Is chivalry a thing of the past?

I had a very interesting conversation the other day with a few guys and they all expressed on how they hate paying the bill and would appreciate it if the bill was split or the girl pays for everything.
I would like to hear more opinions from other guys. So gentlemen what do you think?


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Most Helpful Guy

  • I used to be gentlemanly like that but there were girls that saw it as an invitation to use me as an ATM on legs.

    I now think that both of you are taking a risk and not expecting anything to come of it, so paying for one's own is fairer.

    It's not a man's job to give girls all the food and drink they want to binge on in exchange for her company. His company and time is valuable, too.

    Women need to think of men as friends, companions, best friends, other halfs, etc. rather than people who will take care of them. History has been there already. Women didn't get much of a say, men were permitted to do what they liked and women were stuck at home most of the day, doing housework and feeding the kids and woe betide her if her hubby's food wasn't about to be put on the table when he got home from work!

    Thankfully all that is behind (most of) us. Now men and women have the opportunity to be a truly equal partnership with each having accountability and respect for the other, functioning adequately on their own but better together.

    I dread to think what would happen if two old-fashioned lesbians went on a date. Neither would pay the bill! Old-fashioned gay men would argue because both want to pay. Thankfully times have changed.

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    • 3mo

      Wait a second... all of that is behind us? I definitely will admit times have changed that sort of thing a little, but women still don't get equal pay for the same job. Also I have never known a case where caring for children is split 50/50. Usually one person ends up doing quite a bit more of the work. Sure sometimes it is the father, but more often I would say that isn't the case. Childcare is expensive and why would the man, who is likely getting paid more money for his job, put his career on hold to care for children?

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    • 3mo

      @justlilly women who take time out to have children take a hit as much as a man going on sabbatical. The impact on your career is the same. You fall behind.

    • 3mo

      @justlilly I thought it was common nowadays for the lower-paid of the two to look after the children or to hire a childminder. That's what happens in my family. My stepsister is a fund manager and her husband is a foreman, so he looks after the kids more than she does.

Most Helpful Girl

  • I think paying the bill should NOT be considered chivalery. It's just sexist. Everyone should pay for their damn food, you're both enjoying each others company you're not doing the other one a favour. It's just like some kind of prostitution in my opinion. Women shouldn't be paid to be someone's date.
    Chivalery should be only about manners and unfortunately that is pretty dead these days with both genders.

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What Guys Said 60

  • Well, first, true chivalry was a code only followed by knights - men who were knighted after proving themselves with service to a knight or knights (usually as a page, then a squire), a high level of skill with arms, and proven bravery in battle (or at least tournament mock battle). Not many knights in the US...

    But of course I know what you meant. And yes, chivalry is largely dead (except among small pockets of people), because feminism demanded that it be killed. The two have very opposite goals because they make opposite assumptions, and so they cannot co-exist easily.

    One of the reasons knights protected women and defended their honor is because women of those days were unable to do so themselves. Heck, women generally couldn't own land or stock, and had to be married (or from a very wealthy family) in order to "have" anything or wield any power at all.

    In modern terms, under chivalry, women wouldn't be able to work outside the home (or, could only do so in servant-type positions, for low pay and virtually no status), couldn't own property, couldn't vote, couldn't initiate legal proceedings, couldn't have a bank account, and would have zero say in the fate of her children (that would be her husband's role). To balance all of that, her husband would be responsible for her and her children - not just financially, but answerable for any of her criminal activity - and would be obligated to defend and protect her in very significant ways.

    There are still some women today who would (and have!) gladly adopted those rules in their own relationships - the man is solidly in charge but observes that "with great power comes great responsibility" to her.

    But most modern women are absolutely not willing to defer everything to a man - any man - and so by insisting on being responsible for herself, she's also taking on the responsibility for herself, and absolving men of any responsibility to her.

    You don't get to have it both ways...

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  • When it comes to money, me and my wife always split the bill evenly. The only exception is if either of us is treating the other for something like a birthday or a congratulatory meal.
    Splitting bills doesn't mean chivalry is dead though. A man paying a woman's way is just one form of chivalry. Personally I think it's wrong because there's an undertone that if you pay for something, you expect something in return, and I don't want a woman to feel in debt to me.
    However, I don't think chivalry is dead. I will still hold the door for my wife sometimes. I'll offer her my coat if she's cold. I'll make her breakfast in bed from time to time. I'll let her choose what to watch at the cinema. In my opinion, these are examples of chivalry.
    In modern society, and certainly in my relationship, the meaning of chivalry has changed, as has the role of the man. In the past, men were expected to financially provide for and look after their woman. Women were expected to emotionally support their man, and be subservient to them. Nowadays, men and women have equal opportunities and both are able to look after each themselves and pay their own way. That means that 'chivalry' or kindness is a choice that is made for the benefit of the other, rather than an expectation of both parties.

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  • I agree with them. Unless I explicitly and unexpectedly invite her somewhere, in which case I'd pay for both (which I have done), I'd prefer for the bill to be split (which we have also done once).

    And FYI, chivalry was about code of conduct in medieval combat, not about how men treat women. This "chivalry" never existed to begin with. But the chivalry as you understand it is indeed gone mostly. And rightfully so. It's the current century after all, time for women to experience "equality" as well.

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  • Interesting.
    Women demanded equal pay, equal rights in everything, which morphed into giving women unfair advantages to compensate somehow for past grievances, both real and imagined.
    Women told us that 'girls could to anything' and that 'a woman needs a man in the way that a fish needs a bicycle'.
    We were told that all sex was rape, so, by extension, all men were rapists.
    We were told that masculinity was 'toxic'.
    We watched women drink from mugs that bore the message 'I bathe in male tears'.
    We watched #killallmen spread across the planet like wildfire, as women hit the send keys on their telephones with glee.
    Then, we read that some women are upset when men think that women should contribute to the cost of a date.
    I find it darkly amusing, how women demand equality. . . until it comes to them reaching into their pockets, or doing something dirty, heavy, or dangerous. When those situations arise, some women bleat and moan about 'chivalry' and 'where are the good/real/nice men'.
    If you want to know where the good men went, the answer is as far away as possible from the women who ask that question.
    Why?
    See the above, plus what the fat Marxist Jew dyke Andrea Dworkin and others have had to say, see:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbzF-Q_ZEDg
    Put all men in concentration camps:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1JQUG7doCE
    Kill all men:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rog1si1SX5g

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  • People who assert that chivalrous conduct has its basis in sexism need to provide definitions of the terms "chivalry" and "sexism." Based on my understanding of those terms, their assertion is horse feathers.

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  • If money is the only way to show you if the guy's a gentleman, you're a gold digger, and certainly not a lady.
    Where the ladies at?

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  • 1. Paying the bills isn't the only thing that evinces chivalry 😊
    2. There are situations these days the girl gets offers & feels patronised if one holds the door open for her leave alone try & pay a. bill (has happened to me)
    3. Yes things changed on both ends but chivalry isn't dead for sure 😊

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  • I think we should treat all people with chivalry regardless of gender. However, expecting chivalry only from men, directed only towards women is outright sexism - especially when it comes at the cost of our wallets. Opening doors and pulling out chairs are one thing, but paying $50 for a meal with a girl that I just met, whom I might not even go on a second date with is just absurd.

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  • Well, we live in an era where women make their own money so they don't need men paying the full bill all the time. Splitting the bill or alternating paying seems pretty fair.

    As to wanting a girl to pay for everything? Well, I mean... I'd personally love to see women start approaching men at at least the same rate as men have to, but we all know that ain't happening. Same with women consistently paying the full bill.

    Beyond that, women aren't goddamn arcade machines. We shouldn't have to keep feeding them money to keep going. There shouldn't be an obligation to hold doors open for them and other various little things like this. You will also have feminists out there that will actually get angry if you even try to do stuff like this.

    If a guy wants to do these little favors, more power to them. However, they shouldn't be looked down upon for wanting to treat women like equals and not pseudo-children that need special treatment.

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  • Chivalry was about fighting and killing people so you can own and fuck women, sure it included things like holding the door, buying food, helping her board/unboard horses and carriages etc.. too but mostly it was about the fucking.

    Somehow that all changed from an exchange of "we risk our life to keep you safe and you give us sex" into "you give us free shit or we bitch about you being cheap"

    It's just another stupid fucking double standard that needs to finally die off, the only women who still want it are disrespectful cunts and the only men who do it are spineless white knights.

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  • That's not Chivalry and no it's not a thing of the past but people do greatly confuse what Chivalry is and what it is not.

    Chivalry has very little to do with women maybe a lines worth of stuff and that's it the rest is about a way of life about etiquette on and off the battlefield, manners and how to live the life of a knight, it's a code of honor as well as guidelines on how to act. With that being said yes I do practice it.

    What your thinking of is being a Gentleman which mostly has to do with the treatment of women and everyone one. But is also a code/guidelines as well.

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  • You confuse with being a gentleman, and if money is the only way to be a gentleman to you, then you are a goldigger.
    http://i.imgur.com/I9FCTWx.jpg?1

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  • I think that no matter if it's men or women, when someone is in a position of taking advantage, they will take it in conscious of subconscious manner. Generally speaking, women are selling in a sellers market, and since the demand outstrips the supply, they have the choice of demanding preferential treatment or she knows the next guy will. Men are doing the same thing in a increasingly noticeable scale in that refusing to settle down and playing the field cause the liberated women increased the supply against the more or less fixed demand. Since this is not a absolute frame of reference, and other variables are involved, until and unless all supply and demand are equalised after combining all force components, will people play nice.

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  • It is not dead, I'm here! 😊

    Seriously though, there are still chivalrous guys, you just have to look harder than you would have in the past. I would consider myself chivalrous, and I've seen a few guys on here who I would consider the same. The problem is that it so often goes unappreciated these days.

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  • I dont think it's dead, but the idea of a man having to practically worship a woman needs to go, so chivalry ain't dead, its just changing, and for a better and more equal version.

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  • Chivalry is just benevolent sexism, so I'm glad to see it gone

    Girls should sometimes take initiative and offer to pay for the entire meal instead of feeling entitled to free food just because they have a vagina

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    • 3mo

      I'm getting downvotes from entitled women who think they should get free food for having a vagina

      No, you do not deserve free food for having a vagina

      Get off your sexist high horse

  • I'm not someone who goes out of their way to be "chivalrous" but I will do things like holding doors open just out of common courtesy. Once I held open the door for two girls and they just burst into laughter and said something like "what a tool" in Korean. Oh well lmao.

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  • Well there's your problem... You don't know what chivalry is... Someone paying your bills isn't chivalry. Chivalry has to do with possessing courage, having honor, show courtesy, being just, and showing kindness and a willingness to help the weak. There are are still chivalrous men, but like any good knight they're ready to thrust a sharp sword their a medusa that wants to suck the life out of people.

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  • Paying for everything that a woman wants when she's sharing his company is NOT chivalry.

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    • 3mo

      Also worth mentioning, actual chivalric code advocated forcing their women to work 12 hour days doing manual labor so that they could prance around being knights, didn’t permit women to own property, and viewed women themselves as chattel. Legally, under the code of chivalry, a knight's ladies were also obligated to provide him with sex whenever he demanded it from them as part of the marital agreement.
      While the language of the Code of Chivalry may suggest that knights were meant to treat women courteously, what it really meant was that noblewomen were to be treated courteously. Common women, on the other hand? Well, here's a direct quote from Andreas Capellanus' 'The Art of Courtly Love': "If you should, by some chance, fall in love with some of their [peasant mens'] women... when you find a convenient place, do not hesitate to take what you seek and to embrace them by force." THAT was how chivalry worked. So really, girls, shouldn't you be glad that chivalry's a thing of the past?

  • Here's the thing. I think that society should stop telling guys that being a gentlemen will attract girls sexually. It may attract girls in a romantic way and increase the likelihood of them wanting to be your girlfriend, but it doesn't make them want to fuck you like so many seem to think. I find that most guys who act gentlemanly do so because they think that it will make the girl want to have sex when, in reality, all it's doing is showing her that he's good for commitment and resource, not fucking.

    I consider myself to be a gentleman, but at the same time I be sure to balance that with things I know turns the girl on. That way she's interested in me in both a sexual way and a romantic way.

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  • Chivalry is not a thing of the past, but expecting a man to pay for everything every single time is becoming a thing of the past.

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  • When you are young and on limited income, you should go 'dutch' as it is known, you share costs as equally as possible.
    These days both genders are equal, and should have equal rights and responsibilities.
    Chivalry is not the guy paying, but the guy having concern for his partner, or vulnerablw persons, pulling out chairs, opening doors, giving up his seat on public transport, saying after you. Just normal care and consideration for others around you!

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  • Not at all. I always think it is my responsibility to pay the bill. I am also curteous opening doors, pulling her seat out before she sits down, stuff like that.

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  • Women made a big stink about getting jobs and now they dont wanna spend any of the money they earned lol

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  • I don't mind paying for dates, but if the woman is earning a comparable salary and we're a couple, it's reasonable for her to pay her share. I hate splitting checks, so she should ask me out and pay sometimes. If I'm making a lot more than she is then it's fine if I pay most of the time.

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  • It is still alive and well with me. I just do not extend it to women whom I do not consider worthy. As a rule of thumb, if you are a feminist who does believe in abiding by your own gender's traditional standards, then you will not get even an iota of chivalry out of me.

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  • Chivalry is a characteristically chauvinist practice.

    When we as a society decided that we wanted women and men to have more equal roles, we gave up archaic things like chivalry.

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  • Blame women as they consistantly ask for guys to be the ones to pay it. Not every guy is going to let girls play the damsel in distress card.

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  • Not with me its not, i still hold my chivalry codes closely, yeah im more of a different generation so to speak but that won't let me stop myself from being me and won't make me leave my codes behind

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  • im guessing that older guys like me dont see it as dead and perhaps thats why so many younger women prefer older men

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  • More from Guys
    30

What Girls Said 22

  • No. Chivalry also doesn't need to be expressed through money. My boyfriend is at uni and doesn't have a income. I don't expect him to pay and neither does he. I usually end up paying for him. I believe he is still courteous, a gentleman and has chivalry, just in a different way.

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  • It definitely is, everyone will disagree with my opinion but I dont care. I like it when a guy pays, I think thats being a true gentleman - no that doesn't make me a gold digger, Im not asking him to buy me a house or a car. Its just coffee or a brunch. Obviously, after some time I would help chip in but I would expect my guy to pay for the both of us in the beginning. Unfortunately we live in a generation where a woman is called a gold digger just because she expects a guy to pay. Everything is COMPLETELY different now than it was 10 years ago. 10 years ago, this question wasn't asked so much.

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    • 3mo

      Girls quit acting like ladies a long time ago. Why should guys continue to act like gentlemen if girls aren't going to act like ladies?

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    • 3mo

      So your not like the other girls that think men should do everything in the relationship?

    • 3mo

      @cchris989 did you NOT read what I wrote? And anyway, I have nothing to prove to a stranger.

  • I think the expectation for men to pay on the first date is a bit outdated, considering that women work now. It's obviously a really kind gesture for a guy to insist on paying, but I think women need to go into dates with the intention of splitting the bill. On regular dates, it makes sense for couples to switch off paying.

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    • 3mo

      Only makes sense to pay for the other if it's no longer casual but exclusive. When it's casual each person pays for themselves. After becoming exclusive pay for each other, work as a team etc.

    • 3mo

      @TheEnd2 With this, I agree.

    • 3mo

      Asking someone out and then expecting them to pay is where the problem lies. Women don't ask men out anyways so there always gonna have that expectation.

  • I don't believe chivalry is dead!
    I know there are good men out there who are taught respect and treat a woman so. The same goes with females aswell though. It goes both ways.
    As long as us as generation Y continue to use manners and be thoughtful of other than no. It isn't dead!

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  • I prefer paying for my own. I don't like for anyone to pay for me. I've had this conversation with friends or family who take me out and want to pay the bill. I definitely don't expect a guy to do it. For me, it's just that I had to learn from a very early age to take care of myself. My mother was a single mother, and most of the time she wasn't even around. We had to learn to be self-sufficient, and when I was old enough I started babysitting until I could get a real job. I've had it in my head for so long that I need to pay for myself, or do things for myself that I get irritated when people want to help. I know they mean well, but if I truly need help, or if I want someone else to pay the bill I'd bring it up myself.

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  • I think the guy should always pay for the first date. Period. Beyond that switching it up back and forth shows mutual respect. As for shivalry as a whole, I don't think it's dead at all. Holding doors, being served first and other courtesies are always expressed by my my guy and ALWAYS appreciated by me.

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  • OMG, I hope not! After growing up rather Tomboyish, I really enjoy a being treated all girly!! My guy knew me when I lived to play sports of any kind, when I'd go to great lengths to compete and beat the guys, most of all him! He's also told me how much he loves the fact that one day I hung up my cleats, bat and glove to be very much a girl. (I'm still a sporty girl too.). I also love him being chivalrous, opening doors though he knows I'm perfectly capable, lifting heavy boxes I could lift myself, picking up the tab when he knows I would pay for us both; to me it demonstrates the value he places on me and our relationship. He knows I'm not weak, he knows I work hard to help us afford some of the extras our college funds don't quite cover, he also knows that showing ones love isn't all kisses and hugs. We both know his chivalry is one of the best forms of foreplay there is!! = } especially since I know that's not his motivation in the first place. = ]

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    • 3mo

      Choosing the way we wanted be treated is wishful thinking at best :/

    • 3mo

      @cchris989
      Interestingly enough, you totally missed the point. I'm saying chivalry is alive and well in my guys heart, that his motivation is not just to get into my panties, he does little things for me all of the time out of his loving heart. I never chose or made him treat me this way, it's all his idea alone. He was raised to treat the women in his life with respect nothing wrong with that. Acts of service just happen to be one of his love languages, I'm totally grateful to be the recipient of his chivalrous acts.

  • I thought chivalry was about manners, like holding doors open and that sort of thing.
    And when it comes to the bill, bloody hell just split the goddamn bill or pay for what you ate and be done with it. And if someone insists on paying for the bill, then they can do that too.

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  • I'm a girl, but I want to get this out there that chivalry is not dead and should not die. Men should always stay as gentlemen. However, when it comes to paying the bill and stuff it should be split. Men should be equal to women but always stay gentlemen.

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    • 3mo

      Women quit acting like ladies a long time ago. Why should guys continue to act like gentlemen if girls aren't going to act like ladies?

    • 3mo

      @TheEnd2 well then they should find ladies. ladies need gentlemen or ladies and gentlemen need ladies or gentlemen. everyone else can be with themselves.

  • I'm not a guy but I would say that chivalry isn't dead, but it definitely has died down from older days. However I do know quite a few guys who keep chivalry alive.

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  • I think it should be a split or based on incomes. My ex boyfriend would pay for dinner and id pay for the activity to do before or after (or the other way around). One person shouldn't be responsible for paying everythinv.

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  • I think you are supposed to treat the physically weaker nicer lol
    Im not a feminist but more like a social egalitarian and I still really really want a good guy

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    • 3mo

      Physically weak? Show me a bill gates type of women that has created something new that the whole world benefits from?

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    • 2mo

      Lol I don't think anyone has ever taken someone advice over the Internet so your waisting your time.

    • 2mo

      @cchris989 same could be said to you sweety.

  • I agree with the guys. I pay for meals putting etc. I work too. Why should I expect the guy to pay for all.

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  • YES cuz equality

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  • I think who ever asks the other out should pay, or if they should switch off who pays each date (if going on multiple dates with eachother) I wish there was more chivalry in the world, but it sadly is a dying thing.

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  • Chivalry just seems like an excuse for men to do everything.

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  • what's wrong with splitting bills?

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  • yes guys are retards with way too much pride (pride my ass hahaha)

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  • For me when o was with my ex I paid for everytning on our dates (I paid for me and him) because he didn't have a job and I usally pay for my stuff I don't expect anyone else to and tbh I treat everybody guys or girls nicely and I hold doors open for everyone. But yeah I agree it's hard to find chivarwly now

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  • Guys think that we should split the bill

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  • No I'll keep it alive. That motherfucker Will hold the door for me and pay for my bill or I'll leave.

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    • 3mo

      Ok, adiĆ³s

    • 3mo

      I heard cats are on sales buy one get ten free, I believe it's called the old cat lady give away.

    • 3mo

      @cchris989 ccccooooolllll. Sign me upper. Best news I've heard all dayyyy. Listen and listen good... I will die alone before I lower myself to BS. Have a shitty day! 😎

  • Only on GaG.

    Married couples may do things more evenly but in the dating phase it's still expected to a degree in real life. Those guys that complain they want the woman to pay for the date, would they still be expecting her to smash after that? Free food and a fuck but would they give her the gratitude of a phone call the next day? Nice try boys. Doesn't happen in real life unless the woman is a cougar and a good night and a good fuck is all she's after. For women hoping for something lasting, it doesn't happen that way. At most if the bill is split at least neither feels obligated to do anything more for each other. He doesn't feel "used" and she doesn't feel socially pressured into sleeping with him.

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