Nobody was forced to go. They chose to on their own. What happened to individual responsibility?
@lawhawk84 exactly personal and individual responsibility
This is NOT NAZI GERMANY
Organizing a social gathering amid this very contagious outbreak is irresponsible. Religious worship is being done online through various portals and is successful in spreading the good word. That particular physical gathering in the news was organized by a team of reckless people headed by a preacher playing "hero" to his foolish followers. We are trying to avoid the spread of a disease folks! Spiritual bonding can be achieved even with PHYSICAL DISTANCING using the internet. Other congregations have been doing it. Everybody who joined that particular gathering is guilty of participating in that assembly but the preacher should be the first one to be held liable.
@DeeDeeDeVour its your choice wether to attend or not. If you don't like it then don't join in on the gathering. If you enjoy being a government controlled sheep keep doing and bringing what you're saying.
@lawhawk84 Exactly. The clergyman can insist on keeping a venue open all he wants, but ultimately its each of those who choose to leave his or her home and congregate who bear responsibility here. They have access to the same public information, and encouragement (if not directive) to shelter-at-home as everyone else. To argue the leadership's role is relevant here is like saying Nazi officers' in death camps were not responsible for the systematic extermination of people because they were following orders. I'll be the first to stipulate the preacher is an arrogant, defiant prick. But all this noise about holding him criminally responsible for any deaths that may come from those attending services in defiance are the rantings of those caught up in a national panic, and are pure nonsense. It's simply a bridge too far.
@Doncastar Thank you people losing their god damn minds.
@masonderek6994 Yes, THEY may choose to go, but what about the people who live with them? They're gonna bring home COVID19 to the people who live with them, and those people didn't choose to go to the gathering.
@lawhawk84 the disease spreads to people that had no part in that congregation. It's selfish and anti religious to meet up! If I went lets say and caught it, guess who else is gonna get it? My boyfriend and both of his parents who are at risk of dying. They didn't choose to go, did they?
They took precautions. Everything was cleaned, social distancing. No greater chance than going for groceries.
@lawhawk84 I understand, but it's still a huge risk as is going to the grocery store I'm sorry to say
If you stay home you won't be infected. So if doesn't make a difference
@lawhawk84 I could be if I accidentally run into one of the people at the grocery store? It's just better to stay home unless you absolutely have to go out.
Before this drags on any further, can we please pause to look at Browne’s background? His “church” isn’t really a church, and mainstream Christian churches don’t recognize it. They’re cultists. They might as well be Jim Jones or Branch Davidian followers. They have a pretty vocal distrust in government and like most conspiracy theorists, they’re paranoid. Browne and his ilk are not representative of the majority of us. His assemblies have been shut down, and Browne has been charged with unlawful assembly and a 9999 charge (short hand for an unspecified misdemeanor for which they haven’t decided or figured out how to charge him). The public safety concern, the greater one, has been dealt with. Let the court deal with Browne.
@Asker: Thanks for the other MHGirl. :)
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In summary what is ur answer about the question?
I agree it shouldn't be... but it is being done. A pastor was just arrested in FL this week.
I know. Brown has been charged with two misdemeanors though, not criminal charges. Whether the misdemeanors hold up remains to be seen.
Misdemeanors ARE criminal charges. That just means you cannot get more than 1 yr in jail.
No misdemeanors are not classed as criminal charges, though some are more serious and carry potentially stiffer sentences.
Are you serious right now? You are 100% wrong. Look up the definition.
Yes I’m serious. In lay terms call them criminal if you want because they’re violations, but Brown has been charged with ordinance violations which are not criminal charges.
Ordinances can still be criminal charges.
But they are not. The state’s Grand Jury will not hear it. They are comparatively two-bit charges, well below the threshold for Criminal Courts to hear it. His case is not eligible for a jury trial. Media involvement based on the current climate is misleading, and makes it appear the charges are more serious than they really are. It’s a municipal court case. I’m a criminal defense attorney and have been a prosecutor. Brown’s case is too far below criminal court threshold to even waste a minute on it.
you are an attorney that doesn't know what a misdemeanor is?
I know full well what a misdemeanor is, and we seem to be talking from different points of reference here. Mine is based on how the justice system prosecutes and disposes of offenses.
@lawhawk84 Good he was arrested. People should obbey the authorites especially if this is a national emergency thing that afffects EVERYONE EVERYONE
"As long as gatherings take reasonable precautions like distance between participants"This choir used reasonable precautions like distance between participants. Yet even though nobody had symptoms when they arrived, 75% of participants ended up getting COVID19 and 2 have died already.www.latimes.com/.../coronavirus-choir-outbreakReligious practice (which doesn't NEED to occur in groups) isn't the same as "essential trips" and you know it.
@mistixs I agree not only keeping social distancing bu touching any surface in a building the virus could be even in the surfaces and people touch the seats on the church and walls.
@mistixs You clearly missed the point.
Not everyone has access to technology. Ever think about that. Older Americans and the poor don't always have technology for those meetings like your suggesting.
I'm still trying to find where the Constitution gives special privileges to religions.
@JenSCDC Amendment #1
Still not seeing it. Maybe you're imagining things.
Shipping costs money , you need to get rid of them as cheaply as possible
@Daniel_Dano No, its about making a point and making them suffer. I bet I could fit 100-200 of them in a single container, who knows maybe even more. I'd unload them in the middle of nowhere, and whatever happens happens, ither they catch a polar bear or polar bears them. Now when I think of it I'd make it into a reality show too.
@Daniel_Dano Maaaan and if there was a vegan, having to eath another human, premium tv if you ask me.
You seem perfectly happy to risk everyone's life by going to buy your groceries. Lets be consistent here.
^^^^^^^^^^This post isn't about reducing the spread its about persecuting the christian faith.
@jgibsonian1986 lmaoo what are you talking about? Doesn’t even make sense
@JimboGB Actually I haven't gone to get groceries since before the pandemic became prevalent in my community. Regardless, buying necessities isn't the same as unnecessarily getting into groups to perform religious practices that can be performed at home (either virtually or by yourself).@jgibsonian1986 If it's about persecuting the Christian faith, then why were all the bars the first to close? Those aren't Christian.
Corona isn't spread through germs. People are uneducated on how viruses operate. It's just as contagious as the flu because it is spread in the exact same way minus sneezing
@jgibsonian1986 People decided to go to a choir last month. Nobody was showing symptoms of COVID19, but to be cautious, they took precautions such as maintaining distance between each other & not touching each other.75% of participants ended up getting COVID19, and 2 ended up dying.www.latimes.com/.../coronavirus-choir-outbreak
@Powderpuff97 Look at the wording in the text following the question. Ironically, it says persecute.
@LuvMeSomeBoys I accidentally tagged the wrong person and I’m on the wrong post lol
@LuvMeSomeBoys Yeah and by that logic, the lockdown is also persecuting people who like to go to bars.
Relax it’s humor.
Violate the right to assemble, the right to worship and the right to free speech all at once!So you're the mythical son/grandson of Hitler... visited daddy/grandaddy's grave recently?
@gotc147 don’t be so fast on the draw slinger. They have something called bio weapons and these people will do more then violate some “rights” they’ll kill and spread the disease. Son of Hitler, really how many people have you saved in your life? Count for me.
Well you would know all about bioweapons wouldn't you?You probably already had contact with the virus over the winter anyway, as did most other people, so you're freaking out about nothing.
"They're allowed to disobey the Constitution for the safety of out people" oh God that sounds like a slippery slope...
They're never allowed to disobey the constitution. Times like these are why the constitution exists. To keep the government from having to much control
“They’re allowed to disobey the Constitution?” That’s a hard and fast no.
Can you please point to me where in the Constitution they can disobey it under emergency circumstances?
@masonderek6994 you don't want the government to have too much control and I understand because freedom is great that we have in US. But during emergencies, there will be exceptions. Don't forget people are advised to stay in and not forced and that's because of freedoms. However, when it comes to other peoples lives, there can be exceptions if it can harm others. For example, we have the freedom of speech right? However, you can't yell fire inside a crowded movie theater because the panic could cause people harm or get trampled and affect other people's freedoms and safety This is the same, it's effecting other people's safety and lives because of such ignorance.
@pepper1993 It's called a "state of emergency". When a state/country is under a "state of emergency" the government is empowered to be able to do things that they otherwise wouldn't be able to do.
@gotc147 The Constitution was written in a time when people didn't even know what germs were.
Except state of emergency declarations were designed to provide federal and state funding and relief in times of emergency and disaster, not give governments wholesale license to set aside provisions of the Constitution and other legal protections simply because they get in the way or become inconvenient. People do have legitimate cause for concern about how much unchecked powers governments assume, since there’s ample precedent for government exceeding its prerogatives using national or regional crises as some justifiable panic. Mitigation measures in place now are reasonable under the circumstances; it’s how far they’re liable to go before we reach the point of governmental excesses and abuses. Right now it’s not government behavior that concerns me as much as the lynch mob mentality of the citizenry. Browne and his sycophantic followers (the point of the question) are cultists and the congregation have been shut down. The public safety concern has been addressed, so knock off the talk about criminal negligence and manslaughter. Not going to happen.
@LuvMeSomeBoys "provisions of the Constitution" that were written during a time when people didn't know what germs were & that you could spread disease just by being in the same vicinity as someone.
@mistixs It doesn’t matter, they were crafted to be timeless and they are. They were designed to establish a framework for government, enumerate and limit its powers, and protect people from excesses and abuses of government.
Listen, if you don't realize that the government is just trying to save millions of lives then whatever. I'm a devote Catholic and I'm still not going to church because it endangers everyone around me and the people I run into the grocery store, the old lady I talk to when I walk my dog, and my boyfriend's parents who I live with. This isn't about "power" that the government has. It's about each of us needing to protect the people around us.
@brennanhuff my state it's forcing us and threatening to fine/ arrest us. This is ssdi that they can have time ti further work on laws to further restrict our rights in order to further control us in order to eventually enforce a one world government
Doesn't matter, history is full of atrocities committed under the guise of "helping".Any infringement on my rights will be met with resistance up to and including deadly force.
@gotc147 I'm right there with you standing up for our rights. The government is the enemy of the people
@masonderek6994 We need the government or else it would all be chaotic.
@hotbaeforyou they addres never allowed to disobey the constitution. The constitution was written for times like these when the government wants total control. @mistixs They are forcing people to stay inside by giving fines or arresting them. The constitution was written when there were plagues and dysentery so they knew what germs were
@hotbaeforyou Ronald Reagan did it best the less government the better. Keep the government from having to much power or they will want total power and control. That wad true when he said it in the 80's and it's still true today
@masonderek6994 it's literally a disease spreading though
@hotbaeforyou yes it's spreading but that doesn't trump our constitutionally protected rights. I care that it's spreading but that doesn't forego our guaranteed constitutional rights as they are the supreme law of the land and aren't forgotten about during times of crisis.
@masonderek6994 "The constitution was written when there were plagues and dysentery so they knew what germs were"Yes, those diseases existed, but they didn't know what caused it (germs). They literally believed that those plagues were caused by God's vengeance. As recent as the 1850s, a man named Ignaz Semmelweis was put into an insane asylum for suggesting that handwashing could decrease chances of spreading disease. People thought it made no sense because they didn't know what germs were.
That's a theory. Not a very good one though. by the way there were scientist's and dr's back then that knew what was causing germs and diseases
@masonderek6994 "there were scientist's and dr's back then that knew what was causing germs and diseases" Yeah but it wasn't common knowledge. Most people (including doctors), if they had even heard of the concept, thought it was crazy. That's why people were thrown into insane asylums for making the suggestion.
In such medical emergency as we currently have it best for a law to be passed to avoid such gatherings to reduce the Coronavirus spread.
Then why shouldn't stores be open in our free country?
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy then why don't we do this during the flu as it's actually more deadly. IRS only an emergency so local governments can enact more laws to control the FREE people
Flu is not more deadly I’m not sure where you have been
Since Jan the flu has a 8 to 1 death rate ti the cortina virus. That's from the CDC
_So_far_. The problem is that COVID-19 deaths are still growing.
And so after flu deaths
*are not after
Not let them, it is their right and if they die they die. I think the world needs far less religious nuts running around
@NorthwestRider its my legal right to go meet friends in the park or go to a gig in normal times but i dont know if you noticed but these are extraordinary times and government have emergency powers relating to that... for now basic human rights on movement have to be overlooked. as for religious nuts, i couldnt agree more lol
I think everything should be open and let a certain groups of people die off. Plus I am not giving up my rights to save old ass religious nuts or politicians
@NorthwestRider second point first, not bothered. thats up to youfirst point... if you buy into the flattening of the curve idea then it makes sense that we do so to take pressure off the medical services... many people will die needlessly if we just let it run its course because hospitals won't be able to cope... now im as concerned about world population numbers as much as anyone, afterall when i was born there was less than half the people on earth as there are today, but im not the kind of person to wish death on anyone... even my worst enemy
But they're religious, shouldn't they be held to a more drastic standard than everyone else?
That would be discriminating against religious people. What you're saying makes sense but sadly very often it's the opposite. Religious bodies sometimes get away with things and are tax exempt in some countries
@NorthwestRider It is NOT their right. I don't know how it is in your country but most of the world we are in lockdowns and we get from fines, arrestment to police force for violating curfews or social distancing. Also the problem is 1 contaminated from this mass will infect a lot more other people before they die, spreading the disease
I live in the United States, home of the free. Plus I do want to be much fewer religious nuts running around. I have a deep hate for religion
@NorthwestRider haha I already guessed you might be from USA. I'm not a fan of religions either, trust me. But right now, are you free? Can new yorkers go out and enjoy a meal at the restaurant? No, so why should religious ceremonies be free to do what they want? Also, they do not simply die, if they simply die then who cares? they contaminated 100s and 1000s including non religious people first that's the outrageous thing!
I say reopen everything, there are groups of people like the religious nuts I want to see die off
So you hate them so much that you are prepared to sacrifice other non religious people? Also, that would sacrifice your country economically in the long run
You know most religious nuts are old and old people are at the greatest danger from dying from this?Most young healthy people are not religious and they will not die from this virus
Yes old people are at greater risk but young people are not immune. Young people will die due to lack of ventilators. But I don't think you're seeing the bigger picture of how this will impact you and destroy your country. This pandemic is creating a lot of economic strain, health system can't cope, we are getting into a recession and depression because of it. But I see that your hate for them overtakes your country's well being. I'm really understanding now why the US is no. 1 in virus cases
We in the United States shoot our oppressors, people in other countries don't have that ability.For now, we're playing nice due to the greater good, but if it goes on long enough and/or gets restrictive enough that will change.
Or I could just put a few 30 caliber holes into anybody who attempts that, I like that idea.
But going to these events a person can infect others and nbot knowing it about it not only the person itself can be infected that is the reson for social distances and avoid crowds
Yup they shouldve stayed their asses home. only they r responsible
You are an evil person, you do realize that?
Sounds like you want religions to have special privileges, aka state sponsored religion.
Before anyone gets butthurt, I like to find humor in everything and anything.
Omg ur hideous and fat omg hahah so funny
Haha Haha fuck off
How is this natural selection? The mortality rate of the virus is estimated to be around.66
The problem is they're going to spread it to others.
Yeah but when it’s a public threat that can harm others.. then it’s a problem. Right now everything needs to be canceled
@Powderpuff97 Totally agree
To each their own. We're all make choices. We don't live in a dictatorship where we're told what to do. We're have freedoms and when governments impose on those freedoms it's considered tyranny and must be fought against or they will continue until we no longer have any freedoms. That's your personal choice to want everything cancelled that's not law or freedom. You feel that way then stay home and isolate yourself and your family. Don't force your choice on others a not all of us believe the same as you do. Freedoms don't cease to exist during times of war or crisis just because some want them to be restricted. That's why we have freedoms
@masonderek6994 I disagree, no one is saying you can’t ever go back to church or taking away your religious rights. This is all temporary until things get under control. This is a serious public threat that has affected everybody. 6 million people out of jobs, thousands dead including, nurses and doctors stressed. There was a church that help choir rehearsal that included 46 people and all of them caught the virus and 4 died. You’re putting yourself and others at risk unnecessarily. This has nothing to do with tyranny, dictatorship etc because that’s not the case. This is about taking measures to make sure this virus stops because it has affected everything. When you’re a religious person you take God with you everywhere or you can worship at home temporarily. My church does prayer through the phone or Facebook. There’s a lot of other ways to do things.
That's your CHOICE and you can accept it. I chose to remain free from government tyranny and control. They can't go against the constitution unless they change it and it take 36 states to agree in order to change the constitution. It starts out temporary until Congress decides to try to make it permanent and change the constitution without notifying the public af they don't actually care about us and just how much money they can make
@masonderek6994 In my country since this is a ntional emergency the congress are speeding laws on things to maintan control on guidelines and they are not followign the constitution beause this is a THREAT that they won't wait until some people in Congress agrees on something beacuse all of them had agreen on making laws necesary for this moment.
@masonderek6994 ok then get sick and die. I don’t fucking care and don’t forget to spread it on to innocent people who may not be able to handle it. The government and the Coronavirus owes you an apology for stopping your freedom. Also staying home should just be the smart thing to fucking do.
@Powderpuff97 Ohh my God you must be one of those radical people who never follow orders i bet since you were a toddler. People like you do nto worth a dime as a person. But pray or wish this virus do not hit one of your relatives or closest people so that way you could swallow your words
In the USA the constitution is the supreme law and can't be changed simply or ignored. The constitution was written for times like these when the government seeks total control. Our constitution is there to limit government power and not citizens rights.
@masonderek6994 But in thgis case citizens rights do not worth much maybe in other scenarios not in the ones the whole world is suffering now.
@kitty71 our rights are more important than anything else. Don't care about anything but the USA and our unalienable rights which are guaranteed by our constitution which don't say they stop for a pandemic or crisis
@kitty71 I’m from America and I must say. We are a spoiled country and we use the constitution to get away with everything even when it’s wrong. Can’t argue with people like him who think too radical and not common. They really feel like they’re talking about something.
@masonderek6994 No wonder Trump is president. Look how many deaths are in NY and Trump did not mind much inthe beginning and look now inthe position US are now. Trump the bozo
@Powderpuff97 I agree many citizens rely on the constitution to get away with everything even if it is wrong. People like this dude so radical is taking politics into this pandemic and this pandemic is not about political parties but union of the whole country regardless which party you support.
@kitty71 he tried in January to SSI something but Congress was to busy impeaching trump over nothing. This is exactly about politics. Look at the billions in funding for non essential things the Democrats tried to sneak into the coronavirus funding bill. The Democrats are trying to send money to other countries to perform abortions how is that vital to the coronavirus, it's not, how is giving Congress a raise which is hidden in the package vital it's not. Im not radical except in the fact that our constitution is the supreme law of the land and we're don't just forget about it during a Crisis. Er don't forget about it during hurricanes, or earthquakes or during war time. We didn't forget about it during polio, or measles, or h1n1, or TB, which all were much more massive than this will ever be. Look at history we've never abandoned the constitution in order to violate citizens rights like you want to do currently
@masonderek6994 yada yada yada blah blah blah. Wish noone in your family gets sick or infected
@kitty71 if they do or die who fucking cares not me
@masonderek6994 You are one worthless pathetic guy you dont even care about your own family not even your paretns? YTou must be a nazi I bet you hate black people too and jews etc You msut be even a mysoginst
Not a nazi love people of all colors. Not mysoginst either. You've gotta be a Democrat or liberal to be so blind about what's going on in government while you're distracted by the coronavirus
@masonderek6994 this is not about political parties yet youy are mentioned them
In the USA this is definatly about political parties. Like with the relief package in Congress there Democrats have added 185 billion in non essential funding for crap that had nothing to do with the virus. Like 185 million to provide abortions in other countries. To provide more free money to illegal immigrants. Anything that has top do with federal funding is always political no matter what tou think. Because Congress only vars about their pretty projects not actual Americans
@masonderek6994 I may stop speaking to you is really worthless I won waste my breath anymore to contineu speaking with a person like you closed minded. Go get infected and die then if that is what you want
Im not closed minded. I just have a different view than you and you can't handle it. People have different opinions and you're never going to change my mind and I'm never going to change yours. Neither of us is wrong just believe different things. I value rights and laws over anything and you value lives more
@masonderek6994 You dont value life? Ohh well that sums it up then if you dnt value life then you might as well kill youself if life is not worth to you
I value life I just don't buy into the overdriven hype that the media is portraying this as. So that they can influence people to start thinking a certain way before election season starts. That came directly from a friend who's a top person at a major news network
@masonderek6994 Then you insist in talking about politics in this time. At this time no country inthe world should talk about politics is not time to talk about poltiics. Countrie has to focus on take care of their citizens the best way they can so all the countrys can overcome this. This si time for union in al the world not about politics.
@masonderek6994 Im sure you read the news and all that but USA now had became the 1st world country to report more than 1000. deaths beause of this virus in just one day!! and the number keep increasin, sad. IM glad Im not living there now even if Im US citizen living in another country, So is the reason why lock downs is necessary and close places where crowds can gathered. This virus does nto care if you are rich or poor is htting all social classes the same way.
In the USA in times like these are the times when our Congress screws us with laws and spending that otherwise wouldn't be approved. Politics rule America So we have to be concerned SSI they don't pass things that would otherwise not be allowed because of stay at home orders where Americans can't watch and verify what Congress and local governments are trying to pead when they think the public is quarantined and not watching what they're doing. They have no one to object to what they're trying to sneak through without accountability. Without holding the government accountable we no longer have freedoms af they will take them away. We've already shut down the Canadian border due to safety but the Democrats won't allow us to shut down the Mexican border because that's where they can buy votes from
But violating my right to move freely is against the constitution period
@masonderek6994 And why you need to go out so desesperately
Because I have every right to. My governor doesn't have any right to limit my activities as he's not God or king even though he likes to think here it's. And why do I need to follow my corrupt governors illegal requests. I have no contact with him giving him any authority over me. He's just another inept government lackie who can't hold a real job
@masonderek6994 BECAUSE WE ARE IN WORL WIDE HEALTH PANDEMIC. You still do not get it dont you?
@kitty71 We had there same thing with polio, measles, chicken pox, and we made it through just fine through ask those world wide health pandemics. I totally get it but have a dusting opinion that you can't handle. So you're butthurt that I'm sticking to my view and belief and I won't cave to what you think I should believe.
They have the right to assemble and worship, government cannot legally stop them.
@gotc147 It depends on if there is a stay at home order from the state. I disagree with you about their right since they're putting other people's health and life in Jeopardy. This isn't something to take lightly. You could be a carrier of the coronavirus and not even show symptoms. I don't like this either, but I don't see any other way around it.
Easy alternative, take your chances with the virus, it's not very deadly and you probably already got infected with it over the winter anyway.
@gotc147 You're a fool.
The intelligent always look like fools to the foolish.4 months of this virus being spread completely uninhibited, it's already been everywhere, shutting everything down might have made a difference back in December but now it's like putting body armor on after getting shot.
He has nothing better to do than to have bitterness and hate in his heart.
I'm inclined to agree
I love your dark humor it amazes me the things you pick I wish I had that,😂