IF the $15/hr min wage happens, do you expect more job cuts or more work hours?

[Anonymous]

There is another thing to consider when you're considering a minimum wage increase that I haven't seen anyone else mention (though it may have been). What's the value of the minimum wage? Everyone just said $15! But that's not what I meant. It's the value of what you can buy with that $15. You'll hear people talking about how in their day you could go to the movies for $3 and get a large popcorn and drink included. That increase in price for the same product is inflation and happens over time. Though it is a reason why the minimum wage may need to be increased because the value of the money don't buy the same amount it did X years ago. But there is another thing that has to be considered here. It's not just the value of the product but the value of the product in the location it's being sold in. A good example of this concept is looking at the cost of a 20oz bottle of Coke. Go to a sporting event and you may pay $6 a 20oz bottle of Coke. Then go to the gas station conveyance store and the same 20oz bottle of Coke may cost $4. Finally go to the grocery store and suddenly the 20oz bottle of Coke costs $2. (All prices used are examples to demonstrate the idea and are not reflective of actual prices.) This price difference drastically impacts the value of your money. This same change in price is also visible if you go between different states. It's part of what's known as the cost of living per State. In California things are more expensive then they are in Oklahoma. A 2 bedroom 2 bathroom apartment in California could cost $3200/month and the same sized apartment in Oklahoma may cost $800/month. So in this example California is 4 times more expensive than Oklahoma. So if you apply this idea of a fix federal minimum wage of $15 and use this sole example $15 in Oklahoma is the same as $3.75 in California or you could say $15 in California is $60 in Oklahoma. California is 4 times Oklahoma or Oklahoma is 1/4th California in terms of buying power. So for every $1 you spend in Oklahoma you'd have to spend $4 in California. Now again, this isn't exactly equal as it's not true for every single thing, but I simplified it to explain this point. A $15 minimum wage may make sense in California where things are more expensive, but it doesn't necessarily make sense in Oklahoma where things aren't as expensive.

Here's a link to show the value of $100 in each state.
https://taxfoundation.org/real-value-100-state-2019/

Notice that in California $100 buys you $87.11 worth of stuff while in Oklahoma it buys you $112.36 worth.

Thus a federal minimum wage doesn't really apply the way people think it does.

So the impact this has is hurting places where the paying where $15 is worth more and it may only bring other places up to what is a bare minimum of what should be paid. And you are going to say, "Oh but the person in Oklahoma can buy even more with that $15 than the person in California!" Yes, but it also means that money is more valuable to the company because the company has to sell more to get that much.

The second thing that goes along with this whole thing about differences in states is that this is the Federal minimum wage which is set to force a minimum value to wage in all the states but that does NOT mean that the state has to use this OR that even if the state is using it that it's what's being paid. Someone already mentioned that their state already had a $15 minimum wage. This is due to the fact that state has a higher cost of living. Now go look at a state that is shown to still be using the $7.25 federal minimal wage. Done freaking out at how insanely low that is? Okay good. What that doesn't tell you is where it's being used or if it's actually being used at all. It simply means that that state hasn't enforced a higher minimum in the state. That is all. How do I know this? The state that I am in will be one of the ones shown using $7.25, but places are just paying everyone that much. Why? Because all the fast food places here are paying $11 or more per hour for a new hire.

So this brings up the supply and demand question. I start a business and am going to pay you $7.25 to mop my floor. My neighbor starts a business and pays $10 to mop a floor. Where do you go work? Thus to get someone to mop my floor I have to also pay $10 or wait till all the $10 floor mopping jobs are filled and hire whoever is left. If I am not bringing in enough money to afford to pay $10 to mop my floor than being forced to do so is going to put me out of business or it means I cut costs which means sacrificing quality in someways. Jobs are filled by supply and demand where the cost is the cost to the employer. If the employer can't fill the position at the price it's being offered at then that employer will have to do something to adjust or go out of business. The same thing happens if the company tries to sell the product for more than anyone is willing to buy it just in reverse. In the case of not being able to fill the position at the low wage the wage will have to be increased. If the product is being sold for too much than the price will have to be increased. If the company can't afford to sell the product for less or to pay more for the employee the company goes out of business. Forcing a minimum wage increase is forcing the place to find a means cover the increase in cost which will have the impact on some places of causing them to close because they can't get the work done at that cost.

So this will have the impact on all the big places that can possibly afford to pay more being fine and those who can't going under. Thus Mom and Pop places will go under and big corporate places will continue. The Mom and Pop place tries to raise prices but the prices become to high compared to the price at the big corporate business meaning they M&P isn't competing and goes out of business. OR the price of things will go up everywhere to cover the increase which then negates the increase in wage which becomes inflation which I mentioned earlier. Oh look, I just made my whole thing circular - you may have been wondering why I brought up inflation in the beginning.

For those who this is TLDR:
It's not as simple as everyone is making it out to be, and it will have an impact on small businesses.

[Kurαȷ]

I'd expect that neither is going to happen, because employers do not have the luxury to do either.
They need their employees to perform a certain amount of labor that's necessary for their businesses to operate, and you can't realistically expect to achieve that by firing people or cutting their work hours.

They can fire people, but then their bottom line is also going to suffer because their work force performs less labor overall.
But since revenue is typically exponential, you generally do not want to fire anyone, you are much better off having more employees generating surplus value at progressively exponential rates.

The only real victims of minimum wage increases are very small businesses that simply don't have profit margins high enough to support the wage increase.
Especially if they operate in a country that does not experience periodic wage increases, where it may not have been a consideration in their long term viability.

For everyone bigger than that, all it does is cut a bit into their profits, but they can't do shit about it, because simply conceding to pay more is almost always the more economic option for the company.

[PinkMichae]

It's hard because in some ways it would be good because of how much the cost of living has gone up. But it will likely cost people jobs and some buisness's to even close.

I really think it should stay at the state level because some states have a lower cost of living than others. Plus we have lost a lot of job already do to the pandemic shutting down buisness's. It doesn't help for Biden to shut down the keystone pipeline causing 11,000 good paying jobs for Americans. And because of it gas prices are gonna soar.

I can only pray the decisions the president is making doesn't hurt us to bad. For the sack of our country I really pray the president succeeds. Because his failure is our failure.

[1truekhaleesi]

News flash, the cost of living has been going up anyways without raising the minimum wage. Jeff Bezos makes 2,000 a minute and yet everyone loses their minds when someone wants to make $15 an hour. Scientists have done studies saying that raising the minimum wage won't raise the cost of living or cause people to lose jobs. The person fighting for $15 an hour isn't your enemy just because they want to make a similar wage to you. That should remind you to work for a company that pays you what you're worth.

The rich are lying to you so that you stay silent and compliant, and they continue to steal

[humanearth]

I was visiting friends right before Christmas. They live in Milwaukee Wisconsin. There is a new tend going on there.

Companies are starting to only hire part time. Its worse then what your describing.

Basically, my friends have to put in a bid for a job per day on such and such job. What ever that job is, keep in mind. Though some app thingyabob.

There is a list of companies. They also list jobs they have, They have a description of the job and how long it will take.

People bid on said job. Say you bid the job for stocking sleeves for example. And you want that job. You bid 100 bucks and then some else bids. The person with the lowest bid get the job.

There used to be a show on TV called Shipping Wars. This new job is based on that idea of the show. Its nothing more than a reversed auction.

My friends tell me a lot of companies are doing this. No regular employees, no health care, and you don't know when the next time your working and who you would be working for.

They showed my this thing on there phone. Walmart, Roundy's, trucking companies, warehouses companies, grocery stores. I even saw a foundry on there.

If this is the new thing takes over. Are future of our country is doom. Because no would working enough to make it to survive.

If you get hurt or sick, no health care. You are totally fucked. All because companies can't afford the higher wages. So they came up with this. Just to keep their doors open.

Yeah, this is going to be a nasty future

[RingOfFire]

One of the major concepts that rank and file people on the left don't seem to grasp is that money doesn't grow on trees.

If you force employers to pay more to their employees they won't have any choice but to raise the price of their products. That means consumers (which is YOU) will be paying more for EVERYTHING you buy because the employers have to get that extra money from somewhere.

At some point you as the consumer aren't going to be willing to pay $25 for Big Mac and one of two things will happen. Either McDonalds will figure out how to sell Big Macs with less employees or, if it can't it will close its doors and lay everyone off.

That's how business works. There is no way around it. The money has to come from somewhere or the will be no employers. The place it will come from IS YOU. And a lot of people will lose their jobs in the process. Ask them which is better, $10 an hour or $0 an hour?

Maybe if you feel like you aren't paying enough for everything you buy from your groceries to your rent you should be in favor of raising the minimum wage to $15. Otherwise don't say you weren't warned.

[Craftsman]

Every time the minimum wage has been raised in my lifetime the net employment went down. The last time we had a major move like that, McDonald's, as well as other 'entry level employers' brought in the 'order here' kiosks. White Castle burgers has a robot that cooks burgers. There are other such examples, google "burger cooking robot" for a list.
Every time we raise the minimum wage, technology gets a boost, a robot is made, and people lose whole classes of jobs. And it stands to reason. Robots can work 24 hours per day, do not get sick, do not need breaks (except for occasional routine maintenance) and don't take vacations. They don't complain to management, do not form unions, and do not go on strike. One good technician can maintain many robots that have replaced many entry level workers. It's one way of keeping the prices and costs down.
The problem is, it displaces people. It's all fine and good to create an inexpensive product or service. It is necessary for people to have money to buy those products and services. If industry doesn't hire the people, the people won't have the money. No matter how good the robot machinery, the quality of the product, and the low cost of the product, if no one has money to buy it, the entire system collapses like a house of cards.
The argument is made that other options develop, and that is true as well. Only time will tell whether it's a boon or a doomsday for the individuals and society as a whole.

[nightdrot]

This can be answered relatively quickly. According to a study by the Congressional Budget Office, the minimum wage increase just implemented - over three years - by the Biden administration, will result in a minimum loss of 1.3 million jobs. That is either in layoffs or - if you include jobs not created, 3.2 million jobs.

Of course, the CBO projections are based on projected economic conditions. In 2020, the economy shrank by 3.5% - the largest one year decline since World War II. Throw in the transition of the economy that began in roughly the 1980s from a manufacturing/extractions base to a service/high tech base, and the time it is taking for the education system and labor force demographics to catch up to that transition, and it is not surprising that job cuts AND lost hours will result.

Just to add then that, as a general rule, where the minimum wage is increased in a weak economic environment where wage growth is slow, unemployment will rise and working hours will be lost. Where it is increased in a strong economy with low unemployment and high wage growth are the norms, it is apt not to matter very much.

Thus the paradox. When it is needed most, as a social matter, it is apt to be counterproductive. When it is not needed, it will over time, be largely beneficial at the margins and mostly inconsequential.

[WindAtMyBack]

All of the above. I think the biggest negative is that a lot of small businesses will go under. That's after large numbers that permanently went under because of covid shutdowns. This is an absolutely horrible time to be seriously discussing doubling the minimum wage. How much can these companies take? The government should be doing everything possible to help these businesses, not kill them.

There are thousands and thousands of small businesses that barely get by. They cut their costs as much as possible, and can't increase prices. So they just go out of business.

[DrunkAss]

I think some small group will benefit at the cost of the larger group like most government policies, and the small group probably won't be people who need the wage hikes the most. The real minimum wage is zero (unemployment). And the maximum wage is infinity.

Few employers are charitable. A larger price floor will probably translate most to "undesirable" employees being displaced out of the job market, like teens, minorities, and immigrants. It's like forcing generic Cola to cost as much as Coca Cola. That probably means more people will favor Coca Cola.

The idea that minimum wage stimulates economies and especially in the cases of monopsonies is questionable to me. What isn't questionable to me is that the worst-off people who are struggling to find a job are only going to have a much harder time finding one if the law forces them to charge more than people are willing to spend.

[lightbulb27]

I was talking with a restaurant owner who was struggling through covid-19. First off, whose to say he can stay in business (make enough $ to make it worth his while). So there is job loss possibly. Beyond that, he said they'd do away with tips and just do salary. I don't see how that works because tips were never on his radar, it's not on his books... what's on his books are $15 min wage for the hours worked. So his cost just went up. I think costs of service have to go up.

Reality is... that's what they want... inflation. But to the workers, I suspect you lose hours as businesses focus on the hours when most people are there. I'd just close down like they do in Europe, so people have to come to work, leave, come back, etc.. and pay them for the hours they work.

there is no free lunch.

[jgokgotit]

A general rule of thumb is a workplace will do everything within their power to fuck over workers, save their precious bottom dollar and make the current employees work harder. This translates to a workplace cutting workers to compensate for increased wages and justifying increased workload by arguing that the increased wages means the employees should be forced to work harder. As an employer, it is their ideal situation to hire as few people as possible, get the maximum work out of those few people and pay them as little as possible so the company can earn a bigger profit.

[Floppy2112]

It's going to drive up inflation and $15 won't be enough so then it will have to be $20, then $30, etc. It's a panacea for those who don't know how money actually works. It's all based on faith. If everybody simultaneously last interest in the U. S. dollar it wouldn't be worth dogshit.
When I worked in Italy, the lira was 1\2000 of a dollar. And they did even have coins, sub amounts of a single lira. It was 4000 lira for a Coke at a restaurant. It didn't used to be that way, but they got loose and fast with the money and it's value plummeted. There were tons of millionaires in Italy, they just weren't very wealthy.
If you think it's bad now, wait until the government starts printing $1000 dollar bills.

[Walt832]

I run a company landscaping and lawn care.

The question is by raising the minimum wage, will customers willing to accept our prices increments? To cover their labor.

That how it works the more you all ask any business will increase. I mean even Happy Meal increased now is like $4 compare back in my days was $1.50.

How about tell your governor to decrease the living expenses. Specially water with all those fees. I mean isn't enough we pay state taxes and toll ways?

Simple you all asking to be laid off or reduced hours.

[Phoenix98]

Well for one the only people getting pay raises will be minimum wage workers if you already make above minimum wage you won't be seeing anything. As it only affects entry level jobs.

Secondly jobs will not only cut workers but also cut the remaining employee's hours and jobs that can will seek to go towards automation and automate jobs to reduce costs. Also some business will close because they won't be able to afford to pay the new wage increases.

Along with all that you will see an increase in the cost of living, bills, gas, food the price of everything will increase. Since Biden took office I've seen a gas increase of almost a dollar and that's just in the first week and that because he shut down Trumps pipeline which not only supplied people with over 10,000 jobs but was lowering the price of gas and would have brought in a lot of money.

In short it's not only stupid but a huge mistake

[BoobMan]

Expect a lot less hiring and fewer hours for those working. Also expect currently employed marginal workers to be fired. Expect more effort and energy going into low-skilled labor saving technology and business processes. Lastly, expect youth unemployment to spike, since now jobs that unskilled kids would have previously held (at wages commensurate with their complete lack of experience) need to be priced such that someone can maintain a family on them. Seems odd for a paper route, but whatchagonnado?

[Yaaten]

Neither. In Australia the minimum wage is about $18, because in this country we believe that people deserve to earn at least enough to survive on, without having to work themselves to death or rely upon "tips" ("tipping" is something we do not do, because we don't need to).
What is the minimum hourly rate in the U. S? Around $7.50? If so, then it's disgraceful.

[dragoblack]

I expect companies to try to find ways to cut corners and others pay to get an adjustment as well while executives and CEO try to give themselves raises instead of managing their companies financials properly.
Companies can easily afford the adjustments, the problem is the CEOs and higher-ups not realising they can't just keep laying people off enable to give themselves raises and scapegoating the reason to something else. Small buisness might have to raise prices a little until the economic flow equalizes, but there's plenty of evidence showing the adjustment is good for the economy.
People have more money, the more it will be spent. If people can't afford to spend, small buisness hurt

[matchrestore]

For the company I work at, we don't have anyone making less than $15/hr, and its been that way for a few years now. The closest would be a a few high school students we had working for us one summer, but we'd still employ them at or above $15 in the future.

[DeeDeeDeVour]

Large corporations with "deep pockets" and government establishments with large spending appropriations might be able to afford that. Medium-sized businesses might struggle then cut down on the number of hours employees work and/or lay off employees. Small businesses will do the same or just might close down.

[oddwaffle]

If you have been paying $1000 a day then now you have to pay $1500 a day, you will find a way to cut that down to $1000. It comes with keeping the trained workers while firing anyone else who aren't good enough.

You raise the standards so you can get away with less employees for the same amount of products.

[Not_Average]

Of course. Most corporations cannot afford this, so they’ll likely have to fire people or cut their benefits. They’ll do funky things just to counter balance this new regulation. I think raising minimum wage right now was a terrible decisions. Not worth the trade off.

[Jjpayne]

I think it's stupid, the cost of living is simply going to go up to meet the rising cost. If gas is 3.00 a gallon, it will simply go up to 5.00 and if cereal is 2 dollars a box it will go up to 4. It's kinda dumb... It's basically a wash and just acts to artificially make our costs for living go up

[tartaarsaus]

The evidence that unemployment rises when minimum wage rises is actually not clear at all. In the past, economists were pretty certain it’d increases unemployment. Nowadays, there is lots of evidence where it had no significant impact on unemployment.

[loveslongnails]

It will affect different businesses in different ways. A business that may have had longer hours but did less business early or late, may decide to shorten their hours. Other businesses may find the owners working more during slow times and only hiring for peak hours. I think it will be different for everybody.

[worldscolide]

It will cause lay offs, and basically over burden those that are working because they will be expected to pick up the slack. It will also cause companies to drastically raise their prices.. People say it won't happen, but look at places that already have such a law in place..

[Anonymous]

The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. My state's minimum wage is $13.50. Getting to $13.50 was a three year phased in plan. Everyone said that the world would end when the minimum wage went from $9.50 to $13.50. Well, nothing has changed. No one lost any jobs, and no one's hours were cut.

[lucas262]

I expect people to get fucked over. Remember these are the same people promising shit. Wjo robbed us all of 2000$ checks. 15$, an hr won't do jack if the cost of living skyrockets people lose their jobs and get so few hrs they notice no difference in their monthly income.

[Twalli]

Studies show that an increase in the minimum wage saw virtally no layoffs in relation to it. Those laid off were not only the ones at the bottom rung. The only reason a company would do that is poor money management. It also wasn't in relation to wages as the layoffs were across the board, even of those who were already making more than minimum wage already

[nate_lake]

I do not understand why minimum wage is such a big deal to the left it will bankrupt our country! There are so many high paying jobs out there that you don't need a degree in. I didn't know how to sand and buff metal but I shaved got a nice hair cut put nice clothes on and went and applied for the job I was hired immediately for a position that required experience. $20 an hour. It's not that hard people go apply yourself

[wankiam]

it happened here in the uk several years ago and some thought it would be the end for many small businesses but infact it had no impact whatso ever except to give the low paid more spending power which ofcourse filtered back through to those very businesses that were worried

[JDavid25]

They would definitely laid a lot of low skilled people off.. The minimum wage was made to price low skilled workers out of the job market in the first place.. It should be abolished period, and let company price people based on their human capital.. But yeah they'll lay people off and mesh responsibilities with their current workers..

[kimbim]

In Denmark we have approximately 25 dollars an hour as minimum since forever

We have 6 weeks paid vacation

Free healthcare

Every December we get a bonus

We get paid when we are sick

Almost nobody is unemployed and businesses are thriving

I'm sure the United states can do just fine with a tiny raise in hourly wages...

Peace

[beefy40]

inflation a year or two down the road. The issue isn't always the wage, it's can be an issue of a lack of supply in housing, food, and etc. If you don't build new housing, to meet demand, and you raise wages, hand lords will just increase rent, thus making the wage increase moot. You have to do one before the other.

[FakeName123]

Minimum wage is the worst thing that could be done for low-paid workers. Many jobs will simply be eradicated and automated (see what happened in california Mcdonalds), small businesses will be unable to pay it and thus go bankrupt and prices grow higher.

If anything, this is destroying small businesses and increase unemployment. If politicians wanted to actually help low-paid workers, they would decrease overall taxes as much as possible.

[Anonymous]

Trumpies are so fucking weird


They will still need the same amount of employees for the same hrs
Most likely companies will increase their prices to pay their employees


So to the dumb ass who said it’s to buy votes you sound dumb af the election is over
Wtf would he have to buy vote rn goofy

[gotc147]

Whenever somebody says we need a $15/hour minimum wage I ask them why not a $50/hour minimum wage?

Any argument against a $50/hour minimum wage can also be used against a $15/hour minimum wage.

[andreasderjuengere]

I could not say what exactly will be the response to this.
I expect that as usual greed will prevail, and that large corporations and banks will again laugh at those who try to make an honourable and honest living.

[Asianguy123]

I thought that it's a good idea getting $15 hr but then food price went up 30% here in Canada since they raised the minimum wage. I realized that people can work hard if they want to get more than minimum wage by going to school or something. raising minimum wage is a bad idea. everything will be more expensive eventually.

[hellacray]

People may lose their jobs. You need to pay your employees more so a way to counter that would be to eliminate some positions. Who knows some companies might not be able to compensate that min wage increase.

[TallAnon]

Option A would cost the company more money, so no. Option B would cause less productivity, so no.

Option C is more likely, they will just force people to do unpaid overtime and fire those that don't agree "does not fit the team" and get someone that does agree.

[OlderAndWiser]

I would expect some businesses to close, some to cut employee's hours, and larger business like Wendy's, Burger King, etc. to develop more automation to replace some entry level employees. Increasing minimum wage that drastically is a huge mistake.

[Citizenkirk]

At 15 dollars an hour, there better not be anymore cold burgers, stale 🍟, or attitudes from McDonald's employees.

[Anonymous]

people will get less hours to work, and more people will be hired.
they are already doing this because if you work 40+ hours than you get health benefits and a lot of companies do not want to pay health benefits.

[Smoke-n-Growls]

Work continues as normal.

$15/hr means people get a livable wage, and CEOs get a few thousand dollars less a day.

[MadBoy]

They would definitely cut hours for a bunch of people, and even fire them entirely for people that are seen as unnecessary. He'll they might even fire people that are needed and make the others work harder.

[Anonymous]

Not to sound naive Or rough like I usually do But since saying Want more production are you going to make you work longer hours that should make you a full-time employee so you could get benefits Wouldn't that be nice For a change To get benefits and not have to qualify for Medicaid and food stamps?

[Trooper205]

I'd expect job cuts... Because, Hey... it's not like 15 people can work like that at one job... only like 3 or 4 people can do that and still have a sturdy Workplace. A job can't work like that!

And of course, with less workers, that means more hours to cover those who were laid off.

[disgustingweebtrash]

Job cuts and probably more (stressful hours)

Why would McDonalds pay two burger flippers double when they can get rid of one and shove all the work from the laid off worker on the now one burger flipper?

[normalice]

I doubt there will be any change if it's a national minimum.

[Marshymallow]

No big deal. Nothings gonna change that much, don't get why y'all make it sound like a big deal.

[David_Kek]

It's an economic fact; increasing the minimum wage increases unemployment and raises prices.
The Truth about the Minimum Wage - YouTube

[Sarahr123]

If they increase hours they’ll have to pay them
more by the extra hours so they’ll likely cut hours.

[Agape93]

Honestly not much will happen. Maybe some smaller businesses will drop people, but that’s about it.

[douride2]

They raised the minimum wage here a few years back. All that did was have less people working. Some ended up laid off.

[timeforsomegag]

its chris aka justcurious2019 how are you doing

places will cut hours the only place i ever worked that give full time was walmart but that placed sucked

[Wytdrgn]

Less hours and more layoffs. At least that's what I think

[Anonymous]

It is crazy that Americans have been convinced that a living wage will mean the end of the world despite what happens in other countries.

[Maraneva]

Damn... And here the government is trying to push mandatory 12 hour shifts after stopping all pay hikes across the country for the last and this year. Guess we're already too far gone

[Anonymous]

Bad Idea. Possible layoffs and who the hell wants to pay 15 dollars for a meal deal that is not worth it? Lose business for sure.

[Anpu23]

There's so much work in our area right now I don't see much difference.

[Wiredone]

I think places of employment will cut hours to make up for the difference. It already started happening at my son's job and it didn't even go through yet.

It won't affect me since I own my business and I pay more than minimum wage anyway.

[mimi051998]

More Employees would get laid off so that companies dont have to pay as many people.

[Yellovv]

This time is very difficult for everyone because of pandemic, a lot of people lost their job and too many people doesn't have money to pay their bills and kitchen stuff, if you have job, you should be happy...