Don’t really understand the problem?

Question

- Way before lockdown, I joined a women’s socialising group.

- I wanted to make some new friends, as I didn’t have any until I joined the group (ltr).

- I joined a women’s group - and the organiser hosted bi-weekly events at no cost to us, with free entry free drinks and free food at VIP places in London.

- She is black. I am white (and most of the girls attending are white).

- Recently, one of the girls attending randomly made the comment that she was “very white and very conservative”, to the black girl (at a party in the black girl’s home).

- At times, she appeared to treat the organiser in an entitled way, and also looked at her disgusted at times. I think she was drunk to be honest lol.

- Anyway the organiser removed her from the group, on suspicion of “racism”.

- The white girl says that she is NOT racist, as she has lived in Spain for a few weeks - and feels that she should be re-admitted to the socialising group.

- I agree with her, as she did not say anything explicitly racist. She is super nice to me also, and all the other white girls.

- So I took her to the organiser’s events - that the organiser hosts.

- These events were in PUBLIC places, they are not PRIVATE events - so I don’t understand what the problem is. Anyone can attend?

- I’ve told the black organiser, and the white girl that was removed from the group that I agree with both their perspectives.

- And I’d like to maintain friendships are both of them and continue to attend the events, and to continue to attend the complimentary events.

-

Updates:

15 d

3 other white women in the group strongly agree with me (that the white girl has been treated badly - with the ‘race card’ in play ) and as such they have stopped talking to the organiser, kind of stand her up at events, or turn up a few hours late - but they’re still attending the events (since the events were in public places, and as they blk girl introduced us).

- The organiser removed me from the group, after the last event !.
- I honesty I don’t understand why. I’m not racist myself, a

15 d

as I'm not racist myself, as for example I’m dating a black guy that’s her friend. Can’t we just respectfully agree to disagree and continue on as we were previously, since is it a friendship group ? I wanna hear have any suggestions for how I can better explain this to her.- I’ve explained it to another girl in the group that is black. And she completely agrees that the white girl SHOULD be allowed back to the complimentary events (... so she might take all the deleted members to t

Answer 1

Anonymous

So essentially, you’ve noticed racist behavior, but decided to sweep it to the side because (to you) her actions weren’t blatant, and she is your friend. No offense, but as a woman of color, someone doesn’t need to shout their racism from the rooftops to validate it for non people of color. We see it and understand it. “Treating the organizer in entitled ways” and giving her “disgusted looks”, but you chop it up to drunkness? Then the cherry on top is “I’m not racist I’ve lived in Spain”. Ha! That doesn’t make someone less racist, and is actually one of the most asinine cards to throw out there. Regardless, the organizer was entitled to what she did. It is her group and if she felt the peace being disrupted, she has the right to run it how she wants, and you should either respect that or find another alternative, like starting your own small group. Not slap her in the face by bringing the person who got kicked out to the events anyway. So what if they were public, it’s not like it’s some random thing you found online to do. These are your groups events. So I’m sorry, but fishing for justification won’t magically make your actions agreeable, especially as a white woman yourself, with no real understanding of this perspective.

Asker

15 d
The white Girl is super nice to everyone in the group, so I honestly don’t believe that she meant the comment in a way that was racist. She is really hurt by the accusation, and cried when she was removed from the group. She emailed the organiser confronting her, and CCed all of us in as she was so upset and shocked by what had happened. Also she told me that her ex (even though she said that she thought he was Italian at first) - turned out actually be Kurdish and Muslim. So how the hell can she be racist? This is what I mean, by I think it’s fair for us deleted members to attend one of the organiser’s complimentary events, to better explain this to her. I honestly think that it was a knee-jerk reaction on the organiser’s part, and she owes it to us to treat us all fairly. Running a social group means that you should be open to a range of different experiences and personalities. The organiser’s personal friends for example have continued to email a group chat, with the inference that the apparent white racist girl can still attend group events. So I think that speaks for itself in terms of being open-minded, and the black girl is just kind of overreacting, There is no reason why she shouldn’t facilitate for us to all get back together, and have a blast together and just drop all this pettiness.
Opinion Owner

15 d
“Niceness” doesn’t necessarily transfer to “not racist”. I feel the need to kindly reiterate that as a non-person of color, you aren’t able to fully grasp the organizers point of view and experience, so in turn, you are unable to truly relate. By you going forth and calling her verdict “petty” and so on, you are invalidating an experience that bothered her enough to remove your friend. Personally, I don’t feel like it’s necessary for you, as the middle man, to try and mend this bridge for the sake of good times and fun. Although you disagree, it just simply isn’t your place to try and continue on as you see fit. Rather than label the organizer as an over-reactor, why not consider the fact that what happened truly offended her, and respectfully partake in other, separate activities with this friend? I understand the somewhat “sanctity” of a group like this. I worked with all women for a few years and love the bond that can be formed. But you have to respect who formed that group, and there’s no other route but to create your own, if you cannot agree with the way things are run in her group..
Asker

15 d
... I also said that the other black girl in this situation agreed to take us deleted members to the organiser’s future events. Reason being the organiser was sending us repetitive, endless unsolicited messages about the “racism”. We think that the organiser has it in for the white girl in some way. She advertised complimentary events for a few drinks and free food, so she should deliver that to us as advertised, and not overthink things TBH. I’m just being direct
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Asker

15 d
I don’t have the time or bandwidth to create a group. The organiser advertised a ‘women’s socialising group’. She should be prepared to take all that comes with that, good and perceived bad. There is no other ways of making friends during lockdown now, so we are ALL relying on that group. So there is a duty for her to the community, and overcoming negativity. Also, there is another black girl in the group that agrees with this stance. The blackout hasn’t witnessed any of the comments were made to the other black girl, but after we’ve explained the above to her, she agrees with us and is taking us to the next event after lockdown. We can then explain it to the other black girl (organiser) for her to understand
Asker

15 d
Also, I DO understand about racism. As I said I’m dating a black guy, and I’m friends with both the black girls in the group, including (previously), the organiser. I think it says a lot that the other (2nd) black girl in the group, completely agrees with the white girls. The 2nd black girl did say that the white girl being accused of racism, blanked her in the early stages, and was obnoxious at times towards her - BUT became super nice after she was accused of racism, which completely absolves her, of the accusations of racism. She is just naive. As I said, giving everyone a fair chance to input is what would rectify the situation, for the accuser to be given a fair chance to input to the black organiser, post-deletion. White girl is super hurt, and deserves an opportunity to attend the events that are advertised as complimentary, sip comp drinks- and have a great time with us all.
Opinion Owner

15 d
Maybe you feel like you understand this viewpoint, but you simply can’t, because you just aren’t in that persons shoes. You may be sympathetic and knowledgeable of it, and you may hurt for your boyfriend and friends if you witness it, but it’s not YOU. Also, I love my friends who aren’t of color, for standing with me against injustice and having my back if something were to happen, but they understand that they just don’t get it, and I think you should too. All of these things you’re saying are just encased with the sense of entitlement, and what this organizer should or shouldn’t do. But the fact of the matter is that it’s no ones choice but hers. If your intention is to carry on with other group members trying to force your opinions upon her, then by all means. But it’s not for you, or anyone else to invalidate her experience simply because the accused is a nice person. Maybe the two of them will get to sit down 1 on 2 sometime and talk, but it sounds like you’ve already made a few friends in the group. I would just invite them out separately and have a zoom girls night or go to the bar or something. It’s a lot less drama and a lot more mindful.
Asker

15 d
No. We are going to be forward with attending the organiser’s events when we come out a lot down. She continues to advertise free drink events, with free food. Even though we’ve been removed from the group, we feel that she should fulfil her duty in delivering what was originally advertised. This is a petty misunderstanding. The white girl is not racist, since she explained herself to the 2nd black girl leg in the group who has accepted the apology for both all of the black girls Involved. Can’t really argue with that, and your guys are kind of doesn’t have a leg to stand on given the above
Asker

15 d
*Can’t really argue with that, and the organiser kind of doesn’t have a leg to stand on given the above
Opinion Owner

15 d
Well hey, it’s your choice. You said you don’t really understand the problem, and I’m giving you some outside perspective, as a person of color, who could understand where the organizer is coming from and how your friends actions rubbed her the wrong way. If you are convinced that you are right and have a band of allies, then why ask? Your mind is clearly made up, so it sounds like there’s nothing left to talk about. Good luck with your plan going forward.
Asker

15 d
All I ask is that you consider the fact that the second black girl in the group has excepted the white girl’s apology, on behalf of all of the black women. So doesn’t give you an indication that the organiser is overreacting in some way? I’m open to other perspectives, but I just feel that you haven’t really thoroughly looked at the points that I raised, objectively. If another woman of your race had the same perspective as me, wouldn’t you feel a bit silly for maintaining your stance that you feel discriminated against, when you weren’t even in receipt of explicitly racist comments?
Opinion Owner

15 d
definitely do consider the points that you’ve raised, and what I’m saying is not coming from a place of inconsideration. I just feel like in your efforts to keep the good times rolling, so to speak, you are diminishing and trying to downplay the organizers feelings, even if that isn’t your intention. Just because a woman shares a race with me, does not give her the right to speak or accept anything on my behalf. I mean that’s just silly to even think. I get that you want to move past the incident and become part of the group again, but if there’s that much drama, why even go back anyway? You’ve made some friends there, and as easily as the organizer finds events, you can find them too. I just feel like you’re acting so entitled to attending these events, but how is it not awkward for you to go? Especially with your friend in tow. Personally I feel like she may just be upset that she got caught. Of course idc her character, but I’ve seen the victim role played out so many times in several ways, I wouldn’t put it past anyone...
Asker

15 d
The Organiser kept sending us messages about the apparent racism, and we felt that defensiveness and repetition spoke volumes. There is no need to get so heavy, and she is the only one bringing drama to the situation. The white girl has been crying hard about this, and honestly - you can’t really prove racism from allegations of dirty looks and saying that she is ‘very white and very conservative’. Perhaps she’s just proud of her background, in the same way that black girls talk about black girl magic
Opinion Owner

15 d
It’s definitely a lot to be sending repeating messages about the incident. I also couldn’t prove that what your friend did is specifically racist, I’m just saying that I can understand how it could come across as such to the organizer, and even if to you it feels like she’s over reacting, the experience obviously did something to her and it’s not fair to invalidate her experience. All this to say, that group sounds like there’s a lot of drama anyway, and even if the organizer invited you all back formally, you could be subject to another issue. I’m not sure how things are in the UK, but on this side of the pond, there are a lot of groups to get involved in. I just feel like if you could find another group, you should at least try. Begin with a fresh start, new people, etc. it could be the best route all around.
Asker

15 d
So you acknowledge that her sending a total of 4 emails expressing upset about what she perceived to be “racism” is unreasonable pestering and overwhelming, right? She is the best organiser on the platform that we joined, and we get free drinks, entry and food, so that’s why we’re favouring the group. She’s offering it out gratis, so it’s no problem for us to expect to continue to receive this….
Opinion Owner

15 d
Yes, I believe several messages is excessive, however what I’m trying to relay to you isn’t pertaining to all of these messages, but the feelings of the sender. I think at the end of the day, this is one of those “choose your battles” sort of scenarios. I personally can’t think of any events that are worth a considerable amount of drama. I don't know if the situation needs a different approach or what, but the lengths you and your friends are going to to sweep the organizers feelings under the rug, just to continue having a good time just seems like a lot. Free food and drinks just aren’t worth it after so much exhaustion.

Answer 2

Asker

The white Girl is super nice to everyone in the group, so I honestly don’t believe that she meant the comment in a way that was racist. She is really hurt by the accusation, and cried when she was removed from the group. She emailed the organiser confronting her, and CCed all of us in as she was so upset and shocked by what had happened. Also she told me that her ex (even though she said that she thought he was Italian at first) - turned out actually be Kurdish and Muslim. So how the hell can she be racist? This is what I mean, by I think it’s fair for us deleted members to attend one of the organiser’s complimentary events, to better explain this to her. I honestly think that it was a knee-jerk reaction on the organiser’s part, and she owes it to us to treat us all fairly. Running a social group means that you should be open to a range of different experiences and personalities. The organiser’s personal friends for example have continued to email a group chat, with the inference that the apparent white racist girl can still attend group events. So I think that speaks for itself in terms of being open-minded, and the black girl is just kind of overreacting, There is no reason why she shouldn’t facilitate for us to all get back together, and have a blast together and just drop all this pettiness.

Answer 3

Opinion Owner

“Niceness” doesn’t necessarily transfer to “not racist”. I feel the need to kindly reiterate that as a non-person of color, you aren’t able to fully grasp the organizers point of view and experience, so in turn, you are unable to truly relate. By you going forth and calling her verdict “petty” and so on, you are invalidating an experience that bothered her enough to remove your friend. Personally, I don’t feel like it’s necessary for you, as the middle man, to try and mend this bridge for the sake of good times and fun. Although you disagree, it just simply isn’t your place to try and continue on as you see fit. Rather than label the organizer as an over-reactor, why not consider the fact that what happened truly offended her, and respectfully partake in other, separate activities with this friend? I understand the somewhat “sanctity” of a group like this. I worked with all women for a few years and love the bond that can be formed. But you have to respect who formed that group, and there’s no other route but to create your own, if you cannot agree with the way things are run in her group..

Answer 4

Asker

... I also said that the other black girl in this situation agreed to take us deleted members to the organiser’s future events. Reason being the organiser was sending us repetitive, endless unsolicited messages about the “racism”. We think that the organiser has it in for the white girl in some way. She advertised complimentary events for a few drinks and free food, so she should deliver that to us as advertised, and not overthink things TBH. I’m just being direct

Answer 5

Asker

I don’t have the time or bandwidth to create a group. The organiser advertised a ‘women’s socialising group’. She should be prepared to take all that comes with that, good and perceived bad. There is no other ways of making friends during lockdown now, so we are ALL relying on that group. So there is a duty for her to the community, and overcoming negativity. Also, there is another black girl in the group that agrees with this stance. The blackout hasn’t witnessed any of the comments were made to the other black girl, but after we’ve explained the above to her, she agrees with us and is taking us to the next event after lockdown. We can then explain it to the other black girl (organiser) for her to understand

Answer 6

Asker

Also, I DO understand about racism. As I said I’m dating a black guy, and I’m friends with both the black girls in the group, including (previously), the organiser. I think it says a lot that the other (2nd) black girl in the group, completely agrees with the white girls. The 2nd black girl did say that the white girl being accused of racism, blanked her in the early stages, and was obnoxious at times towards her - BUT became super nice after she was accused of racism, which completely absolves her, of the accusations of racism. She is just naive. As I said, giving everyone a fair chance to input is what would rectify the situation, for the accuser to be given a fair chance to input to the black organiser, post-deletion. White girl is super hurt, and deserves an opportunity to attend the events that are advertised as complimentary, sip comp drinks- and have a great time with us all.

Answer 7

Opinion Owner

Maybe you feel like you understand this viewpoint, but you simply can’t, because you just aren’t in that persons shoes. You may be sympathetic and knowledgeable of it, and you may hurt for your boyfriend and friends if you witness it, but it’s not YOU. Also, I love my friends who aren’t of color, for standing with me against injustice and having my back if something were to happen, but they understand that they just don’t get it, and I think you should too. All of these things you’re saying are just encased with the sense of entitlement, and what this organizer should or shouldn’t do. But the fact of the matter is that it’s no ones choice but hers. If your intention is to carry on with other group members trying to force your opinions upon her, then by all means. But it’s not for you, or anyone else to invalidate her experience simply because the accused is a nice person. Maybe the two of them will get to sit down 1 on 2 sometime and talk, but it sounds like you’ve already made a few friends in the group. I would just invite them out separately and have a zoom girls night or go to the bar or something. It’s a lot less drama and a lot more mindful.

Answer 8

Asker

No. We are going to be forward with attending the organiser’s events when we come out a lot down. She continues to advertise free drink events, with free food. Even though we’ve been removed from the group, we feel that she should fulfil her duty in delivering what was originally advertised. This is a petty misunderstanding. The white girl is not racist, since she explained herself to the 2nd black girl leg in the group who has accepted the apology for both all of the black girls Involved. Can’t really argue with that, and your guys are kind of doesn’t have a leg to stand on given the above

Answer 9

Asker

*Can’t really argue with that, and the organiser kind of doesn’t have a leg to stand on given the above

Answer 10

Opinion Owner

Well hey, it’s your choice. You said you don’t really understand the problem, and I’m giving you some outside perspective, as a person of color, who could understand where the organizer is coming from and how your friends actions rubbed her the wrong way. If you are convinced that you are right and have a band of allies, then why ask? Your mind is clearly made up, so it sounds like there’s nothing left to talk about. Good luck with your plan going forward.

Answer 11

Asker

All I ask is that you consider the fact that the second black girl in the group has excepted the white girl’s apology, on behalf of all of the black women. So doesn’t give you an indication that the organiser is overreacting in some way? I’m open to other perspectives, but I just feel that you haven’t really thoroughly looked at the points that I raised, objectively. If another woman of your race had the same perspective as me, wouldn’t you feel a bit silly for maintaining your stance that you feel discriminated against, when you weren’t even in receipt of explicitly racist comments?

Answer 12

Opinion Owner

definitely do consider the points that you’ve raised, and what I’m saying is not coming from a place of inconsideration. I just feel like in your efforts to keep the good times rolling, so to speak, you are diminishing and trying to downplay the organizers feelings, even if that isn’t your intention. Just because a woman shares a race with me, does not give her the right to speak or accept anything on my behalf. I mean that’s just silly to even think. I get that you want to move past the incident and become part of the group again, but if there’s that much drama, why even go back anyway? You’ve made some friends there, and as easily as the organizer finds events, you can find them too. I just feel like you’re acting so entitled to attending these events, but how is it not awkward for you to go? Especially with your friend in tow. Personally I feel like she may just be upset that she got caught. Of course idc her character, but I’ve seen the victim role played out so many times in several ways, I wouldn’t put it past anyone...

Answer 13

Asker

The Organiser kept sending us messages about the apparent racism, and we felt that defensiveness and repetition spoke volumes. There is no need to get so heavy, and she is the only one bringing drama to the situation. The white girl has been crying hard about this, and honestly - you can’t really prove racism from allegations of dirty looks and saying that she is ‘very white and very conservative’. Perhaps she’s just proud of her background, in the same way that black girls talk about black girl magic

Answer 14

Opinion Owner

It’s definitely a lot to be sending repeating messages about the incident. I also couldn’t prove that what your friend did is specifically racist, I’m just saying that I can understand how it could come across as such to the organizer, and even if to you it feels like she’s over reacting, the experience obviously did something to her and it’s not fair to invalidate her experience. All this to say, that group sounds like there’s a lot of drama anyway, and even if the organizer invited you all back formally, you could be subject to another issue. I’m not sure how things are in the UK, but on this side of the pond, there are a lot of groups to get involved in. I just feel like if you could find another group, you should at least try. Begin with a fresh start, new people, etc. it could be the best route all around.

Answer 15

Asker

So you acknowledge that her sending a total of 4 emails expressing upset about what she perceived to be “racism” is unreasonable pestering and overwhelming, right? She is the best organiser on the platform that we joined, and we get free drinks, entry and food, so that’s why we’re favouring the group. She’s offering it out gratis, so it’s no problem for us to expect to continue to receive this….

Answer 16

Opinion Owner

Yes, I believe several messages is excessive, however what I’m trying to relay to you isn’t pertaining to all of these messages, but the feelings of the sender. I think at the end of the day, this is one of those “choose your battles” sort of scenarios. I personally can’t think of any events that are worth a considerable amount of drama. I don't know if the situation needs a different approach or what, but the lengths you and your friends are going to to sweep the organizers feelings under the rug, just to continue having a good time just seems like a lot. Free food and drinks just aren’t worth it after so much exhaustion.

Answer 17

Mogtar

Xper 5

Mogtar thinks that girls is a dumbass. You don't call a black girl "very white". WTF. You call her a ho, or bitch, you don't call her "very white". That's basically "uncle tom" in the colloquial sense (not real sense which wouldn't even be an insult). Mogtar not into PC stuff but this is just so dumb. Of course, you're going to offend people that way. And there are consequences for that. Don't tell black girls they're "very white". Mogtar recommends getting a clue.

Mogtar

15 d
Now of course, she Spanish. Mogtar realize this. And Motgar knows that there are cultural gaps. Mogtar forgives. But that's very difficult for people to understand. They not smart like Mogtar. We can't expect everyone to be smart like Mogtar.

Answer 18

Mogtar

Now of course, she Spanish. Mogtar realize this. And Motgar knows that there are cultural gaps. Mogtar forgives. But that's very difficult for people to understand. They not smart like Mogtar. We can't expect everyone to be smart like Mogtar.

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