Right... you believe a perfect universe came from nothing at all and happened by accident. lol.
@AbleLearner When have I ever said that?
Well, if you don't believe in God , that leaves you in a position of basically believing everything happened by accident, whether you've really thought about it that way or not, I couldn't claim to know.
@AbleLearner That's a false dichotomy.In any case, I don't assert any position on the origin of the universe. I've thought about the origin of the universe a lot - but don't understand or care about TBB enough to argue in favour of it. You could disprove it tomorrow and it gets you no closer to a god being real.
The Big Bang Theory was proposed by a Christian scientist. It proves that the Universe is not self-eternal, as Einstein incorrectly thought, and therefore the Universe was Created by a pre-existing reality.That pre-existing reality must be un-caused and self-eternal and entirely self-motivated. The only thing we know of that meets that criteria would be an eternal Free Moral Agent, an actual eternal Mind. Therefore a personal God actually exists.the Big Bang does not contradict Creation. The Big Bang implies a finite beginning to Creation in this reality... by a pre-existing reality, namely God.
@AbleLearner ... And yet you claimed before that rejecting a god must therefore mean I accept TBB. So either it's a dichotomy or they're connected - make up your mind.That aside, this is just special pleading.The universe cannot be eternal (Or at least infinitely regress which I think is what you meant) but apparently a god can. For... reasons.If a god can just make no sense and infinitely regress, then I see no reason why I couldn't be equally justified in saying the universe does, too."The only thing we know of that meets that criteria would be an eternal Free Moral Agent"Then you shouldn't have had any trouble demonstrating it, if we apparently know this information about your agent.
It's been proven scientifically that no space-time continuum can ever be self-eternal. Thus the Universe cannot infinitely regress.the First Cause must be self-eternal since nothing itself has no creative power. IF the First Cause were not self-eternal, then nothing at all would ever have existed.
@AbleLearner That's just special pleading.
No, it's not. Something must be past-eternal else nothing else would exist, and we know that something past-eternal is not the Universe nor the Multiverse (Guthe et al). This was proven hundreds of years ago by Rene Descartes anyway.
@AbleLearner WTF does 'past eternal' mean. And how do we know that the universe cannot have this trait, and why a deity can.And I don't think you understand what 'proven' means.
Past Eternal means the First Cause has no beginning, it always existed, before Time itself existed, and has never changed..The Universe had a beginning, and every known Multiverse theory has a beginning.
@AbleLearner So... You're just asserting the universe had a beginning? Nothing more to it?Well colour me unconvinced.
No, the fact the Universe is past-finite has been scientifically proven repeatedly. Moreover, Guthe and his team won an award for proving no space-time continuum can be past eternal.It has been scientifically proven that all space-time continuums must have a finite beginning. Therefore something created the Universe.
@AbleLearner OK, so be it, I don't care anymore. But... Therefore it's not a supernatural claim for me to accept TBB. Which was your whole point of contention in the first place.You made an assertion about my position, both that I had one and that it must be supernatural, then proceeded to dismantle your own point by making a case for TBB without need of any supernatural element - because your argument doesn't necessitate a god. Well, the only way you shoehorn a god in is with special pleading, anyways.
But you must believe in aliens 👀👽
@The_man_whol_aughs Why 'must'?And aliens aren't a supernatural belief, depending on exactly what we're talking about.I think that the probability of life somewhere else in the universe is likely - that's not a supernatural claim.It becomes a supernatural claim when we start talking about little green men buzzing around our planet stealing cows and probing drunks.
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But you must pray over the water to bless it that makes it holy water
@teachgirsx The salt water seems to do the trick... no praying. Why pray when it works on it's own?