Need to move out of the U.S. to feel safe?!

As most know, there has been a lot of gun violence around the country, especially in our schools. The tragedy in Newtown, CT was just terrible, and just yesterday a student bought a gun to my former high school. Luckily no one was hurt and they were able to put the student in custody before anything happened, but it was still a scary thought.

I remember when I was younger, my parents used to tell me that school was the safest place! And I guess it was true at the time, but not anymore.

I do want to have kids someday and I'm starting to wonder if I would feel safe sending those kids to school in the U.S. with everything going on.

I was wondering if others felt the same way? Or if anyone who lives in another country would have insight about what it's like there?

I'm just interested to see how other people feel!

Side note: I had the opportunity to study abroad in the Netherlands during my college career, and I LOVED it. I was even there during the world cup a couple of years ago and there was never one time where I felt unsafe. Even when I was surrounded by 200,000 other crazy soccer fans in one area. And another thing I remembered is that most cops didn't even CARRY guns!

  • I would consider living abroad
    Vote A
  • Other countries aren't much better
    Vote B
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Most Helpful Guy

  • I'm not voting because I believe that you can feel safer in other countries but they may also have negatives that would impact your life in non-violent ways

    I totally hear you about being nervous about having kids. For me though I'm nervous in so many ways including but not exclusive to gun violence. Bullying seems to be a larger and more serious and dangerous problem. We live in a world where children are forced to grow up and deal with increasingly more and more mature issues than when I was a child. So you have many things to be concerned about and then you factor in gun violence and you just almost feel like do you want kids in this world.

    I know there are safer places to live. I've lived in Thailand and Italy and both have very strict gun laws and children literally could walk miles to school and there was never a fear of violence, abduction etc. However at the same time I still feel that America offers one of the better educations and better opportunities so you kind of have to just make a decision.

    Safety vs potentially better education/options/opportunities.

    Also just consider that perhaps with what looks like new gun laws that the landscape may change significantly. Hopefully our country can use the recent violent activities to start on a path towards a safer environment. Often it takes a big event like Newtown to really spur action

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    • Well the education depends on where you move. Yes there is worse education in Italy and Thailand than US, but there are many places where it's better and cheaper. BUT then there are the other problems like the anon user stated (language for example)

    • Better education makes language issues not so much an issue. Especially since many in those nations do speak English as well.

    • I agree. I think to larger point I was making is that there are issues in every country. Many people still see America as the best land of opportunity so you kind of have to make the decision of what you want most, what is less important.

      I wouldn't make a decision to move SOLELY on the current school gun violence issues.

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What Guys Said 19

  • The thing you have to remember its not the gun its the people. Because many good citizens have guns and carry guns our crime rate is much lower than most of the world most gun violence and mass shootings are because of anti-gun zones and unstable people. Instead of moving you should just use your constitutional right to bear arms and defend yourself.

    Also worth noting the US like many other places is what you make of it.

    Annual homicide rate for firearms

    Because the U.S. is so big, it's better to compare the frequency of firearm homicides per capita, usually expressed as firearm homicides per 100,000 in national population.

    According to the U.N., the U.S. had 3.0 firearm homicides per 100,000 in population in 2009. But there were 14 other nations that had higher rates in 2009, primarily in Latin America and the Caribbean: Honduras (57.6), Jamaica (47.2), St. Kitts and Nevis (44.4), Venezuela (39.0), Guatemala (38.5), Colombia (28.1), Trinidad & Tobago (27.3), Panama (19.3), Dominican Republic (16.9), Bahamas (15.4), Belize (15.4), Mexico (7.9), Paraguay (7.3) and Nicaragua (5.9). Three other nations had higher rates in 2008: El Salvador (39.9), Brazil (18.1) and Ecuador (12.7).

    So the U.S. doesn’t rank no. one when firearm homicides are adjusted for population.

    (politifact.com)

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    • "14 other nations had higher rates" - so that's 14 out of 193 UN member states, and all of those are in the developing world. You must be so proud...

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    • Actually the definition of "violent crime" is completely different in the two countries, so when you look at the statistics, you're comparing apples and oranges. More than half of all "violent crime" in the UK involves no injury whatsoever, and would not be classified as violent crime in the US. Burglary, car / bicycle theft, domestic abuse and all sexual offenses (incl. soliciting a prostitute, underage sex, etc) are classified as violent crimes in the UK but not the US.

    • As for the comment about the different states - that's pretty obvious. All it's going to show is that the more densely populated / urbanized states and those with higher poverty rates, are going to have much higher violent crime rates (even per capita) than rural states. It's the same in any country - London always drags down the overall UK statistics in pretty much any category you care to look at.

  • Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, TWO men working together, killed 168 people and injured another 800, and their attack lasted a split second. They didn't use guns, they used a bomb. And bombs are surprisingly easy to make.

    What's my point? It's that these are acts of domestic terror. The tools they use are irrelevant, and this example shows you don't need guns to kill a bunch of people.

    And as others have pointed out, such terroristic acts such as Newtown are VERY uncommon even in the US. The vast majority of gun-related crime is criminal vs. criminal, and it pretty easily avoided by staying away from criminal hot-spots: places where gangs and drug sales routinely happen.

    It must also be noted that these criminals almost never attack anyplace that people are likely to have guns of their own; they invariably choose "Gun-Free Zones" because they know that the law-abiding people will be unarmed and unable to defend themselves. You should really THINK about that fact for a minute.

    Criminals and evil people will ALWAYS have weapons. In England, for example, were legal guns are rare and very restricted, high-level criminals simply import guns illegally from Eastern Europe, and low-level criminals use knives, bats, crowbars, and other such weapons. Another fun fact: you are much less likely to survive a knife wound than a gunshot wound. Someone else already mentioned that they send kids to school with stab-vests in parts of England.

    Yes, there are a few small, homogeneous countries where crime is very low, but those countries are relatively wealthy and allow VERY little immigration, and then only take "preferred" candidates. The US allows immigrants from all over the world, including TONS of criminals that come in illegally over the southern border (Mexican and Central American authorities are happy to let them go, too). We have major culture and economic difference in the US as a result of this that other countries simply don't have, so you can't compare them directly. But even then, your average suburban area is FAR safer than most of the world. Until you've traveled and seen the world for yourself, you simply don't understand that.

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  • Please stop and think for a moment.

    The media is VERY good at artificially amplifying bad news, its sells, it gets people's attention, which means more ratings which means more money for them.

    So now, look at the facts, crime in the US at a 50-year low, you're far safer now than you were 20 years ago, crime is down 39% and mass shootings are actually becoming less common, not more. This is all according to a DOJ report released in April 2013.

    Israel had a major terrorist attack on a school in 1976 (I think it was 1976), they responded not by trying to take everybody's guns away, but by giving teachers and school administrators training on how to provide armed resistance to such attacks, they armed them with rifles and added armed security. There have been zero attacks on schools in Israel since.

    For another related example, prior to 1993, there were exactly zero shootings on US military bases. In 1993 then-President Bill Clinton banned military personnel (minus military police) from carrying guns on base, there have been 16 shootings on US military bases since.

    You have no right to feel safe, and not having guns around does not make you safer, it is arguable that it actually makes you LESS safe given all the evidence. There are about 10,000,000 people in the US who carry concealed guns every day, name a single one who has shot somebody unprovoked.

    The media is blowing the whole thing up, don't let it stress you out, it's heavily artificial, reality buried in layers upon layers of sensationalism. Telling what happened is reporting the news, repeating certain facts continuously while not mentioning others is propaganda.

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  • Other countries are safer from gun violence, but there's still violence sooo.. depends. When you get shot in gun violence you're more likely to die than other violent related crimes, but ya...

    I'd rather just improve things here. And I do think the first step is educating gun owners on proper usage as well as more improvements to our mental health care system (I still don't get why we have standard physical body doctors we go to yearly, well many of our people, not everyone, yet seeking a mental doctor still has negative connotations or isn't covered as well with insurances), and I think we need mandatory background checks and finally I'd say the economy needs to be improved (fix the income inequality disparity a bit more and the wealth should be a lot more fair, not 43% to the top 1%... or even more disgusting, one family having like 20% of the nation's wealth). That's the areas I'd start that would greatly help reduce gun violence and, well, really violence over all.

    After that? We definitely need to get our culture to stop glorifying violence.

    So much to do, but much of it is gonna take awhile.

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  • I like guns but I absolutely despite gun nuts. Not for being gun nuts, but for what their lack of reasoning represents. That lack of thought is the catalyst for tyrannical control from the ruling class. These morons are fine parroting whatever the NRA propagandized out there, on behalf of the gun industry. This is the same herd mentality that had a bunch of people squawking about corrupt bank bailouts being necessary, without actually profiting from the theft themselves.

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  • Reported by United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime

    Assults per 100,000 people 2010

    UK

    731

    Aus

    323

    USA

    250

    So which country is the most violent? You guessed it UK

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  • I guarantee that China has no guns. If a zombie apocalypse starts, there will be a lot of undead asians. I live in Texas where practically everyone I know owns guns. I'm not scared. You shouldn't be scared either. Be strong (:

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  • First, you're getting overly paranoid about gun violence in this country. The constant media attention is skewing your perception of reality.

    I have two children that I love dearly that I send to public school every day. Do I worry about something happening to them? Absolutely.

    However, they're much more likely to die in a car wreck or by falling down the stairs than they are in school.

    If you think the US is the most dangerous country in the world, you really need to start doing some research.

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    • Actually...

      link

      In some states gun deaths exceed car deaths.

      And by 2015 projections show that it'll be nationwide true:

      link

      Sooo things to consider.

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    • Ok, let's compare gun deaths to gun ownership. Is that better? There were 31,000 gun deaths (rounding) in the US in 2010. That includes accidents and suicides. Neither of which I feel should be included - but let's just give you that. There are 270,000,000 guns in the united states. So, that means that compared to the number of guns in the country, that means that .01% of them were actually used to kill another person. By accident or not.

    • @ TheGodEmperor. You realize comparing the projections of gun deaths vs car deaths isn't very applicable? Cars are becoming more advanced with airbag tech and other safety devices. There is no airbag on gun control. So as the deaths/accident for cars goes down, the deaths/gun rate will remain relatively constant--only growing by population size.

  • I'm afraid the US is just not a very safe place by the standards of the developed world.

    Obviously there are going to be some dodgy parts of town wherever you are in the world, but generally speaking, the UK is very safe.

    -- Annual deaths per thousand people (source: World Health Organization) --

    Violence (not just gun crime):

    USA - 6.2

    UK - 1.1

    CAN - 1.6

    NED - 0.9

    AUS - 1.2

    Road traffic accidents:

    USA - 14.5

    UK - 5.0

    CAN - 8.4

    NED - 4.4

    AUS - 7.0

    Infectious diseases:

    USA - 22.9

    UK - 13.4

    CAN - 12.8

    NED - 13.0

    AUS - 10.1

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    • These statistics seem questionable possibly out of date. Eitherway freedom is sometime most of those other countries don't have fully also I know the AUS stats are BS ... Do not just listen to this guy do the research for yourself.

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    • As for the comment about freedom - well, it's a pretty subjective thing. Up until the 13th amendment, Americans had the freedom to keep slaves. You might want the freedom to own a gun - someone else else might want the freedom to send their child to school and not have to worry about them being shot. Maybe if you took away the freedom of unsafe motorists to drive cars (by making the test as difficult as it is in other countries), there'd be fewer deaths on the roads? Unlimited freedom = anarchy.

    • Crime is down 39% from 1993 in the US, so stats from 2008 are WAY outdated. The murder rate in the US is 3.6, when you remove Chicago, New York City, Washington DC, Detroit and New Orleans from the equation, that rate drops to right around that of Europe.

      Also in the UK while you might have a better chance of surviving an attack by a criminal, you have a much higher chance of being attacked in the first place than the US.

  • Come to canada. We take in a lot of American refugees

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    • Your healthcare system has sent quite a few people south, too. :p

    • LOL yea people who don't want to do their part to fight for freedom. and people who like to snowboard and gamble, but not people who believe in freedom. Those people stay in the USA.

    • hopefully the Americans who don't get overly serious over a joke come here too, just saying..

  • Leave the country to feel safer?

    What kind of neighborhood do you live in?

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  • Well, depends really on what country you want to go to. I mean western countries are all pretty safe, U.S included, though there are those that are safer than others. But other than that, not many countries are as safe, so I guess your only viable options of moving are in Europe, Canada, Australia and the likes. At least here in Finland, I'd say things are quite safe, though we had a 2 similar incidents a while back. There really is not much crime around here at all, even less crimes that end up in deaths, at least in my opinion. Though you should keep in mind though that moving abroad is a lot harder than one might think.

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  • That's just how we roll..

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  • I'm sorry, but this post is absolutely ridiculous. And so are the comments.

    First off, you only include two options in the poll--both of which say the US is worse than other countries. Right off the bat you're showing some over dramatic sense of fear. There are year gaps between school related gun deaths such as the one at Newtown. They are terrible, yes, but there are so many other things that contribute to significantly more deaths than a specific number every few years or so.

    You say someone brought a gun to your old school. Well, at this moment there are probably 50,000+ people driving drunk. How many of them will get in accidents? How many will kill people in an accident? Gun violence in schools is bad, but the reaction to that is such over hyped in comparison to daily threats to our lives. Drunk driving is just one of the many. Texting, fast food, gangs, drugs, allergies, smoking, etc... all of these contribute to more deaths than the occasional gun violence in schools.

    You have a better chance dying in a car than going to school. So maybe we shouldn't drive? Let's ride a bike instead. Wait, now we can still get hit by other idiots or fall. More likely to die like that than going to school. So no bike, got it. Lets walk where we need to go. Oh but now we run the risk of getting hit by a car or mugged, and we will not be able to function with our daily schedules. Point is, so many things have a chance at danger--but changing one aspect of it really won't make us safer. Will removing all guns make it so that there will be no more violence? Will super strict gun laws really keep the guns out of the psychos hands that are doing these mass murders? Or will it just take the guns out of the hands of regular civilians who want it the guns for their own protection from the psychos who will still have the guns no matter what? But let's say we get rid of ALL guns. Will that stop someone from finding another way to kill people at a school? Hell, I could go onto YouTube right now and learn how to make a bomb and kill a hundred people. You can move wherever in the world you want to go, but the isolated psychos do not disappear. Remove all guns and GUN violence goes down. But it will correlate to increases in other violence. If someone is going to kill someone else, they aren't gonna say "oh shucks, guns are illegal. Looks like I won't kill them now..."

    You live in a paranoid sense of delusion if you think moving out of the US will make you safe. But hey, go ahead and overreact. Have kids and make them home schooled. Mess up their childhoods because you're afraid. Or better yet move out of the country and when World War 3 comes along, you can come running back to the US for protection. I'll be serving and protecting your ass as you wait to diss on the US again for being unsafe.

    Our freedoms bring the guns. Any free nation will bring the guns. And any gun control will not take the guns out of the hands of people who will really do harm with them.

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    • Do you think the US news stations would report on a gun related death in the Neatherlands? Danger is everywhere. The 200,000 soccer fans made you feel safe? Read this: link

      The US 24 hour news stations didn't report on it as much as Newtown, so you don't have some irrational fear of soccer fans. You live your life based on propaganda and biased agendas from news stations. That's BS

    • Haha four dislikes really shows how uninformed people are. Glad to know that the people give g advice on this site have no clue how the world works.

  • Lmao. What's sad is, I bet you and your friends would be against having armed guards in schools, saying that somehow it would be more effective to try to control the 300 million firearms in the United States.

    The fact is, that aside from random mass shootings (more people die by car wrecks every day) that are caused by psychotropic drugs, the USA crime rate is largely a race problem. According to the Bureau of Justice, blacks in the USA commit murder at a rate 7 times higher than whites.

    But even without removing the crime waves caused by blacks, the United States has lower violent crime rates than Great Britain, which is supposed to be so safe and merry. link

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  • A lot of other countries are much, much worse. But, some countries are much better. Either way, statistically the mass shootings here (USA) has really not increased any, the mass media is just reporting them much more right now.

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  • Its just the price of freedom unfortunately.

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  • Probably shouldn't post things about gun control

    Too many conservatives on here

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    • Funny thing is they'll say there are too many liberals here (and most of them have no idea what a liberal is, or how much they have to thank for liberals in history).

    • It's a trollable topic, not worth debating

  • There are better countries when it comes to low crime, low gun crime, high education standards and a strong supportive welfare state for families.

    But you pay for those in higher taxes. There may be languge difficulties. (Scandanavia has some of the highest literacy rates in the world, but do you speak Swedish, Norwegian or Finnish?) And culture shocks of other sorts.

    The United Kingdom has low gun crime, but high knife crime. Do you want to have to buy stab-vests for your children? (Check out amazon.co.uk for childrens stab vests)

    Ultimately, it is about you choosing which is more important for you.

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What Girls Said 9

  • Honestly, the media is just blowing this up. Don't get me wrong, what happened in Newtown, Virginia Tech, and every other place was an absolute tragedy but tragedies happen, it's a sad fact of life.

    Comparing US and UK stats, yes there are less gun-related deaths but...think about the size of the UK in comparison to the US.

    Humans are humans, no matter where you go. Your time in the Netherlands was safe, but think about what could/would happen if you spent your life there. You can't compare a year or two abroad to a lifetime in the US. It's just not statistically sound.

    Also, if most cops don't carry guns, then what happens when a shooter shows up? Please do research, because from one Google search I found this RECENT article link

    When people set their minds to things, there's very little - including strict gun control laws - that will stop them. The Netherlands, UK, just Europe in general has more than its fair share of gun-related deaths.

    I reiterate the fact that human natural, at its base, remains the same. Conflict, violence, humans have been using it to solve problems for centuries. That won't change with a change of scenery.

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  • Although it is scary that some kid brought a gun to your old high school, I think you're being paranoid and unrealistic. This is the world we live in. There are bad people and people with problems everywhere, in every country. It's a reality that you can't hide from, in any country.

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  • After hearing about the school shooting at Columbian in 1999 I think, I was always telling myself, if I ever have kids, I'm homeschooling them.

    I pet sit for a family that home schools their 6 kids. The mother stays home with the kids while the dad goes to work. I think the grandmother helps out too.

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  • I tend to agree with you. Our facination with violence is paying off. I also feel the political corruption

    and our corporatist economic model is making it difficult for the middle class to live and retire with security.

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  • I live in Canada, and it's pretty peaceful in here. Downtown though isn't probably as safe though. I live in mississauga and that's like the safest place for me.

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  • thr newtown gun tragedy was a fake and there is proof of it. It was one of Obamas "drills" to try to pass the gun control law

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    • I agree that Obama has capitalized on the deaths of the victims, but in no way was it fake. Please don't worsen the tragedy by saying this.

    • There are videos that prove it is!

  • I agree,

    In some ways it seems like the price for "freedom" in America is freedom.

    like they are free to buy guns in yard sales but they don't have the freedom of living somewhere really safe where they can let the kids out without worrying.

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  • uhh saying that one needs to move out of the US to feel safe is pretty overdramatic lol. I don't know any statistics and not gonna look any up right now but even if we do have a lot of psychopaths who shoot up schools, other countries just have different types of psychopaths. school shootings and other types of violence happen all over the world, not just here. unfortunately if you are a human being anywhere you go you have the chance of being killed by some other deranged human being. I live in a really nice town, I feel completely safe walking by myself in booty shorts at midnight. just because there's a town 30 minutes away with the highest carjacking rate in the country doesn't mean I need to leave the US, it just means I have to make sure not to go to that town and do the best I can to be safe where I am. I know that even though I feel secure where I live, the possibility of something dangerous happening is always lurking. to think that it's not is just deluded. just do your best to stay positive and practice being safe.

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  • The proportion of people killed by guns who aren't criminals is still pretty low. Chicago, for instance, with it's high homicide rate, has a huge gang problem. Also, there are stories all over about people on crack and meth killing their companions with anything available. Shovels, knives, crow bars, etc. I've probably read a dozen of these stories just from my smaller city in the past year. If you can afford to live in a nicer neighborhood, don't buy or use hard drugs ... the odds of being killed by gun violence are still pretty low.

    Quality of life in America is still fairly high...though we're struggling (along with much of Europe). Most of the western world is fairly safe if you make wise decisions -- but life is a dice roll and anything can happen. If you've had the chance to study abroad, I'm guessing you're upper middle class or lower upper class, so the stats are even a little more in your favor.

    I agree with yadayada ... driving is the most dangerous thing we do and more and more people take it very lightly. People are texting, eating ... I even saw someone reading the newspaper. I think part of the problem is that we commute so far to work, recreation, etc ... that people find it difficult to focus.

    That being said, if you really loved the Netherlands and seriously want to consider living there ... why not? Look into it. Can you find sustainable employment? Can you learn the language well enough to not feel alienated? Do their common values mirror yours about marriage and child rearing? How do you feel raising your children away from your own family? Etc.

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