Why do women claim to desire men with confidence when they really want "alpha" men with social value?

Women seem to believe in general that loud or outgoing men are confident, when in reality self image and composure has nothing to do with "game" or how socially adept someone is.

It can be the case that someone has a lot of self confidence and simply doesn't want many friends or has a quiet demeanor or introverted personality. Confidence has nothing to do with outgoingness.

Updates:
I have yet to receive any rational answer to this from a woman.
My conclusion and answer to my own question is that confidences is how much you value and respect yourself. Social value is where one ranks within the subjective person to person view of a given social hierarchy, changing with context and vantage point.

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Most Helpful Guy

  • This is a really good question and I await answers (or more like, attempts to justify) from girls :P

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What Girls Said 19

  • Yes you are right, guys don't have to be loud and obnoxious to prove that they have confidence. As a matter of fact, it doesn't prove anything.

    All it takes for a guy to show they are confident is just walking across a room towards a girl that he's been eyeing all night and saying hi. Just a simple act like that shows that he's confident enough to walk up to a total stranger and try to start a conversation. For some people (including women), that may seem nearly impossible. In fact, that simple act might deem to be more attractive compared to the guys who are social butterflies. But keep in mind, this act also doesn't change who you are or really change your social personality.

    Reading through the answers on here, many people simply made a point that unsocial men (who can't even hold a conversation) are less attractive to women. Women are naturally very social so "socially-appearing-men" are more attractive. I mean compared to another guy who's been pretty loud in the room we can't help but be curious and we are naturally attracted to that (we're all nosy, we can't help it). The fact is the quiet guys' presence are not as prominent as the other guy. The less quiet guy might have great qualities but if he can't advertise himself, no one will be able to notice him or give him a fair chance in getting to know him. As unfair as that may be, sometimes it's necessary to step out of your shell to obtain your goal.

    Just like women... you can't deny that if a hot girl walks into a room with a skin tight dress and banging body, she's not going to grab your attention. Men are more visual and naturally want to be more attentive towards attractive women. She may be a total whore bitch, but she's hot. Now maybe a girl who's a bit overweight has an amazing personality. But compared to the hot girl, for some guys there's really no comparison. The hot girl is always going to be chosen over the fat girl. I mean, who's wants to talk to a less attractive girl versus a more attractive girl? As shallow as that may be, it just works that way. Yes, the fat girl can lose weight, but until that time comes, the more attractive girl would be the first priority. You can say that women think outgoing men are confident, but men have their own faults in the same level. It only takes a person to really think reasonably who is a more suitable mate.

    So point is people are shallow beings. You can't categorize all women are shallow for this reason, men are just the same. People don't like the way you are? Well either you do something about it or deal with the consequences or whine like a bitch. But you know what? This is pretty extreme. There are definitely good people out there who aren't under these categories.

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    • So most women really ate stupid enough to fall for guys that are loud annoying and socially dominant simply because they have game? Regardless of whetger they'd be a good father or husband?

      Somehow I don't think most women are as stupid and immature as you.

    • Whoa, I didn't claim I'm that type of person at all. I simply stated that's how some are and gave some reasons why they are the way they are, doesn't mean they're right. In fact, I find quiet guys more attractive. Note my last sentence, "There are definitely good people out there who aren't under these categories." I find it ironic that you say women are attracted towards outgoing guys and then you call me stupid and immature and now seem to believe that most women are not that way...

  • To answer your question (which is a bit confusing at face value), women want elements of the alpha man. The key to the alpha man happens to be confident conduct. Whether it is ethical conduct is another matter. Women want a man with confidence and ethics -- someone they can trust. I'm not sure that this is what you are referring to as "social value" -- your follow-up definition is somewhat unclear but seems to imply the sociological marketability of the guy within the context of a specific culture. Sort of like picking the best horse by looking at his teeth. If that's the case, you're referring to the selection process for shallow women, not women in general.

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  • I almost find it silly to say confidence has nothing to do with outgoingness. It does, just not in every case. I'm not the most confident person in the world, so against my better judgment I tend to be a little more introverted than I'd like to come off as. I know some men are the same. When a woman is first meeting a guy, we don't always have time to be a psychoanalyst. It's easier for females to assume an outgoing man is confident. I understand sometimes it may be a facade, but for women who don't know a man's original personality, a facade may be believable. It may also have little to do with confidence.

    Many women just say they want a 'confident' man because they're not being politically correct 24/7. Maybe she does mean she wants an alpha male with social value, but saying that's attractive to a new date or friend may come off as high standards or she thinks too much into things. Saying a woman wants a confident man gets the point across and is easier to say. In addition, some women might mean just what they say. Maybe some do what confidence and don't care about social value. There's always the third option that she doesn't know what she's talking about.

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    • "There's always the third option that she doesn't know what she's talking about." = 99%

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    • I do not see how being extroverted is the same as being confident. Maybe the person just doesn't talk much, you know. Therefore, this means you make random assumptions based on irrelevant facts and essentially make QA be right because you don't know what you're doing.

    • I never said it's the same, I said they are correlated. I even gave an example. Like I said, not everyone has time to be a psychoanalyst and debate deep into a person's personality. That would take forever just to evaluate every man in a bar or mall or wherever a woman is. If a man wants to be acknowledged, is it really so hard to walk up and say hello? It's a lot easier than making us evaluate every personality around for a confident/alpha/socially valuable guy [whatever you choose to call it].

  • I could just be the odd women out, but I don't associate an "outgoing" personality with confidence. A lot of the time I find that guys who would be considered "outgoing" are rather obnoxious? To me, confidence is about the way they think about themselves, not about how they believe to be perceived. I think there is nothing sexier than an introverted, intelligent guy who is comfortable with who and what he is. I don't like He-Man attitudes, the only time a guy should be "ALPHA" is in the bedroom. :) Although, admittedly, a little jealousy can be nice, too. Basically, if I saw a big group of guys yelling and arguing with each other, I'd be most attracted the the quiet one standing with them smiling, but not exactly contributing. I don't know why? Maybe it's because I prefer not to draw attention to myself, so I look for these qualities in others.

    To answer your question more generally, I'd say the women who DO like that type of man are more attention seeking or socially concerned. They care about what others think? They want to be with the most dominant character? Who knows. Most of those guys are douchebags though.

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  • I'm pretty sure we answered your questions, you just think the only right answer is the answer you want. Why do men ask women an answer when they already have a biased, predetermined answer? That's one I would like to receive a rational answer from.

    It's as simple as this; you have three options:

    1) She doesn't know what she's talking about.

    2) She says what she means. She just wants a guy with confidence.

    3) Maybe she does mean an 'alpha male', but who seriously goes around telling men she wants an alpha male? Awkward date/introduction much?

    'What kind of guy do you like?'

    'Oh, you know, an alpha male with social value so I can better achieve my personal goals.'

    She'd sound like a keeper. I bet that would pick up a ton of men.

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    • As long as you acknowledge its not really about self confidence, its how other people regard him. Women want men that dominate other men and dominate other women socially and otherwise.

    • It may not be for every woman, but it is for some regardless of how much you think it's not. I like a guy who is self-confident because no one wants to tell a guy 30 times a day that he's good looking/good at other things. He certiainly doesn't need everyone else's approval for me to like him because I couldn't care less how other people regard him. They're not dating him and their opinion isn't mine. I can like a guy even if he has one or no friends if he makes me happy.

    • Some people don't have what it takes to be loved, like my dad said. It isn't anyone's fault its just they aren't lovable

  • confident men with social skills tend to be "alpha men" what's wrong with that? not everyone likes a beta male or a wimp. its just not masculine

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  • I think being loud or quiet is just the way someone behaves, it has nothing to do with being confident or not. Some people who are loud and outgoing might not be confident themselves, they might be trying to cover it up by acting that way. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be alone or in a more quiet place. In my opnion, introverted men are more attractive, and it really has nothing to do with whether he is confident or not, he's just comfortable being the way he is and that's okay. To be honest, maybe introverted men are even more confident, because they are okay with the way they are, they like being introverted, so they are. They don't need to fake to fit in. They might be the ones who are more confident, because they are themselves regardless of what people say.

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  • Social value," as in valuable to society, or a man who values society? I ask 'cause, personally I would rather have a man who prefers being valuable to it, more than valuing society itself.

    As far as your confidence points go, I don't disagree with you, rhetoric can't be outdone by solid, consistent actions :)

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    • It means they have a great network of acquiantances and know a lot of people and can talk to pretty much anyone about anything.

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    • What if he doesn't have friends and his family is... well, gone?

    • he has my empathy :/

  • yeah, what's why most girls go for the popular guys, because they like him for his social value, the respect he has from throughout society than just the confidence he has in himself

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  • I would prefer an average guy because those alpha males are douche bags.

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  • Re. Update: No wonder I don't perfer Social value! ;) The odds are very stacked against everyone!

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  • I could not care less about social value, but I do want a man to be confident.

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  • I think you are on to something; however, I think you are generalizing. I think when a person is self confident, they are comfortable with themselves. They can be outgoing or quiet when they want to because they are comfortable with their ENVIRONMENT. They make people go in awhh... or actually want to get to know that person because he/she is WELL MANNER, DOWN-TO-EARTH, and ADVENTURIST. He/she might do their own things but it is cool to them. They don't expect people to like what they do (for example cycling across the US or South America). They DON"T NEED ACCEPTING, PLEASE OTHER PEOPLE, OR TO BRING ATTENTION to themselves.

    NOT ALL Alpha men with social value is always confident from my experience. Some are control freaks and other are insecure with themselves and need to project they are secure by being loud and macho. As you can see, I can also generalize. Also not all girl want a alpha men with social class or social or whatever. What some girls want are real confident guys who are themselves.

    Best advice I ever got is if someone like you for what you are not, they are not meant for you.

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  • oh shut the f*** up

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  • Dude can be socially adept without being a loud and obnoxious. Most women, except for shy ones, don't want to limit their social lives because a guy doesn't feel comfortable in social situations. They like a guy who can hold his own. On the flipside, a shy girl is going to love that her man isn't dragging her into situations where she is uncomfortable. People in the middle usually have a little leeway towards extroversion/introversion. But confidence isn't about that ... a loud guy is often insecure and needy. You're right. But some of the reasons social girls are drawn to social guys is because they are compatible in many ways.

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  • Social creatures like other social creatures. Sometimes, it has something to with having the brightest feathers. Say for instance that a man is introverted. Ideally, he should be looking at introverted women. But is he? Nooooo. LOL, he's looking at the girl flipping her hair, who clearly isn't introverted. Now he's angry because he feels rejected. He's too shy to approach such an outgoing woman, he's bitter because she won't approach him, and all the while he's overlooking the other introvert standing 10 feet away from him. Hmmm. I'm not picking on men. Plenty of women do the same thing. They're standing in the corner, angry because the outgoing girl is getting all the attention... ignoring the introverted guy who's watching her from behind his physiology book.

    Until people wise up... It's sort of like over looking the flier because you're looking at the flashing neon sign. Instinctively, the flashing sign will catch your eye, while the 8.5x11 piece of paper goes unnoticed.

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    • I've decided I need to stop being a bitch and just ask a girl out. If she says no, then I'll move on and not really care.

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    • Hey! I'm an introvert and I -am- looking for (at least partially) introverted females. I cannot relate well with general extroverts... They're just too different.

    • @ Mesonfielde - That's great! I'm a bit of an introvert. I know how to socialize when I must, but I prefer not to stay in the thick of things. Dating a male social butterfly has always been too much *drama* for me. Also, what's important to us as far as social matters is completely different. You know...He sees my Prada handbag, so he points out his Ferragamo shoes lol... like I care. I like what I like, because I like it. Not for social approval. Those relationships get weird lol.

  • I don't know where you're from but here in North America, many people are foolishly led to believe that a person can only be confident if they are boisterous and extroverted. Anyone who is more introverted and quiet is thought of as a mental case who needs to "come out of their shell" when that is far from the truth. There are many introverted people who are far more confident then an extrovert.

    I too am the quiet introverted type and I am rather confident. It's not where it should be but I'm getting there! When it comes to friends, all I really need is one or two close friends to make me happy. I find the more people have, the more draining it is to divide your attention between all of them. Because of this, many people would be quick to assume that I'm a loner who doesn't want friends who needs to be more outgoing and talkative in order to "fit in". When it comes to the opposite sex, I'd rather much have someone who is more like me in that sense because he would be able to relate as to why I sometimes just want to be alone or why I could care less about large social gatherings. I'm more happy with a one-on-one discussion then making small talk with people I don't even know.

    As for confidence=outgoingness, I think the reason people think the two are connected is because they assume that a confident person is going to be that type who have no problems approaching people they don't know or the type that want that attention drawn to them when from what I've observed, it's sometimes the opposite. I find that people who have low self-esteem or those who are conceited(that's just another word for those who are very insecure about themselves) are more likely to present themselves as the outgoing in your face type because they are trying to be someone they are not because they often don't like who they are. Of course, there are those who simply love the interaction with other people. It energizes them which is why they like being around others all of the time. I've found that most extroverts are like that.

    So that's why I think women associate an outgoing demeanor with confidence. That and there are many women who do want that alpha male type but just don't want to admit it. They try to hide behind excuses like wanting a confident man yet what they really want is someone with those alpha male traits.

    I hope this post made some sense to you.

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    • Im perfectly confident in who I am. I'm financially well off, know what I want out of life, have a huge d*** and have friends from volunteering and school and a good job. Don't need a woman to validate me

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    • I like to think its everyone else that's an asshole.

    • I think this guy is right. There is no good reason a man should have to ask a woman out

  • You could say the same about men. Beta men, which have been popularized by movies such as, "SuperBad", "Youth in Revolt", and pretty much any movie Michael Cera has been in, need a very socially outgoing female as a partner. These alpha men you speak of tend to have very high confidence because of their good social standing. However, while an introverted personality may have confidence, they don't project it well because that's not their nature. In short, I don't think you can generalize that every female both claims she wants a confident guy *and* then goes for an alpha male. There are all different personalities out there, and I happen to be one of the girls who goes for those unmotivated yet curiously charming beta males.

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    • Well I don't mean the socially awkward beta males or the fat loser nerd types, I mean guys that just don't really care about social games and keep to themselves. I don't talk much unless I'm at work or where I help out at after work.

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    • There are a lot of advantages to dating a dude with great social skills. He would most likely have fabulous connections on the job and good negotiating skills. However, there's no guarantee he would make a good partner. That's where what I call the "quiet workers" have the upper hand. These guys never stand out, but when you start talking to them, they're like a breath of fresh air compared to all the other guys you meet. They're articulate, original, and funny. And these guys do get girls.

    • I'm not even sure what "Beta" is, other than that this whole greek-letter grading system is a plague of the mind.

  • Re. update: Way to stir the pot, did you even try to see the "rational?" Or are you to busy worrying about the answer you want?

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    • You didn't answer my question woman.

    • LOL! I only respond too "pleases and thank yous" ;D

What Guys Said 5

  • Girls will go for guys who are confident, that is always the case but you can be a great confident super dude but if you stand in the corner and do nothing to socialize... No one is going to know.

    They talk to guys who are taking initiative to talk to them. Not every girl wants the obnoxious clowns but they aren't going to approach a guy (that's our job).

    "Confidence has nothing to do with outgoingness"

    Certainly confidence comes in many forms as people have confidence in mechanics, social or art but certainly an outgoing, sociable, charismatic and funny guy is going to steal that poo C all day.

    This is the same idea with a girl who is smart, funny and nice but she's Fat.

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    • Love your answer

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    • "Yeah but I'm confident in who I am and changing myself and approaching women isn't acceptable. I'd never make such a desperate move."

      Self improvement, pretty stupid concept huh?

    • That doesn't change the fact that women don't approach men. That's self improvement, as you call it, for women too. Why should a man have to compete for women? That is absurd.

  • In general they seem to measure social value by looking at how "in control" of his situation a guy is. In a social situation, they think an "in control" kind of guy is going to be having fun and talking to whomever he wants whenever he wants. I enjoy sitting back in social situations and just being there, but I know I've got to fake like I'm the life of the party sometimes to get the idea across that I'm a solid guy who knows who he is. It's just another little bit of play-acting and everyone's gotta do it sometimes I guess.

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    • Guess that's my problem. I don't act

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    • Who the balls is that? My name is Will

    • There was a spam comment here that got deleted. This person "johana" said she wanted to get to know me and have a close personal relationship. It's a scam message people have been getting all over the site.

  • The word confidence means what again for those who know?

    To appear/portay or give the illusion to another party who perceives you as though you are confident.

    Confidence is fake and is based on looks, so ladies who say they want confidence mean they are only after looks not personality .

    Which is completely unrelated to being a confident person.

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  • well I don't blame women at all for having higher standards

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  • The only people who know what an Alpha man is aren't getting laid. Excluding me, ofcourse. LOL!

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