Will You Marry Me? And...Sign This Prenup?

just get her at a time when she's relaxed and in good humour- over dinner after work would be a good one. maybe cook her something simple like meatballs and spaghetti from scratch link and serve with light dessert if you like. If you never cook for her though, this is not going to work because she'll know somethings up. So only do that if you cook for her anyway. But defo mention it to her when she comes home from work when she's sitting down watching tv etc.

I'd do it soon too because you need to get it sorted. Maybe just start with a general conversation on marriage-on marriage, kids and money (using the types of questions I've given you a link to). when the pay-gap comes up, maybe mention the pre-nup thing then. It's a good way to initiate the conversation in a more natural subtle manner rather than saying "this is what I want and that's it", even though you should still keep your eye on what you want. If someone keeps complaining, a good tip is to say "Ok I recognise what you're saying but..." and then use the same statement like "i want to sort this out before the wedding" or "i want us to have stable finance" etc. Its called the broken record technique. Basically if you keep using the same words, she's more likely to back down. But stay calm all the way through-dont retaliate if she says anything, just listen because she'll calm down eventually (if she does get annoyed) and remain cool and collected. give her the week I mentioned. say that you're willing to compromise some things if she gets annoyed and see if you can work on that/discuss them with lawyer afterwards).

I think it would depend on the terms of the pre-nup. Has she been with you all through med school? What kind of wife will she be? Will she take care of you in every way but financially? I think a pre-nup is ok for people who are established and already have a marriage & kids behind them. But when you're young, building a life, a family, etc, I don't agree with it. I believe you are both building a life and estate TOGETHER and a pre-nup is not a good way to start building a life. The whole point in getting married is to have a LIFE PARTNER. She may not be contributing financially, but if she is doing everything to be a good wife, to be your helpmate, etc, she deserves to have some value assigned to that. I think for you to put all of your money where she can't touch it, except for the critical household funds, is ridiculous. Do you not trust her AT ALL? If that's the case, there is really no sense in even getting married. If you loved her, you would want her to feel like she is a part of your life...an IMPORTANT part. Unless she's proven to have issues with handling money, I think that part is WAY out of line.

This is one of those uncomfortable things that need to be discussed before marriage and kudos to you for thinking it through so well. Based on what you wrote and the feelings you two share, this should be just locigal sense. However, we woman can be emotional createres! LOL! Perhaps have a thrid party involved like a lawyer or counsellor. If the "logical" part of this comes from an "authority", (although you do want to disucss it with her personally too) she may accept it without feeling like your love is in question. From an outsider view, however, it does not appear that you are being foolish. Even the deepest loves break up for some reason sometimes and it makes sense to protect your assets. Good luck and let us know what happens.

I work at a family law firm (DIVORCE).
Believe me, if you have money... I sugget you get a pre-nupt.

Absolute trust is just plain stupid-trust to a certain point is fine. All romantic relationships are conditional-as they should be. My parents divorced so I now have a huge fear of marriage/divorce etc. It is enough to make me not marry at all. It IS justified. I just don't want to make that amount of committment to any one person. It's nothing to do with love. I have an enormous ability to love but boundaries are important-ie what you are prepared to accept/not accept. If you don't have this in relationships, you will probably end up being a doormat. I don't want to sign a legal contract binding me to someone (ie marriage) as I regard it as a legalised form of slavery. I'm not saying I would never consider it one day but I would extreme reservations about it. Not everyone needs to get married. There are alternatives like living together which can be considered. After a few years living with someone, you can be legally recognised as someone's "common law wife/husband". Its not marriage by any stetch of the imagination but it does give you some protection.

And who is to say the questioner will ditch the wife/run off with younger woman etc? That's all speculation and its unfair to diss someone you don't even know like this. I don't know him either but I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, rightly or wrong, and give him what I hope is constructive advice. I don't think the questioner is being a misogynist either. The only problem I have is that I don't think he actually wants the marriage, quite aside from financial arguments. Get the finances sorted-fine, that's easy. But make sure you actually want the marriage or else it is doomed. I have heard of many women issuing ultimatums and pressuring men to marry and stories of resulting unhappy marriages-but how could it be otherwise when someone was pushed into marriage against their will? If a woman had posted this question, few women would disagree so vehemently. But because its a man, people will jump on the bandwagon and say its chauvinistic when its actually not. Pre-nups are a good idea because some men and women are golddiggers. Look at Kevin Federline who married Britney Spears or Kerry Katona's scumbag husband. Or take ZsaZsa Gabor who said that she she got a house every time she divorced a man.

I have another option. Why not live with her for a few years until you are both around 28-30. You are way too young to consider marriage. This is probably why you're not overly enthused by it. Marriage involves responsibility and making sacrifices for other people especially if you have children. You can't be selfish with children! You have to give them your time. So it's a good idea to be selfish in your 20s and focus exclusively on what you want and then settle down in your 30s. Please ignore the negative comments. You are being pragmatic which doesn't sound appealing but its just the truth. Marriage is a leap of faith-it does not always work as statistics show. Go in with best intentions but if its not working, then accept that and move on.

Trust your gut instinct. Only marry if YOU want to get married, not because you're being coerced into it by a fiancee. If YOU do not get married, then consider just living together and making financial provisions and legal safeguards in other forms eg wills. If you decide to get married, draft a pre-nup. Show your fiancee, let her mull it over for a week then make a decision. If her demands are reasonable, then compromise will probably work. If she is being greedy, then please do not get married. You need to discuss some pre-marital questions [ link before you get married with your fiancee.

See, I think a pre-nup is something I would agree to. But ONLY if I were the one to suggest it... You get me? A pre-nup to me says either you don't see the wedding as being a marriage for life, or you don't trust me.

I am curious why you do not discuss what should happen in the case you decide to leave your wife through no fault of her own. So she has babies with you, spends her prime years with you and then all of a sudden you decide life is real good, you are tired of being married and want to trade her in for a younger girl? A lot of professional men do that. It does happen.

We fret so much over the consequences of the unknown
that sometimes we opt to retreat rather than to take risks.
Everyone experiences fear when they feel their safety and security
is under peril. Often this threat is only perceived and not realistic;
we indulge in fear of the unknown. In your situation- obviously you are worried about the "what ifs" of marriage. And- on an extremely negative scale!
It is common- because we ALL face fear of the unknown- We are only Human.

But- marriage is a commitment, a bond, and a un- separated love. You should NEVER get married if you are not 100% in love… hence the divorce rates being so high. Some guys (you are a great example), are only willing to get married to please the woman- perhaps so she doesn’t leave . You only wish to maintain that comfortability. After a long road with a woman in a relationship (yours being 6 yrs), this gets tough because there is usually always a commitment waiting. This is understandable from the woman’s perspective- but chances are- if you have not married her yet- you most likely don’t want to! Doing it to please her is never a good reason.

The thought of divorce should not arise in your thought process if . . .

A) You are REALLY in love with this girl and want to spend the rest of your lives together.
B) And if you really love this girl- you would not have to develop excuses in your mind to justify your soon to be behaviors that (which will effect her negatively) haven’t even occurred yet.

Lets break this down analytically...

You say you love her right?
If you really love her with all your heart, and you know she is unstable financially,
why would you even think of eliminating something that can help her, save her from difficulty in the future IF you both happened to divorce?

If you love her NOW – don’t you want her to be safe, happy, secure, comfortable etc. -whether it be now or years from now?

So why are you already thinking of ways to destroy her or take things away if the marriage doesn’t last?

WOW - I've just spend a couple of minutes reading up on all the other comments and your extensive justification for them...

A chinese proverb..."Fish live in vast sea as freely as birds fly in the boundless sky". The English tranlation is "Imagination is your only limit." You've obviously invested a great deal of time and energy figuring out how to justify your faulty logic when it comes to this relationship and what you are and are not willing to do within it. Is this REALLY what you want in a loving, committed marriage and in what should be the most rewarding and EMOTIONAL relationship you'll ever have?

Being clever isn't doesn't necessarily mean you'll be happy. I am envisioning you as a sad little man...no matter what you actually look like.

Challenge your initial premise - get some therapy.

WOW - what an offer. You don't sound manipulative, greedy or self-centered at all. You sound just like the man a women dreams of! Let's see...when I grow up - I want to marry a man who will not be particularly interested in buying the cow since he's drinking the milk...I want a man who is unwilling to share a full relationship with me on the basis that if things go wrong I don't want to have to support the person...When I grow up I want a man who will devalue the relationship before it even starts - and who will be tricky enough to circumvent the law on marriage on the basis that he never felt compelled to 1) be married in the first place and 2) has so little idea of what cherishing another person means that he's making it abundantly clear that he doesn't really want to do it...but golly I guess if I do...I'll make sure my good lawyer buddy helps me figure out how I can always be in the "win" category of screwing her first.

Your last statement sums if up pretty well for me...she shouldn't get married to YOU. Could you send me her phone number so I can let her know what a f***ing asshole you really are?
You obviously are a very clever dude - so clever you are too intellectual to HAVE a relationship. Please NEVER have children - or better yet - be a Darwin candidate.

And finally - if she wrote YOUR question about you while trying to decide if you were worth her time and effort...WOULD YOU FEEL CHERISHED, RESPECTED OR IN LOVE? I'm disgusted you fooled a medical school into accepting you because you obviously have a sociaopathic personality. Get a life!

sometimes trust doesn't always work out. but I'm sure there's a prenupt where she gets to keep what's hers now and then whatever you make during hte marriage you split. but if she makes a lot more then maybe you should just sign it. if you don't hink anything thing will ever happen, then you don't have to worry about what happens with her money in case of a divorce.

This breaks my heart. And this is exactly why Americans have one of the highest rates of divorce! Our values are so mixed up. Marriage was created to be the greatest and strongest bond one could experience.

I don't agree with living together before marriage (studies have proven that those who live together before marrying are more likely to divorce- it's true), but it shoes that you don't value the sanctity of marriage. Yeah, I'm old school (and people will vote down my comment), but I believe that marriage is "until death do us part". If you're worrying about protecting your assets, you don't truly trust her, but you also don't have 100% faith in your future marriage.

If you were a multi millionaire who couldn't trust any woman, that's one thing... but c'mon! You're still a resident. If you're going to make the woman you love (and who has lived with you 6 YEARS without a marriage commitment) sign a piece of paper that ruins the beauty of marriage, you don't deserve her or the experience. Marriage means trusting the person with your heart and future... 2 things you obviously can't bear to abandon.

It just seems to me that you're doubting that you two will last, which you probably won't if you have doubts. Trsut her, trust your love and get on with it. I can ensure you you will be happier (if you truly love her) married.

I'm a girl and I believe a pre-nupt is a GREAT idea! You should tell her it has nothign to do with her but somthing you just feel like you want to do. Just in case. If she gets all emotional than that's her fault. If you cave in now when you're married she'll do the whole blackmail/emotional thing to get whatever she wants and your money. She'll make you feel bad the whole time and insist that you buy her a new car, or a new boat or whatever to keep her happy because of somthing you did 'wrong', which if she loves you enough to marry you she WONT do. She'll understand

I don't know about the laws in your state about common-law, but I do know here in Canada, if you live common-law for a certain period of time (a year I believe) then it's treated as a marriage and assests are divided anyway. So maybe you should look into that- you might lose anyway. As for her being manipulative and guilt-tripping you- it doesn't sound like to me you're cut out for marriage if you think your girlfriend being hurt by the fact that you're going into marriage thinking of divorce is manipulation- maybe it's just how she feels, it's certainly how I would feel. It seems a bit mercenary and materialistic.

I was shocked that you would say if you asked her to sign one she would start with her emotional blackmail/manipulations routine & she obiviously needs a sense of financial security and stablility!

She has a degree and a job, that in itself is stability, maybe not on a Dr's level, but its stable.

I don't think the question should concern a pre-nup it should be why you would even consider being with someone you have so little respect for? You stated you did not need to marry, so don't. Let her find someone who will cherish, respect, and appreciate her.

If I have spoken out of turn forgive me, but marriage is an adjustment when you are in love, imagine what it would be for you.

Good Luck

If you love her and she wants to get married, then you should want to get married for her sake (as long as you're merely neutral on the issue). Especially after six years. The good thing is that you seem to have already figured this out, so kudos to you!

As someone who will inherit a reasonable sum of money from her parents after marrying, I say that pre-nup/other arrangement would be best. If she loves you, truly, then she may be hurt but eventually she'll understand. It's a requirement you're making in order to do what she wants. it's a good compromise.

I think you should forget the idea of marriage. Not because of any "selfishness" on her part, but because you simply have the wrong mind-set to get married to anyone. Marriage is challenge enough without coming into it seeing it as you clearly do. I think (just my opinion) that you are setting yourself up to fail. Clearly you DON'T trust her, nor do you love her enough to take this sort of risk. (Be honest with yourself.) She isn't being manipulative in wanting marriage or in being upset that you don't want what she does. She's responsible too, though, in agreeing to live in a semi-married state for 6 years without an actual committment. If she wants to be married, she should look elsewhere...from a man who won't see it as a situation in which he has nothing to gain and everything to lose. If this is where you are, it's where you are. You just shouldn't be getting married is all. Marriage often entails opening yourself to enormous risk, emotionally and financially. That's why they have the whole "better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health" part. And that's the point of the committment; it means that you won't just "walk away" if you wake up not "feeling it" one day. Don't do it. Not if you feel this way.

You two live together? Do you pay all the bills? It seems to me that you have been together during most of the time that you have been working towards your career. I can understand a pre-nup when you created wealth before meeting your spouse. But to act like a partner and spouse has nothing to do with giving us the opportunity to achieve our career goals doesn't match reality. Further, there is the concept that if together you have a certain lifestyle, and I have no doubt for a long time that lifestyle has been filled with frugality and lack of time together due to the demands of your career, and that a spouse should not be penalized and have their lifestyle seriously diminished while the other is rolling in the dough. What if you tire of her in 10 years after you have kids and you decide you want someone new. That isn't her fault. And since she has no say in requesting to stay in the marriage, she will suffer the consequences of your actions without any recourse. If I were her, I would look for someone else. I certainly wouldn't have children with you and live out the better years of my life with you only to have you decide one day you are tired of me, want all the money for yourself and perhaps my chances for marriage are now limited.

I think your idea is awful and this is coming from a woman who has to pay alimony and child support to her ex-husband, not one who is receiving it.

Honestly, I don't think you should get married to someone who you think would emotionally blackmail and manipulate you for wanting to protect your assets.

I read through all the responses on here that were said and there is only one thing shows as plausible. Setting up said trust seems to have come to mind once only once it was decided to marry her to make her happy. Which could also be the reason for her feelings(or as you call it emotional blackmail). So you want to find away to discuss said prenups. Well what you offer is, I am keeping everything of mine separate from what will ever be ours together, which by the way doesn't make anything you contribute to the marriage greater than hers, because only hers will be what is considered martial property. So her contribution is more than yours(since that seems to be of great concern). So in approaching that while topic with her, try sitting just down with her and telling her how you see it. That you have nothing to gain from marring her, but that you want to marry her because it is what she wants and you want to give her that. Tell her you understand her obvious need of financial security. Let her know she is more than welcome to enjoy what you make while she is with you. And when she gives you a reaction based on her feeling you can tell her to stop with the emotional blackmail/manipulation routine. Let her know that if anything in the relationship changes the way you don't like it you are more than likely to walk or find someone that makes you happy, hence the reason you want nothing of yours to be considered martial property because any infidelity on your part makes a prenup void of all meaning so if you have a trust in place to prevent that so you can do whatever you want. Honesty is always the best policy. I mean at least she then knows how you feel about the whole matter. Oh and don't forget to tell her that you are being flexible and giving her a choice in the matter.

after reading this whole thread, I think it's safe to say that you know how the game works

i'm not going to try and emotionally blackmail you, or try and make you feel guilty in the hopes that you'll give in and agree to what the group is saying. it's pretty clear you understand enough about group psychology and sociology to be immune to such modes of persuasion

i actually agree with you

i may not want to admit it as a woman, hence replying anonymously, but marriage isn't exactly all about love. yes, part of getting married is financial security. if you take that away from the deal, then there's really no point in getting married. you're right, without the financial aspect, there's no difference between being married and unmarried. are you happy now?

if both people made the same money, their incentives are the same. but the second there's an imbalance of financial power, interests change. this isn't a male/female issue. this is a stronger/weaker issue. the person who is financially weaker will obviously want to feel a sense of financial security from the person who is stronger. look at k-fed and britney! it's not just women who do this. plenty of men who make less manipulate women who make more into getting married and exposing themselves financially without the legal protection of a pre-nup

i agree that you're being smart and doing what's in your best interest. and it's not right for anyone to try and manipulate you through personal attacks or emotional blackmail, just so you can do something that's not in your best interest. you've invested hard work in life and sacrificed having fun during your younger years so that you could make yourself into a valuable earning asset. you're absolutely right, it's not fair that someone who hasn't done than get to enjoy the benefits of your hard work.

but if you agree with that, and we're both in agreement so far, you have to consider things from her point of view too

for whatever reason, she's not a doctor. she's not as valuable of an earning asset as you are. for as long as you are together, I would imagine she gets to enjoy the benefits of the financial security you can provide. but the issue for both of you is "what happens if we are no longer together?"

from her pov now, she's invested 6 years into you and god only knows how many more years while being married to you. if she gets divorced when she's older, and possibly with kids, it's nearly impossible to find someone who will want to marry her. the reason she is getting angry and defensive when you bring it up is because if you are protected and safe, that means she isn't. that means if 10 years down the line you run off with the new hot resident or nurse and leave her alone, she's screwed. she's used to a lifestyle of being with you that she can no longer afford to live by herself, and that's not fair to her.

that's just something to consider in your quest to give her choice in this whole matter.

See girls this is why you must get educated, and do your best to get beyond men :)

Hm, well I'm with you on marriage not being necessary to "prove" you love each other. I've always viewed marriage as something that makes dealing with legal matters easier. Being a common law partner works, but only well if you've been together for a long time and even then you can run into obstacles. A relative of mine lived common-law with her "husband" for over 30 years and when he died she had a hell of a time with his assets and their bank accounts because they didn't have a marriage certificate. I know he wouldn't have wished that sort of hassle on her, especially while she was grieving.

The way you described your relationship it doesn't sound like you want it to end, nor do you think it will end anytime soon. I think you need to get that across to her. You need to let her know that the chances of you splitting up are next to nill, but this is only a precaution and will make things easier on both of you to move on if it ever came to that. You really need to reassure her that this is something you don't want to happen. It's like making up a will. You don't want to die, but it's smart to have one just in case.

I think the hostility she has towards you when you bring it up is that she feels like you don't trust her. That you think she would be the type of person to manipulate you and not play fair. I'm not exactly sure why you want to do this as I don't really feel like it's necessary. I feel like if you're going to spend a lifetime with someone that you will share your lives with them. If you're married for 30 years and then you decide to get a divorce, I think that everything you have is yours together. The money, the assets, all of it. You will have bought a lot of things together and you can't label it as mine and yours because it's both of yours together. No one should get more than the other, but for 30 years it would deserve a fair split. And then you would move on and any future income would be yours alone. But that's just my opinion.

Jeez, your getting so ahead of yourself. Why are you even assuming she would want your money if things ended, not all women are out to gain money from their ex spouse after seperating. Just sit her down and say exactly what you put in the description above, there really is no best approch to this other than being honest with her. If she doesn't agree, than just move on.

Well it kind of sounds like..well when this fails I don't want to have to owe you anything. If you are going to marry her, there are things she will be doing that you won't. So toss out the money factor. Say you are both make the same amount. There will be more contributions made by her by way of things done in the home, i.e. she has 2 jobs. One that pays and one that doesn't. If you have children with her. She will be doing most of what goes along with that. She will throw her body through all of that for the both of you. Already you are doing less than her. So you can't really say she will be contributing was less than you. You have to include all factors in that. You are only looking at the money aspect. And solely that aspect. You don't even want to get married. Getting married is something you would do to just appease her. Not a valid reason. So basically you are wasting her time. You have no plans on wanting to anytime soon, except to make her happy. So you aren't really ready for that type of commitment. Yes, it's true that in America most marriages fail. But generally people take marriage very one sided. What do I get? What do I gain? Marriage is a partnership not just one person. You're stuck on the me so you really shouldn't be getting married anyways. Thus you have no need to be planing out a pre-nup.

This is never going to fly with her. No matter what you do she is going to get hurt. She just invested 6 years into a relationship with a man who is now asking her to sign a prenup? Either you will end things with her and she will be devastated, or you will bring up the idea of a prenup and she will be devastated. If you feel you have no gain from marrying her, than you obviously don't love her that much. You may believe you do, but it is clear that you don't. You are already thinking about your money over her. I think you know in your heart you won't be spending the rest of your life with her, and if that's how you feel, do not marry her. This is a woman who will one day mother your children. The woman who will be there for you from the moment she says "I do". The woman who was there throughout your schooling, and I am sure has encouraged you since day one...and you really have the nerve to ask for a prenup? I am not her but I can tell you that would be the most insulting thing a man could ask a woman. You know her for 6 YEARS. This is not some fly by night girl you met in Vegas who your about to marry in a side road chapel. This is someone who you spent almost a decade with. There is no way she is going to agree with this. When you marry, you do it for life. If you are already thinking about a prenup it goes to show your not in this for life. No couple I know has ever signed a prenup, and the only time I have heard of people signing them is when one spouse makes far more than the other. I noticed the money is getting to your head so soon, but let me tell you that money is not your friend it is your enemy. Asking for the prenup will prove that.

Honestly, your best interest would be not to marry her. Things come naturally when you love someone. Do not marry her just because she wants to. You need to sit down and really think about this by leaving your money and assets out of it and thinking about what YOU want. Asking for a prenup will ruin your relationship with her FOREVER, just remember that.

Instead of already assuming the marriage won't work and looking into ways to protect your assets, I think you need to slow down and do some major soul searching. If you are considering marriage just because your girlfriend has always wanted to get married, that is not a good reason and it probably will fail. Since you are asking the question, "what will I gain from marriage?" you may not even want it at all. It's better to be upfront with her about this and discuss it together, before it's too late and 3 years down the line you are going through a divorce. Find out why she wants to get married, and don't assume that it is primarily for financial security. It is 2009, and most women have moved beyond that. Also, if that is her main reason for wanting marriage, you should reconsider your relationship.

I agree that you must think logically- but if you really loved her, your emotions would naturally come into play, and it wouldn't be all about money just like everything else. I don't think its healthy to think about things on either a purely emotional or purely logical level- there should be a balance between the two. I know it is a reality in today's world that you need to think about what will happen if it doesn't work out, but you are focusing way too much energy on this. How about figuring out how to make it work instead?

This could break up your relationship. You both need to compromise. Don't forget to be flexible because she is not going to like this.

You should always act to please yourself. This doesn't mean being selfish per se. You may not want to get married, but marring the woman you love makes her happy, which makes you happy.

Now, if she really loves you, she'll sign the pre-nup, no questions.

If she starts the blackmailing option, because she's a money-grabbing status wh*re she'll say something like this: "Why do we need a pre-nup? I love you and will never leave you!"

You retort "Then it isn't a problem that you sign it, as it will never be used. Shit happens - and it's covering you as well I might add"

If she continues to pester you about it, get rid of her before you lose your assets and a chunk of your soul to her.

Look at it this way, a Prenup is simply insurance. You buy house insurance, and hope to never have to use it. A prenup really just gets everything straight legally. . .You can always choose to have the pre-nup dissolve after 10,15,20 years or whichever. . . But, pre nup is not setting yourself up for failure, its a smart financial decision for both of you and a smart decision for your marriage. . . You guys can plan, if there were divorce even being talked about, you can agree that you do 400 hours of marital counseling before you are able to legally get a divorce. . . and you can be specific with everything... I would google the benefits of pre-nups, I did before and it really opened my eyes to the idea and also gave me some relief knowing all of the different options that I can include within it. . . If you haven't discussed it with your partner yet, I would just research it before you do so, so that you sound confident in what it stands for and assure her that it isn't something that says 'I don't want to get screwed over in case of divorce' . .. but, in reality, that is what it is. . .It is a document of marital insurance.

Mate, I've read so much of the replies and comments and you know what?

Just tell her marriage isn't your thing.

Tell her you want to make her happy and that is the only reason you've considered marriage so much.

Tell her how it is: Sign a prenup or forget the whole deal, because as far as you are concerned the relationship works great as it is.

Chances are she'll be a bit of a typical western pampered princess and throw a strop. She either stays or she leaves but at some point you just gotta shrug it off and accept that it isn't meant to be.

I could love a woman allot but I am not going to be manipulated, you shouldn't;t feel compelled to either.

prenup

If love knows no bounds, how can one ask another for a pre-nup? A pre-nup is for someone who does not trust another and hense without trust there can not be love and should never be a marriage.

Ok, I understand you two are just starting your lives together. THAT MEANS YOU ARE POOR AS CRAP AND HAVE NOTHING TOGETHER. What do you not understand? You are both equals financially. If you were older and one had a lot more wealth than the other, I could see protecting your assets. That;s not the case with the two of you. Next, why should you get married. The answer...Because you don't want your children to come into the world as BASTARDS. By getting married, you are declaring her is your wife and the children as yours. Should something happen to you and you die, it would mean they have legal rights to claim your estate. So now, here is the big question? Do you really love her or are you just screwing her over?

That's a tough one dude. Neither one of you is wrong, you just have different interests in mind; however, it clearly sounds like you are not interested in marriage at all. May I ask what it is that you don't like? Marriage should always be a mutual thing. If you don't like the title, then don't get married. It's that simple. Now granted, sometimes sacrifices should be made as well. For example, you're sacrificing your ideals for her sake, so perhaps she should disregard her judgment and do something for you (ie. sign the pre-nup). I think this is a fairly valid argument, so I would definitely pass it by her. If I was to do anything, I would just let her know that you love her very, very much and your only qualm with marriage is the logical point of it (which I might add is perfectly acceptable); yet you will get married because she enjoys the thought of you two being married together. As a result, maybe she can sign this pre-nup for your sake. Don't get me wrong, I personally disagree with you and really putting all your possessions on the line is the ultimate test; yet, what is a possession but a possession? They're just things and that's it.

Bottom line man, re-assess what you guys have in common and what you don't. If she's prone to blackmail you (perhaps inadvertently), then maybe it's not the best idea to get married at all. Even though you've been together six years, you never know if someone is out there that's even better for each of you. Sorry that my response has been fairly redundant, but I hope it brought you some thought. Best of luck!

First things first, the pre-nupt...

There is nothing wrong with creating a pre-nupt so long as it covers your assets previous/after the marriage and not the mutual wealth youve accumulated while together. I.E - Protect your current assets and your salary pre-marriage.

The best way I believe in dealing with money is simple. You pool your money together.

You put a percentage into your retirement fund from the pool.
You put a percentage into a savings account from the pool to cover any unanticipated expenses.
Pay your mortgage, heating, electricity and such from the pool.

Finally you divide the remaining amount equally between the two of you to do with as you please. You should have your pre-nupt cover any items purchased with your own allowance but its not vital.

The most important thing for you to protect is of course your salary aft marriage.

Second thing, marriage...

Of course you do not need to get married but marriage is much more the legal documentation meant to solidify the relationship. If this is all you think it is then you will be unhappy to know that after a set amount of time living with someone your considered legally married by the government anyway.

Marriage is a symbolic gesture of pure intent. It a physiological reinforcement for most women. Telling a girl you don't intend to marry them is like building a house on a foundation of sand. Its unstable and you never know when things will collapse. To the majority of the female population marriage, controversial to what you think, is a necessity.

I don’t understand why you think your being flexible when you say you're willing to marry her if it makes her happy. I think your being stubborn and she is the one being flexible. She is the one waiting in anticipation of a proposal for… 6 years?!?

Conclusion…

The pre-nup is acceptable in my opinion. Whether she takes it that way I don’t know but I really don’t see that as a sign of distrust. Like I commented to someone who said differently; if I'm healthy I shouldn’t invest in medical insurance? No, you get it incase god-forbid things do take a turn for the worse. Things happen.

Chance your mind-set to the whole marriage thing. She’s the one being flexible and hoping for the best while you take an elongated amount of time to come to your senses.

MY opinion, not yours.
Cheers.

My brother married last year. Their oldest kid was 6 then. (the youngest 4)
No reason to get married since there seems to be a certain lack of trust as to the future of marriage.
No reason to get married but for your children.
But you know each other since 6 years. Time enough to know if you can trust each other or not. Time enough to know if you can discuss the exact conditions of a prenup, hers or yours or a combination of both.
You seem to be in love, but realistic.
Who could determine what's best better than you? One of the members here, not knowing you or her? I doubt it.
Certainly not me. (I'd discusss her proposed prenup as first option, vote A)

PS, don't tell I told you but you could park the construction in a "tax friendly" State (DEL) or country (Virgin Islands, Bahamas, Lichtenstein, Vanuatu, Channel Islands, Gibraltar, there are many more of them -- avoid Switzerland!)

PPS, Highschool teachers can be wonderful people: I married one.

Best wishes!

Mate, you are looking at this too black and white.

It's simple...
Do you love her?
Does she love you?

Now if you answered yes to both of them you need to tell her straight that you see marriage as less a public sign of affection like she undoubtedly sees it as and more another way to throw your money away and possibly increase your expenses in the future.

To be honest if you are this worried about it then you obviously already have doubts the marriage is going to work.

My sister and Brother-in-law have been together 10 years, of which they've been married 3. My Brother-in-law owns everything but my sister and him did not agree on anything and you can call him foolish if you like but he is not.

The way he sees it is the way I see it. He loves her and he would do anything for her. They didn't have to get married but it's every little girls dream to one day marry and every woman grows from a little girl.

Yeah if you broke up in the future you'd not lose all your finances, etc...

No offence but I think you are treasuring your personal wealth and assets far too much. It is meant to be about the two of you and not what the two of you have between you.

Sure you're the breadwinner and you could stand to lose a lot of money if it did turn sour but you should be going into it thinking, "it won't go sour" and even if it did, you know that she is secure and looked after. The last thing I'd want to think is my ex was out in the gutter somewhere.

If you're not ready to marry, just tell her how you feel... if you are then surprise her... not with a pre-arranged pre-nupt but a simple dinner, a chat about your future and how you both feel about where you are both going... then propose to her with a nice ring.

No matter what you decide in the end, I wish both you and your girl the very best. Hope all goes well for you...

This sounds like a scenario in Game Theory. This won't help you; but it might help other high earners who are single and concerned about protecting their assets. If you realize that (A) love inhibits the abilities of most people to think rationally, and (B) money changes people's incentives; then you need to take the money out of the equation and make the decision before you fall in love. You could set up a contract with a third party (before you meet your partner) which states that "in the event that you fail to set up a pre-nup to protect those all of those assets before you marry, those assets will be given to that third party" or to a charity or whoever, just so long as neither of you get those assets. Even better, make it an anti-charity. If you're anti-gun, have it go to the NRA. If you’re pro-life have it go to Planned Parenthood. Now not getting a pre-nup becomes a moral dilemma for you. And their choices become "you, the pre-nup, and the money" or just you minus the money.

frankly speaking , you are selfish person ,if the girl whom you love know all this she will hate u? not only this girl no girl will marry if you are intentions are known .marriage means sharing happiness , sorrow, ...everything not only money. may GOD bless u

I think everything that needs to be said has been said at some point, but just to cast my vote in words.

Agree on a prenup.

If she says it is horrible of you to think of a prenup because it is imagining the possibility of a divorce, it is just as bad to refuse to sign one for the same reason. It is hypocritical.

Protect yourself, there are too many dishonest people out there. This is a case where there are no losers. You aren't taking anything of hers away, just preventing her from taking what you earn if she decides to leave.

It may seem destructive to someone thinking about it emotionally, but logically, it is the best decision (or the LLC, but that is unnecessary if you 2 can agree on terms)

If marriage is something you have discussed before then you make sure she will be fine with pre nuptial agreements and if its a surprise thing then there's nothing wrong with being engaged and discussing these legal things and small print as it is only a step towards marriage and not a binding contract.
I am sure as two mature professionals in careers that need sensible approaches you can both settle on an agreement.
Some people may think you are preparing for divorce before you have a ring on her finger and that it is a pessimistic move but I believe in protecting yourself because it saves regrets later on.
It may not sound like a romantic movie but I was sat with my fiancée and a solicitor the day before we said I do.
This isn't a soap opera girls, divorce is a possibility so it's best to be insured against being taken for a ride as so many guys are (sorry but the guys usually are the ones who are screwed by the courts decision, fact).

Back in the old days, women were considered to stay at home, clean, and watch the babies. Men would do the work, and provide sole income.. this is why they ordered for alimony and all that crap. nowdays, women are working, and make as much as men do, and can support them selves... the roles of a husband and wife are completely interchangable now.. the dad can be the stay @ home mom while she works, or they can be equal income contributions.. nevertheless, almony laws are really no longer needed.. bring this up to her & explain, that without a prenup, the playing field just isn't fair.. it's not fair for women to work for a living, bring home 30K a year, and on top of that, another 5K a year in ex husband expenses

.. Put it to her this way... a prenup is a legal document that says "You leave with what you came with."

As your wife, wouldn't she own half of the rights to the trust?

Your not giving her choice. Your only worrying about yourself and trying to save your own ass.

Yes you have money and a considerable amount of property that is yours. But marriage isn't about that. Hell marriage shouldn't be about that. It's about commitment. What's yours is hers, and what's hers is yours. Even if your assets are greater than hers. It does not matter. You let money and property delude your sense of what a marriage is all about. Is that that truly love? I don't think it is, no matter what you say to convince yourself it is.

I'll give you this. Yes I do agree that divorce is crap. And it's a pain, especially when it comes to calculating income and who gets what. Usually, men get the shaft. And women get more out of a divorce than the man. I do believe that to be true. But what I do also believe, is that sometimes people get married for the wrong reasons. Or sometimes, they don't even realize what they are marrying.

But your case should be different. 6 years you've been together and yet your sounding more like your attorney than you are a boyfriend. Hell a loving boyfriend for that matter. The fact is, I think you've lost sight of what marriage really should mean. You are not ready for marriage. Sadly, your girlfriend is, but she's about to realize your true selfish nature. I suspect momentarily you'll be single.

Your marriage has a 50% chance of failing and that's a pretty big gamble to take with half of what you own, considering women file for more divorces than men do. Take this attitude for example:

"She just invested 6 years into a relationship with a man who is now asking her to sign a prenup?"

See, for this type of person, dating someone is just an investment and they expect a return on their investment when they can divorce the guy for all he's worth. Whenever you date a woman, if you hear her complaining about these contracts that deny them access to other people's property, run for the f***ing hills.

Just have tell her why you want her to sign it, by the way if you live in the same household for 7 years by law you are a "married" couple and you have to split everything two ways as if you were getting a divorce, this is in the US by the way.

I think this is a perfect example to all women of a guys mindset. This girl has given him everything without any real substancial committment and now he really has no reason at all to marry her. The only reason he's even considering it is because its important to her.
So to all you women, try thinking about this guys story.

Some choice, guy. It's a Hobson's choice.
Seems like your money is more important than the relationship.
Of course, you take a risk in a relationship; so does she. People change over time.
But, if you two make a promise to each other that divorce is not an option -- we can work it out.
"Murder maybe, but never divorce."
Then it shouldn't matter.

you're crazy...good luck getting that past her