Thoughts on gender neutral pronouns?

The main purpose of this is to hear some of your opinions on and start a discussion about hearing and reading GN pronouns in everyday life/literature.
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Honestly, they bug me. I know I'm probably going to get some hate for sharing my opinion just because it happens to go against the new PC world order for modern thinking, positivity, equality and all that... but come on... really?

It's one thing to not personally identify as either gender mentally, but you still technically have a definitive physical gender whether you agree with it or not (be it before or after a surgery or whatever) So unless you are a hermaphrodite or someone who literally has no genitals... then you have a gender.

PS. I'm just butthurt cause my mental fanfiction reading stream is constantly interrupted by foreign pronouns that pause in my train of thought and knock me off track.

  • I am happy gender neutral people are finally being recognized. :)
    26% (14)10% (7)17% (21)Vote
  • I find gender neutral pronouns sort of silly, but understand why they are important.
    11% (6)1% (1)6% (7)Vote
  • Gender neutral pronouns are ridiculous and they bug me.
    35% (19)57% (38)47% (57)Vote
  • I don't really care
    15% (8)19% (13)17% (21)Vote
  • Wait, this is a thing now?
    13% (7)13% (8)13% (15)Vote
And you are? I'm a GirlI'm a Guy

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Most Helpful Guy

  • It's stupid, but I need to warn people, especially you Americans, about having a "live and let live" stance on this. This live and let live stance in Canada led to what is now bill c-16, which will make it a criminal act to misgender people, leading to a fine of up to 250k. Surprised? You shouldn't be. By now you must know that regressive liberals always have to force their views upon you one way or another. It's not good enough for them to believe in their own nonsense. YOU now MUST believe in it too. There are now some talks of bringing a similar law to the US, so I suggest you Americans start taking this seriously... because having a neutral stance will likely end in having a similar bill enacted in your country

    You've been warned

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    • 1mo

      100% of what you just said was based on the idea of the slippery slope, which doesn't happen to be a valid argument.

    • 28d

      Lmao what the shit that really sucks

    • 28d

      @cipher42 well you know what they say... those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it

Most Helpful Girl

  • I think if a person requests gender neutral pronouns it's a pointlessly dick move to use gendered pronouns towards them - it's antagonistic and contemptuous.

    However, there have also been some instances in which professors have been told they must use only gender neutral pronouns in class regardless of who they're speaking to or about, which is ridiculous. Most people are comfortable with and prefer being referred to by gendered pronouns and it serves no purpose to try to erase gender for no reason.

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    • 1mo

      "them" is plural though :(

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    • 1mo

      @zoooot

      That's not how language works dude... you can't just make something up and pretend it means something. Language is a collaborative development. Common usage, in English, dictates the meaning of a word. Key word here: COMMON.

      The use of them and they as singular has been common usage for a very long time.

    • 1mo

      Basically what she said. You're using a word correctly provided that word is widely used enough that you'd be widely understood. The way you used those words was not a way in which they are widely used nor a way that would be widely understood.

What Guys Said 30

  • They're an abomination and kind of a result of an unregulated left that went out of control. They've gotten crazier and crazier the moment the right decided to step out from public discourse.

    The modern LGBTQX** "X" gender or "I lack a gender" (arising out of germany and soon to be adopted by Canada.

    Canada already has 6 genders to, with x gender being included soon. here's hoping if Hilary becomes president she won't be Obama on steroids.

    - More language policing
    - more black lives matter
    - more transgendered bathrooms
    - more gendere pronouns
    - more feminism
    - more designer babies
    - more food stamps
    - more nanny state
    - more liberal
    x 10

    Welcome to the liberal Utopia
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKcWu0tsiZM&t=6s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOMpxsiUg2Q

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  • Its fucking retarded. You're either male or female. Full stop. Whether you identify with what society typifies as masculine or feminine is irrelevant to the type of genitialia between your legs. Why the fuck are we allowing people to introduce new words into the English language because they don't feel 'represented'? There's how many pronouns to describe transgender people? Why do they need so many? How come we don't have a half dozen pronouns to describe males?

    My biggest gripe is all these new words are without meaning. How is one transgender pronoun different than the others? Without unequivocal meaning, words are useless. So why are people telling us we need to refer to them as such and such without giving us meaning to the words so we know how to properly use them. If transgender people want their own word because they don't identify as a "he" or a "she" then sure, I'll grudgingly give them that. But they only get one word to describe them all. Just like "he" describes males and "she" describes females, transgender should only get one word. Anything more is just an abuse of our pathetic, flaccid system. But quite frankly, they shouldn't even get that. Gender, in the sense of sex, is binary.

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  • I think they are dumb.

    People try to say gender is what you identify as while sex is what you physically are. However, if gender is divided into all these arbitrary categories of which their only requirement is to "identify as such" then gender is just a pointless term to me.

    So fine, lets just stop using gender and only use biological sex to refer to people.

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  • It's plain and simply stupid and ridiculous. There are two sexes. Male and female. If some special snowflakes identify as otherkin or whatever bonkers shit is not societies issue and shouldn't be made into it. These people don't need gender neutral pronouns, but serious mental help.

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  • I won't be using gender neutral pronouns. Everyone has a gender, so I would be using the typical gender pronouns.
    If you're trans I don't mind treating you as the gender you're transitioning too, even though I will always consider you the way you were born. But gender neutral pronouns? No, cause everyone has a gender... and there are only 2 genders.

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  • I voted "I don't really care". It's completely normal to use singular they in conversations depending on the context. I don't mind it, but it can get really confusing when you're talking about multiple people and using "they" for each one of them separately.

    It does actually irritate me when people really insist on being called a certain pronoun and get upset when people don't. It's like get a grip, if you can't deal with the pronoun people call you, you definitely can't deal with reality as a whole... it seems indicative of mental health issues.

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    • 1mo

      In contexts where you're speaking of a hypothetical situation or where you're referring to some ambiguous person / literally don't know the person's gender, then "they" makes perfect sense

  • Yep, it seems like instead of advancing... humanity is spazzing out quite frankly. For me, the train stops at transgender. All that "they, them, X, xhe, Yze," shit? maaaaaaaan, look here lol... NO.

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  • I've been pushing for one for a long, long time. In college, having to read the inelegant construct "he or she" and "him or her" would just irk me to no end. Almost as bad would be papers that would alternate male/female pronouns where they would call someone "he" first, then "she" next and so on. Just come up with a new pronoun and let's use that.

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    • 1mo

      Lol people actually did that? I can see why anybody could get pissed off with how wishywashy these people must have sounded constantly jumping between him and her, he and she, and so on. Why not just use the word "they"? It's a GN pronoun that has existed for years before all of this zie-zim-zir, nonsense. (though reading "they" instead of singular he or she also bugs me)

    • 1mo

      Yeah, I live on the west coast so maybe we're more liberal out here, but when I did undergrad, they would do "he or she" and by the time I was getting my masters, they were alternating. I actually use "they" myself, but it gets flagged by grammar checks so it's apparently not grammatically correct (for the singular/plural reasons that you mentioned).

  • Some years back my country (Sweden) introduced the new gender neutral word "hen". A male would typically be called Han (He) and a female Hon (She) but we were now faced with a new gender neutral word. One that I was, in all due honesty, opposed to.

    In my head it would be used everyday about everyone and whilst that might be pleasant for a very small minority it would certainly be a nuisance towards the vast majority. Then reality came. The word was, of course, adapted to our vocabulary and is now commonly used.
    However, the word itself is practically only used when we either do not know the sex or it is of absolutely no significance. Picture yourself lost at the hospital looking for someone who you only have the last name of. Those situations. So essentially it substitutes for "that person". It actually ended up being a useful addition to the vocabulary. Frequent use of it was a short-lived fad.

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  • Lol no I don't I don't like political correctness and I don't use gender neutral pronouns your either man or a women.

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  • I dont really care.
    I can actually see advantages to having a set of GN pronouns. Like another poster it can help when the gender isn't known (you dont know the person) or to be inclusive/referring to anyone. Better than 'he or she' or incorrectly using other pronouns.
    Other languages have it. I see this as an evolution in English

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  • Personally, I find it feels awkward to refer to someone as "they" or "them", but that's more of just a grammar thing. But, using it is what will make it feel natural! I'll refer to you however you want, just don't be offended if I slip up occasionally. Old habits die hard.

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  • Gender neutral pronouns are about the only thing about this whole mess that I am actually okay with; as long as it is handled maturely. We have no gender neutral personal pronoun in the English language, and we don't need it. But it wouldn't hurt to add one, and not just because of the whole trans nonsense.

    But I will NOT stand for people being PUNISHED for using the wrong pronoun, multiple gender neutral pronouns (make one and stick with it), pronouns for made up genders, etc.

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    • 1mo

      Actually yes we do. The word "they" can be and often is used in the singular context. There is also "it" which is technically gender neutral but gives off a feeling of "subpar-ness" or "less than human" and therefore isn't taken very well.

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    • 1mo

      @cipher42 it is not widely used, hence the confusion of everyone who isn't a part of this movement. Try using they as a singular personal pronoun in any English class and see if the teacher doesn't take off points. And just because something is widely used doesn't make it proper English; Ebonics is not considered proper English despite being spoken by millions. Instead, it is seen as a dialect. Maybe there are some regional dialects that commonly use they as singular pronoun, but that still doee not make it correct formal English. Trust me: as someone with a family that literally has three generations of English teachers, I never hear the end of it.

      Using a dictionary as a definitive guide is not a good idea for the reasons I have already explained. Keep in mind that even the Oxford English Dictionary has included words such as "chillax", "bromance", "droolworthy", "grrrl", "po-po", "obvs", "Totes", and "truthiness".

    • 1mo

      @fibbet: it is absolutely widely used, at least I certainly hear it used plenty. And i have used it in an English class many times and been absolutely fine. In fact, I've had linguistics classes where the professor has endorsed the use of singular they. And if something is widely used and widely understood, that's the very way that we determine whether it is proper English. For instance, the definition of literally in the dictionary was changed because people misused it so much it became proper English. Because as I said, English is descriptive and not prescriptive.

      Where exactly do you draw the line between proper and improper English then? How do you account for the fact that language absolutely changes over time due to the very way it functions?

  • I couldn't give less, of a shit what people do. If people wanna use made up pronouns, go ham. If they don't, cool. It's not hurting me so no need to get butthurt about it like everyone else

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    • 1mo

      Well, the problem is that for some of us, it actually will start affecting our lives. Here in Canada, our liberal government is trying to push through a law that will push through a law making it a criminal act to misgender people by using their incorrect pronouns. You can be fined 250k for it. It's been a huge topic of controversy here, and a professor at my old university may loose his job for not agreeing with it. And by the way, there's bern talk of bringing a similar law to the US

  • I believe people should just have the choice of whether they want a gender neutral pronoun. I don't like the idea of being forced to conform to something.

    BTW: I am liberal who completely supports LGBTQ, so I'm not saying being transgendered is wrong, I just believe people should have a choice for title and not be told what to call themselves or each other.

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  • I honestly don't really mind no skin of my nose

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  • I honestly don't give enough of a shit either way but the people that get offended over misgendering are generally the type of people that I like to piss of (ie easily offended morons)

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  • I think they are very stupid.

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  • dont be gay...
    this is how we say, this is ridiculous. till shit went stupid a couple years ago.

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  • It's pathetic that some places enforce this.

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  • I call everyone mate, I don't care.

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  • ridiculous bullshit

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  • Beyond stupid. You're either a man or a woman. Not both, and you can't switch, either.

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  • Gender neutral pronouns are horrendous. Ugh.

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  • I'm annoyed because gender neutral are very imprecise. You are boy or girl like what are you.

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  • People can invent words but i am free not to use them. I cannot be forced to use certain words.

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  • It's stupid. If you're born with a dick then you're a boy, if you're born with a pocket between your legs then you're a girl. people need to accept reality and what is. the problem today is a lot of people want to act like faggots and be sensitive about everything.

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  • Just more stupid political correctness

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  • They are retarded. AND NO, they are not "a thing now".

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  • its mildly ironic for an American to be annoyed at people using words incorrectly

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    • 1mo

      What nationality are you Anon? :)

      ~Live to make others laugh (or lightly chuckle... whatever floats your boat)

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    • 1mo

      i hate people who use that argument
      "it doesn't matter i use the wrong words, i am evolving my language"
      ok then, no need to discuss anything then, you are perfect

    • 1mo

      lmao right?

What Girls Said 13

  • Thing is, gender and sex are separate (ish). Sex is physical body. Gender is mental/societal identity. There is no such thing as a physical gender. Most of what gender is is made up of the roles that society put in place for the different sexes, but at this point it's pretty much been recognized that gender is separate and more fluid than sex. (Though sex itself is more complicated than usually presented itself). In fact, this isn't even "modern thinking". Many societies well predating and distinctly different from our own have the concept of a "third gender". It makes sense that you don't understand it, considering the rhetoric about sex/gender we're taught basically constantly in our lives, but that doesn't mean it's not true.

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    • 28d

      I understand what you're saying. But don't you think the explanation is a bit uncalled for? I understand that there is a difference between sex and gender but while writing this it didn't occur to me to write the word sex instead of physical gender even though it is completely obvious by the context that that is the word I meant by writing physical gender. Just like I've been conditioned to think in terms of gender instead of sex, I would also probably use he or she, instead of the words ne or ze because I am more used to them.

      Point is, the explanation was unnecessary. You know what I meant by 'physical gender'.

      (My dad does the same thing to me. Instead of race we need to say ethnicity, because we're all one race, the human race... shut up dad you know what I meant and you're being an ass)

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    • 27d

      In the context of grammar though, you are correct. When referring to gender in a grammatical sense it does not refer solely to ones sex but also includes GN pronouns.

      I'm not suggesting that people aren't gender neutral in anyway and never have.

    • 27d

      I think the reason people want to use gender neutral pronouns other than them is cause to a lot of people, "they" can be confusing since it's plural so they want a neutral pronoun that doesn't have that issue

  • Meh, I don't care. I'm not particularly for them or against them. I had a friend who preferred being referred to with they/them/their pronouns and I was fine with doing that for them even f I didn't totally understand it. Hey, whatever makes them happy as long as it doesn't harm anyone else is cool with me.

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  • If these people are bothered so much and really want to be referred to that way, it's fine by me, I'll try to use a gender neutral pronoun. Despite that it will be a bit tricky for me because I'm not used to using the pronoun 'they' for a single person.
    With that said, people should understand that we are so used to saying 'he' or 'she' for singular, mistakes will happen. One day I might forget and not call you in the pronoun that you want. Hopefully, it is tolerable.
    I know it's confusing but let's just try to satisfy them and say what they want to hear. Let's be the bigger people, if you know what I mean.

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  • Would never use them.

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  • let me be frank. gender neutral pronouns, gender pronouns (the 76 one's), and pc culture are ridiculous, obnoxious, and a waste of people's time.

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  • Wow yea I don't know what the world is coming to! Sorry but if you look like a man I'm calling you a he and vice versa. Don't really care who gets pissed. To me a male baby is and should be male and a female baby should be a female when grown. Yep. I don't understand why some want to change their gender and I never will.

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  • If you're talking about pronouns like "they/their", I don't mind since I even use it in cases where I don't know the gender of the person I'm referring to.

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  • I agree with you.

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  • What on earth are you talking about?

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  • They 'bug' you. Tell me how this affects your life at all. It's saying they instead of he/she. It's hardly making a huge effort

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    • 1mo

      lol did you even read the bottom of my post? or did you just get triggered and jump to replying the way I got butthurt at reading ne and nir over and over again?

      It's not a huge effort I agree. But that doesn't mean it still wouldn't mess with my train of thought when foreign words are suddenly thrown into place of the more common he or she that I grew up using and am thoroughly accommodated with. Hence, it 'bugs' me. I can't control whether or not it bugs me, but I can control how it bugging me effects my interactions with others, and if a friend were to suddenly tell me they prefer to be referred to in GN then sure I'll -grudgingly- give it a go... for them.

    • 1mo

      I wasn't aiming it at you so you're the one that's getting triggered not me

    • 1mo

      nah, not triggered per se, just self-conscious and feeling the need to explain my thoughts so there is no confusion. :) I like to be clear about my intentions and feelings.

  • I really don't care. If you want me to call you 'ze' then so be it.

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  • stupid political correctness, to me people are just sentient meatbags.

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  • I don't understand how someobdy could get bugged and annoyed by something like this. It's their mind and body, respect that, and respect how they want to be reffered to as. Life sucks, let the enjoy who they are.

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    • 1mo

      similarly, why should they care? its just a word

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    • 1mo

      Interestingly, the left loves particular things, Islam is the new gay, Islam, above blacks, above gays, and above Jews. The problem is Islam wants to kill everyone else on the ladder. The problem with hte left is they seperated people through identity politics and this is the shit we have to deal with now rather than being together

    • 1mo

      shit... i lost the rest of what i wrote... alright lol

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