Was the Holocaust inevitable?

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I would like to hear your thoughts. Antisemitism was rampant at that time, and my feeling is that Hitler basically beat others, namely Stalin, to the "punch". I feel it would have happened, perhaps maybe on a smaller scale, no matter who was in charge. And yes, there is evidence that Stalin, towards the end of his life, was concocting another Jewish holocaust. What brought this up was that I'm reading a book about a guy who goes back in time to save JFK, which got me thinking about going back in time to kill Hitler, which got me thinking if it would have made a difference.

Intelligent answers only please.
Updates:
No, you idiots. I was reading a book which got me thinking about it. F***, read the goddamn question. And yes, the Soviet Union had already killed millions of dissidents, and they were as antisemitic as they come.
Warning: This evidence isn't conclusive, it's based off of memoirs and such. But it is thought-provoking. link
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Was the Holocaust inevitable?
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  • My view on it is something like this... When people talk about time travel, they always mention killing Hitler. This is a terrible idea in my mind, because had the holocaust not have happened then the world wouldn't have learned that lesson, and it would still be happening to a massive extent today. There are a few current/recent genocides, but imagine if mankind never learned the lesson of just how atrocious genocide really is? Imagine if we didn't have the international courts and agencies meant to prevent/deal with such crimes?

    I'm not saying that the Jewish Holocaust was necessarily inevitable, but if could be prevented, I believe that there would be a tremendous negative result in the present. I think that we as a species learned a tremendous lesson from such a tragedy, and in many ways, it had to happen once just so that it wouldn't continue to happen over and over again.

    The millions of lives lost by all parties involved was a tremendously expensive price to pay, but it legitimately shaped and influenced the entire future of humankind.

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    • Its funny, I was thinking the same thing. If it hadn't happened in the forties, maybe it's the fifties, or sixties, when technology is better and weapons are more advanced. And for the last time, I'm not saying I want or can or should time travel.

      Reply

    • There have been genocides before Hitler, like

      -the highly probable genocide of Indians by Muslims during the late Middle Ages

      -the genocide of native Americans by English and French settlers

      -the genocide of the Armenians by the Turks

      -the genocide of Congolese by Belgians during the 19th century

      There have been genocides after Hitler, like

      -the genocide in Algeria by the French

      -the genocide in central Africa (Ruanda) by the Tutsis

      -the genocide in Iraq by the USA

      Reply

    • And I completely acknowledge that it wasn't the only one... ("There are a few current/recent genocides...")

      My point is that in the industrial age, it was the biggest, both in magnitude and the shaping effect that it continues to have to this day and into the future. That's all I'm trying to say. The effects of the Holocaust having happened are felt nearly everyday by every first world western country, that's undeniable.

      Reply

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  • Hitler was probably one of the most dangerous criminals in history but Hitler did NOT invent antisemitism:

    -Christians were antisemitic ever since they got power under Emperor Constantine, during the 4th century. (Matt 27:25 link )

    -There have been pogroms since the Middle Ages, all over Europe (it was a cheap way for the nobles, not to pay their debts to Jewish bankers)

    -Luther was violently antisemitic: link (it's not a hasard that the 'Kristallnacht' happened on 9–10 November, his birthday )

    -Voltaire was violently antisemitic.

    -The fake 'Protocol of the Elders of Sion' originated in the 19th century link

    -In France Dreyfus was persecuted because he was a Jew. link

    -The German 'Voelkische Bewegung' ( link ) was antisemitic.

    -The middle class was antisemitic (not only in Germany), Walt Disney was : link

    Hitler did pick on Jews to gain popularity and to get their belongings too.

    He did not kill only Jews.

    He murdered millions of non-Jews: union men, 'leftists', gypsies, gays, Slavs, handicaped, POW's.



    The German population was willing: link and continued AFTER Hitler had lost power: link (the infamous 'zebra hunting' or 'hare hunting')

    After the 20,000,000 death of WW1 many people accepted the idea of inflicting violent death to masses of people.

    BUT

    There have been genocides before Hitler, like

    -the highly probable genocide of Indians by Muslims during the late Middle Ages

    -the genocide of native Americans by English and French settlers

    -the genocide of the Armenians by the Turks

    -the genocide of Congolese by Belgians during the 19th century

    There have been genocides after Hitler, like

    -the genocide in Algeria by the French

    -the genocide in central Africa (Ruanda) by the Tutsis

    -the genocide in Iraq by the USA

    Btw, that book seems pure bull manure.

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    • I did say it wasn't conclusive. I swear, none of you people bothered to read anything I wrote.

      Reply
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    • If Hitler Schicklgr?ber hadn't been the frontman, Goebels or another one would have been, the Germans and Western Europe, -even the USA- were ready to do it, the middle & lower classes accepted he idea, the upper classes needed scapegoats for the post WW1 crisis and for the crisis of the thirties.

      Hitler was just the DJ, the presentator, he didn't compose the music: link

      Reply

    • Hey, just so you know, jacques, 'gypsies' is a racial slur and most Romani I know would really rather it not be used about them. They go by Romani or Roma generally, 'travelling people' serves as well. Thanks =]

      Reply

  • I opened this thread expecting this to be a political sh*tstorm, but then I realized between the time traveling and the fact that you think Russia could've done the same things as germans did, this is obviously a troll

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  • Provide the evidence?

    Anyway, perhaps. Everything after Weimar Republic was going to be very, very extreme towards the authoritative position. Everything had to be... You couldn't observe ridiculous masturbating Weimar in all of it's anarchy and not move clearly towards the authoritative. The 1930s in Germany NEEDED an authoritative movement. Nazism was the strongest and the most popular. Everyone in Germany was an anti-Semite. Would they orchestrate an act of genocide? I'd need to know a little more about the other politicians at that time, but certainly, there would be prejudice against the jews with focus on economy. The genius of the Nazi movement, however, was one of grandeur and occultism, the notion of putting the people you didn't like away in little boxes and moving the country towards a Theosophic space-age heaven-state was quite unique to them.

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    • Thank you. And I agree about the need of an authoritative government. Hitler had the perfect storm to take power. I feel that if Hitler hadn't taken power, someone else who was charismatic might've, and since, as you said, most everyone was and anti-Semite, I feel they'd come to the resolution to use Jews as scapegoats

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    • Explain the so-called ignorance that you see.

      Reply

    • the other politicians at that time? Von Papen, von Hindenburg, Kaas brought Hitler to power. Just look it up.

      Reply

  • wait, what? you pose a purely fictional, fantasy premise involving time travel and being a history changing hero, and you expect rational replies? LOL

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    • Purely fictional, fantasy premises are used all the time in many different fields, they're called "thought experiments". Basically, it's all about removing variables and/or natural laws from the equation to get a better grasp on the heart of the matter being discussed. Philosophers, which influence nearly everything in life, use them all the time just to get down to brass tacks, and they are taken very seriously... Plato's Cave was a purely fictional, fantasy premise.

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    • You're such a f***ing moron. I never said time travel was possible or claimed we should make it possible. It was an afterthought and purely hypothetical scenario that had nothing to do with the meat of the question. Read the f***ing question you goddamn moron.

      Reply

    • Keep using big words...you're still wrong. There are much more out

      outlandish thought experiments out there that are frequently used to gain insight into the nature of things. Time travel is just a jumping off point because it easily accessible. Max Black's idea of a universe containing two identical spheres and nothing else is pretty out there. The point isn't whether or not something is POSSIBLE, it's under those circumstances, what does it mean?

      Reply

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