propensity to be suicidal with enough stressors. Therefore while rape was the stressor in this instance a multitude of other stressors would have ended in the same way meaning that the rape didn't cause it any more than another stressor would have.
I was thinking of it more like a enhancement later, not during the trial cause if the victim dies before the trial, harder to get a conviction... but the best results seems to be forget this and just have a life sentence for them all, problem solved. No enhancement needed.
I agree in most cases. Some rapes are not the same as others though, so it would still need to be a case by case basis
You could ask the same for someone that committed suicide due to bullying or even the loss of a job.
your point?
Many rape victims are bullied, because people don't believe them. They are bullied into retractions or into suicide. Look up the stories of Audrie Potts and Rehtaeh Parsons both bullied into suicide.
Or the Lynnwood case where no one believed her and they forced her into retraction.
www.heraldnet.com/.../
His only crime was the rape. You can blame him for the physical actions of someone that they did separately on their own.
In a perfect world they would be executed by law.
A person can kill themselves for a wide variety of reasons so unless there is a suicide note there's no way of knowing why the suicide happened.
I think that’s a great idea
Regardless of what happens afterwards. Someone should only do the time for that crime
First of all the suicide needs to be proven as the direct component of the suicide.
I think all rapists deserve the death penalty.
No change. Suffering should not be the measure of a sentence. Especially when it can be inflicted on oneself. The public's penchant for vengeance should not be indulged.
Your okay with a victim having a lifetime sentence but the perp gets out and goes to live life like nothing ever happened?
I personally disagree, I think how well a victim is doing should be the measure of when the criminal can get out. The more severe the crime the less likely a victim can recover. It has nothing to do with vengeance but fairness, a criminal should serve a longer sentence than their victim.
Plus if a rapist gets out, and a victim is still alive, that is a major traumatic event right there.
Victims can and do get over things. And criminals can and do regret their reactions for the rest of their lives. So I disagree with your one-sided framing.
Basing it on the suffering experienced by a victim is literally vengeance. Just saying it’s not vengeance doesn’t magically fix that.
What’s been happening is that victims are encouraged to feel terrible and never recover. They’re taught to fixate on it and further inflate anything remotely perceived as suffering to bolster the sanctity of their victimhood. Feminists speaking about rape are particularly guilty of this.
Healthy encouragement would mean they’re not freaked out by rapists who have done their time being released. Acting like these victims are forever going to be too delicate to live outside again is the toxicity, that’s the problem. It’s being cruel to the victims by convincing them that they’re forever damaged and then using that as justification for cruel excessive vengeance on these criminals.
Rape victims don't really ever get over it, it just gets buried and they try to carry it their whole life. There is no greater trauma or crime. To say they get over them is disrespecting all of them and what they have been through. Downplaying it like it was no big deal.
Other crimes people can and do get over, I'm not referring to those though.
The reason is the rape culture, there is stigma to being a victim. Many people here said they would never even date a rape victim, even though they know its not their fault. Many guys will not see them as wife material, just easy sex cause rape victims often become promiscuous in a attempt to gain control over their sexual lives again.
If he gives her HIV, do you know many guys that would want to marry someone with that? If she was waiting until marriage and now men do not want her, or she was engaged and he ended it cause he see's her as not a virgin anymore.
All these things and countless more I won't list, contribute to the suffering and mental issues directly caused by the attack that make it impossible to move on.
Men in society think of rape victims as unclean, even when they know it isn't their fault.
If "Basing it on the suffering experienced by a victim is literally vengeance." that is the way we should do it then. No reason the victim shouldn't have a say on when they can get out. In fact that would be ideal, they cannot get out until the victim says it is okay. That would be perfect and fair. Don't hurt someone if you know they are the ones who will have to forgive you, in order for you to get out.
The reason victims freak out about them being released is because they literally stated they would KILL them or rape them again if they turned them in, so how should a victim feel when they get released? they going to hunt them down to finish the job and live up to their threat?
yes they contributed to her suicide