Why Does No One Ever Mention this Simple Fact?

Question

I am, of course, referring to NATO expansionism and American imperialism, both of which are interlinked and a threat to world peace and stability. It's all very well to complain about an alleged "Russian buildup" within the borders of Russia, but do these people ever mention the presence of foreign bases and troops (mainly American) in places like Estonia, which used to be a part of the USSR, or Turkey?
Putin may not be a very nice person, and you may not like him at all, but putting aside his personality flaws you have to confront the fact, when you consider what is currently happening in the Ukraine, that this tension and the threat of war could easily have been avoided, and the blame for this mess really does lie exclusively with NATO, not Russia. Putin is an old-fashioned nationalist/patriot, and he sees his country being surrounded.

Each blue and white circle represents a nation where the U. S. military is present in some capacity

Ordinary Russians do not want another war. They lost approximately 27 million during World War 2, so security for them comes first. The lack of empathy and common sense shown by people like the foreign minister Blinken and his motley gang of neo-con thugs will be the reason why a war will break out, if it does.
Russians generally do not care about Western Europe, and they never did. Europe has nothing that Russia either wants or needs, so all of the current (and past) scaremongering about "Russians wanting to conquer the world" is just so much horseshit. Stop playing 'Command & Conquer: Red Alert', stop watching neo-con garbage like CNN and FOX, and actually develop the capacity to think for yourself, and actually question the official narrative, because things are actually not as they're being presented to you.

Answer 1

BCA6010 | 485 opinions shared on Trending & News topic.

Guru

The part you're conveniently leaving out however is that countries like Estonia and Poland went out of their way to ingratiate themselves with the west as fast as possible, and if we really want to talk about historical precedence, then go back to before the Soviet Union's expansion during World War 2 and you'll find that Estonia, Latvia, Finland, etc had a massive contribution of volunteers who fought for the Axis in WW2 explicitly for the reason of fighting the Soviets, even though they saw the Germans as a lesser of evils. They're making a not so different judgment call now, too.

From Russia's standpoint, what Putin appears to be doing does make sense. Both NATO and Russia prefer to see countries like Ukraine and Georgia as a buffer state, which means them attempting to join NATO poses a threat to that status, particularly for Russia. Additionally, much of Eastern Ukraine though perhaps not to the same extent as the Crimean peninsula are almost certainly more sympathetic to Russia than the current Ukrainian government, and it's not difficult from the outside looking in to see why those people would rather be under a pragmatic nationalist like Putin than Zelenskyy, who seems to be very corrupt and ineffective if not completely disconnected from the people, not unlike most prominent western administrations at this point. There's at least one prominent shady capitalist who has openly bragged about having Ukraine in his pocket, and it's fairly common knowledge that the Biden family is well connected with Zelenskyy's government as well.

From the western European and American perspective however, this is strongly resembling the buildup to WW2: an aggressive nation seizing the holdings of its former empire, using nationalistic rhetoric to win over ethnic groups, all for the greater good. Not only does this make western nations' skin crawl, but it also provides a treasure trove of political ammunition.

I can pretty much assure you however that nobody outside of a handful of government warhawks (in the US anyway) want to go to war over Ukraine, and even a lot of the usually brash people don't trust the Biden administration to manage an armed conflict of any kind, regardless. If American troops were to be committed to combat operations in pretty much any capacity, it would almost certainly become the most heavily, maybe even violently protested war in US history. Our media talking heads are flapping idiots who only "know" and say what they're told; they're no better than Pravda.

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Answer 2

Curmudgeon | 255 opinions shared on Trending & News topic.

Guru

"stop watching neo-con garbage like CNN"

CNN is neo-lib, but I get you. Donald Trump was demonized and even smeared for pointing out that America was just too overextended, and BOTH the NeoLib Left AND the NeoCon Right actually joined together to fabricate an utterly false claim about Donald Trump with respect to Czar Putin.

Putin is NOT a Stalinist or Brezhnevite Communist. He is more of an old school Czar, and yes he is concerned about the still sizeable numbers of ethnic Russians in the "near abroad" (former Soviet Empire states).

Now the Baltic States and the formerly "Captive Nations" of the former Warsaw Pact were eager to join NATO, but expanding NATO beyond them, into Ukraine and/or Georgia, really IS a bridge too far.

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Answer 3

Anonymous

Ukraine's president himself said that Ukraine is ready to join NATO. No one is pressuring them they're the ones asking to join. Don't you think it has the right to decide what it wants for itself as a sovereign nation?

Why do they have to ask Russia for permission or care about its opinion on the matter?

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2 People

Gal67

3 mo
Are you conveniently forgetting the fact that a few years ago the legitimate (i. e. elected) government of the Ukraine was overthrown in an EU-backed coup?
Opinion Owner

3 mo
Ukrainian citizens themselves want to be closer to the West/EU to fight off Russia's influence in their country. Many Ukrainians don't like Russia.
Gal67

3 mo
Oh, you know what the Ukrainians themselves want. Are you by any chance Ukrainian? Do you at least live there? Why should I believe your claims?
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Curmudgeon

3 mo
Unfortunately, there is a sizeable ethnic Russian population in Ukraine, particularly in the Crimea and the eastern parts of it, as high as something like 90% of the Crimea. And the Russian fleet is still at Sevastopol today. Does an American president really want to commit to Ukraine forcibly holding those areas, even if the ethnic Russians there say no?

Obviously, the demographics of Ukraine are a sad legacy of Stalin's forcible relocations and deportations, but should an overextended and broke USA get involved in THAT mess? And how? Redraw the map so that a truncated Western Ukraine joins NATO? That sure won't be pretty either, and this is not something to which an overextended and broke USA should commit.
Opinion Owner

3 mo
www.brookings.edu/.../

Ukrainians have a negative opinion of the Soviet Union because of events like Holdomor. And of Russia for trying to interfere in their country, because of the Crimea situation, and because they want to remain an independent country.
Their dislike of Russia shouldn't surprise you.
Curmudgeon

3 mo
@Anonymous That Brookings report is certainly spot on about the ethnic Ukranian (western) side of that nation, to be sure, but on the ethnic Russian eastern borderlands and the Crimea, not so much. And does an overextended USA really want to take on yet another foreign problem? I think not.
Robber_Baron

3 mo
Isn't the "president" of that nation a US puppet installed in the office?
Gal67

3 mo
@Robber_Baron Yes, exactly, a puppet. None of this would have happened if the West had just minded it's own damn business, but noooo... they couldn't do that!

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