Are there Christians who admire secularism and "separation of church and state"?

It seems to me that whatever religion becomes a majority it tries to push it's views on the rest of the country through government. Do you think this is fair to children and parents that don't want your religion? Isn't it supposed to be a choice?

Wouldn't you dislike it if another religion became the majority in the US and tried to spread it's beliefs through government and had it's beliefs painted all over government buildings in the country? People also make Christian prayers mandatory before council meetings which is against the religion to begin with...

Matthew 6:1 "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven."

The constitution says "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" People should be free to privately practice their own religion without interference from the government. If people don't want to take part in a religion that should be their freedom to have without interference from government.

I just feel like if other religions became the majority and tried to influence laws American Christians would be really upset.

Does anybody understand what I'm saying?

  • Yes (explain)
    Vote A
  • No (explain)
    Vote B
  • Other (explain)
    Vote C
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Yeah I always tell myself that it's just the fundamentalist minority that doesn't want the government infringing on their rights while maintaining the position that American government should have a Christian worldview and influence the people as such. I think that's kind of hypocritical.. It should be a neutral space so nobody has their rights infringed.


Most Helpful Girl

  • Having grown up in a country where state and church were one, its something that touches a nerve. The church ran this country for a long time. If you disagreed with a priest, you're life was over. Every school was run by the church, every child taught catechism, which you dared not question it or you were beaten. The Magdalene Sisters, the Christian Brothers were for many institutions of torture. Birth control was illegal as was homosexuality. The church was the state. It is only now we are starting to emerge from under the claws of the church but we still have a long way to go. It can still be very difficult to get a place in a school if your child is not baptized, even if the parents have no belief system or haven't seen the inside of a church since they were kids.The church still believes it can have a say in our laws and tries to influence politicians. It is never a good idea to mix religion and law. If someone wants to have their beliefs then let them but it doesn't mean that just because something goes against church law it should be illegal for all citizens.

    • Wow I didn't know all of this. Thanks for teaching me something new. I agree for the same reason.. Government should be a neutral space so nobody has their rights infringed.

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    • Did IE change much in the last decades?

    • @jacquesvol. Yes it has changed in the sense unmarried mothers are no longer locked away, treated as slaves and their child sold by the church. Contraception is no longer illegal nor is being gay. You can now live with your partner without being shamed from the pulpit every week. But 4/5,000 women still have to travel to the UK for abortions as its illegal here. They did change the law with regard to a woman's life being in danger through pregnancy but you still have to jump through hoops.

Have an opinion?

What Girls Said 8

  • Yes in theory. I don't like this whole "We can't even talk about good," concept in America. Like where I did my student teaching, teachers were discouraged to say God bless me that's over the top. I really wish we could embrace religion (all religions) into our society, especially our education system. The same way kids learn about Native Americans, I wish they could learn about Christianity, Buddism, Islam, ect...from a cultural standpoint, not a theology standpoint.

    With that said, I don't think any religion should have a place in government but it shouldn't be something that people actively try not to discuss.

    • I completely agree with you.. In fact it is perfectly legal to teach comparative religion or religion as literature it's just frowned upon to teach it as truth in government or the public sphere. I think it's a slippery slope though because I'm sure both you and I know some people who would jump at the chance and think "teaching the history of religions" as "preaching my religion" lol

  • Absolutely. If there was none, all of the pig headed Christians, my mother included, would abolish the death penalty, and make homosexuality and abortion illegal. Most Religious people are extremely closed minded. They all promote "loving thy brother", but forget to mention that it only applies if thy brother is also a follower of your religion. When I think of churches ruling with the government, the crusades and the Salem witch trials come to mind. A world run by religion is a world in chaos.

  • I believe that the separation of church and state should go both ways. As long as the state stays out of religion, religion will stay out of the state. Unfortunately there is very much overstep on either side.

    • How does the state interfere with how people worship?

    • Well the government profiles based on religion. Following the 9/11 attacks, all Muslims in the city were detained for almost two weeks, quite obviously for no reason.

  • I believe that a true Christian would be in the world and not of it.

    No Christian can truly mix with the world's system.

    So no.. I don't agree with the church mixing with the government, etc, etc.

    Neither do I agree with them pushing their views on people.

  • I'm a practicing Catholic and I don't like it when religion and law are intertwined. eg. I'm against gay MARRIAGE because of my beliefs, however, I don't think it would be a bad thing to have same-sex couples have some sort of civil ceremony (not marriage) which would give them the same rights as a married male/female couple.

    • I admire that you don't like when religion and law are intertwined.. You're right that usually whenever it does it causes a lot of discord and enmity for those of different religions and even those who aren't religious at all.

      Thanks for answering :)

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    • If the church doesn't allow gays to get married, that's their business. But if the STATE doesn't allow gays to get married, that's the business of all citizens, which includes gays. You seem to forget that you don't need a religion or church to get married. And that's why gay marriage should be legal, otherwise it is discrimination, nothing else.

    • You do need a church/priest to be married, technically anything 'marriage' outside of a church/without a priest is a civil union, regardless of the participants gender, it's just the law that has slapped the term 'marriage' onto it.

  • Upset would be an understatement.

  • state = a religion.

    • what do you mean?

    • They force their beliefs onto us with laws, if you break them you go to jail (hell). We have a president who is seen to be a savior who will lead us in the "right" direction. What is our destination? Will we ever not need leaders?(gods) can we ever just live freely and trust our own intuitions and know that , humans are good from within and naturally want peace and harmony we do not need an institution (government or religion) to force that upon us.

    • Some would accept stoning:
      From his blog ( ):
      100% Pro-Life [EXCEPT for gay life, clearly]
      100% Pro 2nd Amendment [huh? Stones and stoning in the constitution? I didn't know that.]
      100% Traditional Family Values [Traditional familial stoning on Sunday?]
      Lower Taxes & Spending[stoning is cheap, stones can be used over and over]
      Strong Supporter of States’ Rights [does the OK Constitution include stoning? :-0]
      Defender of Small Business [meaning he sells stones?]

  • A lot of Christians I know do -- some for the reasons that you mention (they might not always be the majority), some because they are tolerant and understand the world is complex. The more radical someone is, the louder they are. That goes for just about any belief or movement.


What Guys Said 6

  • I can already tell by the responses that there are no true secularist Christians out there. The girl that thinks gays should get "civil unions" and not marriage is lying to herself. Marriage isn't a religious union. It's a state union. Marriage is NOT holy matrimony. The two are not the same. Gays should be able to marry as they please and call it MARRIAGE.

    Christians also grossly misinterpret the term "separation of church and state". The separation protects all beliefs, religious or otherwise, equally. However, separation is not exemption. Breaking the law under the guise of religious freedom is still illegal. Your religion is still required to operate within the bounds of the law. Christians don't understand that, and it's no surprise given that the law panders to them. For example, Churches are non-taxable. Why? Every other form of business or organization is taxable. Why are churches so special? We give them exemptions from the law, so they try to take more and more. If you give a mouse a cookie...

    All in all, there are no secularist Christians. It's not in their nature and I doubt it ever will be.

  • Question: Humphreys, Austin, Baumgardner, and Snelling examined zircons and found that the helium diffusion rates didn't line up with billions of years old. The zircons had a ton more lead and helium in them than they should have--pointing to more like 6,000 years old, not billions.

    Evolution relies on earth being billions of years old--but there is ample evidence that the earth is fairly young, still in the thousands.

    Which means that while you might not accept is as complete proof--evolutionists who ignore such proofs are taking their beliefs on faith. Evolution is hardly a proven fact.

  • What's that? Religious people are pushy about their religion and their values and beliefs onto others? Shock and awe...

    seriously, it's one of the main reasons our country has gone to sh*t. Christians (yes, Christians) that have pushed crap legislation due to their bs morals (that don't even necessarily line up with the Bible) that screw us over. See Prohibition for a chief example. But if you want something more recent? See the bible thumping f***tards trying to push the teaching of Bible and Christianity in public schools. I don't care if it's a private school, but PUBLIC SCHOOLS should not have anything to teach about religion. The most I could see would be an objective look at ALL religions, but even then, don't care, let that happen in college so the person can make their own informed decision.

    • Btw, while it's Christianity in the US and other countries, all religions are problematic. And yes, Anti-Theists (not atheists, mind you) that try and push that you can never have religion anywhere are also a problem, but they are a tiny TINY group compared to any religion.

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    • I would blame Christians and Corporate Greed tbh

    • People can disagree with this answer as much as they want, but maybe they should read a history book first. Personally I claim to know at least enough about history to completely agree with this answer.

  • You'd have to be more specific.

    Catholics, for instance, would want to ban birth control.

    Protestants--lists of what Protestant Christianity bans includes rape, kidnapping, burglary, murder, dishonoring your parents, adultery, bearing false witnesses against people...

    How much of that is your *rights* as an American that the 'religious nutjobs' want to take away?

    • I'm not talking about things like that.. I'm talking about people using government to push the religion itself into public schools and such. I'm talking about people taking science out of schools and pushing religion into them. Pushing mandatory prayer or mandatory oaths into schools. Pushing creationism into schools. I mean strictly religious things. Pretty much things that preach things from a religion instead of government being a neutral space to it.

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    • Like I always say with anything.. extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.. Until you can provide me with that I have no reason to accept these fringe claims.

    • I think it is important to explain some errors that are repeatedly committed in these arguments. The first fallacy is claiming that an unexplained mystery supports the creationist view simply because science is not currently able to explain it, and the second fallacy is looking at only one side of a natural equilibrium and claiming that an unlimited build-up would occur, posing a challenge to mainstream science.

  • I answered C because I don't believe all Christians are that way, but many/most just believe they are "right" in their views and it's therefore "right" of them to impose their view of morality on others via laws or otherwise.

  • I don't really have any reason to 'admire' secularism. But the same people complaining that religion is being pushed on their kids are the same people who end up going to religious schools pushing for them to enforce secularism to not offend those who aren't religious... this I do not respect but I do respect the ones who keep their secularism to themselves. I live in a country where secularists are the majority and atheists penalize, make fun of and patronize christians whereas they will give religions that are violent that they are too scared to criticise extra priveledges (i.e Islam)

    P.s Please refrain from quoting passages without knowing the meaning..., you can't just pick bits out without understand the full context, its offensive

    • I don't think people should promote atheism or anything else for that matter. Like I said I think government should be a neutral space. If people want to believe in a religion they should have that freedom to do so while being treated with respect. I don't think any religion should have special privileges I agree with you there. That isn't secular if it shows bias to different belief systems.

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    • all it says is "if you want your religion to be respected, you have to kill someone for offending it" which is normal with what Islam does and much the uneducated west on islam thinking every negative about it is untrue, it can't be true... but I only dislike it when atheists do the things like I said. when they enter christian schools pushing for less religion within them and win it

    • Well atheists shouldn't push anything in private religious schools.. It's private for a reason.. it isn't part of the public school system. They have every right to teach whatever they want to teach.