Nobody was forced to go. They chose to on their own. What happened to individual responsibility?
@lawhawk84 exactly personal and individual responsibility
This is NOT NAZI GERMANY
Organizing a social gathering amid this very contagious outbreak is irresponsible. Religious worship is being done online through various portals and is successful in spreading the good word. That particular physical gathering in the news was organized by a team of reckless people headed by a preacher playing "hero" to his foolish followers. We are trying to avoid the spread of a disease folks! Spiritual bonding can be achieved even with PHYSICAL DISTANCING using the internet. Other congregations have been doing it. Everybody who joined that particular gathering is guilty of participating in that assembly but the preacher should be the first one to be held liable.
@DeeDeeDeVour its your choice wether to attend or not. If you don't like it then don't join in on the gathering. If you enjoy being a government controlled sheep keep doing and bringing what you're saying.
@lawhawk84 Exactly. The clergyman can insist on keeping a venue open all he wants, but ultimately its each of those who choose to leave his or her home and congregate who bear responsibility here. They have access to the same public information, and encouragement (if not directive) to shelter-at-home as everyone else. To argue the leadership's role is relevant here is like saying Nazi officers' in death camps were not responsible for the systematic extermination of people because they were following orders. I'll be the first to stipulate the preacher is an arrogant, defiant prick. But all this noise about holding him criminally responsible for any deaths that may come from those attending services in defiance are the rantings of those caught up in a national panic, and are pure nonsense. It's simply a bridge too far.
@Doncastar Thank you people losing their god damn minds.
@masonderek6994 Yes, THEY may choose to go, but what about the people who live with them? They're gonna bring home COVID19 to the people who live with them, and those people didn't choose to go to the gathering.
@lawhawk84 the disease spreads to people that had no part in that congregation. It's selfish and anti religious to meet up! If I went lets say and caught it, guess who else is gonna get it? My boyfriend and both of his parents who are at risk of dying. They didn't choose to go, did they?
They took precautions. Everything was cleaned, social distancing. No greater chance than going for groceries.
@lawhawk84 I understand, but it's still a huge risk as is going to the grocery store I'm sorry to say
If you stay home you won't be infected. So if doesn't make a difference
@lawhawk84 I could be if I accidentally run into one of the people at the grocery store? It's just better to stay home unless you absolutely have to go out.
Before this drags on any further, can we please pause to look at Browne’s background? His “church” isn’t really a church, and mainstream Christian churches don’t recognize it. They’re cultists. They might as well be Jim Jones or Branch Davidian followers. They have a pretty vocal distrust in government and like most conspiracy theorists, they’re paranoid. Browne and his ilk are not representative of the majority of us. His assemblies have been shut down, and Browne has been charged with unlawful assembly and a 9999 charge (short hand for an unspecified misdemeanor for which they haven’t decided or figured out how to charge him). The public safety concern, the greater one, has been dealt with. Let the court deal with Browne.
@Asker: Thanks for the other MHGirl. :)
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In summary what is ur answer about the question?
I agree it shouldn't be... but it is being done. A pastor was just arrested in FL this week.
I know. Brown has been charged with two misdemeanors though, not criminal charges. Whether the misdemeanors hold up remains to be seen.
Misdemeanors ARE criminal charges. That just means you cannot get more than 1 yr in jail.
No misdemeanors are not classed as criminal charges, though some are more serious and carry potentially stiffer sentences.
Are you serious right now? You are 100% wrong. Look up the definition.
Yes I’m serious. In lay terms call them criminal if you want because they’re violations, but Brown has been charged with ordinance violations which are not criminal charges.
Ordinances can still be criminal charges.
But they are not. The state’s Grand Jury will not hear it. They are comparatively two-bit charges, well below the threshold for Criminal Courts to hear it. His case is not eligible for a jury trial. Media involvement based on the current climate is misleading, and makes it appear the charges are more serious than they really are. It’s a municipal court case. I’m a criminal defense attorney and have been a prosecutor. Brown’s case is too far below criminal court threshold to even waste a minute on it.
you are an attorney that doesn't know what a misdemeanor is?
I know full well what a misdemeanor is, and we seem to be talking from different points of reference here. Mine is based on how the justice system prosecutes and disposes of offenses.
@lawhawk84 Good he was arrested. People should obbey the authorites especially if this is a national emergency thing that afffects EVERYONE EVERYONE
"As long as gatherings take reasonable precautions like distance between participants"This choir used reasonable precautions like distance between participants. Yet even though nobody had symptoms when they arrived, 75% of participants ended up getting COVID19 and 2 have died already.www.latimes.com/.../coronavirus-choir-outbreakReligious practice (which doesn't NEED to occur in groups) isn't the same as "essential trips" and you know it.
@mistixs I agree not only keeping social distancing bu touching any surface in a building the virus could be even in the surfaces and people touch the seats on the church and walls.
@mistixs You clearly missed the point.
Not everyone has access to technology. Ever think about that. Older Americans and the poor don't always have technology for those meetings like your suggesting.
I'm still trying to find where the Constitution gives special privileges to religions.
@JenSCDC Amendment #1
Still not seeing it. Maybe you're imagining things.
Shipping costs money , you need to get rid of them as cheaply as possible
@Daniel_Dano No, its about making a point and making them suffer. I bet I could fit 100-200 of them in a single container, who knows maybe even more. I'd unload them in the middle of nowhere, and whatever happens happens, ither they catch a polar bear or polar bears them. Now when I think of it I'd make it into a reality show too.
@Daniel_Dano Maaaan and if there was a vegan, having to eath another human, premium tv if you ask me.
You seem perfectly happy to risk everyone's life by going to buy your groceries. Lets be consistent here.
^^^^^^^^^^This post isn't about reducing the spread its about persecuting the christian faith.
@jgibsonian1986 lmaoo what are you talking about? Doesn’t even make sense
@JimboGB Actually I haven't gone to get groceries since before the pandemic became prevalent in my community. Regardless, buying necessities isn't the same as unnecessarily getting into groups to perform religious practices that can be performed at home (either virtually or by yourself).@jgibsonian1986 If it's about persecuting the Christian faith, then why were all the bars the first to close? Those aren't Christian.
Corona isn't spread through germs. People are uneducated on how viruses operate. It's just as contagious as the flu because it is spread in the exact same way minus sneezing
@jgibsonian1986 People decided to go to a choir last month. Nobody was showing symptoms of COVID19, but to be cautious, they took precautions such as maintaining distance between each other & not touching each other.75% of participants ended up getting COVID19, and 2 ended up dying.www.latimes.com/.../coronavirus-choir-outbreak
@Powderpuff97 Look at the wording in the text following the question. Ironically, it says persecute.
@LuvMeSomeBoys I accidentally tagged the wrong person and I’m on the wrong post lol
@LuvMeSomeBoys Yeah and by that logic, the lockdown is also persecuting people who like to go to bars.
Relax it’s humor.
Violate the right to assemble, the right to worship and the right to free speech all at once!So you're the mythical son/grandson of Hitler... visited daddy/grandaddy's grave recently?
@gotc147 don’t be so fast on the draw slinger. They have something called bio weapons and these people will do more then violate some “rights” they’ll kill and spread the disease. Son of Hitler, really how many people have you saved in your life? Count for me.
Well you would know all about bioweapons wouldn't you?You probably already had contact with the virus over the winter anyway, as did most other people, so you're freaking out about nothing.
"They're allowed to disobey the Constitution for the safety of out people" oh God that sounds like a slippery slope...
They're never allowed to disobey the constitution. Times like these are why the constitution exists. To keep the government from having to much control
“They’re allowed to disobey the Constitution?” That’s a hard and fast no.
Can you please point to me where in the Constitution they can disobey it under emergency circumstances?
@masonderek6994 you don't want the government to have too much control and I understand because freedom is great that we have in US. But during emergencies, there will be exceptions. Don't forget people are advised to stay in and not forced and that's because of freedoms. However, when it comes to other peoples lives, there can be exceptions if it can harm others. For example, we have the freedom of speech right? However, you can't yell fire inside a crowded movie theater because the panic could cause people harm or get trampled and affect other people's freedoms and safety This is the same, it's effecting other people's safety and lives because of such ignorance.
@pepper1993 It's called a "state of emergency". When a state/country is under a "state of emergency" the government is empowered to be able to do things that they otherwise wouldn't be able to do.
@gotc147 The Constitution was written in a time when people didn't even know what germs were.
Except state of emergency declarations were designed to provide federal and state funding and relief in times of emergency and disaster, not give governments wholesale license to set aside provisions of the Constitution and other legal protections simply because they get in the way or become inconvenient. People do have legitimate cause for concern about how much unchecked powers governments assume, since there’s ample precedent for government exceeding its prerogatives using national or regional crises as some justifiable panic. Mitigation measures in place now are reasonable under the circumstances; it’s how far they’re liable to go before we reach the point of governmental excesses and abuses. Right now it’s not government behavior that concerns me as much as the lynch mob mentality of the citizenry. Browne and his sycophantic followers (the point of the question) are cultists and the congregation have been shut down. The public safety concern has been addressed, so knock off the talk about criminal negligence and manslaughter. Not going to happen.
@LuvMeSomeBoys "provisions of the Constitution" that were written during a time when people didn't know what germs were & that you could spread disease just by being in the same vicinity as someone.
@mistixs It doesn’t matter, they were crafted to be timeless and they are. They were designed to establish a framework for government, enumerate and limit its powers, and protect people from excesses and abuses of government.
Listen, if you don't realize that the government is just trying to save millions of lives then whatever. I'm a devote Catholic and I'm still not going to church because it endangers everyone around me and the people I run into the grocery store, the old lady I talk to when I walk my dog, and my boyfriend's parents who I live with. This isn't about "power" that the government has. It's about each of us needing to protect the people around us.
@brennanhuff my state it's forcing us and threatening to fine/ arrest us. This is ssdi that they can have time ti further work on laws to further restrict our rights in order to further control us in order to eventually enforce a one world government
Doesn't matter, history is full of atrocities committed under the guise of "helping".Any infringement on my rights will be met with resistance up to and including deadly force.
@gotc147 I'm right there with you standing up for our rights. The government is the enemy of the people
@masonderek6994 We need the government or else it would all be chaotic.
@hotbaeforyou they addres never allowed to disobey the constitution. The constitution was written for times like these when the government wants total control. @mistixs They are forcing people to stay inside by giving fines or arresting them. The constitution was written when there were plagues and dysentery so they knew what germs were
@hotbaeforyou Ronald Reagan did it best the less government the better. Keep the government from having to much power or they will want total power and control. That wad true when he said it in the 80's and it's still true today
@masonderek6994 it's literally a disease spreading though
@hotbaeforyou yes it's spreading but that doesn't trump our constitutionally protected rights. I care that it's spreading but that doesn't forego our guaranteed constitutional rights as they are the supreme law of the land and aren't forgotten about during times of crisis.
@masonderek6994 "The constitution was written when there were plagues and dysentery so they knew what germs were"Yes, those diseases existed, but they didn't know what caused it (germs). They literally believed that those plagues were caused by God's vengeance. As recent as the 1850s, a man named Ignaz Semmelweis was put into an insane asylum for suggesting that handwashing could decrease chances of spreading disease. People thought it made no sense because they didn't know what germs were.
That's a theory. Not a very good one though. by the way there were scientist's and dr's back then that knew what was causing germs and diseases
@masonderek6994 "there were scientist's and dr's back then that knew what was causing germs and diseases" Yeah but it wasn't common knowledge. Most people (including doctors), if they had even heard of the concept, thought it was crazy. That's why people were thrown into insane asylums for making the suggestion.