Guys, if you want the girl to always make the move... does it mean...

We're living in a time of feminized boys - men who have no proper tribal leadership from their absent fathers, and so are left feeling helpless, nervous, and lacking masculine power.

It's unfortunate and sad really.

If you're a masculine women (I don't mean a manly woman) then you'll feel very comfortable leading a man, taking him by the hand, and getting what you want.

But from my experience most women prefer being very feminine, while I prefer being very masculine. There are still plenty of men out there who are willing to step up and be MEN, but you'll just have to look harder.

To all the boys out there who don't know how to find their masculine energy, read anything written by David Deida ( link )

Good Luck!

~ Robby

I actually had this problem myself, for a while. My girlfriend is into being roughed up a bit, while lovemaking. However, by nature, or lack of exposure I suppose, I'm much more reserved. Traditional bed and bedroom scene, basically, and undressing each other civilly. However, after a few discussions together, I've gotten used to and into taking charge more. To answer your question, communication is key to getting what you want. We won't know, unless you tell us.

1950 tradition of men asking women on a date has nothing to do with masculinity. Masculinity is the physical features found on most males. Having a pair of balls does not increase your courage or make you immune to rejection.

In this time and place, we are all equal. You only have to ask yourself, why don't you make a move towards a guy you like, and you will have your answer to the opening question.

I don't understand a women who doesn't even have the courage to look up, and keep eye contact with a guy they are interested in, and smiles when he notices, complain that he didn't ask her out. Why are you surprised that men don't want to ask you out when you make no obvious signs that you are interested in him?
I guarantee you if us guys could get a women we are interested in who is also interested in us to walk over to us with just a smile and 30 seconds of eye contact we would do it. When you don't show any sign (that males can pick up), we make the reasonable assumption that you are not interested.
We are not stupid and we are not ruled by your hormones. If it looks like there is no honey, why stick you hand in the bees nest?

I think the reason people (especially females) keep bringing this up, because they got a taste of what it is like to have the pressure of asking someone they are interested in out on a date, and they wish they could avoid it altogether.

I saidA due to the fact, I like girls with confidence and know what they want

I think it is because it is becoming more popular for women to say what they want. Women are empowered more and I think that carries over to relationships. In the past it was unheard of for a girl to make the first move. Now it is more common to get hit on by a chick.

It also could be that you might be intimidating...Not in a bad way but maybe your beauty or popularity make them feel like they don't have a chance

It takes the pressure off from being rejected. My tomboy makes many to all the decisions and I have no problems with it.

Robby is funny. And his views very objective. It has nothing to do with the my father being around or not. That's silly. I know people who have fathers and still haven't learned jack from them. The reason is not one that need pseudo psychology.

Women are more clever these days. More into games and strategies than ever before. Sometimes, all us guys need is one sign for ok-go. But it feels like sometimes you guys disguise that sign. "well, I don't want him to think this until this, so I'm gonna do this until he does that." huh? Lol. So, we being guys, don't know what to do.

Also we are living in the modern age. You girls like us? Tell us. How are we suppose to know sometimes if you don't just tell us. Is that wrong? Is that feminine? My Grampa might think so, but lots has changed since his day. We are equal, aren't we. In what we want, right? So, you can be like Robby and say, well, if guys are equal to girls, then guys must be girls. Does thar make you girls masculine women? No. Rediculous.

We are being raised in a different time. Sure, its still nice to have a guy be all proper and ask you out. But if he hasn't, and you want to ask him out, you shouldnt? Seems silly doesn't it. That we wouldn't be able to be together and enjoy a nice relationship because of rules and tradition.

It means we've overheard you complaining to your friends that all these creepy guys keep hitting on you and how much it sucks. So out of consideration to your feelings, and because we don't particularly want to volunteer our names for your "yet another generic guy who hit on me" list, we hold back.

But even after complaining about it, most girls don't take any particular action so the only guys they talk to are the ones who hit on them, and they wind up choosing one of those generic guys on their list anyway.

And we're like, "WTF? Wasn't I taking her feelings into account and trying to be considerate? Screw this!" And gradually we learn that being a pushy jerk is the only way to get one of these forever-passive girls, dooming even more girls to be constantly hit upon. So they complain to their friends, and the guys that don't suck hold back, and the guys that do suck get the girls, and the cycle continues...

What, bitter? Me? :D :D

Oh my. Where are you? The place I'm in, we (guys) always make the first move. But you gotta give us the signs of "I like you, Let's get together, I want to kiss you SO bad." like that. Or else we will just forgive and forget you were ever partially into us. I think the span of a man's attention to a certain miss, is about a month and a half. IF you don't give us the signs that you like us, we will just be like, "Meh, she doesn't like me and I'll just forget because she didn't give me the tell-tale signs." And we move on.
Wrap-Up
GIVE THE GUY SIGNS THAT YOU ARE REALLY SUPER DUPER INTO HIM! AND HE WILL THINK IF YOU ARE SO INTO HIM, YOU WILL SAY YES TO A RELATIONSHIP NO MATTER WHAT!
~Ryezz

Most men these days aren't raised how they were in the olden days not to mention we kinda get titred of being stomped on all the time by rejection since most females don't ask us. But there are a few of us left; I was the one to get on one knee and ask her to marry me, but then iraq happened and she died. I won't ask another female out, why? I'm alweays getting told she'd want me to be happy and with another. Not becasue I'm weak, but becasue I'm dedicated and loyal to that one person for the rest of my life and beyond, becasue I know that someday I will meet her again in the after life. Until then, I will wait, and that means forever.

If you are a man, then you would ask her, if your male, MAN THE HELL UP.

because a lot of guys are intimidated by women for some dumbass reason

Yes, feminism has screwed up the whole natural order of things. It has turned most guys into pussies who can't do anything themselves, and it has made them afraid of women. Feminism also demonizes men at every chance it gets. So its no suprise that its hard for guys to realize their potential when our society never aknowledges thier importance and labels us as deadbeat dads, rapists, perverts, and assholes just for simply being male. So, because mens' natural function of being dominant leaders is being supressed by society men everywhere are too afraid to even talk to women, let alone state interest.

I think this question is a very much debated one and right fully so. In the past is was the guy job to ask the girl out <--1950s thing. Obviously this has changed since the 50s. With the woman's lib movement changes have come for the good. Now we have women in all levels of the work place. The recent growth of the stay at home dad. This I think has vastly changed things for the guys.
Now it is being more accepted this girls make the 1st move. I know some girls think it should have stayed the way it was and some want it the opposite. This puts us guys in a funny spot some were raised with the old way and some the new way.

As for me who realizes that it is a every changing world It doesn't bother me if girl approached me 1st. So don't be surprised that you going to find a odd moment.

Because I've always made the moves and initiated the conversations.. And ended up having to dealing with teases.

For once.. I want women to know how men feel.. and not feel like they have to wait for some guy to magically come to them and sweep them off their feet.

We, as men, don't want to make the first move as if we made a mistake, it would be embrassing for us both and men always make fun of other men when it comes to rejection.

Men are more understanding than women think. If you make "the move" on us and we weren't interested, we'd say no but that'd be that whereas vice versa, the ridicule would go on

The times when girls were waiting for the guys are gone.
If the girl made a (small) first move I'd know my move will be acceptable to her: a way of inviting me to make my move, sparing me being turned down rudely (some girls are masters in demolishing boys who make a first move and don't please them-it seems to boost their ego)
If a girl makes a first move on me and she isn't welcome I'll never give her negative remarks (or a slutty reputation) but I'll do as if I didn't understand what she's hinting at. In the worst case I'll be matter of fact with her, explaining I'm not free.
But that's me...I can't speak for others.

We always want to be sure before we make a move. So sure that you can put the fear of rejection past ourself, which is a pretty big fear. That's what it really breaks down to. We do all this Facebook stalking, asking friends, asking her friends, trying to look for signs but even with all of this added up, we are still filled with enough doubt that you didn't throw yourself at us in the first place that you must not be into it and then we don't ask because of fear of rejection. Honestly, it just takes on brave moment by someone to actually get things moving.

B.

To the guy complaining about the spectre of sexual harrassment lawsuits only really matter in the workplace, and then only if you persist after it's made clear the object of your attention would rather not be.

Oh this is an easy one to answer. Let me spell it out to the modern world. Sexual harassment and equal rights. Women fought for both arguments and got stung with the results. Some men don't care and just go for it while others listen to the little man on their shoulder saying what if she's one of those women who takes everything the wrong way. Yes, we are getting smarter by not asking you out. Maybe someday the tables will turn and we won't be afraid to speak our mind and not have to worry about a lawsuit or getting slapped because of words taken the wrong way.

I do it because I am terrible shy. I think a lot of men don't ask women out is because they expect the women to make some kind of move first and most of the time that never happends.

Well sh*t if a guy doesn't make a move first then that's not right. But then again girls should also try to meet guys midway. Maybe show you like the guy in some way, and then wait for himn to make a move.

You need to put a E that says he is insecure...

Same as girls -- fear of rejection.
"When she says, 'NO' " is a big ego buster.

Depending on the guy it could be all of the above. From narcissistic guys to shy guys to guys with no clue what signals you're putting out. A guy would much rather you make a move if he doesn't know what move to make on his own that would be well received, while the egotistical guy just wants girls to throw themselves at him, these days this type of guys still exists but you;d be able to tell him from the guy that just isn't sure if you like him or not. A guy that isn't into you wouldn't care one way or the other if you did or not, if he's not into you why would he waste the time?

From personal expierence girls can be CRUEL. If the guy was never popular in school then when they get into the real world they're going to remember those moments and always have self doubt.

When I was in highschool I asked this girl out after consulting with her friends, who all agreed that "yeah she's into you". When I asked her out she laughed at me.

Then comes the girls that would just give the look of "who are you and why should I care?" and won't eve respond to you or any of your questions.

Trust me. When you grow up as a reject then women in the real world bring back all the embarrassing stories and you don't want to throw yourself out there just to be hit by a train.


Now women are far different then girls. Women are more mature. Some evolve past that "better then thow" highschool attitude and are much easier to approach and avoid humiliating yourself. However when you've been embarrassed enough times by girls then it's hard to see them as women.

I vote neither because there is no easy answer.

Personally I find myself and many guys I know in the same mindset of not making moves because of being wrong, scared of being embarrassed by her and we tend to like the girl to go at her pace with things because we are always ready.
Girls need to make first moves more because guys are sick of being embarrassed by being pushed away.
That's my personal stance anyway, kiss me because I aren't kissing you.
Same with sex, you make the move because believe me we are ready for it 95% of the time.

So many times I sit there for hours both flirting back and forth and I know she wants to make a move but I won't make the move first so not to feel like I am being too forward but will she make the move..Noooo because she is too busy worrying about me thinking she is being too forward so it's a frustrating situation... but that's sister in laws for you.

Just an observation about the poll results. Man's confidence has gone down over the years and that also plays a factor in why we don't approach like we used to.

Because we have been making the first move and taking the initiaive forever.

jdcpa and psychmike pretty much have it down. that's the truth. the bottom line is this: when I find myself sizing up a girl to see if she's worth the potential stress and trouble that could result from my approaching her, the thing I ask myself is "is she worth all that?" the answer is always no...

I'd say because the biggest turn on for me is a girl that knows what she wants.
Like said below, girls have a hundred things going around in her head when you ask them out. I ask a girl out, that had been that her friends said she liked me and she said no, she then flirted with me a lot two days later and I asked her out and she said yes. What changed in that two days, nothing but her having to think about the situation.
With me it's a yes or no. Sometimes it's good ,that as guys, we only have one switch to turn us on and off cause were either on or off, so it's a yes or no while girls have to find out if the like him or is it just cause he is nice or that he helps her a lot.

Guys have been making the first move, for the most part, forever. In this day and age there are more people than ever in the world. Everyone has their unique personalities and new ideas as to how to get the woman/man they want. Back in the day a man could just go to a woman's father and say I think your daughter is beautiful and I want to date her. If the father liked the guy he would tell his daughter to date him. Guys were forced to make the first move because it was almost impossible to get what you wanted if you didn't. Now with all of these independent new age women out there, us guys have an intimidation factor playing into our decision to make the first move or not. Most times a guy will look at a good looking girl and go up to her and start a conversation, but go about it in the total wrong way. Again, back in the day you could see a beautiful girl and go up to her and just simply say hello I think you are very beautiful and I would love to take you out to dinner. And women would go for that because they were searching for a man to take care of them. Nowadays women don't feel as much pressure to find a man to take care of them because they can take care of themselves just as easily. So now women have the choice to find "mr. right". Women aren't just going to settle for one of the first guys who tells her she is beautiful. So now us guys have to come up with new ways to approach a woman because the old ways aren't working anymore for the most part. We now have to try a lot harder and take that leap of faith in hopes that the beautiful girl we are interested in will catch on to us and be as interested in us as we are to them. The only problem is that a lot of guys don't know how to act around attractive and successful women. We try to blow our personality up so much that we end up blowing the whole conversation and hurting our ego and confidence. Men have also developed other new ideas when it comes to dating. We came up with this idea that if by chance a woman finds us to be interesting she can do the same thing to us that she would want us to do if we saw her across the room and wanted to approach her. Sometimes we don't notice a person until they come out and say something to us. Confidence and self esteem also play a factor, but that problem can be solved fairly easily. I tell my girl friends all the time, you don't have to wait for a guy to make the first move, because sometimes a guy won't be able to tell you are interested in them unless you make the first move. Why pass up a great guy just because he doesn't notice you right away? All you have to do is make that first move and see how he reacts to it. Men have been doing this for many years, can't women return the favor?

Oh.. I absolutely LOVE the way your question is framed..

But to give you a more complete answer..

Here is WHY most guys don't approach girls anymore:

(Approach demotivation)

- after approaching girls several times.. men have come to realize that women are extremely insecure.. and the easiest way for them to validate their fragile ego is to just stand there and wait for the guy to make the move.. it's EASY to do.. because they don't really have to do anything.. while the guy is subjected to the risk of rejection and looking for signs of interest.. the girls is subjected to attention and his signs of interest in her.. most of the time, even if she is interested.. she does something stupid like get nervous and reject him.. simply because it's EASIER to do that and walk away with the self-esteem boost.. than complicate things and ruin a perfectly good ego-boost moment for herself..
- so the way guys see it is.. fcuk that.. if she's interested.. I'm a guy.. I don't have that complex or those issues.. if she wants to come over.. I'm either into her or not.. plain and simple.. so if I'm the one coming onto her.. it can take hours getting past her uncertainty crap.. if she's coming onto me.. we get right to the point in a fourth of the time..

(Courting demotivation)

- the major draw-back with the guy initiating (in the US) is that by virtue of initiating.. it presupposes that the guy is more interested in the girl than she is in him.. after all.. she has to this point DONE NOTHING.. whereas he has.. so on top of bearing the emotional risk.. the guy is expected to also bear the financial risk and act with "chivalry" (a term to which no female equivalent exists).. many guys have gone through the approach.. and been rejected during courting.. sometimes.. late during courting.. which makes them feel financially used or taken advantage of..
- so the way guys see it.. fcuk that.. if she's interested.. let her approach me.. and bear the emotional risk.. that way she DOES something to let me know she's interested in her.. if I'm interested.. then I WILL ASK HER OUT and pay for the first day.. to DO SOMETHING to show her that I'm also interested in her too.. if after our first date.. one of us isn't interested.. then we'll go our seperate ways.. and the risk we both took will be divided somewhat arguably fairly between us.. if we are still interested but not entirely sure.. then we'll continue to see each other while switching turns on who pays.. that way if things don't work out.. no ONE person is any more invested than the other.. so no ONE person has really LOST more than the other during the discovery of weather or not the interaction would lead to a relationship..

(passive-testing)
- the way guys see it.. a girl who would have a problem with this most likely wants to be treated like a princess and have the guy do everything while she does nothing.. so by him doing this.. he passively weeds those women out of his life..

none most girls are bitches, that's why. if I did make a move if would be if I only knew her well

Because we women have conditioned them that way. Yes, we have! Women are not scared to walk up to men now and ask for a date, or anything else. Guys have gotten a bit used to this. Also, women's roles are not the same. They have become more assertive and independent. This kinda shifts the dynamic a bit. Times are changing. I'm not sure what to make of it myself. Personally, I like it when a guy makes a move first. I'm a very modern woman, but when it comes to love and relationships I like it the old fashioned way.

I'll say this, and it might just be me. I have no issue approaching a guy, although I would rather a guy approach me. I mean if he'd rather sit and try and catch my attention from a distance I'll at least say hi and see what he might have wanted. But usually you'll just end up as a friend if you're just to afraid to approach me and I come to talk to you first. Especially if say I've run into you a few times and thats' what you'd rather do, have me approach you. If you have made eye contact with me then get off your butt and come say hello. I mean if I noticed you checking me out and breezed your way do something. I might stop and have a quick few words with you and go back to where I was. If you can't move to maybe try and keep up...you're bound to get forgot about aside from a hey if I see you some other night. It pretty much comes down to confidence. I have straight up asked some guys that I made the first initiative to talk to if they were afraid I would blow them off if the came over. If you're gonna wait for me to come to you then you will be asked. I'm pretty up front so I see no problem in asking that to someone I've noticed checking me out. But that's just my personality. That question has left a few guys a bit surprised, lol. It's not really something they were looking to have to answer, lol.

Honestly I think they are just getting lazier! Too many girls these days constantly do so much, try so hard, they just put all that extra effort now that guys are getting comfortable. I'm not saying a girl should NEVER make the first move but I think it's best if the guy does it. I know I will get a few thumbs down but I don't think it's wise for a girl to show that much interest up front it's just too much. How do you know if the guy isn't just going with the flow just because you asked? There are a few unsavory guys out there that may take advantage of the fact that she is sweating him so much. If he is that into me then he would eventually ask me out. If I have to do it I would be questioning that if I didn't ask, would we be together? So no I don't do it.