What should happen to the modern feminist movement?

Given the radically different opnions on this topic, I'm curious how people will answer.

Please explain why you voted the way you did and if you have any further thoughts, please post them.

  • It should be given a LOT more support. All women would be best off joining and all men should join too.
    22% (10)7% (5)13% (15)Vote
  • It should be given more support. More women would be best off joining and men should listen to it more.
    16% (7)4% (3)9% (10)Vote
  • It should be listened to more.
    9% (4)1% (1)4% (5)Vote
  • Nothing. It's fine as it is.
    2% (1)1% (1)2% (2)Vote
  • It should change it's methods/goals.
    13% (6)17% (12)16% (18)Vote
  • It should be totally "re-branded" and change it's image/goals/methods and everything else.
    20% (9)26% (18)23% (27)Vote
  • It should be ignored and preferably no one would join and it would die out.
    18% (8)44% (30)33% (38)Vote
And you are? I'm a GirlI'm a Guy
Updates:
Based on this poll, only 24% don't have a negative opinion on current feminism. XD

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Most Helpful Girl

  • I believe in the main and original idea of feminism - equality between men and women. Simply because I would like to have to same options and opportunities in life as men. This 'goal' has been achieved in most countries.
    I'm not really sure what modern feminism has become. I guess it's like religion; people believe more strongly in it than others. I think us women are in a pretty good position at the moment. However, women in other countries are still regarded as second class citizens, and I believe that should be changed. Some feminists are just too sensitive and believe everyone is attacking them.. Stories like "how air conditioning is sexist" *sigh*.
    So yeah there's still some sane feminists in the world thank god, it's just the more extreme feminists are getting more attention because of their radical ideas and are therefore giving feminism a bad name..
    What do you think of it?

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    • I think that when most people identify as feminists, they mean the dictionary definition and they believe men and women should be equal. A minority that are active online and in some newspapers are fanatics. I remember hearing a quote of Churchill's that said that a fanatic was someone who couldn't change their minds and won't change their subject. I think it applies to some feminists. Another example was a long article I saw in the Atlantic that discussed the Feminist meaning of the high heels the woman in Jurassic World wore. Lol

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    • Social class is another thing I believe shouldn't matter.

    • Woo go you! Haha, yes I completely agree with you. People need to start seeing each other as individuals.

Most Helpful Guy

  • I think the last wave of feminists, gender studies students and tumbler-feminism have probably killed the name "feminism". The old values (equality of opportunity, and law, for women) were very good. And it's a shame that when they have almost achieved the entirety of their goals the movement would be hyjacked by a bunch of extremists (I blame the way sites like Tumbler tend to segregate idealists in their own little bubble were they bounce around until they loose perspective of the real world) and veer off course into misandry and sillyness.
    At this point women should be celebrating what feminism has achieved, and debating whether the movement has a right to impose it's values on other cultures. Not camapaigning to make it illegal for a man to sit in a relaxed possition on a train when there are empty seats all around.

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    • I agree. Some of the things they take issue with is ridiculous. I also hate how they ignore issues that affect men by claiming it's mens problems. How then are they achieving equality?

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    • I've read stories like this many times. First a few points:
      1) What did the school do wrong? The article implies that it did something incorrect, but all it did was be cautious about allowing a school society which seemed to have political and potentially sexist motivations.
      2) She recieved verbal abuse when she stood up to a group of lads in the street. Groups like that tend to be abusive to everyone, regardless of gender. And if a guy had stood up to them there's a good chance he would have recieved something far worse than a cup of coffee thrown over him.
      3) The group recieved hatmail on twitter. Lots of groups recieve hatemail online, and the whole Feminism debate is so ubiquitous on twitter that any group throwing themselves into that enviroment, with a clear indication of which side they fall on, will recieve a lot of abuse.
      4) What does the group, or feminism as a whole, advocate doing about it? And why are massive feminist organisations more focussed on media stunts...

    • ... like 'manspreading' or the 'bossy' campaign rather than the real issues?

      In short it's because this abuse isn't about gender. It's about a shift in general society. On one hand you have the narcissistic arses (of both genders) who are abusive to everyone, and convinced that they are untouchable. These basic bullies simply have more reach in a world which makes bullies the victims and demonises the idea of punishing a child, while technology gives them a greater reach. (This plays into broader social issues like parental/state responsibility).
      On the other hand you have a large number of generally reasonable individuals being put under greater strain by economic and social issues. The fundamentally normal guys who are fed up of being told that "every guy is a potential rapist" and "men can't be the victims of domestic abuse", while being told that they arnt allowed to use the union facilities today because they are a 'safe place' etc etc.

What Girls Said 11

  • Honestly though it's not like feminism is one single ideology. There are many and they are fractured. One unilateral declaration won't be effective because it's such a broad movement.

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    • I suppose so.
      Ironically, learning that has made me more reluctant to say I'm a feminist. There are parts to it that are very dodgy tbh. The general idea is good. The actual word is so loaded now it's unbelievable.

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    • Here's something that has helped me reconcile my own beliefs with the larger movement: feminism is incredibly personal. It's not going to mean the same thing or look the same way to everyone. There are some admittedly deeply misguided people who believe that violence is an answer and a solution. That's not what I believe and that's not the way that I live. I'm deeply against the military, for chrissakes! I can't control how other people will act or believe, but I can control what I do. I think that our society will shift towards equity slowly, but that it will be sustainable.

    • Very good answer. Thanks. :)
      I'll try and remember that.

  • Feminism is nonsense. Lies from top to bottom, from start to finish. A half-assed ideology impregnated with lies every step of the way. Just gross.

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  • It needs a name change to egalitarianism.

    Too many self-proclaimed feminists could not care less about men's issues. They would rather picket for the right to go topless, rather than do something about actual sexism.

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  • Well there are like 3 waves of feminist movements. Some are just... I don't even know what to say. I agree with getting paid as much as a man does when having the same job and things of that sort.
    But I hate it when they want things to happen and their only reasoning is if a man can do it then women should too. It's like they have nothing to do with their lives and decided to make a stupid movement with stupid reasoning.

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  • I try not to be harsh but people who think feminism needs to die out should begin reading some books or doing research to educate themselves about what feminism achieved through the last century and why it's still needed, especially in developing countries. There are still many problems to solve. Don't become a problem yourself.

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    • This is not a century and it is not a developing nation.

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    • I think what he's saying is that feminism isn't needed in modern America.

    • Well, I don't think he's right.

  • The feminist movement is a necessary thing, but he direction it's going now is just such a big turn off for so many people. Nowadays if you brand yourself a feminist that comes with being pro transgender, pro lgbt, pro murder of unborn babies and etc. the feminist movement should focus on the rapss, domestic abuse cases, wage inequality, battling abuse and job inequality in other countries as well as working to abolish gender roles. The direction it's moving right now, it might as well die out. If they want men and women alike to join, they can't be so exclusive and they can't be feminazis that act like all knowing warriors of nonexistant injustice (in some cases). The feminist movement, is necessary, for men and women alike all over the world, but the way it is at the current moment, with the amount of help it is actually giving, it might as well not exist.

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  • It needs to die in a hole. These bitches are batshit crazy. According to them, men can't be raped by women. That's just one of their insane beliefs. Instead of supporting these psycho chicks just support equalism. That's what any normal person who believes in equality would do.

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  • I think the new trend of being feminist is bullshit.
    In Spain and Mexico there are lots of problems because the new laws in pro of the gurls.
    Feminazis it's the right concept for th new feminist movement.

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    • It's bizarre how a group claiming to represent women is hated so much by men and women.

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    • It's like in Mexico (I've heard in Spain too) that woman are using the laws for treat guys. That's bad. The girls abuse of the "power" that nation gaves them to do shitty things

  • I consider myself a second wave, which is still necessary and deserves more support. Modern feminism I'm a bit skeptical about. doesn't seem to be helping anybody but transgendered people. I think that's important as well. So maybe we can all just support transgendered people and dump the rest.

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  • The feminist movement isn't a bad thing. It's just that there are people who give the movement a bad name. Most feminists that I know are not "man haters" or "want men to die". Those are extreme feminists and honestly, I don't see them as real feminists. I fight for the rights of all genders. I don't think men should be expected to pull the weight in a relationship. I think it's wrong that cases of rape and abuse towards men are often looked over. A real feminist cares about all genders. The sad thing is that there are so many people who look at feminists and think negatively because of how certain people act. I'm sorry there are feminists who act rudely. Please try to look past this and join the feminist movement!

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    • Good post. My issue is that the feminist movement only seems to listen to women. That's why I think most men don't even think they can join.

    • True. If talking about feminism I'd say I'm a feminist but honestly feminism is such a small part of egalitarianism, which is really what the world needs. The all inclusive rights movement that will fight for everyone and holds no one as more important.

  • I don't mind the feminist movements, I just mind that they don't want equality, they want men to die. It's not real feminism, it's some crazy bitches who took over and ruined it.

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    • I can agree with that. So now whenever you say you are a feminist guys automatically think that you are crazy and go around cutting dicks off. Im a feminist that loves both genders and believes in equality for both genders. I wish the feminist meaning could be rebranded to mean what it used to. Males should be able to be the right kind of feminists too. I wish our generation could just take the name back and make it mean what it used to.

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    • @DeltaDanner I'm referring to the majority. Not all feminists believe the same thing.

What Guys Said 27

  • What's that saying, "Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it."

    Sure, it's a lovely thing to have yourself being on the very top, and have people working below you, barely able to survive with the limited financial resources you allow them to have as you convince everyone why a system of government should be supported which allows you to enjoy the vast majority of "consumption." So, as the helplessly "weaker" die off, cannot compete, or do not reproduce... what's the end-game? A bunch of "elites" with nobody else to do the work. Then what? Now what?

    Feminism "started" out because there was a "need" for it. The need was "legal" not "social." It was never about how people "felt" or controlling the way people "think." It was about "equal" protection under "THE LAW." It was unacceptable that society existed in a way where people at-large definitively agreed and "required" people to exist with "unequal" "LEGAL RIGHTS."

    Fortunately, there was "good news," women "WERE" given equal "LEGAL RIGHTS" with men. Feminism succeeded! Now, normally, you would think that when a goal has been reached, the movement stops. Not so. Feminism had become more than just a "finite goal" of "LEGAL EQUALITY." It was seen as a national source of "POLITICAL POWER," the power to "influence" legislation, government spending, and social issues - made possible by "WOMEN UNITING TOGETHER" to act as one united "SPECIAL INTEREST."

    But rather than straight-up be honest about basically continuing to exist as a special interest group that pushes for "more benefits" towards "women only," at "the exclusion or expense of" (other groups) (i. e., men), the group desperately tries to preserve its social legitimacy by trying to continue associating itself with an objectively "noble cause." Pressuring government actors to fund "breast cancer" over "prostate cancer" or obligate men and women to both pay "equally" for "health insurance" (even though men will never use things like "birth control pills" or "maternity care"), are not things that can be "socially defended" with a straight face.

    So, instead, they tried the whole, "THIS IS 'WHY' I 'NEED' FEMINISM" campaign. Again, classic political NLP tactics. In other words, "We're still relevant," and "We're still NEEDED."

    Okay? "WHY?" Is it because there is inequality under "THE LAW"? No? So, then you mean you are totally unrelated to "Feminism"? So, then, what the hell are you? You just want to philosophically change the world? That's nice.

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    • In other words, there are things "MORE IMMEDIATELY PRESSING" than "Feminist issues" today. Because, "UNDER THE LAW," animals still don't have the "LEGAL RIGHTS" they "should" ("normative" argument) have. What can we still do about it? We can "CHANGE THE LAW." That's direct, that's immediate, and that strongly affects the lives of animals.

      Want to go a step lower than animals, ladies? What about "men"? Yeah, "men," having "EQUAL LEGAL RIGHTS," under "THE LAW." All of a sudden, women purportedly fighting for "equality" and riding the "moral high horse" of supporting a "noble cause" become silent or defensive. When we're fighting for "Women's issues, it's equality." That's okay. There's "never" a point where advocating "for women's issues" starts to eat away "in a non-socially defensible way" at "the rights of others." I'm not talking about the "monopoly" of others, but "the rights" of others - inherent fairness "UNDER THE LAW."

    • All that is within our control as a society is: (a) what the law says, and (b) where money goes. We cannot micro-manage people and their actions. We can spread philosophy and religion to try to motivate people to act a certain way. But the biggest push towards a certain direction society can make comes from "THE LAW" and "ALLOCATION OF RESOURCES."

      To that end, modern-day feminists no longer have the "justification" to their existence as a group that seeks to correct some inherent or patent "INEQUALITY UNDER THE LAW." They also cannot objectively point to "RESOURCES" disproportionately being allocated "to men" as "opposed to women." So, the only thing that they are left "communicating" about are "social/philosophical/normative" arguments and issues. The only problem is, they continue to try to influence "THE LAW" and "ALLOCATION OF RESOURCES," even though none of their arguments are directed to any "problem" with either.

  • The movement in and of itself has become flawed and perverted by extremists and misandrists. It has become more of a hate movement than anything and it needs to be revamped desperately. The heads of the movement are sexist and ignorant, the majority are sexist and ignorant, and the minority of "real feminists" are doing nothing to change that. The movement has gained nothing productive in a long time and have started reaching goals that should never have been set. They got the "man spreading" law passed in NY which in and of itself is sexist. They are spreading sexist ideals and slam anyone who disagrees with them. Feminism by definition is for the equal rights of women, which has already been reached in the West. Women, arguably, are more privileged than men are in most western societies. The wage gap has been disproved hundreds of times. Same goes for the 1/5 statistic and other such myths spread by feminism to create a victim complex among women and implant an "us vs them" mentality. Meanwhile they ignore or mock all problems facing men and spread slander of the male gender. The extremist majority wants to kill off most men, leaving only a select few as breeders, as stated in the S. C. U. M. Manifesto. Also the fact that #KillAllMen, Male Tears, and #YesAllMen was started and spread by modern day feminism says something...
    The movement needs to either change drastically or die off.

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  • _______________________________.
    http://cdn.meme.am/instances/49668441.jpg

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  • When I observe the actions of modern feminists I think of an old SNES game. :)

    http://i.imgur.com/3vPJUID.gif

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  • I think feminism is hurting both genders. Feminism will end up hurting girls the most because virgin guys like me who could make girls happy will end up giving up on girls completely. If girls want to live a harem lifestyle by going after one guy, fine by me. We're just one step closer to ending humanity for good.

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  • I dont see it working for its meant to be, we're honestly still so far away from it all being perfectly equal because the world is just not a fair place. I hope all women can be what they want to be in life and not be held back by sexism in any way, seems only right but lots of fringe groups are trying to co op the message for something that isn't equality of the sexes.

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  • The modern feminist movement is a disgrace. It has flipped the original goals of feminism completely upside down. The founders must be rolling in their graves.

    What started as a movement to break away from an over protective society and government that treated women as too fragile and vulnerable to be allowed freedom to do as they please has morphed into a movement seeking out the protection of the nanny state. Feminism started with women acknowledging they could be raped or hurt but we're willing to take on the risks of living in an uncoddled society because their freedom was more important. Today feminism is all about using government to protect women from the threats they perceive around them, that women are a vulnerable class of people needing special protection. That's exactly what the founders of feminism fought so hard to stop! They wanted to be treated as equals not a special vulnerable class. Geez it is so sad what had happened.

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    • Will you spare a minute to read this?

      www.theguardian.com/.../why-i-started-a-feminist-society

      (Also, I don't see what modern feminism did to be called a disgrace.)

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    • @whiteandgold unless you can show feminists routinely fighting for men's rights, such as for protection from false rape claims, then it absolutely is a team. I'm sorry you are blind to the obvious. Take a step back and really consider what equality means and how it is fundamentally incompatible with dividing humanity into groups and picking just one group to fight for.

    • Are you seriously telling me to fight for everyone at the same time?

  • It really depends what you define by "modern feminism"

    I'm for equality and respecting eachother, but I'm not for privilege or hate of eachother.

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  • It should be rebranded and have its goals and methods changed, and maybe then people would actually support them. For example, ifbit weren't called FEMINism, maybe males wouldn't think they are threatened by it.

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  • At this point the only way to get more equality is to break both gender images.

    It has come to a point where if they want us to not expect femininity from a woman, they should also stop expecting masculinity from men.

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    • Who says they won't?

    • I don't say they won't, but at the moment it is usually the mother that puts gender images into childrenat least from my experience).

  • It needs to be eliminated as feminism already did what it needed to. Now it's just a rotting infection of a "movement" that has no real purpose other than to elevate women above men. The sexism of modern feminism needs to stop.

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  • Feminism has changed a lot since it's days of women getting the right to vote. It used to be more positive about women actually wanting to get involved and stuff.
    Now it sounds like women should take over the world and such. While men just watch helplessly. It really sounds more negative like nothing has changed in the last century. It needs to change from its negative form to a more positive one.
    To sound like it actually wants to help women.

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  • i love feminism and i think most people are feminists to some degree because most of us all want equal right for women. being a feminst is not about being better than men its about being equal and we all have to be equal thats it not better but equal that is what we should all strive to be like

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  • It should die out like the dodo bird

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  • It's hard for it to continue in it's current vein. When the hypocrisy of the movement has become so transparent. For it to continue it must either rebrand, or bring it's stated goals in line with its actions.

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  • if they changed from cold hearted bitches who want to see men oppressed under their stiletto heels, and actual fight for equality they would be a lot better

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  • Feminism will never stop wanting until white cis males are all dead and buried. It needs to end.

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  • Nigga! R. I. P, R. I. P. R. I. P, R. I. P.

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    • Jokes aside, I think it should be rebranded. Solely because of the negative connotation that is associated with feminism now a days. Even Katy Perry who is all about female empowerment doesn't associate with being a feminist because of how negative it has become. It should be rebranded and change "part" of it's methods and goals. I'm all for female empowerment, but it shouldn't be at the expense of men. Equal right shouldn't be about taking away from others to even the playing field.

  • in my opinion, it's fine as it is but a few things need tweeked.

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    • Which things for example?

    • Correction: A lot of things need tweeked in the internet feminist movement. I'm not completely sure how well/bad the real life movement is.

    • There should be more focus on the treatment of non-white women

  • Meh, they'll get bored in a decade or so.

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    • Hopefully. The Internet seems to have given them new life though. It lets them discuss things in 'female spaces' and come back to us with a load of half thought out theories.

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    • That's what everybody thought three decades ago.

    • Will you spare a minute to read this?

      www.theguardian.com/.../why-i-started-a-feminist-society

      (Also, I can't help but notice you sound like Mr. Pickles from Mission US. He said something similar about suffragettes.)

  • it should be called equalism, feminism is wanting women to be in control

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  • Anarcho-femminism is the only path that offers progress.

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  • Can we just kill of feminism and create a movement for equality in general?

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  • The simple fact of the matter is, for all the progress that's been made towards equality, men still don't treat women very well.

    As a man, I don't ever have to worry when I'm walking to my car at night. I don't have to use the "buddy system" or have another man walk me. I don't have to bunch my keys up between my fingers like a weapon "just in case".

    People automatically assume that I know what I'm talking about, because I'm a man. I don't get talked down to and I'm treated with respect. Women in my field are treated like amateurs and idiots regardless of their skill level. People come to me about tasks that are more in my female colleagues' area of expertise. My accomplishments don't get downplayed.

    I don't get catcalled walking down the street, or told to "smile more" like it's my fucking job to brighten up someone's day, and if I don't get called an asshole for not wanting to hear someone tell me that they want to have my babies.

    I can dress however the fuck I want and nobody says a goddamn thing. I'm not ever "asking for it" or "dressing slutty" no matter what I choose to wear.

    I can fuck around all I want and nobody thinks I'm a whore. In fact, it earns me praise from my peers.

    If some asshole is hitting on my girlfriend, and I walk over in the middle of it, he apologizes to ME like she's my fucking property. Because in his mind, she is.

    There's a simple fact that needs to be brought to light. The patriarchy exists, on an institutional level, and it negatively impacts both men and women. That's the thing that frustrates me about MRA's. They most often seek to invalidate feminism, instead of saying "yeah, that's a bunch of bullshit. Fuck that. And you know what? Fuck all this bullshit that affects men too. Let's join forces and fuck the patriarchy together".

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    • Men have issues too.

      "Let's join forces and fuck the patriarchy together"
      Feminism doesn't want to join forces. It's reluctant to even let men join. And the ones that do seem to be glorified unpaid labour.
      It also only wants to change the things that hurt women. Men's issues are either irrelevant or non-existent to them.

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    • To be fair, my experiences with dealing with people in general offline is limited. :P

      Are you saying the ones online are more likely to be the stereotypical feminist?

    • I'm saying that trolls of all forms exist on the internet, and you're far more likely to encounter "warrior" types who insist that their viewpoint is the only one that matters when they're sitting behind a keyboard. Because there are no checks, and no consequences. It's easy to be an asshole on the internet.

      Most people in general are much more reserved in person, and will think twice before spouting rampant stupidity.

      In my face-to-face conversations with feminists, I've never met one who even came close to saying "men don't have any problems" - they've all been quite reasonable in acknowledging that both sexes experience problems that stem from the same source.

  • Men and women should be equal they should not Bash back and forth for power and this goes along with race races should not Bash back and forward for power even passive aggressivly and what's up with girliness and manliness why do we even act different should a plug in cord have to live a completely different life than a socket (female) (male)

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  • They seem to have trouble comprehending that women use their equal rights to do with their lives as they please, and that this is reflected in society.

    I still need a good answer from the feminist movement, why very few women start businesses, and run them with success to become CEO's.
    I don't see any men rally to keep women from going into business... they're kinda busy building their own successes.

    Sure, it's a lot easier sticking your nose in a book for 4 years, then wave a college diploma and claim 'equality'... except social equality and the freedom of choice by equal rights kinda contradict each other.

    And social equality is even stretching it, as we don't see women lining up to work in sewage or construction... nor do we see any political pressure to make that happen.
    And conveniently overlooking the fact that homeless men outnumber homeless females 5 to 1... shouldn't we push for more female homeless people, or at least give some support to lift homeless men out the gutter?
    Or should they just quit whining, pull themselves together and take it like men?

    There's an eerie silence every time these questions come up... because nobody likes the answers... that women highly still seek the support and security that men provide, as far as financial security goes... because it's virtually risk free.
    And if not men directly, then at least the security that big daddy government provide, by redestributing money men have worked to earn.

    Really... if we really want equality, men should stop supporting women financially altogether... except the number of homeless women would explode, because it's a lot easier to push blame and rely on big daddy than start a business.

    Really, you claim to be a feminist?
    There are women being abused in third world countries abused on a daily basis, with no more rights than a stray dog... yet your main concern is not getting offered a CEO position because you spent 4 years in college, instead of getting off your ass and taking a real risk building your own business.
    Newsflash: Education doesn't entitle you to anything!
    You think a piece of paper makes you a good leader? Think again.
    A leader shows the way, by going forward building that god damn business from ground up, not by sitting on the ass waiting for someone else to do it, and then make demands.

    The level of self-centered entitlement needed for something like that... wow.
    Just wow...

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  • Glad to know a lot of men are back on their senses.

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    • Only 3 of 35 think there's nothing wrong with the movement and not one is a guy.

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    • A sample of the stupidity of mankind doesn't indulge people in more stupidity. After reading that, I still think feminism is a cheap ideology for the masses, and teenagers like you are buying it every day.

    • Okay, at least you read it. I hope you change your mind, you're not much older than me.

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