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What's Your Opinion? Sign Up Now! *The questions: How could it be not?
God is good and righteous (and hint: you are not)*
Thanks, you seem like a swell guy too.
Can you prove your assertion?
A prove for God or that he is a righteous judge?
One the former one, you can ask librarys written by men or people who believing. Others, as the bible also say, look only out of the window or at their own hand and can't grasp any doubt about it.
But I have also a personal experience on his power...
... and so I believed his whole revalation to us, which includes that he is a righteous and good and holy, personal Being is.
It would be even logically strange, that we, his creation have a sense for morale and justice and normally prefer good over evil and our creator would not, but opposite in essence.
*A prove for God or that he is a righteous judge?*
You'd need to prove the former before the latter.
*you can ask librarys written by men or people who believing*
Belief does not equal truth.
*Others, as the bible also say, look only out of the window or at their own hand and can't grasp any doubt about it.*
I assume this point here is about people not trying to understand? If so, just because someone doesn't believe what you believe does not mean they don't understand your beliefs.
*But I have also a personal experience on his power... *
And alien abductees also claim to have experienced alien abduction. This has no bearing on truth.
*... and so I believed his whole revalation to us which includes that he is a righteous and good and holy, personal Being is. *
Would a good person endorse slavery?
*It would be even logically strange, that we, his creation have a sense for morale and justice and normally prefer good over evil and our creator would not, but opposite in essence.*
What I think you're saying here is that, like god, we are good or that we lean towards good.
I think there is adequate evidence to prove that humans are mercurial and inconsistent. Some actions we take are good and some actions we take are bad.
In would rather you apologize for calling me not *good*, which is basically the equivalent of saying I'm bad.
No I wont't. We talk about Gods standard and against this the most noble person is bad and corrupt. Jesus called even his old disciples evil:
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. "
How many lies have you told? Three? On one day sometimes and sometimes propbably more! Even one lie in your whole life is enough to make it legit call you a liar. And a lie begins by holding back the whole truth.
Ever looked full of desire at a woman lustful? Commited adulterer in heart.
Never been angry or prideful or envious at your fellow man? (Murder begins in heart.)
Not worshipped God and loved over all?
You fall short:
"No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
I am only the messenger. Seek the truth. The first thing could be, that you admit - when you look at the ten commandments, that you broke them all and ARE not good.
*No I wont't.*
Ok, but this does make you look like a dooshbag.
*We talk about Gods standard and against this the most noble person is bad and corrupt.*
And I don't believe in your god. I have seen no evidence of it. I see no use in your gods moral standard either as its useless - if the best person is corrupt in comparison then it's a pointlessly high standard that doesn't help.
*Jesus called even his old disciples evil*
Sounds like a dick.
*How many lies have you told? Three? On one day sometimes and sometimes propbably more! Even one lie in your whole life is enough to make it legit call you a liar. *
Ah the old Ray Comfort gig, huh? I've done good things too. Does that make me a good person? Or do only bad things count?
*And a lie begins by holding back the whole truth.*
Well my friend, do you care about truth?
*Ever looked full of desire at a woman lustful? Commited adulterer in heart.*
Are you paying Ray for his one liners? Do only arranged marriages count in your world?
*Never been angry or prideful or envious at your fellow man?*
Never sought self betterment? Never tried to keep up with the Jones'?
* (Murder begins in heart.) *
And our heads rule our hearts.
*Not worshipped God and loved over all? *
Nope. He sounds like a dick.
*Seek the truth*
What is your metric for determining truth?
*The first thing could be, that you admit - when you look at the ten commandments, that you broke them all and ARE not good.*
I don't hold up good under the ten commandments. So?
Here's a thought experiment for you buddy.
You don't measure up to Khorne.
Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it does. Have you killed anyone in Khorne's name? Tut tut tut. You should get better at that.
Khorne demand slaughter and the scent of blood daily. Not looking so good are you?
Khorne demands skulls to place upon his skull throne. Not done that have you?
Have you ever backed down? Have you ever avoided a fight? Have you ever allowed another to cow you and make you fearful? Ooh, Khorne's not going to be happy with you. He has a special place for cowards in his castle of brass - you get fed to the bloodletters for eternity. You don't want that do you?
How do you know you were dead before you were conceived? To be dead doesn't mean you never lived. You was not dead in 1900. You weren't born yet.
It's a TS Elliot quote. Dead here is a place holder for unalive.
You going to respond to my other questions btw?
How can I respond whether you were troubled by it or not? Of course it is obvious you were not troubled by it, especially considering you were un-alive. To be troubled, you must have some form of life to you. So it didn't merit a response.
*How can I respond whether you were troubled by it or not?*
No, no - my other questions. The interactions you and I have had outside of this one thread.
Learn to read good.
I don't keep up with them all and I mute questions if you keep cussing. I will have to manually go to my questions and see which is muted considering there's no way to unmute them all at once.
No it isn't. I've warned you plenty of times not to cuss. This is stupid conversation. You know where I stand on atheism. It is my position that people who claim to be atheists aren't aware they actually believe in God.
If you continue after this, I'm going to be through with it. I'm tired of being harassed and questioned every 3 minutes while doing opinions and questions.
If you got any last thing to say, say it now but ain't answering any follow up questions. If you ain't interested in why my position is that atheists aren't real and let me explain why and you'll just rage and name call, then it is pointless.
*No it isn't. I've warned you plenty of times not to cuss.*
You actually haven't.
*You know where I stand on atheism*
And it's a stupid, willfully so, position you hold.
*it is my position that people who claim to be atheists aren't aware they actually believe in God.*
Do you also use that logic for the existence of Bigfoot?
*If you continue after this, I'm going to be through with it. I'm tired of being harassed and questioned every 3 minutes while doing opinions and questions. *
You could always just admit that you are not engaging honestly.
*If you got any last thing to say, say it now but ain't answering any follow up questions.*
How stunning and brave.
*If you ain't interested in why my position is that atheists aren't real and let me explain why and you'll just rage and name call, then it is pointless.*
I don't know how you could even begin to evidence a claim like that. If you think you can then go ahead.
Why do you mock me by copying things I say?
It doesn't matter what evidences I give, you will just bypass it off. You ain't excited that we have this evidence. You'd just want to rage.
Hello sheepdip.
I agree that I used the law of God similar to Ray Comfort - besides that I think he is a heretic, because he says, that we has to "turn from our sins", stop sinning to get right with God. That is not the gospel of grace, not even possible in this fallen flesh, who sinning in toughts already plenty everyday, still after getting the new life and spirit of God.
But I will leave you with this. I see no sense in strive and empty arguments.
You know the message, but when ear, heart and mind is closed, then only God can work on you.
I spoke of my experience, I also heard of the truth 2-3 times and dismissed it as crazy, lazy, stupid, backwards and so on before my eyes were opened.
But when there may be sincerely intellectual questions left, I could may be answer them or point to Persons with more knowledge and wisdom.
God bless you.
*I agree that I used the law of God similar to Ray Comfort*
Not a good start.
*besides that I think he is a heretic, because he says, that we has to "turn from our sins", stop sinning to get right with God*
You worship something that, in your mind, created you sick and now commands you to be well. Even if you believe that, is it not morally imperative to free yourself from this psychotic monster, over throw it and shatter the hold it has on other people? And yet you can't even prove it is real.
*But I will leave you with this*
You'll "leave" because actually staying and fighting for your position - as you are commanded in Peter 315 I believe (I may be misremembering the number). You'll "leave" with a tright little blessing in favour of being an adult and thinking about your position.
You'll "leave" because you do not have truth on your side or rational reasons for your beliefs.
You'll "leave" because "flee" makes you realise what a coward you are.
*i see no sense in strive and empty arguments.*
Because you have none.
*You know the message, but when ear, heart and mind is closed, then only God can work on you. *
Pray for it. In the mean time show me how you arrived at your conclusions.
*I spoke of my experience*
No you didn't. You said "but u also have personal experience on his power" and left it at that. Shoot, give me this personal testimony.
*I also heard of the truth 2-3 times and dismissed it as crazy, lazy, stupid, backwards and so on before my eyes were opened. *
So what convinced you?
*But when there may be sincerely intellectual questions left, I could may be answer them or point to Persons with more knowledge and wisdom. *
I'll ask the same thing I've always asked; what evidence do you have of your god?
*God bless you.*
And may Khorne bestow upon you a mighty axe so that you may slaughter in his name.
"created you sick and now commands you to be well"
Where did I say this? You know bible well, so you know, that it is a fallen place. The first problem is, that we even forgotten that. So God gave the law, that sin will abound and we see, that we couldn't do it.
And already at the start, after the first sin, God promised the messiah, who will crush the head of the serpant, so since then humans waited for this messiah to come.
My testimony in short, the core: Supernatural eye opening at reading of a Testimony of a Christian, who went to a Reiki Healer (spiritual/energy healing), in which account the healer had no effect to her. He said, "that this is why the Spirit in you is stronger than which I am working. When you had denied Jesus as God once, I would have power over you."
part 1/2
I practised Reiki and thousand of things from naturapathy over other borderline para-science until clear magic stuff. And there I had supernatural experiencies, so for me it was easier to accept the supernatural things in the bible, because I saw and felt them. Only, that I opened up to evil spirit entitys (demons) I was not aware, also that there could be anythings wrong with this all - besides that I got troubles physical more and more also because of my high spiritual energy senses. But it got me - silently and slow - step by step downwards - on physical and mental level. I searched for healing and self-improvement AND for truth. What and how was the world. Is it evil? Is it good? What is after dead?
The second miracle about this time I came to believe, that I prayed to Jesus, that he please save me. Still today I don't know why, because Jesus never played a role in this whole esoteric phase. He was a high teacher with high consciousness and high abilities - not even the highest - , but trough cleansing and self-improvement everybody can reach this - so most of these teachings told.
I was baptized as as child, but raised without God - but was also never a God denying Atheist. He was not a thing I tought about.
So I said I was sensitive of the spiritual energys and after I came to faith, that Jesus is the Son of God I looked in a Lutheran catechism of my mom from her confirmation and prayed the Lords prayer the first time and know instantly that there is a new power there. Faith is not a feeling, but at this time it was kind of assurance. I had like I said opened to demons and I know that at least one is physical in me. I was withhin me fore most at my leg. The story how I came to this specially is a own substory, but I knew it was something there - one affirmation of the power of Jesus was that all this shit stopped within short time, I got free and I got physical and mental upwards in shortest time after months of regular doctor visits and alternative/esoteric-"medicine"-help without effect. Then I learned, that man has to work - I was a more or less student over time - and got one week later a job/training space. Bible (Genesis 1-3) was the best explanation of the world and what every human experience here. Besides that all search for anymore anywhere else stopped. Many of the far east philosophies and supernatural teachings maybe not complete false (about chakras maybe, the connection of frequencies to different natural things) and was often logically and intuitively right, there was still no spot on or stop for search. Jesus was the end. He is the truth. Without knowing for what I really was searching I found the answer. Or the answer found me.
So what to do with this? I normally tell nobody this story, because it is so special and non- reproducible.
so 3/3
*"created you sick and now commands you to be well" Where did I say this?*
This is original sin, rendered in simple terms.
*You know bible well, so you know, that it is a fallen place.*
Well, no, the bible isn't a place - man is fallen and this earth is fallen. But I don't believe that.
*So God gave the law*
Prove that.
*And already at the start, after the first sin, God promised the messiah, who will crush the head of the serpant, so since then humans waited for this messiah to come.*
And both Jews and Muslims disagree that Jesus was messiah. You need to convince them as well as me. In fact they believe in the same god, so you've got an easier time convincing them.
*Supernatural eye opening at reading of a Testimony of a Christian*
You listened to a Christian and... that's it? Do you want to listen to me about Khorne?
*who went to a Reiki Healer (spiritual/energy healing), in which account the healer had no effect to her. He said, "that this is why the Spirit in you is stronger than which I am working. When you had denied Jesus as God once, I would have power over you."
So... mumbojumbo and nothing more.
Do you think this should convince me?
*I practised Reiki and thousand of things from naturapathy over other borderline para-science until clear magic stuff.*
Oh boy, can you prove any of THAT?
*And there I had supernatural experiencies*
Such as?
*so for me it was easier to accept the supernatural things in the bible, because I saw and felt them.*
What supernatural event has ever been found to be supernatural when investigated?
*Only, that I opened up to evil spirit entitys (demons) I was not aware, also that there could be anythings wrong with this all - besides that I got troubles physical more and more also because of my high spiritual energy senses*
You realise this sounds ridiculous. Proof of any of these things please.
*but it got me - silently and slow - step by step downwards - on physical and mental level. I searched for healing and self-improvement AND for truth.*
A doctor might have been better.
*The second miracle*
There was a first miracle?
*about this time I came to believe, that I prayed to Jesus, that he please save me.*
Why would that be credible to you?
* I looked in a Lutheran catechism of my mom from her confirmation and prayed the Lords prayer the first time and know instantly that there is a new power there*
How?
*Faith is not a feeling*
Faith is about as reliable as chance. I can believe anything based on faith right - I could believe white people are superior to black people and take it on faith (and I would be wrong). Faith is not a pathway to truth.
*but at this time it was kind of assurance*
And there's the money shot. It made you feel better, so its true. What happens when something else makes you feel better, will that be the new truth? When that happens think of me.
*i had like I said opened to demons*
Can you prove demons?
*and I know that at least one is physical in me*
Giggedy.
* was withhin me fore most at my leg*
And how do you know that isn't just some kind of illness?
*Many of the far east philosophies and supernatural teachings maybe not complete false *
More things that need proving.
*jesus was the end. He is the truth.*
For now. You'll get to Khorne eventually.
*Without knowing for what I really was searching I found the answer. Or the answer found me. *
If you did not know the question, how can you be certain of the answer?
*So what to do with this? I normally tell nobody this story, because it is so special and non- reproducible.*
How inconvenient for those of us who care about truth.
It were not only "good feelings". At this the esoteric would probably be superior or fall at least not wide short. This is the whole thing. Nobody would do these things, when they would not give some emotional relief or good lullable feeling or kind of energy.
But with God this was other. And he freed me. But this were only part of the things which brought assurance. The greatest was not a feeling, but a knowing. I cannot explain this fully, but found later in scripture some verses, which touches this:
(Joh 15:26 [KJV])
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"
(Röm 8:16 [KJV])
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Mt 16:16,17
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Also later I read some Christian books about the proof of the resurrection, arguments for God, creation etc. from which I first thought , that every man has to believe, when they only know and see this so clearly - without relying on sometimes more or less subjective personal testimonies. That it's not so easy after all and scripture is also clear, that many will not belief - despite any things - is not hindering to share the message.
*supernatural things: Feeling the spirit of persons behind, extreme feelings of colors (like a red book was hot like hell in my handy), changing the color and structure of gems and stones trough mental-energy-work, influence of minor actions (dicing result in games or telefone call of special person, last one is subjective, some would say that was coincidence.)
Good night, I have to go to sleep. (I am from Germany)
*It were not only "good feelings". At this the esoteric would probably be superior or fall at least not wide short. This is the whole thing. Nobody would do these things, when they would not give some emotional relief or good lullable feeling or kind of energy.*
Yup, those are words. What they mean I have no idea.
*But with God this was other. And he freed me*
Before you make claims about a thing you need to establish it exists.
*But this were only part of the things which brought assurance. The greatest was not a feeling, but a knowing*
Knowledge can be demonstrated. Demonstrate god. Now, or you're full of shit.
*I cannot explain this fully*
You can't explain this at all and have, over the course of several days and several thousand words, proven that you lack any explanation for your beliefs.
*but found later in scripture some verses, which touches this*
If I came to you with a comic book and said it proves Spider-Man would you take me seriously? I don't think the bible is an accurate predictor, commentator or descriptor of reality.
*Also later I read some Christian books about the proof of the resurrection, arguments for God, creation etc. from which I first thought , that every man has to believe, when they only know and see this so clearly - without relying on sometimes more or less subjective personal testimonies.*
What? You've used personal experience to justify your other stuff - why ditch it now? Is it not good enough?
*That it's not so easy after all and scripture is also clear, that many will not belief - despite any things - is not hindering to share the message.*
How convenient. You're essentially saying heads I win, tales you lose.
**supernatural things: Feeling the spirit of persons behind, extreme feelings of colors (like a red book was hot like hell in my handy), changing the color and structure of gems and stones trough mental-energy-work, influence of minor actions (dicing result in games or telefone call of special person, last one is subjective, some would say that was coincidence.)**
Prove that.
*Good night, I have to go to sleep. (I am from Germany)*
And I'm from England - looks like we're having ourselves another WW1.
*Why do you mock me by copying things I say? *
You mean like this? Its not mockery (not fully at least), its so you know exactly what I'm responding to.
*It doesn't matter what evidences I give, you will just bypass it off*
Give me something worth a damn and we'll see. If all you've got is shit evidence, well... you might just not have a good reason for your beliefs.
*You ain't excited that we have this evidence. You'd just want to rage.*
How can I rage at something I don't think exists? Am i angry at voldemort? Santa? Khorne? You got anything better than pathetic mewling?
"Yup, those are words. What they mean I have no idea."
I wanted to say, that good feelings could not be enough to validating the new truth, because good feelings could all esoteric stuff give also and is one of the main reasons, people consume this, without being really changed or fulfilled. On the other side, good feelings are not good feelings. When you found your lost penny in a pocket you feel happy and when you experience birth of your own child you feel happy. But the intensity and outstanding experience is clearly only the latter one. Same with God. So alone trough this power and the overwhelming joy I experienced it was clear, that this is not some of a "new tool".
"Before you make claims about a thing you need to establish it exists." I said it. The works of creation is enough, that you has no apology before him, but with the appearance of Jesus Christ the denyieng of God is either lack of knowledge or evil will. "Prove that." Thats a stupid command. First I could not document things in my mind, in the unseen realm and have also not shot Photos of the stones before and after (at the last I am not so sure, but I deleted it surely, if so) "What? You've used personal experience to justify your other stuff - why ditch it now? Is it not good enough?" What? You didn't get the order right, I read christian books after my conversion. They give a strengthening of my faith, and after I read them I know, that nobody could say: I never had such supernatural experience/encounter, so I was not able to believe. No.
The books I know have also an English version/original of my shelve:
Lee Strobel: The case for Christ
Mark Cahill: One Heartbeat Away: Your Journey Into Eternity
Christianity: "Opium or Truth" (Lennox/Gooding)
C. S. Lewis: "Miracles"
Timothy Keller: "Why God"
Tim Lahaye. "Why believe in Jesus?"
5 crucial question about Christianity (there is a website with free pdf)
Questions I have always wanted to ask - English (Werner Gitt) also free pdf online
A comic book doesn't claim to be God's word.
I stumbled not over the book, but it is the book, which gives testimony of Jesus Christ and since I came to faith in Christ it would be only logical to come to know him more and deeper trough his book.
If you had a revelation, that spiderman is real, then you would not look in the bible, but in the comic book.
The king of kings came as lowly servant, is now in heaven, waiting for sinner to come to him to find grace and will come back as judge. I hope you will not die like you are now. At least be wise and proof at best. Search the truth.
When you have an interest in some above I would also give it as gift (kindle version of so) to you.
I have a little hope, besides that I have the impression that I am talking to a hard, prideful stone.
I came to faith as the virgin came to the child, but God wants us to seek him and he promises in the Bible that he will reward seekers.
Deuteronomy 4:29: But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and soul.
*I wanted to say, that good feelings could **not** be enough to validating the new truth... So alone trough this power and the **overwhelming joy** I experienced it was clear*
Do you not see the contradiction here?
*the works of creation is enough*
Donuts prove a donut fairy. Gotcha.
*that you has no apology before him, but with the appearance of Jesus Christ the denyieng of God is either lack of knowledge or evil will*
And you have yet to convince me that either exist.
*Prove that." Thats a stupid command. First I could not document things in my mind, in the unseen realm and have also not shot Photos of the stones before and after*
Its only stupid if you make a claim you can't prove.
*What? You didn't get the order right, I read christian books after my conversion.*
You've used personal experience for everything you mentioned so far - your healing stuff, your voodoo doctors and these demon claims. You've used personal experience for everything and then you claimed your personal wasn't enough which is why you went to scripture.
*The books I know have also an English version/original of my shelve: *
And? You want a refutation of these books?
*A comic book doesn't claim to be God's word.*
Yeah, but I can claim it is and I know new York exists so that MUST mean there is a Spider-Man.
*I stumbled not over the book, but it is the book, which gives testimony of Jesus Christ and since I came to faith in Christ it would be only logical to come to know him more and deeper trough his book. *
Assuming it is true. His own biography would be better though.
*If you had a revelation, that spiderman is real, then you would not look in the bible, but in the comic book. *
And we can see that the comic book is clearly false. Guess what else we can see is false.
*The king of kings came as lowly servant, is now in heaven, waiting for sinner to come to him to find grace and will come back as judge. I hope you will not die like you are now. At least be wise and proof at best. Search the truth.*
My you take up the axe and denounce the Changer of Ways for Khornes wrath is great and his reach long. May you die in service to the blood god so that your skull sits on his throne as a trophy, rather than at his feet like garbage.
*When you have an interest in some above I would also give it as gift (kindle version of so) to you. *
And I can give you the axe of Khorne.
*I have a little hope, besides that I have the impression that I am talking to a hard, prideful stone. *
I am not the one who is incapable of providing evidence and yet still holds his position.
*I came to faith as the virgin came to the child*
... that sounds like something a pedo would do.
*God wants us to seek him and he promises in the Bible that he will reward seekers. *
Khorne will make you one of his hounds isn't you want.
*Deuteronomy 4:29: But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and soul.*
If I quoted a comic book to you what impact would it make?
"Do you not see the contradiction here?"
Yeah, I see it you are right here.
Better would be said: If you accept it as proof is subjective to you willingness. At this time good feelings corresponded with truth for me. For other people, may even my currently person, would say this is not enough. But this was a answer of this response of you: "It made you feel better, so its true. What happens when something else makes you feel better, will that be the new truth? When that happens think of me." It had another quality, not quantity. It is foolish to think that feelings equate truth, but also that the creator of our senses could not use this. There are thousand ways to Jesus and also with many different emotional experiences.
"Donuts prove a donut fairy. Gotcha."
You are a fool, but I agree: Because there is a donut there must be someone, who planned it and made it. It didn't evolved magically. From nothing.
" You've used personal experience for everything and then you claimed your personal wasn't enough which is why you went to scripture."
Were did I say "not enough". To get another assurance is fine, but was not necessary for my personal faith. I only said, that I cannot fully explain the mysterious ways how God interact with mans free will, revelation, mind, salvation, redemption. The scripture verses I quoted give a hint of this, but as humans we will never be able to understand the unseen spiritual things.
For you the question is not there. You see everything as pure psychology materialistic. But you can perhaps explain with it some sorts of mind changing, but not why it is especially Jesus Christ, who not only with me, but with millions of other people, even if they have never heard of him before, like me, he opens his power over evil, healings and a recognition of the truth, who draws the people to him.
"Yeah, but I can claim it is and I know new York exists so that MUST mean there is a Spider-Man."
Maybe there is. You can believe in Spider-Man, but this doesn't touch the existence or nonexistence of God and the higher position of God as powerful eternal Creator: If Spider-Man exist has no influence in my life. Neither here, not after my death. But if God exist and the Bible is the truth, than it will be so.
And that it not only a placative claim, that the bible is Gods word, is in uniqueness of the book itself:
- many dozen writers of different time, status, personality and nonetheless: there is like a red thread there
- fulfilled prophecies about city, nations, persons, Jesus himself
- convicted many people by reading that it is from God (supernatural itself, but also greater wisdom, I know not all Christians would agree with me on the former here)
"... that sounds like something a pedo would do."
Ok, that idiom is unknown in the English language. My fault. ^^ Translator said: to fall into sb.'s lap
*If you accept it as proof is subjective to you willingness.*
That makes no sense.
* At this time good feelings corresponded with truth for me*
That's... awful. A junky or an alcoholic uses the same logic.
*It is foolish to think that feelings equate truth, but also that the creator of our senses could not use this.*
Another nonsense statement.
*There are thousand ways to Jesus and also with many different emotional experiences.*
And apparently none of them pass through truth in the way there.
* Because there is a donut there must be someone, who planned it and made it. It didn't evolved magically. From nothing. *
According to you everything got poofed out of nothing by god. You're giving me brain cancer dude.
*For you the question is not there. You see everything as pure psychology materialistic.*
Wow, you're a mind reader. You didn't even ask me what I think but you knew it all already. Guess my bank account number next.
If you want to know what I think, ask me.
* Jesus Christ, who not only with me, but with millions of other people, even if they have never heard of him before, like me, he opens his power over evil, healings and a recognition of the truth, who draws the people to him.*
More claims about something you haven't proved exists. Why do I bother?
"If you accept it as proof is subjective to you willingness.*
That makes no sense."
We are talking about the invisible reality. So some need only hearing the message and believe, other need 5 arguments to get persuaded, some 10, an other dude would be even stay sceptic if Jesus would be stand in his room next to him. Who has ears, let him hear.
"That's... awful. A junky or an alcoholic uses the same logic."
Yes, but to some degree every person on earth cling to this. Otherwise you can't survive in this world by rationalizing every thought and decision to take.
"According to you everything got poofed out of nothing by god. You're giving me brain cancer dude"
No, I only repeated your logic, that visible things are there because they evolved magically from nothing and nobody. The difference between us is "by God". And thats the analogy we see in this world. When there is something designed and created, there must be a creator and designer.
*maybe there is*
Then there would be evidence and we wouldn't have to rely on the comic book.
*ou can believe in Spider-Man, but this doesn't touch the existence or nonexistence of God and the higher position of God as powerful eternal Creator: If Spider-Man exist has no influence in my life.*
Bullshit. The medical advances alone would eclips anything seen prior in human history. That's like saying Bill Gates hasn't influenced your life.
*But if God exist and the Bible is the truth, than it will be so*
And you can't prove it.
*And that it not only a placative claim, that the bible is Gods word, is in uniqueness of the book itself: *
Never before have anthologies been written. Never before have religious texts, that steal half their stories from older religions, been written. Never have prophesies been collated together. Never had a big book of multiple choice, written from scraps of aura tradition, pilfered mysticism and other peoples legends.
Look outside your bubble dude.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible
*We are talking about the invisible reality.*
Something you need to prove. I'll wait.
*So some need only hearing the message and believe, other need 5 arguments to get persuaded, some 10, an other dude would be even stay sceptic if Jesus would be stand in his room next to him. Who has ears, let him hear. *
Why use arguments when you could use evidence. If JC did turn up in front of me then you could say for certain that a guy called Jesus Chris existed, but none of the divine elements of his story would be proved.
*yes, but to some degree every person on earth cling to this*
Like fuck we do! Name me one thing i believe that illustrates that point. If you can demonstrate I don't have a good reason to believe something then I'll stop believing it.
*Otherwise you can't survive in this world by rationalizing every thought and decision to take. *
Don't cross the street without help dude, please.
*No, I only repeated your logic, that visible things are there because they evolved magically from nothing and nobody.*
When the fuck did I say that?
*When there is something designed and created, there must be a creator and designer.*
Oh watchmaker, watchmaker, make me a fallacious reasoned position. Find me a find, catch me a fool.
I want to test something. How do you recognize design?
"When the fuck did I say that?"
it is the alternative to creation. called evolution theory.
No, that is not the theory of evolution.
You need to prove your position, not attempt to strawmsn mine.
With 2 theories in the room, through exclusion procedures you automatically get to the other one when there are gaps in one theory.
There's always only clues, arguments. Nevertheless, through his Spirit, God also gives a certainty that is greater. How should one be able to prove God at all? I did not start for that, that is not possible either. This is not even possible with earthly, visible truths, if one communicates with people who start from relative, subjective truths. Then the existence of you or me depends on personal perception and interpretation.
When does man begin to believe certain things?
Would you believe if Jesus appeared to you in a dream or before? If your relative is healed through prayer?
Can you not just prove your own case?
I don't need to prove there are an odd number of sweets to not accept your assertion there is an even number.
I don't need to prove you are innocent to not accept the assertion that you are guilty.
*With 2 theories in the room*
How did you determine there were only two?
*through exclusion procedures you automatically get to the other one when there are gaps in one theory.*
And your own theory is made up of nothing but gaps connected by "god did it".
*There's always only clues, arguments.*
No, there is evidence for evolution and no credible evidence for god.
* Nevertheless, through his Spirit, God also gives a certainty that is greater*
Before you make assertions about a thing you need to prove it exists.
*How should one be able to prove God at all?*
The bible is full of him proving his existence to random people. If he wants to show up he clearly can, so get him to do that.
*I did not start for that, that is not possible either*
So... you admit you have no way of proving the existence of god AND YOU BELIEVE ANYWAY. Why then do you have any reason to believe and how could you take issue with people disbelieving your claims one exists. How do you square that circle?
*Then the existence of you or me depends on personal perception and interpretation.*
You're talking about hard solipsism and we have no way of proving or disproving that. We are forced to set it aside until such a time when we can prove or disprove that we are in the matrix.
*When does man begin to believe certain things? *
Hopefully when there is evidence although you don't seem to be there yet.
*Would you believe if Jesus appeared to you in a dream or before*
I dreamed about Darth Vader once - does that make him real? Of JC showed up in front of me then I could say with excellent certainty that "there is a person called Jesus Christ standing in front of me."
* If your relative is healed through prayer?*
Show me one study done where prayer healing has worked.
I don't know if there are studies.
But I have a good idea. I can only point to God with all with my limited abilities and language, but you should at least try one prayer: God, when you are real. Show it to me. Show me evidence. When there is a omnipotent God, he can do it.
*I don't know if there are studies.*
Then you should go check. There are links to several here
rationalwiki.org/.../Prayer
*But I have a good idea. I can only point to God with all with my limited abilities and language, but you should at least try one prayer:*
And what makes you think that I haven't? What makes you think, in your overwhelming arrogance, that thousands, no, billions of people have not prayed and asked for confirmation, begged, pleaded and wished for an answer? And the only answer we have received is hollow silence. I've been doing what I do for a very, very long time and each time someone has said, honeyed condescension dripping from their words, "you should try just nine prayer, let your heart be sincere and true, and out your trust in god", I've done it.
And still there is nothing but silence.
* When there is a omnipotent God, he can do it.*
Are you familiar with the quote found on the walls of Auschwitz; if there is a god, he will have to beg for my forgiveness.
Your god is either a lie or so weak that every claim made about it is a lie.
Now, prove your fucking god exists in the next reply or fuck off back to your church and send me someone who can.
Partly I appreciate and like your anger, partly I see an anger, which confuses me, because "fucking god" speaks not for an honest, pragmatic or even humble approach, but bitterness and cemented standpoint.
All I can say and encourage you get to know the Jesus of the New Testament and asking yourself, what and who this guy real were. Maybe a second time.
I will pray, that God open your eyes.
"How do you recognize design?"
With my intuition and mind, seeing and thinking about it. Your eyes are so darkened, that I have real struggle to follow your thinking. The same you will think about me probably...
*Partly I appreciate and like your anger, partly I see an anger, which confuses me, because "fucking god" speaks not for an honest, pragmatic or even humble approach, but bitterness and cemented standpoint.*
I've been doing this a long time and all I get from you people is a bullshit stream of half baked do-nothing rhetoric, deepities that mean nothing and advice that I pray.
You've got nothing beyond that, if you did your present that. I'm frustrated that you're living under a belief you can't evidence and can't justify. I would say "fucking Santa " if you worshipped him.
*All I can say and encourage you get to know the Jesus of the New Testament and asking yourself, what and who this guy real were. Maybe a second time.
I will pray, that God open your eyes.*
And I will sacrifice a child so that Khorne may know your name.
Tell you what, pray to give me a Damaskas road experience like Saul got. Your god "used" to like those, but he stopped.
*"How do you recognize design?"
With my intuition and mind, seeing and thinking about it.*
Oh my fucking what? No, you recognize design by contrasting it with none design - a tree vs a stereo; a stereo is made of non naturally occurring material, it uses simple and elegant components to achieve complex things whilst the tree is messily evolved, inelegant and all natural.
Actually, how can you recognize design? You think all this was spoken into existence by a magic spell by some intelligent designer. You have no contrast point as a rock is as designed in your model as a human eye.
*Your eyes are so darkened*
You have yet to prove that.
*that I have real struggle to follow your thinking*
Yes, because you've willfully blinded yourself.
Now, I will restate my earlier message, and I want you to pay attention;
GO BACK TO YOUR CHURCH AND GET ME SOMEONE BETTER THAN YOU OR FUCK OFF.
This life is not meant to fulfill us, but there is no rest for the unjust. If good and evil is not our standard, but that of the holy, righteous God, then every person lacks glory and is tainted with guilt. If everyone is judged by the Holy Creator for his works, that would be eternal punishment.
You can deny the invisible reality and get your own pillows of rest, but it does not become fiction.
The only resting cushion that carries is the rock of Jesus Christ. The only one who was without sin died on behalf of us sinners. He is the Saviour and by believing in the Gospel, we are not blamed for our guilt.
Hope you have ears to hear and a heart that seeks the truth. God bless you.
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