Murder or Suicide?

Which do you think is it?

Murder or Suicide?
Provide evidence for your answer. 👮


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Most Helpful Guy

  • Oh man. I fucking love these questions.

    Did you know I was working on a Detective Game online? Anyway. Okay.

    *cracks knuckles*

    Murder. Made to look like a suicide.

    A - There is no bullet hole, yet there's a splatter. An autopsy report would need to be made but going from just the scene, this was a murder made to look like a suicide.

    B - The blood splatter is too low for that to be a suicide. She either sat down on that stool in order to execute herself, or she was half squatting before executing herself. In the event of the former, the stool is much too far from the wall to have ended up that way. If she actually executed herself from that distance, the blood splatter would look VERY different, a larger, more spread out splatter. Not evenly grouped like that.

    C - Fleshing out the gun suicide even further. The gun is in her right hand. Which means she most likely fired on the RIGHT side of her head, with her left ear faced TOWARD the wall and the bullet going in. IF this was the case, her body would not be in the position. It would be slumped over in a very different position than the one she is in now. HOWEVER, if she fired through the front of her head or through her mouth with ONLY her right hand, with the back of her head facing the wall, this is the only way she could end up with a cigarette possibly still in her hand and her body sprawled in that position. I would need to see the exit would on her head to confirm which of these possibilities was the case.

    D - The cigarette is still in her hand. The only way this could happen is if the cigarette was either placed in her hand, or if the cigarette ended up in her hand via a natural force of movement (gravity, natural recoil of the body from force of the bullet). But for this to likely happen, she would have to have been shot in the head from the FRONT. Any other side would most likely result in the cigarette falling OUT of her hand. And since she is holding the gun with her RIGHT hand, this is most likely NOT the case.

    That's just a few, I would put more put, running out of space and don't want to go too into detail. I'm still sleepy.

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    • What do you think about the shell casing lying on the table?

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    • Oh, too bad.

    • I don't think it's a bullet casing on the table at all but apart of an ear piece to the glasses that are in the trash can.

Most Helpful Girl

  • Suicide. There is no evidence of a struggle other than possibly that turned over stool however that can easily be explained away. The blood splatter is quite centralized so the bullet was fired and hit at a close range to where the splatter is. The note on the desk could be a letter, I believe it most likely to be a suicide note.

    What I think happened.
    They were sitting on the stool, writing out the note, when finished they brought the gun up to their head, forehead I believe looking at the angle of that splatter, they had their back facing the wall, pulled the trigger, the force of the bullet pushing them off the stool causing it to topple and them to land on the floor in the position you see them in now.

    Also they are holding the gun. Which is the most obvious clue. The wine bottle in the bin could be a contributing factor as to the why. Along with the cigarettes. Though I would not class either as the leading cause, simply contributors.

    Did I get it right?

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    • You're right that the blood splatter is quite centralized, so he would have to have been at a close range to the splatter on the wall when the shot was fired. However, if you think that he was shot on the forehead while sitting down, facing opposite the wall, then he must've fallen backwards towards the wall and the chair would've likely fallen down along with him. Now if you imagine the chair upright before it fell to the ground, then you will see from where its legs are now that it would actually be standing farther off the wall than it does now, placing him farther away from the wall as well, and I think that's much too far for the shot to have created such a centralized blood splat on the wall.

What Guys Said 42

  • Without even articulating or being able to figure out the right words to say, I sensed intuitively that this didn't feel right like a true suicide. It reeks of a murder, staged to look like suicide.

    For starters, her grip on the gun appears to be too good. Most suicides have a harder time holding on to the gun once dead.

    Body placement is another thing. Most suicides don't happen in corners like that one. They find somewhere more open - or poetically significant - to end their lives. That awkward spot implies a crime of opportunity, not a suicide.

    The note, from this angle, also appears to be unfinished. Or sloppily-written. Possibly not hers. And we are only assuming it is a suicide note. She could just as easily have been writing a love letter, but we can't read in order to tell.

    Those books could possibly contain more of the same, and should be examined. This implies a jealous, scorned lover. So her romantic life should be the first thing detectives inquire about.

    However, if it is a murder, then it was definitely premeditated. If it were merely a spur-of-the-moment crime of passion, the executioner would not have timed his window of opportunity so cleanly, and would not have taken time to stage a suicide.

    A crime of passion would have involved him ripping up love letters everywhere, which would most certainly make him look guilty. He would have been trying to make a point about how worthless her affairs were to him.

    If it were a will or a business letter, then greed is the obvious motive. She was about to screw someone out of a lot of money, and they made their opinion be heard. But then went the coward route, and tried to stage it to look like a suicide.

    If it's a shopping list she were writing, then we possibly just have a random psychopath on the loose.

    If it's a comic book and she's writing down a formula for unlocking some alien secret, the not-quite-dead supervillain from season 1 has returned. Her death is revenge-by-proxy against the hero. Stuffed into the fridge. Staging suicide is some sort of poetic "justice."

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  • Suicide.
    Besides the obvious things, like gun in the hand and letter of goodbye on the table, one can notice that the bullet wound is in the head. Suicide victims rarely shoot through their clothes, and the fact that this is a headshot points towards suicide.

    The cigarette also points towards it, kind of like having a last smoke. Initially, I thought, "but couldn't that be staged as well?" However, looking at the tray, one could argue that she smoked quite a bit before the event occurred. If she was murdered, I'd imagine she'd have dropped the cigarette before being shot as well. The way the hand is contoured, I would think it'd be difficult to completely replicate that post death.

    It is a bit suspicious that the lamp isn't plugged in... and you imagine that a lamp would be on as you write your letter if you have trouble seeing (look at the glasses), but given the photo brightness, I'm guessing there is already plenty of light at the scene. The lamp doesn't give evidence that she was murdered.

    I saw someone argue with the flip flop being off her feet. Well, I would say that offers no evidence to anything. If she was murdered, a murderer would probably not want to touch the body and leave evidence behind. The murderer wouldn't take off a shoe or anything lol. If it was suicide the shoe wouldn't fall off either. Given the mess of the place, I wouldn't be surprised if the victim just left it there.

    The "never suicide" is a TV trope, and I would imagine that in reality, most cases that are clear suicides are actually suicides.

    For definitive proof, one would need to do a test on the hand and stuff for residue, but just looking at it, it appears to be a suicide. The picture at the very least points towards it. It'd be a lot easier if I knew where the bullet went through the head and such. You could match it with the blood stains and such.

    ---
    Given the blood stain being as high as it is, I would imagine she was sitting down, writing her letter and smoking. Then she shot herself. Then the body fell happened to fall towards the wall from unbalance. (The stool would naturally fall in the direction the body went).

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    • Which way do you think she was facing if she shot herself then?

  • Its hard to determine when you can't see the head. where is the entrance wound (are their marking like burns around the entrance wound suggesting close proximity) where is the exit wound where is the bullet hole in the wall is it at an angle or not etc. I would say with the incredibly limited data that it could be a suicide, however the angle of the body just doesn't seem right nor does the fact that the cigarette is still between the fingers, most would put down the cigarette out of habit. Plus with the stool knocked over and the glasses on the table with papers it suggest the victim was sitting at the counter before death yet if she shot with her right hand the blood splatter wouldn't be on the right wall but rather off panel to the left. It could be a suicide note (strange to get a can of coke while writing it) I can't tell if thats a bullet casing on the counter or not though if it is and it landed their that would mean it would have to have been fired with the right hand facing the counter since the casing is ejected on the right side of the gun (the only way for it to land on the counter naturally) but even that would still mean that the body is in the wrong spot as they would with the push from the gun to the head fall to the left. The body would have likely fallen on the side rather then back with the legs facing the side suggesting the body was turned over to perhaps examine the face and see if they where dead. However if some one came in and shot them they would have had to be on the left hand side and the stool would have had to have the victims head at shoulder level otherwise if it was lower the blood splatter woudl be lower or higher and the blood splatter would be higher. So unless I can see the scene in better detail it would be hard to say, but again it doesn't seem like it would be natural for the person to sit at the counter after writing then shoot themself in the head only after turning around since its the only explanation for the location of the blood splatter and location of the body (if that is not a bullet casing on the counter that is). So if I had to choose I would say murder as their are more points in that favor then against.

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  • I'm thinking murder. Why would you hold a cigarette while shooting yourself?

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  • Murder because only a murderer would take the time to draw the picture AND color it with watercolor pain before leaving the scene.

    Joking aside and if we presume that the investigators drew this, it is murder still. The last smoke and goodbye letter are fake since the murderer forgot to plug in the lamp. Why would she write in the dark? Even more so, if she were to write that letter while smoking the last cig, she would have sat facing the table, but by the looks of it, she was last sitting facing away from it. And how did that slipper end up there?

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  • looks like suicide. gun in hand. looks like the person may have been sitting on the stool and shot themselves in the face evidenced by the blood on the wall and window. unless someone was shot by someone high powered shotgun or at close range with handgun you most likely wouldn't get the exit wound of blood from a head shot as a result of murder

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    • A shot gun would have left a much bigger mess. That splatter is way too centralized to have been a super high powered weapon.

    • @BaileyisDarcy a shotgun from far away won't be that big of a mess. it depends on the distance of the shot... and that's also why i suggested that it was suicide with a hand gun because of the exit wound

  • Murder.

    The way she was sitting at that table, her ash tray and smokes pack is to her left, The same hand she also has a cig in her left hand, Which means the gun would of been on her right.

    BUT, The blood stain on the wall is ALSO on the right, When a bullet impacts the body, the majority of debris and blood is ejected out of the opposite side due to the momentum of the bullet, So, If she fired the gun from her right hand into her head, The blood stain on the wall should have been to the left of her, Not her right.

    Seems like someone shot her from her left side whilst she was sitting down facing the window and planted it on her right hand.

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  • Murder. With the gun in her right hand, she would have to be facing away from the counter to get the blood on the wall where it is. And who the heck would shoot them self while smoking a cigarette? And who would shoot them self in front of a window? That seems odd.

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  • Murder.
    Pen on the left side of the piece of paper suggests that she’s left handed. She’s also holding the cigarette with her left hand, astray is location on her left, coca cola can is also located on her left.
    It’s highly unlikely that a left-handed person would use their right hand to shoot herself.

    Furthermore, a suicide victim wouldn’t smoke while doing so.

    Now look at the blood splatter pattern against the wall. The spread of blood at the top portion of the pool indicates that the gun must’ve been fired at a steep upwards angle. She must’ve been close, she’s taller than the height of the smaller pattern to the ground, implying that she was sitting/squatting down when the gun was fired.
    Headshot was possibly deliberately to seem as if it were a suicide.

    Now assuming she was suicide. Visualise the position the seat would have been if it were upright. It’s too far from the splatter pattern. There is no conceivable way that the bullet would’ve have gone with a lower trajectory and create that blood pattern above. The slope of the trajectory would’ve been much higher and the above pattern wouldn’t have been possible.

    (Additional info: low caliber guns fired from afar don’t create large splats of blood, more like tiny circular dots of blood).

    Now look at the angle of her body along with the position of her slipper. It makes no sense for her body to be contorted in such a way if it were suicide. Her slippers points towards her, indicating that she may have been potentially attempting to twist her body and run in the opposite direction, from a potential attacker, kicking in in the process of running away.

    Conclusion: She was murdered. Only explanation of all the facts ;)

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    • Lol. It's a dude? xD Anyway, I get what you mean. I think you're right.
      I better head to bed now T. T

    • Yeah. :))

      I think you're right about him being too far from the blood splat though, not necessarily basing that on the chair, since there's a million possible ways it could've fallen, but on his body alone; he would have had to be sitting no nearer than where his butt is now. I would've imagined there to be a much scattered blood splat and not a very focused splatter on the wall if he were sitting that far.

  • What's weird for me is the gun is in the right hand, and the person was writing something before they died so why is the blood splatter on the right and the body fell to the right? Wouldn't someone finish writing and then kill themselves? Why turn around first? Shouldn't the bloodstain be on the left and the body falling to the left? Also the cigarrete is not smoked so if you kill yourself you either smoke the cigarette and then shoot yourself or you don't take it into your hand at all. The fact that it's not smoked but in the hand says to me that the person was shot unexpectedly. So I would tend towards murder but I can't say for sure, I'm not in the mood to keep thinkn about this now sry :P

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  • MURDER!
    Even in death women are too vein to shoot themselves in the head. It really doesn't look like her finger is in the trigger mechanism. She's left handed NOT right handed. Notice the cigarette in her left hand, her pen is on the left side of the desk as is her drink & ashtray.
    Without seeing her head I can't see if there's gunpowder stippling.

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  • Cool question!

    Ill say Murder 😈

    Why would the cigarette be in her hand like that?
    Based on the height of the blood splatter it looks like she was sitting on the chair facing sideways when she was shot. If she feel off the chair when shot I dont belive she would still have the gun and cigarette perfectly in her hands like that. It looks like someone shot her and then put the gun and cigarrette in her hands.

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    • Also it looks like the bullet came out the right side of her head which means the gun should be in the left hand 😦

    • Exit wound would only be on the right side of his head, if you assume that he was facing the desk when he was shot. The problem with that though is that it is very unlikely for his body to have twisted all 270 degrees as it fell off the chair and landed on the floor.

    • The killer repositioned the body!

  • Murder. The evidence is clear.

    >Splatter mark on right-hand wall and window
    >Gun in right hand
    >We know victim was facing the rear wall as her cigarettes and ash tray are on the desk, exactly lined up with where her lit cigarette (left hand) would be
    >How would one cause an exit wound on the right side of the head, with a gun in their right hand?
    >There is only one slipper, and it is impossible for it to have reached that location of its own volition
    >Where is the other one? Who moved that one?

    >>>More fundamentally --- who was at the scene whilst the cigarette was still lit to capture it? If the body had simply been discovered, the cigarette would have burned to the filter and went out. The fact that the cigarette is lit in the image tells us the person who captured it was there moments after the death>

    Conclusion - sloot got merked.

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  • elementary, my dear Watson. This woman was obviously murdered. she has a cigarette in her left hand, there is an ashtray on the left side of the desk, meaning she must have been facing the window when she was shot. she has a gun in her right hand, at first glance that makes it look like she shot herself, but nothing could be more wrong. we just established that she must have been facing the window, yet there is a bloodstain on the wall. the bloodstain is located on the wall to the right of the window, and the woman has a gun in her right hand, meaning that if she shot herself, she would have hit the right side of her head, leaving a bloodstain on the carpet. this woman was obviously shot from the left, yet she's holding the gun in her right hand. conclusion: someone shot her from the left, then placed the gun in her right hand to make it look like she commited suicide. now what we need to solve is, who fired the weapon?

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    • However, there are some other things i need to take into consideration. it's dark outside, yet the light is unplugged. why is the window half opened? the pen on the left side of the letter indicates that she was right handed. the letter is short, but she stopped writing. why? was the letter finished? or was she interupted by someone? she took her glasses off after writing that letter, so those glasses are most likely reading glasses. why is there only one slipper? and what is that small object lying in between the glasses and the lamp? a lighter? a gun shell?

  • murder. if it was a suicide, the gun wouldn't be in her hand, her torso wouldn't be facing up and he/she would have fallen directly under the blood splatter. same with the stool. it's in front of his/her butt so it either he or it got moved. actually, both. if she fell from the position from the stool, he/she would've hit her head on the wall as well.

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  • She was writing something, could be a suicide note, but then, how's the slipper facing her? And if she fall from the stool, why is the stool not closer to her?

    I go with murder.

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  • Probably murder as the cigarette is in the right hand, not many people smoke off handed, nor does hardly anyone shoot off handed. The person was probably facing the window (cigarette lines up with the ashtray) and the gunshot would have been right to left and the pattern doesn't suggest "blow back" so the gun is again in the wrong hand. Murder

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  • but how can we determine that without being able to examine the scene?

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    • There's a picture for you to examine. Gotta work with what you have.

  • The little evidence that's available points to suicide. The deceased has written a note, I'd say recently because the pen is still there. The discarded wine bottle suggests that he was drinking, alcohol is strongly associated with suicide. The cigarette in the left hand indicates the victim was enjoying a last cigarette. Maybe he was sick because someone has sent him flowers. The blood splatter indicates that he was probably still seated at the shelf on the stool, and that he shot himself in the head (possibly by placing the gun in his mouth) and the body was propelled backwards off the stool,, which then fell over. Classic suicide, or somebody wanted it to look that way.

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  • murder.
    everything points towards suicide but you don't take your last cigarette and don't finish it. also, it's highly unlikely that the she wouldn't let the cigarette drop and she holds the weapon in her right hand but the blood stain is on the right wall. so after finishing her letter she would have needed to change her position on the stool just to shoot herself. why would she do that? doesn't make sense

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  • I think murder.

    1. If you’re smoking your LAST cigarette, you’re going to finish it.

    2. The blood splatter on the wall seems too low and behind to be consistent with suicide. Most suicide victims shoot themselves through the mouth or on the temple.

    3. Also, the note there doesn’t seem to be finished.

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  • Murder, because she's holding gun in her right hand and she was sitting on the stool facing towards the table (why facing towards the table? Well her glasses are on the table)
    It cannot possibly plop her brain towards the window, unless she was shot from the left side.

    Thus it was a murder, someone killed her and put gun in her hand.

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    • by the way thus intelligence is inherited ;)
      Grandpa was a detective.

  • She has a gun in her hand. And she wrote something before the shot, maybe a suicide letter?

    There seems to be a beer and a pack of cigarrettes on the table, plus a bottle in the garbage can. Usually suicide perpetrators get really messed up before doing it, like Kurt Kubain. Seems a bit suspicious, we'll have to wait for the autopsy results to see if more drugs were involved.

    That's all I can tell at first sight though.

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  • Murder, she was sitting on the stool. somebody to the left of the picture shot her. 1. If she was siting in the stool With the gun being in her right hand why is the blood spatter on the right. If she shot herself the blood spatter would be on the left.
    2. For somebody who shot herself the gun is facing the wrong way.
    3. She would have dropped the cigarette if she shot herself.
    4. it night outside and the lamp is unplugged.

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  • A crime scene? Oh, exciting... ok.
    Without seeing the face, I can only rule a suicide based on the fact there was no struggle.
    A murder would show some signs of struggle.
    Blood splatter would suggest an upward spray coming from close range.

    HOWEVER!!!
    FINGER IS NOT ON TRIGGER!!! Even if hand let go, finger should still be in trigger guard.

    Conundrum.

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  • she fell on her back and the blood is directly behind her and she was smoking, so the shot came from directly infront of her and i doubt you continue smoking while killing yourself and people put the gun on the side of the head so she couldnt have done it.. even if she put it in her mouth the blood on the wall would be higher and she would have fell in a different way

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  • Murder.
    I don't think that chair was in the floor, so she was sit there.
    The gun would not be able to be on her hand because of the white table.

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    • Really nice Question, there should more like this one.

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    • Definitely a good possibility, do you know the answer?

    • Not definitively, and not the explanation for it either.

  • The stool knocked on the floor and the missing sandal hints towards a struggle being had. Though nothing conclusive whether to determine if this was indeed a murder framed to be a suicide or an actual suicide.

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  • Well she looks like she was sitting on the chair and the blood place shows that she was shot from a distance not a sucide

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  • Its a murder.
    Why wouuld someone kill themselves in the corners of the room when they had free space. A person takes corner only when frightened or running for life.

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What Girls Said 22

  • Murder.
    1: A person would not have a half finished cigarette in their hand if they were intending on committing suicide. Also, if she shot herself she would have dropped it. That cigarette has been placed
    2: the gun is in the hand closest to the blood spatter. In order to get that kind of spray you would have to shoot from the front. The way that she's holding the gun, it would be awkward to put a gun to your temple and do it. She has a good grip on that gun but!
    3: her finger isn't on the trigger!
    4: The pen on her desk is angled weird. If she is left handed (like the angle would suggest) why did she shoot herself with her right hand?
    5: Body is laying too carefully for it to be a suicide. Her right arm is laying at an unnatural angle. If she shot herself, in order for the blood splatter to be the way that it is and the chair to fall the way that it has, she would have had to read across her body to shoot herself in the temple OR turned her head so that she could shoot herself in the forehead. She would have to be all sorts of tangled up to get the stool to fall the way it did. I'm not actually sure if the stool COULD fall like that if it were a suicide. Which leads to
    6: I'm pretty sure that stool has been placed.

    Sidebar: where is her other shoe? And why is the lamp unplugged?

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    • Yep, she has a good grip on the gun, but her finger isn't on the trigger when it should have an even tighter grip on it now.

      The missing shoe's another thing that makes it suspicious. The picture isn't cropped, as far as I know. Can't think of a concrete reason for the lamp either.

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    • I don't think so, no. I would think it latches completely at a 90 degree angle. I don't think that has anything to do with the crime scene though. :?

    • It probably doesn't, but it does make me curious

  • Suicide points - gun in hand, suicide note, right bloodstain for the height, BUT
    the person is obviously left handed, since the pen is on the left side of the paper and she's smoking with her left hand - people kill themselves with their dominant hand + it's much more likely for a woman to kill herself with pills or something where she won't disfigure herself in the process...
    The window is poorly closed - half close or half open - I don't know if that plays any roll in this... buuuut;
    I say it was murder.

    Am I right? =)

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    • I'd say he's right-handed, going by the pen, actually. And the window looks completely shut to me. X)

    • That's a he? o. O I can't say I agree... but hey, everyone sees it differently I guess. Even though it should be completely objective.

  • Murder because her chair fell off and there's blood on the wall. So I am gonna assume if she wanted to kill herself she would have stood up! lol and the the chair would still be up!

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  • Murder:
    -She was doing something at the moment of her death: writing and smoking.
    -To get the blood stain where it is, she would've have tu turn to the side to shoot herself. It's a really awkward angle and she wouldn't have been able to do it so easily with the right hand because of where the table is. My hypotesis is she turned around because she saw the killer coming and they shot her. The splatter shows the shot came from the opposite side.
    -The position of the body doesn't look natural, specially because of the shape of the splatter. They might've moved the body to make it look like a suicide.
    -Look at the pen, she's obviously left handed.
    -The way she's holding the gun doesn't look normal either. It wouldn't have fallen in that way if she shot herself. her finger doesn't even seem to be on the trigger.

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  • she's smoking with the left right, so she would kill herself with the same head, so murder

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  • Murder. Because the blood spatter is on the wall behind her. When people shoot themselves, they typically target the sides of their heads. So that would make the blood spatter be on the wall on the right side of the picture and on the flowers.

    Oh and also, if I were to shoot my own b rains out, i would want to finish the cigarettes first and enjoy every drag of it

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  • Murder. The gun is in her right hand so the exit wound should be through the left side of her head. But it's not because the blood spatter is on her right (assuming she was facing the window) It does not make sense to shoot yourself while you are a taking a smoke. Since she is on her back, it appears her back was facing the wall.

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  • It looks like suicide because the person looks like he/she (I can't determine by this pic) is holding a gun in his/her right hand.

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  • You can't tell from that pic. You can't see a gunshot wound on the body. But then again, it's Monday, so my brain hasn't fully engaged for the week. :)

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  • Looks fishy, spatter marks aren't coming from the proper direction had she done it herself... seems the corpse has been moved.

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  • it's a (not too) cleverly staged murder.

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  • OK my opinion is murder.
    Firstly, she has a cigarette in her hand, it seems odd that you'd kill yourself holding a cigarette. Secondly, the stool has been kicked over so there's the possibility that the victim was unsuspecting of the murderer. Then there's also the case that the victims hand is pointed away from the body, if this was suicide, wouldn't the victims hand be facing the victims body?

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    • in addition to this the gun is in her right hand and the blood marks are also on the right hand side of the room. Her body is in an awkward position for it to be a suicide

  • I would say murder, staged as suicide. The cigarette and gun would not still be in her hands if she shot herself and was thrown backwards from the impact, unless someone put them there.

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  • Murder. Who smokes a cigarette whilst they're trying to commit suicide?

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  • Murder.

    The gun would have fallen out of their hand if it was suicide. Also they would have finished the fag first.

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    • Actually, the hand stiffens up when you die, especially if it was in a violent way.

  • Suicide because the dead girl has a gun in her own hand.

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  • Murder. The blood is behind her on the wall. If it were suicide it would not be there but on the table and mostly on the yellow cupboard.

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  • Murder because of the hand the gun is in and the blood on the wall. The cigerett in her hand says she was sitting toward the desk therefore it not being suicide

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  • Murder, and not a very well planned one.

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    • This person is clearly left handed, so why would he shoot himself with the right hand? And if he was sitting on the chair, shooting himself with the right hand then how did the splatter end up where it is? Makes no sense. Also why would he shoot himself in the middle of smoking a cig and where is the other shoe?

  • Well i think... if am not wrong... it's a suicide!!!

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  • Murder. There appears to be too much mess for it to be a clean suicide

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  • Murder.

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