Why does US dating still seem so woman-centered?

TBH, I have my own theories on this one, that I might blog about. But think about the introduction and dating process.

-The man is still often expected to make the move or else he's a coward. Women rarely ever make a move.

-A man paying for a meal is still a deal-breaker for many women. If he doesn't pay for her, he's cheap. But she isn't cheap even though she isn't willing to pay for her OWN meal.

-It seems much of the basis is on the man proving his value, earning his worth, climbing up the ladder to earn her company. It runs on the presumption that she's already perfect. (Probably because he made the move? He's expected to.)

-The main discussion about relationships seems to be men talking about what they can do to earn a woman's presence, and women asking each other "is he even good enough for you?"

-"I don't deserve this treatment" is something I almost only hear from women. The equivalent for most guys is "what did I do to make her upset? How can I make up?"

-Sex, in general, is treated as though it's a gracious sacrificial favor by the woman that the man must strive for. It's treated as though women don't want it, and are only annoyed by men's desire for it.

Much of these ideas, like the dating expectations, are considered outdated or nuts in other countries:

-When you pay for yourselves, like normal adults, there's a reason it's called "going dutch".

-In Scandinavia, men and women are expected to make a move on those they're interested in. In fact, they say it's easy to find an American woman, because she's the one expecting to be approached.

-In Sweden, a usual first date consists of going to a coffee shop and chatting, (going dutch along the way). If someone suggests a nice dinner, they're likely to be turned down. It's too formal and elaborate. If the man pays, it's almost uncomfortable and suspicious. Sex usually happens after the first or second date.

Yet, we seem to stick to these ideals.

Why do you think this is?

To me, it comes down to this: We are scared of sex in the USA, and we act like women are asexual. This turns getting a date into a business deal for women, and a fight for love and respect for men. It makes men's libidos normal, and women's libidos so low that men have to fight and struggle just to get the attention of the one girl who actually wants it. It's sexist against men and women.

As I've stated before: We're a bunch of Bonobos who are trying to act like Chimps.

In the other countries I mentioned, women's libidos are more expressed and acted upon. In fact, the average age of losing virginity in the US is something like 17-20. In Iceland, for example, it's 13. Women show they want sex as much as men, and men's sexuality isn't considered annoying, creepy, and perverted. As a result, there is a lot more sex, less frustration, and even less violence. The expectations evened out.

(I know I'm answering my own question, but I want your take.)

What is your view on the American standards of dating?

Updates:
New information. A woman discusses her shock in dating in California compared to the UK:


link

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Most Helpful Guy

  • I agree completely. One of my most enjoyable relationships was one in which the girl approached me, asked me for my number, was never shy about voicing her desires, and always refused to let me buy her things. It was so much more enjoyable because we were pursuing each other, not just me pursuing her.

    I didn't feel like I was standing in front of a firing squad waiting for her to give the order to fire.

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    • Precisely! It's a huge load off. Women seem so fearful/resentful of men's sexuality, but many still expect men to initiate the move. They expect you to guide the relationship into new terretory, but are the ones most afraid of having their boundaries crossed. It's just a ticking time-bomb.

      I wouldn't mind the standards so much if women just took charge now and again.

What Girls Said 1

  • Why does US dating still seem so woman-centered?

    Why do you think this is?

    Probably because likely you're a heterosexual man dating women so you don't see or notice as much the men-centered dating advice.

    What is your view on the American standards of dating?

    It's mainly it's patriarchial gender roles, guys expecting to be rewarded for being nice, a woman not appreciating a guys attraction to her or finding it annoying, creepy, or perverted is seen as misandry rather than dislike of those mens attraction.

    I highly doubt your view is the norm it may bes confirmation bias otherwise I have vastly different experiences from the norm since mine have been:

    - Guys often say "I don't deserve this treatment" and question if the gal is good enough for him.

    - Women aren't generally presumed to be perfect while men prove their value as women are often told they have nothing to little to offer besides sex/looks and much of the advice for women is proving her value ala youth/beauty, being placating, being nurturing, and being supportive of him as he is otherwise she's a shallow stuck-up golddigging b*tch.

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    • I understand much of what you have to say. I'm open to the idea of confirmation bias.

      But when a woman publicly calls a man a misogynist because he asked for coffee non-threateningly on an elevator; or in my case, is called a predator for telling a girl she had a cute smile, I don't agree that this is something that can be twisted or manipulated into misogyny.

      Read the link (by a woman, no less) and read some of the answers below.

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    • Egh in my experience misogynist and misandrist are readily tossed around.

      What misogynist coffee incident are you talking about?

      The closest I can recall is Rebecca Watson and she the woman in the incident didn't call the man a misogynist.

      She said she was uncomfortable and advised guys not to ask gals out in a confined space. The details were she giving a lecture on how she doesn't want to be approached and he opened with how he enjoyed her lecture then proceeded to ask her out. LMFAO

    • I've read that link before and to me it's simply acknowledging that patriarchy hurts men to as the push to be promiscuous and such is a traditional masculine image.

      Unsure why you felt the need to add the blog post is "by a woman, no less" as if it gives it merit or more merit.

      In my opinion American guys are likely feeling they're downtrodden poor victims while gals have all or most the power and no to low accountability. Pretty much the standard stuff I hear from American guys.

What Guys Said 4

  • Well, the money thing is tradition.

    Beyond that, its your age. Under 26, women have a bigger dating pool then men, over 26, starts to trend the other way.

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    • How much dating get does in that age group? If you're past you're 20's, at least in my area, people start wondering why you aren't married yet.

    • In major urban areas, its pretty common to get married in mid 30's.

      Post 30, if you have a good job, its getting eeeeasy for the guys (I got married young, but I have friends ...) And much, much harder for the women. But most guys are dating down in age a lot unless they're ready to settle down.

      This, incidentally is another reason why dating is hard for guys in early 20's. You're competing with 30 year olds.

  • Your foreign examples are from Northern Europe only. In Southern Europe or Latin America, you will still find it much more traditional. And in much of the rest of the world, women are sadly chattel. It could be at lot worse.

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    • Indeed you are correct. These are nations that were ranked highest in quality of life, equality, and social progress.

    • So in other words, quit slagging on America. And don't think the northern Euros have it all figured out; a trip to the seedy parts of Amsterdam would horrify you.

  • i didn't read it all of it but it definitely seems like that

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  • Interesting take and a good read. But you seem to be saying that women in the US don't want sex as much as guys. I don't think that's true. I think they're very much interested in getting with a quality guy who knows how to please them sexually. And when they do, most want to do nothing more than give him the ultimate pleasure in return.

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    • Oh absolutely. I'm saying women are treated like they're asexual, and are, in some cases, expected to act asexual. Women's libidos are naturally about as high as men's.

      In many ways men are expected to act asexual here as well. Flirting has to be cautious because we're taught that every man is a potential rapist.

      I speak mostly of the masks we are expected to put on, which only serve to separate us.

    • kheserthorpe makes a good point. Also, I'm pretty sure most attractive women in the US are in some sort of sexual relationship most of the time. It's very rare to find a high quality woman who isn't in some sort of dating or relationship arrangement.

    • The guardian article is interesting. The most useful piece of advice in there is to just get out there and meet TONS of people. But I'd think you'd get the best results by mixing that advice with going out on actual dates, rather than just getting drunk and hooking up with randoms.

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