I regularly take my guy out. Dinner, drinks, a movie, whatever. Happily💟❤️😜. But when it comes to the VERY FIRST DATE...
A Man Only Has Two Gifts
When it comes down to understanding the Laws of Polarity, masculine energy only has two gifts to offer the feminine. Simply put, it’s his job to protect and provide. In order for feminine energy to relax into a relationship and let her guard down, she absolutely must feel “safe” and if she doesn’t, it’s game over.
In order to feel safe, she probably has to be in the company of a man who is confident, relaxed and grounded. He has to not only take care of himself, but also take care of her. This means she has to feel protected and safe in his company—both from outside forces—and from him. She also needs to feel like he can provide for her needs and look after her. Obviously, the easiest and most symbolic way to demonstrate that is by providing the meal you are sharing.
So, what is the woman’s responsibility here?
If a man’s responsibility is to protect and provide, the gift of the woman is her ability to nurture and have her man’s back. Simply put, a man is looking for a woman who will gratefully receive his gifts and appreciate his generosity. The fact is, a man can be with anyone else at any given time and when he invests his time, talent and treasure with a woman, he simply wants it to be acknowledged. Those who seem less than grateful or have an attitude of entitlement should realize how distasteful that is and not be surprised when a good man finds it to be a deal-breaker.
1mo For those who think I made this up, I took the excerpt from Dave Elliot relationship expert at YourTango. com I'm not talking about kids and how they spend their allowances. I'm referring to adults who are looking for love.
1mo Is it really so difficult to understand? When going on a first date, are not both parties trying to impress the other one, to get to a second date, third, love, happy ending etc? If not, whats the point of the date in the first place. Furthermore, if one or both people establish through the course of the first date, they have no interest in that person for a second date (prior to the bill arriving) then split it and walk away.
It makes sense, but it's way too complicated a way to get to the answer.
I solved the problem using game theory.
The guy essentially has four choices at the end of the first date :
If the girl offers to pay, the guy can either let her pay, or not let her pay. If the girl doesn't offer to pay, the guy can just pay, or ask her to pay.
Note that at the point of making that decision, the guy has no way of telling whether there will be a follow up date, whether the girl is a gold digger, whether she's promiscuous, whether she's all about abstinence, etc, etc.
So with that information in mind, unless she offers to pay for the first date, he is only cock blocking himself by not paying. There is no upside to it at all, except the one time cost savings of the meal and the time spent. If she goes on and tells her friends about the experience, it might even cost him potential future dates/sex.
TL;DR - Guys who don't pay for first dates are just dumbasses on a mission to cock block themselves.
I'm a firm believer that a man should pay for the first date unless I'm the one who invited him. Though, I've never had a guy ask me to pay. Even when I invited him out, the guy has always paid for me, even if we went out just as friends. Most 'men' that don't pay tend to be little boys who think they shouldn't have to work for anything or, at least, that's the kind of guys I run in to around where I live.
I don't mind paying for a guy if we're together. I've taken out ex's on dates a lot. Breakfast, movie, dinner... as long as I could afford it, we went. I think a man should be treated, too, but not right out like that. To me, it's part of the chase, the thing men tend to like the most.
Any guy who expects me to pay for myself or pay for the entire first date in my opinion simply isn't interested in me like that. I like being the submissive person in the relationship and by me paying for the first date, I feel like I'm taking on the dominant role.
I would say that yes this is reasonable women do look for a protector and provider its biological but in turn men are looking for a nurturer and some one loyal. The issue I think has always been that men give this but women do not give back they believe they are entitled to the mans money without themselves having to prove themselves and that is where the conflict lies. I think the reason so many disagreed is not because they really don't understand it so much as so many years of men being obligated to give while women didn't have to give anything and even began feeling entitled to what he provided has made many men very against paying for the first date. So you are trying to state what a woman's and a man's responsibilities are years after women stopped providing that and years after men stopped caring, hence the responses you have gotten. However I do personally believe that yes this is how it should be if she does not give what she has to offer to me then I have no obligation to give what I have to her, the fact is their is no such thing as unconditional, everything is an exchange of goods in some form or another. So if we are to return to that system then it would require women restoring mens faith in them which currently I don't see happening at least not any time soon.
When I was young, it was the normal procedure for the guy to ask the girl out and to pay for the date. Every date. So that is what is "correct" to me. If I am going to date now, it would likely be someone close to my age, so they would likely have the same standards. It would take some getting used to for me to change how that works.
What is the girl offering to reciprocate the guys gesture of paying for the date?
Supposedly "gift of the woman is her ability to nurture and have her man’s back" ?
Yeah, but that only applies AFTER you are officially a couple. If the she loses interest after 4 or 5 dates then he never receives that nurturing. If the date doesn't result in anything then his gesture was wasted.
So I am fine paying for dates but only AFTER she is officially my girlfriend. Otherwise I am potentially wasting my money on someone who will never be more than a stranger to me.
Also the same girls who might expect me to wait a month and pay for all the dates have probably exchanged nudes and had sex with men who didn't have to pay for anything. Or maybe while I am paying to take her out she is already sleeping with another guy on the side because we aren't exclusive yet. I just think it would be way more flattering to be the guy she didn't expect to pay for her. It seems the more attracted a girl is to a guy, the less she expects him to do before sleeping with him.
So I definitely prefer women who don't expect me to pay for the dates, at least not in the early stages. Once we are actually a couple and I am actually receiving that nuturing then I would happily pay to take her out.
Not really a debate. Some people are stuck in the past, or, as with many US girls, they want it both ways--equality, but the guy should still pay!. I know girls who have NEVER, once, paid for a drink, OR for vacations, and they aren't supermodels, either. And this is well into the new century, when females have been half the work force for quite a while.
Modern guys are just not going to put up with this any longer.
Meh I don't require nor do I desire nurturing in a relationship. I can take care of myself. I don't need to be catered to or waited on. There seems to be this notion that people need to be dependent on their partners for relationships to work and I completely disagree with all of that. Why can't both people protect and provide for each other when the situation calls for it? If I wanted to be a total provider I'd buy a pet.
I'm a firm believer in equal relationships. It's interesting how many people I meet claim to want that but really don't. That's my unpopular opinion on the situation.
I've always felt the it's the guys responsibility to pay. It's a fair test of his ability, at lest when it comes to manners and finances.
Over a 40 year marriage, for example, he is likely to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on his family. So, if he makes a fuss over a $40 dinner for a first date, he's probably not going to make a great boyfriend.
$40 spent on the woman who might be the potential love of your life is a small price to pay and he will be happy to do it, if he knows what's good for him.
I think the guy should at the very least offer to pay for the first date. A lot of young guys these days seem to have no sense of romance. What is so bad about treating a sweet young lady that you like to a meal? I don't know why this has suddenly become a huge deal honestly
I am fine with you thinking that. I just won't date you. I am tired of women wanting to be treated like princesses most of the times AND then be treated like men when it suits them. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You want to be seen as responsible adults and be responsible for yourself? Then pay for your own shit damnit ! It's about principles. I know it doesn't cost that much, but if it doesn't cost that much, you should be able to pay for it then ! Show us that you respect our time and the value of money. Show us that you are not just another entitled princess. Show us that you are going to be a teammate instead of a deadweight. Pay your share !
If I invited you to join me for lunch, would you expect me to pay? If I saw you in a bar and I ordered a round of drinks for you and I, would you expect me to pay? If I offer you a ride home from work and stop for fuel, would you expect me to pay? (hint: these are all yes questions)
The one who asks is the one who pays. The responder is not expected to pay. Simple
The man is to treat her out on a date. Doesn't matter if she makes more or less money. The man is to take the lead, I know others will disagree or argue with me on this, so what. Showing her your a man that can and will provide for her. A boy will be immature about having her pay for the date.
Women aren't perpetual victims. They are adults who can take care of themselves. They don't need 'protection', they don't need a 'provider,' and they don't need a man for these things. Women are capable on their own.
Both women and men have masculine and feminine qualities. Some balanced towards one way, others the opposite, etc. There's no man who is 100% masculine and there's no woman who is 100% feminine.
Such notions of 'tradition' that you purport are childish and outdated. Besides, all that I learned studying social dynamics, men who are the supposed 'provider type' don't even have sexual attraction. https://youtu.be/HGEO6ig8WsM
When it comes to the laws of polarity, but what if we dont want to follow your bullshit fantasy of polarity? It only exists in your mind, there is no such thing as polarity, otherwise the woman would bring two gifts as well but she does not, she is a parasite on her host.
I actually agree. It makes sense. Besides, The cost of a meal is a small price to pay in trying to create a connection with someone. I really don't understand all the haters. Those are probably the same guys who hate women because they can't get a date in the first place. And with attitudes like that, if I were a girl, I wouldn't want then either. Some of these guys get caught in their own catch 22.
I don't mind paying for a woman. What I do mind is the double-standard of feminist type women. They disagree with traditional gender roles and in most areas want to be treated exactly like men, yet here they expect to be treated like feminine women and push men to act in a traditional manner because it benefits them in this case because duh, they don't have to pay for shit. I think that's what most guys find annoying, because they expect a man to be the traditional man but they call him sexist if he expects her to be a traditional woman. Either you want to be treated the same as us or you don't. Imagine a guy who never wanted to pay for anything, doesn't want to ever provide for you or protect you, but then expects you to do all the housework, cook for him and have sex whenever he wants it. One-sided right?
I think that excerpt is a very clear example of looking at a 3d world in 2d. It's a very overly simplistic way of looking at things. And frankly, the conditions set are very unfavorable to the male.
On a first date, nobody owes anyone anything. If a girl asks a guy on a date, the guy should expect to pay half. If a guy asks a girl on a date, she should expect to pay half. This expectation by women that the man pays has nothing to do with him 'providing' (seriously, it's one fucking meal, let's not act like it's so significant) and nothing to do with how 'traditional' (lol what a crock of shit) she is. It has to do with her wanting a free meal. Dance around it however you want, that's what it boils down to. On a first date, you're supposed to be there with the purpose of getting to know someone and if the fact that you actually have to pay for your own food (gasp) gives you an ulser so bad that it ruins the entire date for you then just throw yourself off a cliff because your priorities in life suck and your parents failed to create a mature human being.
I don't know about the guys you are used to but I got a lot more to offer than just protection and money. And I don't see relationships as some kind of agreements where I give her protection and provide shit for her and in exchange she gives me what, sex and cooking I guess?
Also the way you speak of women is pretty fucking patronizing in my opinion, you talk as if women were some fragile little creatures who can't take care of themselves and need a man to provide for them. I mean sure there might be women like that, but I wouldn't date someone that insecure and helpless.
Also real mature with the voting options there, grow the fuck up.
I dont like the way you put it but understand what you're trying to say And i agree with it for the most part If we like a girl we are fully willing to pay please keep in mind ladies that we akways always even if we are dating you for a year and a half we always want you to at least offer to pay
This is the absolute truth when it comes to basic caveman interaction of humans, but as women on this site like to [sarcastically dictated but never read] "eloquently" like to remind the men, "we're no longer cave men".
If a female has a job she should pay her fair share unless I'm really trying to impress her or I feel that paying for her side of the date is worth it. If I get the vibe that she just expects it, well she's paying for her dinner and maybe I'm ditching her with my side of the bill depending on how much of a bitch she is.
I get what sentiments you are trying to get at here, and I agree. But if your idea of "feeling protected", "safe" and cared for is people paying your bills, then we have a problem. That's plain shallow and you have instantly made me uninterested.
And frankly, if your entire job is to "gratefully receive" my gifts you better be an A-grade hot shit for me to value you above my money.
Sarah I don't get it... yesterday you told me that on the first date I should spend $0.00 on a first date. And you also said that if I spent $20-$50 on first dates, I should instead use that money to pay for my own therapy... I'm confused.
F*ck that sh*t! First date means nothing expensive, not even dinner for me. I'm not gonna be some walking ATM for some princess type I hardly know and who I could quite possibly never hear from again after the date.
Besides, I don't want immature girls who can't even afford their own meal...
I'm willing to be generous and pay for a date, AFTER we already have something going on, as a gift, not to prove I can be her pimp.
Those people are just justifying their dating techniques or in other cases, they are trying to popularize their books by talking about "polarity laws". In my opinion, polarity laws are fine but they can be dismissed partly or entirely in everyday life (except for sex maybe?) because... Regardless of polarity, I like a girl who is grateful, honest and all that. If she is "less grateful" then yea its a deal breaker but it has nothing to do with polarity
If a girl expects me to pay for the first date, I just assume she's not interested. That's the only logical reason I can think of. If she really was into me, she'd want to spend time with me whether I pay or not.
What you say makes sense. However, somehow this still rubs me the wrong way, because why law states that man absolutely has to do it on the first date? What excuses the woman from doing this favor for him too? Both should split the bill, or the woman should at least pitch in for the tip, or better yet, just buy your own meal. Then after that, maybe naturally he'll want to pay for the whole meal next time, or maybe the woman will. I think the first date should be neutral at your own expense becuase you're getting to know each other before fully investing yourself in something that may not even work in the first place.
Ehh, I disagree. I paid for the majority of our first date, my meal and half of his because I'd recommended the restaurant and felt bad that he didn't like it, and I don't think my 'feminine energy' particularly cared.
I never understood why that's an issue for so many men? Isn't it just common courtesy to pay? My boyfriend was raised that way and on our first date, he payed. Also it was the fact that I wasn't working at the time and simply didn't have the money to pay for my half lmao. I'm probably going to get downvoted but I just believe it's a kind thing to do. I wouldn't go into the first date with the expectation of him paying for my meal and would offer to go in half but still, it's just kind and I would be super appreciative if he did.
on a first date, both people should pay for themselves. that way, no one is indebted to the other (especially since a lot of men think that paying for the date means the girl owes them sex), especially if things don't go well.
once you're part of a couple, you can take turns. times are tough for everyone, and there's no reason i can't pay for my own supper.
Depends on the people. Obviously if I were to take you out (if I was a guy) I would pay for the first date because that is what you expect apparently and I guess that is fine, but if you start to expect it on a regular basis... then I'd probably think it was unfair and leave.
I let my guy pay for our first date. He was like "do you want me to get this?" and i was like "sure" because I wasn't sure if he wanted me to pay half or if he actually meant that he just wanted to pay it. It was a little awkward. I think I chose the wrong one, but I made up for it later. I contribute my share now. We get along very well now I think.
A man and women need to have an equal balance of what they give in the relationship. For a first date a girl should ask if he wants to split the bill and if he says no then that would be nice but either way a women needs to learn to be independent and not always count on their man to give them everything. Women can take care of themselves. But again it can depend on a guy some guys love to shower their women in gifts and love and other do it but they want the same affection back. It can be a turn off for men when they are the ones feeling like they're taking care of a kid..
This reminds me of a date I had gone on with on another girl (I'm bi). She pretty much said that she prefers to split the bill when she's with a woman but if she's on a date with a man, she expects him to pay. I walked right out and wasn't interested in a second date.
That being said, I don't agree with what you said. If you think that you deserve something just because of what's between your legs, you're not worth dating.