That is a very stark contrast to America.For example, on the small scale, I have a close friend who has asthma. They have to take half a day off to visit a doctor for an asthma checkup and prescription refill. The doctor refuses to give more than one fill for their rescue inhaler.The visits aren't covered by insurance, due to deductible, so it's anywhere from $100-200 per visit, plus the $30 cost of inhaler, and saying nothing about the lost work time, which as they told me is around $100, and being passed over for pay raises due to attendance issues solely related to visiting a doctor. That becomes incalculable.This person eats healthy, exercises, and doesn't smoke, barely drinks ever, but they're blamed for being at higher risk for a respiratory disease here. Someone condemned to a bad life, I suppose.
@RickPen ☹️ That’s really sad. I hope you guys get your Medicare for all or another form of universal healthcare soon. I do believe it is a human right...
Thanks for MHO!
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Don’t get why you have so many downvotes. Completely agree with you.
In America people actually die because they can’t afford insulin. Nobody dies in Canada because they can’t afford insulin. If you think that is a good system, then you need to travel more.
Yes, it is expensive to be healthy in America very true. Healthcare is so expensive But everything else he said was right about how the quality is good but also Americans are known for obesity and nowadays almost everyone I know vapes. Totally didn’t see it had a “cotinue reading” Just read the paragraph about African Americans yikes. Umm Some strange wording you got there @WadeDanielSmith. I’mEmbarrassed agreeing lol
Other part is healthcare as well. Maybe Canada is more efficient, but I imagine that U. S.'s hospitals in some states and areas have been overwhelmed and unable to properly care for all icu patients
You did the math wrong. You take deaths and divide by total population, then compare those so you have a fair per capita measurement. It looks like you took number tearing positive divided by deaths which depends on how many tests you run so it’s an artifact and shouldn’t be used in calculations.A random American is 3.5 times more likely to die than a random Canadian.
Ummm no it’s per capita. You are exactly 3.52 (three and a half) times more likely to die of coronavirus if you are an American compared to a Canadian. That is a huge difference so something is very wrong in America. I suspect it’s the terrible healthcare system...
I'm sorry, but your not doing your math correctly. If we are going by "per capita", that is population size, that would be a.009% death rate, but that would be meaningless because "per capita" is per person in the population and not the population that is infected vs. the number who have died. 29,798 people have died vs. 612,576 people who have been infected and 48,036 who have made a full recovery to date. So you take those who have died and divide it by those who have the disease and you get the same rates as in Canada. For Canada you have 27,063 who have been shown to be infected vs. 903 who have died and 8,253 who have recovered. So as I said, they are comparable and that's before we take into account that they are counting every death as a coronavirus death and our larger population size and concentrations.
You did the math wrong. I’m studying epidemiology and you incorporated a testing artificer which is incorrect. To compare dairy the death rate you simply take deaths and divide by total population to get the per capita rate.You took number of tested positive cases and divided it which is wrong. A guy below said why it’s wrong better than me:100 people you test 50, 10 die, you say 20%!Same 10 people you test 20, same 10 die, you say 50%! Much worse according to you! But they are the same 100 people.Per capita it’s 10% first scenario 10% second scenario... same thing which is true. That’s why my math is correct and your math is wrong.
No. That's not correct. You don't find the mortality rate of a disease by accounting for those who have never been infected. That's why they keep repeating that the mortality rate is 3% and not.008%. Also again, as I pointed out we have a far greater population, greater population density and new York has the largest population of Chinese outside of china and as such was more likely to get hit hard (which it was) due to the back and forth travel from the highly infected nation to the non infected population in New York. So even if we were to pretend that your doing that right (again, your not (unless your saying all the doctors and media are entirely wrong with how they have been doing their math and your the only one who is right (I suppose is possible but doesn't seem likely)) you would still have to control for that and your not. So since your not controlling for any variables, your not going to get an accurate measure (and this is before we get into the inflated numbers as they are counting flu deaths, heart attacks, stroke, and pneumonia as covid deaths).
Again you are absolutely wrong. I’ll say again using an example:Reality: 100 people, 10 die from corona virusYou:If you test 50 people, the mortality rate is 20%If you test 20 people, the mortality rate is 50%We used this example in class, do you we how your number change just depending on how many people were tested? That’s why your math would be wrongIn my math, the mortality rate from coronavirus is 10%. No matter how many non-deaths tested positive for coronavirus Because they are not part of the question asked.I don’t know how to make it more clear that your math is wrong...
In other words your math works perfectly if *everyone is tested*. Since that isn’t realistic we are competing the chance you will die in America can Canada, because we don’t have all the data to find a precise mortality rate (again see the example of how you would be estimating 20% when the real mortality rate is unknown)
yes but your math only works if every one is infected which is highly improbable. Also again, your ignoring literally everything else. That's like comparing a your 903 deaths and ignoring the population size, its a meaningless number without context. Also again, complain to the media because how they are calculating mortality rate is by the way I described, that's how they are doing it so talk to them. As for everything else, again, this is just an attempt to belittle and insult the US (again your ignoring population sizes, your ignoring population density etc. etc. so either your really bad at this or your intentionally being misleading), which quite frankly I'm tired of people doing. Go push your propaganda elsewhere I'm not playing this game with some one who is going to politicise and use this even to try and slander another nation just to make themselves feel good about themselves (all while being entirely wrong as well).
At least you see your error. My assumption is that those who died of respiratory disease were tested for corona. In both Canada and USA this should be standard practice. Even if a few cases don’t get tested for some reason, it’s a much better metric than the one you used!
their was no error, I pointed that out. You get the mortality rate by dividing those who have died from the infected and/or those at risk which is not the entire population. As such your math is wrong and its still wrong. Also again, as I have pointed out numerous times which you continue to ignore, we have higher population density, we have the largest population of Chinese people outside of china who where more then likely infected before this outbreak occurred due to going back and forth between china and the US, and they are conflating all deaths with coronavirus deaths. So again, you where wrong and even if you were not (but again, you were) its still not an accurate measure.
Also maybe you could tell me why you deleted my comment that showed that the US has done more testing then Canada? Again, your just trying to slander the US because that's what people like doing now a days.
This is a lie, you’re lying about testing more in USA vs Canadahttps://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus
No I didn't: dailycaller.com/.../
I know right!Are you from Canada?
@Caramel_creme The UK
@SteveSocFootBase and we found the white knight. how cute
Canada 700 deaths America 22000, but USA is 10x bigger so that means It is more than 3 times worse in the USA Compared to Canada... something is very wrong in the American healthcare system
According to worldometers. info, out of the 561, 159 total cases in the U. S., 22,133 resulted in death. That's 3.94%. In Canada, there have been 24,383 cases and 717 deaths. That comes out to 2.94%. 3.94 is not three times as large as 2.94. It's not twice as large. It's not even 50% larger. So while it's true that America's healthcare system probably accounts for the higher percentage, it's only a 1% difference.
Your math is wrong, you need to compare deaths per capita... you compared number of deaths per positive test, which doesn’t make any sense...
You're suggesting I count deaths of people who didn't test positive for covid? I don't see how that makes more sense.
Ugh... no your comparison made absolutely no sense. You have to compare deaths by covid19 in the states vs Canada by capita.The USA has over 3 times the deaths per capita than Canada. This is a huge difference!
In other words you are three times more likely to die from covid if you are an American compared to being a Canadian. You are way way way safer to live in Canada. It has something to do with the healthcare system
For every 100 Canadians who are infected with Covid, 2.94 die. For every 100 Americans who get infected, 3.94 die. There's your per capita. Per capita comes from what the percentages are. Yes, you're less likely to get sick or die from covid in Canada. It's a mostly suburban area while America is largely urban. The reason we aren't counting people who didn't get infected is because those people never had to go through the healthcare system because they were never sick. The healthcare system is completely irrelevant to people who never go through it.
Again you are completely wrong. You are comparing the number of people *tested* for covid that ended up dying, this is an artifact of testing. And also you don't know what per capita means... I'm nearly done my degree in epidemiology (lucky me!) so I will explain slower:Take 100000 random Americans. The chance of them dying from corona virus is 22,106/328,200,000*100000 which is 6.7 expected dead from coronavirusTake 100000 random Canadians. The chance of them dying from corona virus is 734/37,500,000*100000 which is 1.9 expected dead from coronavirus So *exactly*... USA is 6.7/1.9 times worse, or three and half times worse than Canada. You are three and a half times more likely to die from coronavirus if you are a random American vs a random Canadian.
And again, your argument was that it was due to the healthcare system. And again, you insisted on using people who did not take part in the healthcare system and provided numbers completely irrelevant to the subject to force a statistic that matched what you wanted it to say. That's called a statistical bias. You would have gotten a failing grade.
Are you mansplaining to me my own degree in epidemiology? Seriously? Especially when you made so many mistakes lolI gave you the actual data that shows that you are 3.5 times more likely to die of coronavirus if you are an American vs Canadian.You used testing artifacts which makes no sense. Your data would only make sense if *everybody* in both countries were tested. This is what you are saying: If only 1 person is tested, and they get positive and die, then you are arguing that 100% die from the disease! Do you see how wrong you are? Your data depends on the number of people tested, which is not the question. My data is actual deaths...
No, as someone who actually has a degree already, I'm explaining statistics. If your argument is about the healthcare system and its effectiveness on covid, then only people infected with covid are relevant. If you're changing your argument to your chances of getting and dying from covid without any relation to the healthcare system, then your numbers work. If you still wish to argue the effectiveness of the healthcare system, then you need to stick to the numbers of people who actually participated in it.
Also, when you do get your degree and start working, it really helps to be able to get along with colleagues. That means maintaining a level head and not getting aggressive and insulting people when you have a disagreement. You should work on that.
You assumed 100% testing, which is just foolish. But you don't understand why that is wrong. If I gave your assumption to 100 statisticians, 0 would agree with you, because it's such a stupid assumption.
No assumptions. Just facts. If that bothers you this much, maybe you should be considering coming to America instead of trying to convince people to go to Canada. Your absolute rage toward facts or anyone who disagrees with your baseless beliefs would really fit in here. You're arguably the most American person I've met in a long time. Kudos.
You are comparing apples to oranges. Our population density is MUCH greater in the US.In Utah, the death rate per million is about 1/3 of Canada's. Does that mean the healthcare in Utah is 3 times better than Canada? Not necessarily, it means there's less chance of transmission when people live 36 to a square mile vs. 11000+ in Toronto or 27000 in New York City.
@Madhatter920 I'm a stats nerd and I read this thread because I'm bored. But she is correct and you are not correct, but maybe I can explain why better than she did.Imagine 100 people and 50 were tested, and 10 died. You would say that 20% died. Imagine the same 100 people but you tested only 20, and the same 10 did. You would say it's 50%. Much worse! In fact, those are the exact same 100 people.So she was right to compare the death rate per capita, because it doesn't fall for this flaw in logic. You are 3.5 times more likely to die as an American than Canadian.I hope I explained this better than she did. I teach stats for a living (well I used to...)
US healthcare is not fine, the United States is the only developed country on earth where people actually die from lack of insulin because they can't afford it.
@SteveSocFootBaseNot perfect but good overall. Insulin costs are very high, but manageable.The rate of type two diabetes in this country is terrible, but Americans make a lot of poor health choices that contribute.
It’s not, the per capita rate is three and a half times greater in USA va Canada. A random American is 3.52 times more likely to die than a Canadian. That is a huge difference
Yes, the narrative set my the leaders and the media plays a big role in controlling the virus
Yep. That has been made extremely clear by people on this site as well.
@musicbrain5 It's so silly to me. Like why wouldn't you play it safe, even if to make other people feel better?
Because to them it’s all about ME ME ME - “It’s not affecting ME”, “There are no cases in MY town”, “It’s MY right to do whatever I want”, etc. Lots of Americans have a very egocentric view of themselves and this situation is really bringing that to the forefront.
@musicbrain5 American self-centeredness really is in a league of it's own
I guess you’ve also noticed the huge uptick in conspiracy theories. Some people on GAG particularly are really slapping on their tinfoil hats. Hell, at this rate they’ll be trying to cover their whole house in tinfoil.
@musicbrain5 my mom believes COVID is a conspiracy, and I've noticed a few people on here talking about conspiracies as well. I generally tune that stuff out though. My attitude about stuff like that is "does it really matter?" Does whether or not the shit came from a viral weaponry super lab really change anything about whether or not you should take precautions to avoid getting sick?
Canada has tested 10x the rate of Americans. Ten times...
Canada has tested about 50,000 people though? The US has tested over a million. Thats not ten times more, in fact that would be the US, taking into account population size, testing three times more then Canada.
@hellionthesagereborn it was reported a little while ago that Canada has tested the same as the USA (over 100k), despite having 1/10th the population. It was in the news. It may have changed recently, but this wasn’t very long ago.
That still isn't as many people dumbass. Lmao rates. Nice strawman
Do you not understand the concept of per capita? Dude that’s pretty basic stuff
over a million people have been tested, nearly two million, so that is even taking into account population is far more then Canada. As I stated before, what your doing is trying to slander the US, insult us, and try to belittle our system. That's why you keep lying. You lied about the death rates, you lied about the testing all in an attempt to what? Push healthcare for all that failes miserablly? The fact is this is an agenda for you, not an argument about facts and you know it.
@hellionthesagereborn new the stats:USA 39,158 deaths in 328.2 million people or 119 die per millionCanada 1,470 deaths in 37.59 million 39 die per million119/35 = 3If you are a random American you are THREE TIMES more likely to die of coronavirus than you are a Canadian. THREE TIMES. That is so much worse...
Okay, again, your math is wrong. You do not use the entire population, you use those at risk i. e. those infected. I'm sorry that your not understanding that. Also again, they are counting flu deaths, pneumonia deaths, heart attacks, and stroke in those "coronavirus" numbers as well (provably so). Again, the only thing your trying to do is slander and belittle americans and our system to justify your shitty life and system and quite frankly I don't have the patience for this anymore. You want to hate the US, great get in fucking line, but don't sit their and lie about the facts, I cannot tolerate liars.
Also your a coward, trying to attack another nation and tear them down because you can't build up your self or your own people and you do so anonymously, that's pathetic.
@hellionthesagereborn no your math is wrong, you don’t use those infected because that changes depending on how many people you test. Deaths are way more important than testsBut it’s bizarre you are defending American healthcare which is by far the worst system in the developed world. People literally die because they c ant afford insulin. That does not happen in any other developed country. Americans have a higher infant mortality, lower life span, higher cost (Americans spend twice as much on insurance than Canadians pay in taxes), lower survival at pregnancy, all these are facts. At least rely on facts and not your opinikn
Per capita rate is 3.52 times worse in USA. So you are over three and a half times more likely to die if you are an American compared to Canadian.
Ok, well, so far I haven't seen any good explanations. I'll check back.
Per capita Americans are dying at three and a half times the rate of Canadians. (3.52 to be precise)
That’s because it contracted covid.Deciding whether it was covid or a compilation because of an underlying condition is hard. There’s going to be some inaccuracies but better to count them as covid than to downplay this. Regardless of how you count the deaths, there’s still a fuckton of deaths and if it’s not covid, then that’s perhaps and even worse problem.
The one day bn old did not. It was born to a mother that had. The poor thing died due to it was only 22 weeks old. I know a doctor that is arguing why his patients death certificates were changed after he signed them for other cause of death. One was cardiac.
Well did they have covid? If they had a cardiac arrest because of covid complications, then I don’t see the issue.
No, vivid does not deal with cardiac issues. A heart attack.
So you think that your own lungs drowning you would put zero pressure on your heart to work harder?
With a 98.5% survival rate. Why all the fear? That's a better rate than the regular yearly flu.
And my doctor friend said there was no corona virus present in their bodies.
If there was no coronavirus in them then do some digging and let journalists know."98.5% survival rate" is not better than the flu and that 98.5% survival rate *with treatment*.Those are not chances we should be taking, that's such a dumb argument, no one wants to be in a 1/100 lottery where if your number comes up, you die. Scale it up to 100 million people infected, that would be a million people dead, and that's assuming the hospitals aren't overwhelmed. Do we really need to keep explaining this after a month of pandemic?
Depending on the year, the flu takes 2.5-4% of its victims yearly. So yes, mortality rate with this is better. And I agree no one wants to be that 1%. But every year tens of thousands die from the flu and no one bats an eye. Simple things like vit C, lowering the bodies PH, simple hygiene works. But let's not put that on the news.
No, just no, stop. The flu mortality is 0.1%.500,000 people die from the flu across the world because 50,000,000 million people get infected. But it’s hospitalization rate is low. Sure, we should be better about dealing with the flu, but covid is way worse and it spreads faster.Covid has 1% mortality *at the very least* and I’m really lowballing it and this is with all our social distancing measures. Covid has a ~20% hospitalization rate and that’s what can really fuck things up. The survival rate is high when you can get treatment, but when 20% hospitalization overwhelms hospitals and there are no ventilators for you then you’re in trouble. Not to mention the *permanent* lung damage that many survivors are going to have.Dial back your crazy lest people actually listen and fuck everything up for everyone else.
*50,000,000 (50 million)
Where did you hear that it takes hours, days or months to get emergency medical attention in Canada? Simply not the case unless you are in the territories and have to be airlifted.
@musicbrain5 I live in Canada so I know and have experienced it from many angles
I live in Canada too and the only time I have to wait for care is if I get referred to a specialist. Maybe I’ll wait a month or maybe two months. Also I’m in Toronto where we have like a zillion doctor’s offices and hospitals, so maybe things are just more accessible to me 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
that would make a difference bc Toronto is densely populated so there is lots of places to seek medical care. In other cities it's not as accessible bc there isn't as many
I’d still rather wait for treatment here where there is not cost to me (besides ambulance and funding through taxes), than potentially go bankrupt or take out second or third mortgages just to afford treatment in the US.
Canada as of last week tested 10 times the rate of Americans. Ten times...
It could also be because the outbreak happened during the winter time and not many people leave their houses there because the winters there are so brutal.
it's per capita
Its erelivent your people are jammed closer therefore greater chance of disease transmission plus its still winterish in Canada so we naturally spend more time indoors away from people
10 times the population of Canada? Do you really have 375 million people in the state of California? Best check your facts.
No thst many people in the usa. California has a population of 39.51 million people Canada has 37.59million people
He meant to put a comma after "10 times more people." So this statement would have came out "the US has 10 times more people, there is more people in California than all of Canada so the US has a far greater population density." Which is slightly inaccurate as we have just under 9 times Canada's population in America.
It’s per capita
I don't think it matters what captial its at
Lol @humanearth fucking hell 😂
Lol, please tell me you are not serious lol
Only if I get a MHO...