Standards and morals are subjective, other individuals are not obliged to conform to religious morals. Sex and nudity are natural nothing wrong with it.
Standards and morals are not subjective. There is a wrong and there is a right. Nothing to do with religion, and nobody said anything about sex and nudity not being natural. Don't put words in people's mouths. Nobody have to confirm to what you do either. You just want be involved with people you claim you do. It's pervesed and wrong to do that to other people. Thays how you men especially up hurt and bitter with women.
Morals are subjective otherwise slavery will be legal, once wearing bikinis were obscene. Their is whole branch of philosophy called Ethics which deals with exactly that. No one was putting words in anyone's mouth, you're entitled to your opinion, and I was merely expressing mine, as I completely disagreed common sense, standards and morals being trampled. Like you said you do you, if that was true nothing was being trampled on as anyone is free to live their own life including you and me.No idea what you mean here: "You just want be involved with people you claim you do. It's pervesed and wrong to do that to other people. Thays how you men especially up hurt and bitter with women. "
@Oram52 Everyone is affected by it, including you. What you think is normal is not normal when it affects and hurts others. The problem is most people don't care who it hurts and affects until it eventually hurts and affects them. Then that is when they want to holler and scream and no one is going to listen. "Morals are subjective otherwise slavery will be legal" Morals are NOT subjective. Slavery is not moral but yet in still, we are all slaves to sin if we don't have Jesus. We are all slaves to a system that was set up down here that many are in agreement with. Your job, your school, your family, etc. "once wearing bikinis were obscene. " Bikinis are exactly what it is, bra and panties to wear to the beach for the summer. It is designed to sexualized women. Period. Hence why I would never wear it. Most women who do wear it do so to get attention from men. Rarely to get a good tan or because they are too hot during a summer day. "Their is whole branch of philosophy called Ethics which deals with exactly that." And you do realize that we are not to follow the philosophies of the world as they will find ways to corrupt moral compasses of everyone? This is not my opinion, it is a fact. This is why we have broken systems down here and people think changing up authority figures would fix them. It won't. Because people at the end of the day doesn't care. Why do you think MeToo gain a strong ground? That is a prime example of morals being compromised every single day. The problem is with you people, you only pay attention when it's a wake-up call to affect YOU in the end.
No its exactly your opinion NOT your fact. We are NOT slave to sins if we don't accept Jesus. One many religions exist, secondly there might not have been someone named Jesus. Thirdly not everyone believes in superstition. Again there is NO such thing as sexualization, its natural. If that was the case even women fully covered are found attractive. Its only traditional religious view point that makes something natural as nudity and sex as obscene or dirty. Before Christianity and Islam many cultures had positive views towards sex and nudity. Bible has a lot of unsavoury stuff which thankfully we don't follow. Philosophy means trying to use rationality to discern right and wrong, moral philosophy or ethics in this case. We are under no obligation to follow any religious doctrine, Christianity morals are by no means any superior not anyone obligated to follow such things. No one is harming anyone, laws exist to prevent that. Its freedom and liberty. Secularism is there for a reason otherwise we'd still be in dark ages. Morals are indeed subjective, otherwise you'd offer more than blindly following fairy tales.
Well I am sorry to burst your bubble it's not my opinion. It's very much is a fact a lot of people just don't want to see. And yes we are slave descends especially if we don't accept Jesus. Religion have nothing to do with his being said it's just exactly what it is. Secondly you cannot go around saying might not have nothing when it simply the fact of your False Consensus bias because you don't want to believe that Jesus existed. And he's very much is alive today. And no I have nothing to do with Superstition. It is what it is. Whether you choose to believe in it or not is irrelevant. What matters is that you are knowledgeable and understanding it.And yes it is such thing as cephalization. That's not what's natural. God had made a sexual beings yes. But has everything to do with the fact of what you choose to do with it. And when you sexualize somebody you are not only directing your desires out them, you're potentially hurting them. Is that person said they don't like it, and you still do it, then you are guilty of what you chose to do. That can be considered a crime. Has nothing to do with traditional religious views. It is what it is. And no, nudity is natural, sex is natural. But when you doing things that is beyond human mean then that is not only abnormal, it is dirty. And first of all no. Nobody had positive views about sex and nudity. You are either being animalistic with it, or you weren't. Every society understood what the boundaries were. But many Pagan belief systems did what they wanted they didn't care who is abused or hurt.Again no. The Bible talks about our history that have nothing to do about what is unsavory. We have our textbooks that talks about our unsavory history, yet we follow it. And philosophy does not mean trying to rationally to discern right from wrong. Philosophies are just that, ways of beliefs. It has no to do with it.
You realize that you are following religious Doctrine every single day of your life. It may not be what you think is religious but it's still none the less religious anyway. There is no such thing as Christianity morals. Morals are morals. God is the one that is in control. But you don't have to follow it. But you would just be punished by those things that are according to his law.The Lord exists to actually be broken. It's not living, and it's not Freedom. Hence why your Liberty and freedom is being taken away every single day if you actually pay attention to the news. Secularism is not there for a reason. Secularism is there to deter people for the things that are good. Is not subjective, it's not blindly following Fairy Tail. You ought to learn to heed what life has to offer or you don't. And when you don't there are consequences. This is why we get sick, why people go to jail, this is why some people end up dead, this is why a lot of people end up unhappy. It is what it is. What you're basically saying is that you are a lawless man, and you don't believe there's any such thing as actual real punishment. You cannot say that laws exist to prevent things, but meanwhile you do the very thing that hurts others and not give a damn either? So either you're not thinking about the things that you're actually saying or you're actually being a hypocrite. One or the other. Everything that the word of God teaches us is right there being revealed right in front of us every single day. It's up to you to pay attention. But don't pay attention, then you can't complain about why things are being done the way it's done. Because sooner or later we are going to have a one-world religion, and it's happening faster than you think. And the thing is you are the comply or you're going to die. Because guess what? The very people that you trust more than you trust the Lord, are very people that's going to implement it and you're going to be the fool to believe it.
People like you are just helping to speed up the process.
Such things as sexualization*
Women and men covered are attractive. The fact that you think nobody isn't attractive, says a lot about you as a person. Can't go around talking about morals when you hypocritically start talkin about what shouldn't be attractive according to you. Covering yourself up and not sexualizing other people it's out of love and out of respect. Not to change or shame someone's sexuality. But to protect your eyes, and to protect the innocent eyes of others. Not to have perverse thoughts, because you might as well make rape legal. Think long and hard about the things your saying.
You all are grown man, you are not a child. It is expected that a child doesn't know better. But a grown man is. God created sex, he created us, and he created things in this life. No where in the Bible has he ever said that it's disgusting. But when you choose to take his gifts and you be filthy with it, and other get hurt because of your chocies, then you will be held accountable. If nobody was getting hurt, we would not be seeing people getting raped, we would not be seeing children being born out of wedlock and don't even know who the father is, we would not be seeing people getting abused, divorce rate so high, so many heartbroken people, Etc, all because you were abused as a gift. The water God warns of these things. So if anybody wants to listen they're smart. Anybody that turns a blind eye, can't complain when something happens. God have Eyes, and ears. He is not stupid. There is a reason why those Nations got destroyed and God allow those Nations to be lost to history. We of the modern age is sadly not too far off. And there was a good reason why he says my people perish for the lack of knowledge. This world is perishing right before your eyes because people like you refuse to listen. And poor innocent children have to be born into this world that didn't ask to be born, can't even get a good chance at life because this world is already polluted and toxic. Say what you will but I refuse to be blind to reality.
The law exist to actually be broken*
You just went on a rant? Nothing. Just same thing god god god blindly follow blah blah. Literally just gibberish. If you had something to contribute you'd specifically mention that instead of glossing over and trying to shout over. You'd be able to provide actual reasoning without us having to blindly follow fairy tales. Instead of just shouting through paragraphs after paragraphs if you had something to actually contribute, you'd provide specific examples and actually provide alternative reasonign to points raised, without just spamming.Something that doesn't exist why would that need to be followed? We have not broken anything, it doesn't exist to begin with. That's my point its your narrative, which you are absolutely free to follow, but it NOT universal. Even Christianity has different factions like Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox etc, who contradict each other. If the law was "divine" why the disagreements? These are your morals which you are free to live by in a free society. But its NOT common sense, these are your standards and morals and that's it, they have no inherent universal value to everyone. Sex and nudity are natural, and everyone is free to follow whatever standards or morals they want to abide by.
Look, I don't care what your childish reasoning is. You obviously have some pent up issues for you to still be replying back with your nonsense. After reading your other replies and main opinion, you are just biased who is upset many are not falling your your mindset. And no, these nothing to do with MY morals. Or my standards, or beliefs. We would not have certain laws in place if that is the case. It is common sense, you just like it to be where you don't feel guilty for doing wrong. I am pretty sure others told you the same. So you are not fooling anyone here. Nobody here is spamming anything. People like you just refuse to listen to anything because you don't want to listen. So once again if you don't like what I have to say please butt out.
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9/10 answer. I would only add the fact that not all "inequality" means oppression or unfairness but can be merely expression of aggregate freedom of choice. If women work less hours, maybe they just want that. And what's wrong with doing exactly what you want?
@genericname85 because what is “inequality” is so amorphous, shifting and selfish to feminists they never have a straight answer for anything. Back in the 70s and 80s there was a widespread push by feminists to ban pornography. Then in the 90s and onward some of embraced porn as an “expression of their sexuality”. This is likely due to the fact is more women look at porn than they like to admit. Also some of these porn models want someone telling them that their dirty occupation is “okay”. Bottom line is women can’t understand (nor get along with each other) than how can they expect men to understand them? I pretty much ignore every gripe they nowadays. It constantly shifts because it’s “their truth”.
@bluetoblack99 yes i agree. the term is just always loaded with normative nonsense.it's funny you mention pronography, cause i just handed in a research paper on the impact of pornography on couple relationships. there's a big bias even in certain scientific areas (specially feminist litterature), when really we do not have evidence for a negative impact of pornography on pretty much anything.it's not just women. a vast marjority of people falls for emotional vague unspecific nonsense. that's what politicians use to their advantage all the time to use a lot of words to say nothing and let the people interpret whatever they want.
@genericname85 when people start ignoring facts and all rationale is when we head into dangerous territory. This has been getting worse and worse since the Obama administration. Now people openly want communism despite the fact that a central planned economy has always failed and resulted in mass murder every time it has been attempted (especially to a large population). Women don’t know what they want and men don’t know what to give them. What make one woman happy will make another one miserable. It’s problem I have with identity politics. It’s ultimately very self defeating.
@bluetoblack99 communism fails at corruption. humans are corrupt. communism is optimal "in theory" but in practice, the human kind is just not "good" enough for it. we don't need to try this experiment again, i don't understand how people can believe that it works after it failed so many times... that's the only reason that we still have this crutch called pairlamentary democracy... to limit the potential for corruption. and even with that controll mechanism, government often fails as is clearly visible with this corona bullshit that's going on everywhere.it is often true that women don't know what they want but i think blaming them, resenting or antagonizing them for that is not the right way to solve that issue. it's not an issue only women have. men also. we generally "as humans" often strive for the ideals and concepts of "success" of others, while not realizing that it doesn't make "us" happy at all.
@genericname85 I agree that being misogynistic never accomplishes anything. But honestly where do men get to draw the line? When you get guys like Brett Kavanaugh who got blindsided by a virtually groundless claim about an incident who happened over 30 years ago... really at what point do fight back at this bullshit? And HOW do we fight back?
@bluetoblack99 yeah the sexaull assault accusations are a big issue. i have no solution. same problem with men caring for children automatically getting pedophilia suspicions from people. it's really not good.
Have you seen Adele having to pay her now ex husband millions because she decided to divorce him? That's what they wanted, equal rights, right? Women, especially feminists were extremely triggered.
I agree with everything you said here except "women." I'd swap that out for "feminists." Not all women are feminists; the most useless people in society. (I know; I'm commiting a MGTOW sin for mentioning NAWALT.) Other than that, you're absolutely right. Men suffer 9 times greater in almost ALL aspects of society, and yet middle-class, first-world, college-educated, gainfully-employed, left-leaning white women are the ones who bitch the most.Here's a mega-sources sheet detailing everything feminists are wrong about and whine about:http://bit.ly/1Gq5h5v
@MCheetah I really tried to emphasize the part where I wrote "Majority of women" because I know all women aren't the same and some of them are quite skillful and productive in various areas. Just isn't my experience with the majority. I'm not MGTOW, and definitely not anti-feminist from my own perspective, but I do have a lot of disdain towards the modern feminist establishment and believe they are doing more harm than good - they are a business now, and keeping feminism alive is their primary function because that's what allows them to make money.
Oh feminism has never been good, aside from second-wave, so it's perfectly fine to be anti-feminist. The first feminists, Susan B Anthony, Millcent Fawcett, and all the other Seneca Falls harpies were true Karens of their time. The precursors to the Hillarys and AOCs of the world. Feminists have almost NEVER stood up for actual women (most of whom despise feminist ideology and don't actually loathe men), and its almost ALWAYS been about political power, just as much in 1848 as it is today.As much as I agree with you about how the small majority of women; maybe 51-55% of them, are probably as you say, I still try to remember that men, for the most part, are only barely just smarter than women and that most HUMANS in general, are kinda sh*t. I'm not bigoted against women because I think most men and women on the planet, for the most part, are pretty awful. Find me someone who isn't selfish and self-serving 99% of the time and you'll have gained a new friend for me.
@MCheetah I really can't disagree with anything you've said. Especially the part about the human race. I've made my fair share of opinions on the human race. We are most certainly the trailer trash of the galaxy at best and we even have a yard full of debris (orbital junk) ironically equal to a trailer in the hills with a broken down pickup truk among other random discarded garbage on the overgrown lawn. That's the human race, with a racist, bigoted, backwards thinking, greedy, and violent proverbial idiot inside the trailer. I've appealed to peoples humanity so many times and the response is always violence, ignorance, or heads in the sand. I rarely find a human with true vision.
Yeah, I just hope we survive long enough to get a colony to Mars because we are FUBAR at long-term survival if we don't. I'm pretty sure if we make it that far, the Martians will be the only ones who survive into the next 200 years.
@MCheetah I'm not sure that Mars is the answer - best models show that capitalism will integrate with the mission via investment, which means more of the same there.
I cannot help but downvote such a narcissistic person as you are.Just tell me one thing. How many women priests are there in our retrograde Western civilization and the Catholic church?I guess that women made it illegal for them to become priests, right? Think before you open this hole in the middle of your face to speak garbage...
@SueShe woman are some of the most fanatical religious people. It was men through the enlightenment that brought down the power of the church it was men who built America and it is men who build civilization. Women have only destroyed it in the last century since taking power and have ruined everything they touched. The nuclear family is gone. Feminism has given women power to destroy families with divorce and an easy way to steal a man's wealth. Relationships are ruined. Feminism has created an environment with #metoo where men can no longer trust women when her word alone can ruin our lives. Feminism has ruined popular media as women have invaded our popular culture and injected their toxic ideology into them such as star wars, doctor who etc...Yeah it should be illegal to let you cunts in any position of power given how much you will ruin and destroy everything we built. Giving you rights was the biggest mistake in human history.
Yes the women who set up onlyfans and porn are consenting to being sexualized and they are allowing it. An innocent girl wearing shorts just because it's warm doesn't deserve that treatment in the slightest. And what do you mean many if not all? Maybe 30% of my friends actually post revealing photos and I've never met a prostitute or stripper in my life. Maybe fact check that.
Everything in moderation tho.I’m not saying a woman has to be completely covered up.That’s extreme.Especially on hot days.In this case, if say a woman is wearing shorts and they are SO SHORT that he ass cheeks are showing? Then yes. That’s too much.You have to ask yourself the question, “would this make me look like a slut?”And I feel like a lot of women forget to ask themselves that question.Clothing companies do not only make shorts and other articles of clothing that are revealing.However, companies that do make clothes like that, make them because there is a market in that.If all women decided to one day boycott and stop wearing revealing clothing? Companies would stop making clothes like that, and also. There would be a decrease in sexual assault.
Because as much as women HATE to admit it.If women stop showing off in a way where the bottom of their asses are hanging out of their shorts and their boobs are practically hanging out of their tops.It would GREATLY decrease the likelihood of perverted men from sexually assaulting them.
It’s as if these days, the art of seduction and teasing. Which is common place from the bedroom with the invention and purpose of lingerie...Has blended with everyday clothing.And that, is the fucken problem.Some girls call revealing, everyday clothing as “cute” no. It’s not “cute” that type of clothing is what MEN call “sexy”The same way they call a piece of lingerie sexy.So women need to wake up, and stop trying to blend attributes from clothing that serve different purposes
I also like how you downvoted me, OP, but couldn't offer any kind of counter-argument or start a discussion. Not too surprising.
Women are in full control they can do whatever. Fashion industry is run by women.
@Oram52 lmao! Girls run the fashion industry, so they run the entire world! Hate to break it to you, but Zoolander was fiction
It was in context to question, men have "set the platform" - NO they haven't. Its biology. In terms of running the world men don't, few men do, and women have made many strives even in developing world. In terms of Western World women enjoy equal rights. Support for feminism stands at measly 30% in America.
@Oram52 yes, men do set the platform. They produce porn, own strip clubs, run the entertainment industry, run media in generalMen don't control most industries? Lol. Actually, they control all industries except domestic ones like nursing, fashion, etc. Please don't get all "poor men" on me. Won't work w someone educated
No its just pathetic feminist victomhood. Apparently one of the most equal societies you're being "oppressed". If you were so educated you wouldn't blindly spew feminist idiocy, like I said support for feminism measly 30%. "hey produce porn, own strip clubs, run the entertainment industry, run media in general"No large swath of entertainment and media is run by women, and more and more women are taking up top positions. Its nothing to do with men its women who drop out of the race to raise children. Hence one of the reasons for myth of gender pay gap.In terms of porn and strip clubs, its biological. Its women who attract and men pursue. That's why erotic magazines are mainly focused on men, while women read romance novels. If you look at my replies below I go in more detail, if you want I can copy/paste here."Men don't control most industries? Lol. Actually, they control all industries except domestic ones like nursing, fashion, etc. "You want to see control try spend some time in developing world, see your victoomhood then. Spend some time in Russia, Saudi Arabia, Colombia, India etc and then come back to me about control.Men control most industries because men apply for those jobs, men also get STEM degrees, Economics & Finance degrees. Women also drop out of work to raise kids, 10 years is long time when even more women have entered workforce. Men work 60-80 hours to get to those top jobs. Things are changing though, more and more women entering politics, more women in finance. Its mainly STEM fields men dominant, women stop taking crap like gender studies and women can too dominant STEM fields.
How exactly are you victimized in one of the most equal countries in the world? Are you losing half of your possessions because your partner deciding she wants divorce, 70% of divorces filed by women? Or not seeing your kids after divorce despite paying child support? In terms of gender discrepancies there are some for both men and women. However overall Western countries are one of most gender equal countries in the world, women having all the opportunities to succeed. If you narrow it down to 18-35 age demographic differences are reduced even further.There is a reason feminism is taking its last breath, if it wasn't for leftwing identity politics feminism would have no influence at all.
@Oram52 actually, you're the one who sounds victimized. Trying to make women look like we control everything and we are monsters who behead men.I simply made a statement on how both sexes are responsible for sexploitation, which is completely true, then you come and point the finger... no it's women, it's women, it's women... and I'm sure it's women who are behind famed sexists like Dan blazerio, creators of "pick up artist" groups and max Tucker... yeah right
There is NO sexploitation. Its merely feminist narrative. Radical feminists are normal one of the reasons feminism fell out of favour. There are plenty of misandrist women you can see plenty of youtube videos. But you wouldn't point to few bad apples and say all women are bad. Few PUAs doesn't mean there is some sort of epidemic of such behaviour.My exact point was their is no female oppression, that system is oppressing women. We live in one of the most gender equal countries in the world, sure there are problems that need to be resolved and that's in both genders. That is social issue not feminist one, and few social issues related to gender doesn't mean their is oppressive system in place.Women earn 55% of degrees, which would not have been possible if their was sexism or discrimination. However the degrees they earn are mostly in Humanities and Sociology, which only leads to women dominating certain fields. If they studied Mathematics, Economics, Engineering etc they would dominate those fields too.If you ask women in 40s or 50s who actually had to suffer sexism they'd tell you things have drastically changed, women have all the opportunities available to them. Its women who drop out to raise kids or earn degrees that lead to different paths. Many companies specifically allocate vacancies for women to fill.If their was so called "sexploitation" or if women were oppressed feminism wouldn't be taking its last breaths. If their was rampant sexism support for feminism wouldn't be 30% and declining. There is a reason feminism today is irrelevant!!
@Oram52 why did you get off track with the question? The question is about sexploitation, and all you want to do is talk about other issues like workplace and school.You are driving away from the argument bc you know it's true. Women are FAR more objectified than men. FAR MoRE! And it's obvious by how many female strip clubs there are per male ones. In fact, I think there are only 2 male ones in the whole country... and you are trying to say women own these clubs, not men LMAO so false!!And even if women did run them, it doesn't make it okay.Funny how you didn't bother commenting on Max Tucker and his heavy influencing of men on supporting rape culture. You'd rather just continue attacking females
The question was about gender equality, and there is NO such thing as "objectification", its called BIOLOGY. There are for more strip clubs because there is *NO* demand for male strip clubs, yet you'd find gay men visiting them. I said many women run BROTHELS. Not strip clubs, ie Madams. Read romance novels you'd find rape culture. She is kidnapped, he forces himself on her, she resists, pleads stop, he rapes her but she secretly enjoys it. This is actually plot of romance novels. No one is defending rape here, but just because there are few ignorant people doesn't mean all men trying to improve themselves with women are same. Max Tucker doesn't represent every man. His views don't reflect all men, feminism is far more radical. That "objectification" is also what women gives all the power in dating and sex. Its simply biology, women attract men pursue. Its literally impossible to have any sexual contact without so called "objectification", both genders do it, its natural. Survival of our species depends on it.There is NO such thing as objectification, its just feminist pseudo-intellectual bullshit, along with things like male gaze, mansplaining, gender neutrality etc. Its had absolutely no impact, women love attention its natural, men love giving attention its natural. For past 5 decades or so feminists have been decrying "objectification" but nothing has changed AT ALL, because its called instincts. Our instincts will override feminist pseudo-intellectualism. Just go to a good bar or club, or just check out instagram.
@Oram52 biology did not create a platform for objectification. Social media is a man made creationWhich romance novels normalize rape?So, you are saying there is no such thing as objectification because women like being objectified. Really? Because most women don't feel the need to dress like sluts on the way to work. Most women don't read playboy or porn magazines--, men do. This objectification turns on women as it causes girls to believe if they don't look like that or sexualize themselves, they have no value to men. It causes diseases like anorexia. So your "biology" is bullshit. Men's magazines, like Maxim, sexualize and objectify women. Women's magazines do not. So it sounds more like men love objectifying women. So take your bigot views and shove them up your ass
@Oram52 and let's look and see more of your immature view of how "women like to be objectified." If this is true how come women complain that men only want to fuck them. How come they complain that a guy is starting at their tits. How come they hate cat calls?and you know what happens to women that do buy into objectification? Strippers end up with drug problems, they end up single moms, and by the time they're older they're left with no job and poverty. That's how great your "objectivity" is
"So, you are saying there is no such thing as objectification because women like being objectified. "I am saying there is NO such thing as "objectification" because women like attention, its natural. There is a difference between admiring opposite sex, and catcalling or being creepy. Two distinct behaviours. Objectification is something feminists conjured up. Which has had no impact like I mentioned clubs and instagram. Women vying for attention, even dating apps like tinders it turns out many women are there just for attention. "if they don't look like that or sexualize themselves, they have no value to men."No it turns them on because its natural. That's how biology works Women attract and men pursue. Sex and nudity are natural. Its natural instinct for women to desire attention from men, more men they attract more options they have, more selective they can be. Its called natural selection. Mens magazines simply display hot women. Again this pseudo-intellectualism of objectification is feminist perspective. Men finding other women sexually desirable is innate and natural. Men like viewing images of women, women like reading romance novels. Women "objectify" men while reading those romance novels.I don't have exact names of these romance novels but yes those rape plots literally do exist, and much more. You'll be surprised how anti-feminist these romance novels get. I would've though its something you'd be well aware off. Like I mentioned above this feminist BS about objectification I've replied below if you want I can copy/paste here.
"If this is true how come women complain that men only want to fuck them. How come they complain that a guy is starting at their tits. How come they hate cat calls?"They don't, sexual liberation was a thing. Women enjoy sex as much as men now. Women also just want to fuck men. Its odd on one had feminists have this pseudo-intelelctualism of "objectification" yet at the same time have slut walks. There is also sex positive feminism by the way.Staring at tits is creepy, but if she finds him sexually attractive or its her partner she is more than happy her tits being started at. Cat calls again is creepy, there is stark difference between flirting or compliments which women love and cat calling. Two distinct things."Strippers end up with drug problems, they end up single moms, and by the time they're older they're left with no job "Its a myth. As sex is or was viewed negatively by sections of society these myths were conjured up. Sure proportion of women on drugs would've been hire because they could make quick money through stripping for their drug habit. But that's not majority of strippers. Go to any high end club and see how prevalent drugs are. If I remember correctly nearly 35% of club goers had tried drugs. Vast majority of single mums are just your average women, who got divorced then regret it. Poverty? Strippers made good money. There is no objectification. Women have autonomy over their own bodies and how they decide to use them. In 21st century we are not hung up on negative narrow views of sex and nudity. So there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a stripper. This negative perspective of sex and nudity in guise of "objectification" again is feminist perspective, and there are also sex positive feminists. Vast majority of women do not adhere to pseudo-intellectualism of objectification, I mean just look around? Like I said you can read my replies below to someone else below, otherwise I can definitely copy/paste here.
@Oram52 women don't complain that men just want them for sex? LMAO! Why are you so delusional? Are you getting all your information off of pornos?"I like being used for sex," said no woman ever.You also don't know the strip club scene at all. I have friends who have danced at high-end clubs. It's the same exact thing. Drug addicts, single moms, mentally ill girls. They are objectified, even if they are objectifying themselves, they are still up testified. And the platform is set up by men. And just because these girls are objectified themselves, doesn't mean they represent every girl and we all want to be objectified. Strippers represent an extremely small percent of women. You say romance novels objectify men? Lol another delusion. Men aren't sex objects in romance novels. They are love interests and heroes. That is not objectification. And for you to think objectification doesn't exist is absurd. Like I said, stop getting all your info off of porn.So, most single moms are that way bc they wanted a divorce? LOL no, they are single moms bc the guy ditched them since he didn't want the kid.Stop copying/pasting everything you read from the men's rights association and hating on women and wake the fuck up
The fact you have added nothing coherent or substantive and just insults just shows its just feminist pseudo-intellectualism. I mean you can re-read above I'll just be repeating myself, unless you don't find anything specific answered. Again "objectification" is feminist pseudo-intellectualism that doesn't begin to exist with. And apparently women are incapable of thinking for themselves because they would adhere to what feminists demand, and patriarchy is somehow forcing them. Such patronization is the reason women have abandoned feminism, merely 29% of people identify as feminists and declining. "most single moms are that way bc they wanted a divorce? LOL no, they are single moms bc the guy ditched them since he didn't want the kid."No, they are literally single mums because they got a divorce, 50% of marriages end in divorce, 70% of divorces are initiated by women. That's why majority of single mums are over 30. "men's rights association and hating on women and wake the fuck up "Feminism has become blatant misandry, the gibberish you're saying here is from whatever crap you read in feminist blogs or whatever. There is no difference between MRAs or feminists, both are disliked!
@Oram52 men don't rule the world? So what are all those humans in congress and the executive branch? Aliens?A man owns instagram. Men own strip clubs. Men run the porn industry. Those are all platforms set by men
“Creepy” means a guy has potential to rape. I don’t think guys following girls on onlyfans or even asking a Instagram model for nudes have the capacity to make that happen. Creepy is a guy following a random woman home. Creepy is a guy groping a girl at bar without invitation. Creepy is a guy making an overt sexual comment with no pretext. But creepy is NOT an unattractive guy politely saying hello to a woman. Also him asking for nudes is a bit pathetic but if she sends them than that’s consensual it cancels itself out. I’ve ever personally asked a girl for nudes but I’ve had plenty send them to me unsolicited especially when I was younger. I don’t like that if I haven’t met a girl. It’s just attention seeking behavior. The guy never gets anything real out of it anyway.
Blaming men for finding women sexy is like blaming a Lion for eating a gazelle.
There is some truth to this.
We have but not enough apparently if in 2020 I Google school girl and the first image that pops up is sexual
You do realize what an uphill battle is, right?
Yup. But that has implications in all aspects of life
It does. Yeah.
Let me approach the answer to this question a little differently and you tell me what you think.Regardless of how we got here, how do you think it can best be fixed going forward?
I honestly have no idea
So let's say that we figure out who is responsible for this. How will that help us if we don't know how to fix it?Sure, it would be great to know the perpetrators, but I am sure a lot of people helped it along and they had no idea what they were doing. That always happens with bad cultural changes. So it will be harder to blame them, because they are guilty but ignorant.But even if we could name each person responsible, and say exactly how they contributed, how would that help us now? Because it's been going on for a long time, and so whether we like it or not, it's our problem. We have to fix it for our kids.
I mean finding the root to a problem is the first step in finding a solution
Oh I see. So you aren't searching for someone to blame, you are looking for understanding so it can be fixed
Okay, well my first inclination is to note that with the rise in the sexual objectification of women has been a radical shift in sexual morality. And they basically track with each other, one to one.So as the sexual morals have changed, so too the sexualization of women has risen.Th
Yeah well society is pretty fucked up isn't it?
No freaking kidding!
So if we can't solve it on a society level problem, let's ask a potentially tougher question.What can you do, in your own life, to move the needle just a little bit away from sexualization and towards proper respect?
Stand up against it by shutting down men who sexualize me
Yep. That's a great start! What else?
that's what we are supposed to do. that's not a bad thing
Proof? Research I saw showed only 3% difference. Women doing 3% more housework, men doing 3% more work, so sort of balanced off. Its for people between the ages of 18-35, maybe different if we include all demographics. Even then I doubt it its that bad, jobs for example could be part time. In regards to degress you also need to look at type of degrees, men still opt for degrees which bring more return in investment, ie STEM degrees.
We're "pretty" equal but not entirely.
@Jamie05rhs yeah, but it's as close as any democratic state has managed throughout history, so that's not really my fight
And in some ways men are less equal than women, like in the divorce courts for instance
So taken on net we probably break even
Animals don't sexualize each oth err and they're still trucking along
@angeliquedevereux2 Animals don't sexualize each other? Lmaoooooooo! If they didn't, they'd go extinct.
I don't think Capitalism played a part. Prostitution has been around long before Capitalism was invented.
@Inbox its at the heart because its what people want and so they produce it. Yeah its in other places, just not as voluntarily typically. Though not always in America either, to be fair.
Capitalism has been around since the beginning of time almost, so certainly as long as prostitution if not longer.
@Jamie05rhs Do you know what Capitalism is? It's started only a few hundred years ago.
That's your definition. I see capitalism as including the barter system, so, from that point of view, it goes back much further.
@tiajoka I never truly understood this whole "objectifying" argument by feminists because they seem to forget that they too have standards when it comes to men. Additionally, if I'm correct, you don't want to be seen as a piece of meat, rather a human being that is totally understandable, BUT I encourage you to think in terms of a realist. The first thing men look for BEFORE even deciding to approach or date is the aesthetics of a woman - you can either accept it or continue to be against it, BUT it will not help you achieve your goals.
@Jamie05rhs Okay, that's your choice, but you're pretty much saying that a car includes horses.
@Aiko_E_Lara Nowadays, I think it's only men who are not speaking up about it. I think men are "supposed" to take the blame for pretty much everything - even when the woman is in the wrong...
Just like how you believe men don't speak up about it is also the same reason why they don't realize that they haven't been listening at all to men speaking up
Not necessarily, I've been a victim of false reporting, and normally no one listens because they don't hear at least enough of men like me because people in power, the media, politicians, etc push it down.
Then if nobody listens to men, how is it men's fault? There are even social experiments showing that women harassing and beating men up, nobody stands up for him but vice versa.
The keyword: "enough of men." My theory is that you're correct, men put up with A LOT of shit from abusive women, but it's not considered masculine to report it or we just ignore it. I've been through extreme and unbelievable experiences with women that would make Feminists think twice, but the problem is that these gender biases are deep within the brain.
The three Abrahamic religions from the deserts of the Middle East cast women as lesser.Indigenous European religions, such as witchcraft and Wodanism, give the genders equal status, while also recignising the self-evident differences.
@cth96190 Hindu scripture is also limiting the female role to an obedient daughter, housewife and mother.
"A wife, obedient to her husband, renowned, light-footed, eloquent in speech, sympathetic to the patients, attains to happiness when she lives peacefully with her husband, and nicely cooks the food highly efficacious, and grown through rain, conducive to our physical growth, brought daily in use, and relished by our ancestors. Yajur Veda Chapter XXXIII, Verse 59""Rama (addressing Bharata) said: "Do you keep your womenfolk pacified? Are they duly protected by you? I hope you do not repose excessive faith in them and do not confide your secrets to them." Valmiki Ramayana Ayodhya Kanda, 100.49""Men must make their women dependent day and night, and keep under their own control those who are attached to sensory objects. Her father guards her in childhood, her husband guards her in youth, and her sons guard her in old age. A woman is not fit for independence. Manusmriti 9.2-3"etc. etc. etc...
@cth96190 The traditional view of women in early Buddhism was that they were inferior as well.
There are statements in Buddhist scripture that appear to be misogynist, such as depicting women as obstructers of men's spiritual progress or the notion that being born female leaves one with less opportunity for spiritual progress.
In fairness, look at how many pathetic thirsty dudes line up in certain posts too. Definitely good for a laugh.
@DCooper Very true.