One person dying and another person being born in his body? When he's a good person in this world, he'll have a better life in his other life, won't he? What about the troubles he's been through in this world, the injustices he's done? Let's just say he died a good man in this world. He'll have a better life in his new life, won't he? But in this world, he will again suffer injustice or suffering. the reward or punishment here is not fair or logical. And what is God's function here?
The goal is not to get good life or even a next life, the goal of soul in dharmic faith is to be liberate from all these suffering and attain moksha which means to be completely free from both happiness and suffering, to be free from everything which is considered as temprory , maya or the great illusion, the budhist call this state as "nirvana" and bodhisatvaInfact it has nothing to with religion at all, because hinduism isn't an "-ism" and hindu actually means "people who live near sindhu river"but budhism and jainjnsm is atheist philosphy, and all of these three have almost same concept of reincarnation and liberation to attain nirvana/mokshaAnd sanatan dharm. Which is the real name of what people call hinduism has different concept god than their abhramic counter part
Forgive me if I say something wrong. isn't Buddhism the deification of the Buddha , loved and appreciated by his people? They live according to Buddha's teachings. Buddhism and Hinduism are basically polytheistic religion. I don't know about the other religion you say. Reaching nirvana? can anyone get there? I still don't understand what God's duty is. What's after Nirvana? I'm not asking for sarcasm, I'm asking because I don't understand. don't misunderstand.
I understand your little bit confused, not just you , many here thinks that both hinduism and budhism are not polytheist, but its quite different, budhist are atheist , hindus are plurastics, which means hindus acknowledge one true god who is formless and infinite yet it has many form and relation with each soul, for example a person can be a father, a brother and son at a same time from perspective of different relationships, thats how is the concept of god works in hinduism, budhists on other hand neglect god as any eternal enitity Buddhists believe that nothing is fixed or permanent and that change is always possible. The path to Enlightenment is through the practice and development of morality, meditation and wisdom.And thats the reason why hindus who belive in one single god which we call "param bhrma" means supreme soul, tolerate worship in any form bcos its a matter of personal belief,Here is this reference from gita where krishna said " Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kuntī,"
Now talking about duty of god The question is very vague , if you are think about god in abhramic terms, then its glorify god as creater and protector and the judge of this world, while concept of god in dharmic faiths doesn't personify god as some kind of entity, bcos god is associated with "zero" or shunya, which mean nothing but its is everything and infinite but complete on its own, which means its neither need ur devotion nor it is bounded by any duty, its like an ocean where all river meets, and our soul is like the droplets, indeed they have different form and might be different from each other for moment but in the end they all will meet at sea, here is a reference from an upnishad to back my claim, m giving English translation here."That is infinite, and this is infinite.The infinite proceeds from the infinite.(Then) taking the infinitude of the infinite (universe),It remains as the infinite alone."And speaking logically, no one knows what happens after nirvana or attaining moksha, bcos those who went in that state never return back to this world to tell their stories lol. Its like their conciousness submerged in "param bhrma" or supreme soul and their soul never return to suffer again in this world, like finally realising that ur not droplet but u r indeed the ocean itself. Now talking about ur question about longing for eternity , the moksha or nirvana itself means to be "free" from everything, infact all universe which exist bcos here is no conceot of universe, but multiverse, just imagine urself being in state where u see all universe, all the worlds and everything which exist. That certainely is state of moksha
What you have written is really impressive because it has illuminated my head about things that I had not heard before. The true God says that when other gods are worshiped, he is actually worshiped. That sounds like human work to me. Also, yes God must be eternal must be independent of time and space. God acknowledges the existence of other gods and shows them as minor goddesses. If there were more than one gods in the world. there would be no such thing as order. there would be chaos in the universe.
you have to admit that what you're saying is not very practical. Accept one God and worship idols? I'm trying to get to nirvana, I don't hear from those who are gone forever:) how does the public understand them? And how did God convey his commandments to the people? Or do you have a book containing the commandments of Allah? I understand if you don't want to extend it, I'm just curious.
I think i wrote 2 full extended answers and it got deleted somehow, m too lazy to wrote it again lol
I asked how these teachings were delivered to people by God. if you don't want to extend it, that's fine. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
About how they recieved those teachings from, i will try to be as neutral as possible, but if you think logically, almost all faith have same concept, in abhramic faiths, its always any messiah or prophet who recieved it from god in some secluded area , as they claim and then publish their thoughts in scripture, the first "messenger of god concept "appears in zorastranianism, where zorastras was messenger and ahur mazda was their one true god , in dharmic faith, concept of "messengsr of god" doesn't exist, but its still same too, sages medidate and recieve knowledge from, god, deities and cosmic entity beings , and also the "incarnate of gods" which they spread to masses, for example the 4 vedas are said to come from the brahmha, Note that this brhma is different from param bhrma, this bhrma is ruler of creational force of "this universe" (again hindus belive in multiverse). So if u asking how god delivered their message, then i would say there is no absolute answer for this bcos every faith argue their scriptures are true and they firmly belive in what is written in their holy books, so these r the questions that none can answer.
Now talking about dead man tell no tale, theor is actually vdry few instances of very well documented reincarnates throughout the history, its kust for research purpose of you want to search ,For some its very vague subject but u will surprise to know that its a matter of research and there are institutions who research these claims and document them. The two most famous cases are of "shanti devi" which was follower of gandhi, and the case of dalai lama,Here is more to study, (psi-encyclopedia. spr. ac. uk/articles/international-reincarnation-cases)
*"you have to admit that what you're saying is not very practical. Accept one God and worship idols? "*Its very practical, because conceopt of god is something which a normal human can't comprehend, their is sect in hindusim who doesn't worship idols, but their are sect eho worship idols, again this is misconception about hinduism that all hindus worship idols, but its actually secterian practice, The sect who doesn't worship argue that "god cannot have any form since its infinite"The idolater argues "that form of god is infinite hence no a human mind can medidate on nothingness, and they need to create their personal realization with god" For example, those want peace, they priests pray to god for peace, the soldiers pray victory in war, the craftmen for succes in their work, its like every has their own personal relationship with god in their daily lifeNow, about idolatery, i dont think humanity can be ever freed of idolatery no matter how much they deny, idolatery doesn't mean "worshiping stones or statue" but to associate god with a limited space or limited sense of presence, even calling god as "god" is a form of idolatery bcos we r trying to give name to an enity which is infinite , and then creating religion too is idolatery, bcos we trying to define an infinite enity through our religion's philosphy while we dont even know the depth of ocean of our planet earth,And then god is infinite, yet we create temple , mosque and church to associate that specific location as "place of worship"I think all of these things r idolatery bcos it try to bind infinite god in "some limited definition" to completely abolish idols, u have to create a place where " name of god""place of worship""concept of religion"doesn't exist
you're right about idolatry. but should not be worshipped with stone, so as not to restrict the concept of God. why do people make masjids? you can worship anywhere convenient. People who worship in a collective way feel very different and different. gathering thousands of people for worship increases faith. I believe he conveyed the message through the creator Prophet. and he advises people to follow his orders. That the revival is real inanmıyorum. ve I can't believe you did that. proof. As I said, This is my belief that after death, every person will receive the right of everyone, be taken to a creative account and absolute justice will be achieved.
Sorry for my English *
Well, not to extend any more, just my final thought is that i see religion as little bit history with culture and customs and little bit of guidance for humanity with moral teachings,, but not as absolute doctrine which i should follow, humas by nature are curious beings, Idolatory is just not about stone, its about the very image of god that we have in mind, , problem is that the human mind cannot stop imagining things even for 1 microsecond, when i say god allah or ishawar, the infinite form can't be form in my mind , so just the word , even for a split second our mind subconciously put an image of god not in form of a person or idol, but in form of words, u can practically try it, just say god or alla or ishwar, your mind even for split second, Will think those "letters" in spelling, and associate them with god , its just that the image as person is replaced by image as words and letters, thats why i said no matter how much a person try, he can't abolish idolatory as long as he is alive becasue human can't stop imagining things and creating form, we are just not capable of doing that.
As humans, we are not sufficient to understand something infinite, and as a result, we transform the nature of something infinite into a form in which we can understand it. Yeah, no need to extend anymore . Thank you for what you wrote.**
I agree, except for the children of God. Believing in Christ is the right way, but the teachings of Christ, the Prophet, the teachings of Christ, the son of God değil. Ki the provision of these teachings was lifted with the arrival of the Prophet Muhammad. I respect your faith.
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It depends on our belief yes , I think it's terrible to come into a world like this again and again. By the way, I don't believe in reecarnation. I can respect that.
What I can gather from the question is that you have a fairly nihilistic world view. You do you, but I don't recommend it.
I'm not a nihilist , but rather I think this world is temporary. I believe that there is an afterlife and that there should be a Supreme Court of Justice. It's a place where all the verbs we do in the world will be accounted for.
Everywhere we look in the universe, we see art. An art requires an artist. İ Respect your thoughts.
And every observers judges if the work is art or not. And those who believe it to be art have their own interpretation, which can and will deviate from the artiest's message.
I'm sorry I accidentally sent you the answer.
Do you believe in the afterlife?
In other words, when we die, we will disintegrate and be food for earthworms. We were born for this, to perish?
No, we were born because someone wanted kids. It's your choice if you want to obsess over your mortality or not and there's no reason to obsess over anything
So many creatures, systems , galaxies it can't be destroyed for nothing. Looking for a reason for this is a logic compulsion rather than an obsession. it's too bad to even think I'll be nothing. It's a pointless and hopeless life. it means not living. instead, we can get to the truth based on logic
no, it's more than an impulse to live. the soul's will to exist. this leads people to believe that there should be an afterlife. He explains that since the first civilizations, they have been buried in graves with items because they believe that they are after death.
See that's again just your mental mechanism that keeps you alive. There's no such thing as a soul. It's just a delusional concept that suggests there's something on you that will last past death, which entirely is just speaking to the part of your mental urge to stay alive.The believe that you somehow exist after death only exists, cause your mind can't cope with the knowledge of it's own inevitable end.
how can there be no soul? A piece of meat that keeps us afloat?
you know you can make muscles move using electricity right? that's the means by which our brain controlls our bodies. by means of chemical processes that send electric signals that make our body moves.that's how it works. our brain is a neural network that does all the processing and controlls our body. some subsystems within the body can function without the brain tho. like certain bacteria and cells we have in our body.
Yeah, I know a little about nerves and functions. But the brain is also a piece of meat. Some of his limbs can be powered by a machine or electricity. This does not apply to the whole body. think of the body as a robot. we can get inside the robot and control its body. But the robot can't do anything without us. like soul. You can See also https://youtu.be/7H8d4OVL_Pw
dude xD the body isn't made of "meat". of course you can't move skin with electirity. or organs or bowels. only muscles can be moved with electricity. the brain is not a muscle. the robot can't do anything without us, cause we built it and we didn't give it the instructions to do so.this entire "free will" debate is on an entirely different book. but basically there's no free will. we have 3 different cognitive instructionsets in our brains. one is "id", one is "ego" and one is "superego".those are conntected in complex ways and they do everything from thinking, to getting ideas, to just eating and letting the heart beat.a robot can do all that, if we give it the instructions to do so. robot are limited by our knowledge about how shit works not by their inherent inabilty to display behavior that we'd acknowledge as "human".
The Robot was just an example. You say there's no free will. What, our brains control us, are we puppets? Id. ego, superego, it's just a theory.
theory is the best ways of knowing shit that humanity has. don't confuse the "scientific" theory with what we informally use that word for.if you say you have a theory, what you're saying is that you're "guesstimating". achieving a "theory" in sicence goes through extensive research and has strong empirical foundations. a "theory" in science is nothing to scoff at. i mean we only have "theories" of how gravity works and yet nobody ever did just randomly fly off into space right? so they can be quite reliable.that out of the way, yes we are puppets. the "id" is the lowest level but highest priority mechanism. it steers shit like heartbeat, breathing frequency and certain reflexes. it can override the ego in certains situations. the classical example is when you put your hand on something hot, without knowing it's hot. you'll let go instantly as a reflex without consciously thinking about it.the ego is the thing that you commonly refer to as "i" and it's task is to rationalize the world around you and solve problems. "ideas" are such things that the ego is responsible for. the super ego is more for abstract normative questions. normative means everything that partains to what "should" be and what you "should" do. so moral stuff and such.it all works on a pretty simple binary mechanism that's why computers are binary. we built them very close to how we work, cause it's the only way we know.
and depending on the given circumstances you always have a certain "range" of decisions you can make but your will is not "free". it is limited by the circumstances and your ability.
You wanna know how the idea that we have a soul came about?
Yes why not?
people way back when didn't understand how air (the co2/o2 metabolism) works in our body. they only knew that breathing filled the lungs with something and once you stopped breathing, you'd die and also dead peopple didn't breathe.so they assumed there must be some occult mystical power in the air. that's what "spirit" actually means. it means "air".and then later, they developed that idea further into "life that enters the body" (soul) and ife that exits a body (ghost). of course that's all entirely nonsense as we know how that works today :D
What you said about the theory is true. What you say for free will is true (free will may be limited, but in the end we make the choice us.) I believe that the soul exists again may be nonsense to you. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
well stay curious and try to find out what it is then. cause i'm sure you're not sure and many people never dare to question their own ideas out of fear that they are wrong :D
i can only be right about "some" things by acknowledging that i've been wrong on many things in the past :D
(i can only be right about "some" things by acknowledging that i've been wrong on many things in the past )What is this mean?
I'm not afraid of the truth, and you don't believe in the afterlife? Because there's no proof of that, is there?
i don't "believe" generally. either i know, or i do not. i do not know that there is an afterlife. and all the empirical evidence that serves as a foundation for the theory of afterlife (near death experiences, soul/ghost) seems to be wrong. granted that doesn't mean afterlife is also wrong but it surely is not a strong case for it.and then independend of that, if afterlife was a thing, it would not be a pleasant place to be if we're going by christianities descriptions. the buddhist afterlife "could" be good but that's a gamble.
Alright. What does Islam think of the afterlife? did you check that? people are not stray. Everything has to have a purpose.
islam is the exact same as christianity, just that they favor a different "messiah" or in other words "a different great great grandchild of abraham. they both originally stem from the thora which was the original religion created after abrahams idea of god.in modern day, we have forgotten, that the dispute between christians and muslims only exists because of a family could not decide, which descendant should inherit the birth ride of being the tribe leader of the jewish tribe and davids kingdom, which at the time was basically taken out of power by the romans anyway xD
Definitely no. We see Jesus as a prophet, we believe in Muhammad, who came after him. Our difference from Christians is that we do not accept Jesus as the son of God. We believe in a God, and they believe in the Trinity. The Bible was falsified by humans.After downloading the Qur'an, the judgment of the Bible disappeared.
yeah "messiah" and "prophet" of the "kingdom of david". in other words he was a political leader that wanted to abolish the rule of the romans and was considered to be an insurgent traitor of the roman empire :D that's why he was nailed to the cross.he was after all, the son of Joseph, Grandson of Jakob, great grandson of Isaak and great great great grandson of Abraham himself. in those times it was cool to legitimate power by some higher power, like gods.believe it or not, people had many gods back then and they would actually threaten each other with the powers that "their" god had. Abraham just refined that idea and basically made what's equal to superman in the DC universe. an all powerful one that basically abolished the others, by just being stronger and encompassing their powers.Muhammed was greatly influenced by the legends around that god abraham made up and so he mad up his own version of god, that he was the messiah of. he saw how effective that idea was in defeating other peoples god ideas.cause gain. people used their gods to win arguments. and whoever could make up the more powerful god, won the argument.
that entire god thing was of course completely made up, just like the soul thing :D, cause that's how people dealt with "not knowing things" back then.
maybe it's too easy. look at everything in terms of substance. science is the discovery of knowledge that already exists. thousands of years ago, he is just discovering the knowledge reported in the Koran. he can't explain to me right now, of course, things like the spirit and the existence of God.
I'm sorry about my English, have you ever read the Koran? the two seas do not mix. the baby goes through 3 Dark phases in the mother's. as the universe expands, it says information that only the creator can know.
well he very simply can. they made those things up, cause nobody can proof you wrong and "having an explanation" gave you more power over people that didn't know things. so they'd worship you and follow you for being close to the source of this "devine knowlegde", which is of course just made up.sounds stupid to you i know but back then people were that stupid. and even nowadays many aren't much better. you just need to create an artificial paranoid fear and people will do what you say to avoid the thing they fear.
I recommend you to read. at that time, the people were very ignorant. they buried their daughters alive. there were very few people who could read and write. I mean, it's too logical for people to make it up
actually most people could read contrary to popular believe. however "litteracy" was defined as "ability to read and write latin" and that was only accessible to the rich and highly educated. most people however could actually read and write their local langauge.but yeah. people were ignorant. that's why they made up explanations for shit they didn't understand, that made them rationalize shit like burrying people alive... they had explanations for most things. but those explanations were made up and factually wrong as we know today :D of coures if you imagine living at the time, there's no way of knowing any better. but today, there is.
i don't speak that language.
Yess , http://www. quranmiracles. com/2011/03/chewed-lump-of-flesh/
it's not a "miracle" dude xD that's called genetics.
it's a miracle, because scientific information confirms a sacred book sent thousands of years ago.
So it's reasonable rather than fear, etc. if you read the Koran , you'll know what I mean. it contains information about psychology , physics , sociology, biology , astronomy.
that's not a "miracle". the piece of meat thing just very vaguely describes something that observably happens. and since we humans cut up animals and saw fetuses and how they develop during pregnancy even back then, it was no long shot to assume that humans work somewhat the same xD that's not a miracle at all.it's a somewhat accurate but very vague and unprecise description of what we nowadays know is correct. that's a good obversation, not a miracle xD
i'm not saying "everything" it says in the bible or quran is entirely wrong xD
look, the Bible's been tampered with. Only some verses were not touched. The Bible also reports the future of Muhammad. If you follow facts and science, I suggest you read the Koran. That's just advice. There are solutions to many social problems, from family relationships to the rights of divorced women. You don't admit it's a miracle. in such a backward society, people went around the Kaaba naked. they saw women as inferior to animals. Every tribe had idols. In such a backward society, none could convey this information except a prophet. I mean, it's impossible to make people up. people didn't know at that time that a baby grew in 3 Dark stages. You're free to think what you want. These are just to encourage you to think.
You should read the thora, cause that's where the bible and quran stole their ideas from.
What is the thora?
it's the holy book of the jewish religion. you know the religion of the actual people that entire god (yahweh) thing and davids kingdom and everything was made up for. it's a jewish religion. not a western and not an arabic one. it is specifically made for the jews. christians and muslims just copied it and of course both claim to be the only right one, when the thora was the original xD
it's not any less fictional tho.
i know the Torah, I don't know English. Look, the Torah is a falsified holy book. The creator has sent to every people a different book and a prophet. he sent down the Torah for the Jews. Actually, the Koran and the Bible are not his copies. those contains the orders of the creator. Each society has different problems, drink, adultery, etc. He gave guiding orders to his creative people to guide. It shows his Justice. Otherwise, we would not have agreed to complain and be tried for what we did not know. So the road to appeal is closed. I mean, it's not ridiculous.
falsified? xD dude. all the religious books are falsified. it's not real. that doen't mean "everything they say is wrong". most is tho. thora is litterally the original. christianity and quran are just copies. and while certainly there is some shit going on with the bible, cause translation changed it and the vatikan is basically editing out some key information, it's still just a copy of the thora, just like quran. it's theistic nonsense that people back then believed and some volks even nowadays didn't get smart still.
you know, you deny it without research, you keep saying the same thing. the Torah and the Bible were falsified. it contains inappropriate words about some prophets in the Torah. and the Bible is full of provisions that people write instead of God. it's normal that he has similar characteristics, because they were all sent by God. Keep reading what you know. Because it's a vicious circle after that. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
i think you clearly just have "your personal favourite" claiming quiran wasn't falsified when it IS LITTERALLY a copy of the things you claim are falisfied. so you're contradicting yourself to protect what you want to believe in. this is not uncommon. christians do that, muslims do that and jews also do that. i don't. i think those are all the same. don't underestimate the amount of research i have put into this. i know more about the actual history than most of the "believers".
I certainly don't underestimate you. I can't express myself well in this language. normally, it's not much different. quran was not falsified. other books were sent to a certain people and quran to all mankind. Unlike other religions, Islam offers practical solutions to problems. Quran may contain similar orders, not copies of others. That God is one, etc. I'm studying my religion even now. I didn't accept it the way I saw it from my parents. I questioned this religion. Islamic orders appeal to both the soul and the mind in accordance with Logic.
have you read the bible or the thora?
and why do you accept when people falsify the thora and the bible but you ignore people that falsify the quran, cause it has been falsified just like bible or thora.by the way: most christians also do not accept that the bible was falsified. they just ignore it just like you do.
Bible a little bit thora not.
Did you read Quran?
i read some of it. not in full. thora bible and quran are the same. just with different people being protargonist. but they're all trying to create the god delusion and they're fairly good at it.
I've downloaded the Bible and I want to read torah. All people create the concept of God for you. There is no God for you. How do you explain the formation of the world?
i don't. i simply admit, that i don't know how the world came about. cause that's the sane and rational thing to do. i prefer truth over made up information. and if i don't know the truth, that's what i'll have to stick with.
religions and it's god are just "explanations" to put the mind at ease. they don't tell the truth tho. they're just a mental placeholder till you know how it actually works. i don't need placeholders. i can accept "not knowing".
I don't like doubt. We came into this world to worship the creator. The duty of religion is to remind the creator and show us the right path. The Creator created us because he preferred our presence to our absence. and God wanted to be known.
well if you avoid doubt, you'll never properly know anything. cause only doubt can sort out such assumptions that are wrong and keep those that are not wrong.of course religion tells you not to doubt. cause if you would doubt, you'd very quickly be able to refute it, just like you said the bible and thora was.i think you're completely right in saying that the bible and thora are confirmed wrong about many things (specially the god claim) and if you're think the quran is right about that, think again.and by the way: nobody comes into this world "woshiping the creator". in fact you only start doing that once your parents raise you to do that. you'll find that societies that aren't rised with a theistic religion do not do that.the keyword is "childhood indoctrination". that's how the muslim, the jewish and the christian religion survive. indoctrinate them as long as they're young, cause psychologically you're not likely to question core values you've been taught as a child.
I have no doubt of the existence of a creator and the righteousness of my religion. other than that, I won't accept it without asking questions. I didn't learn my religion from my parents (except for a few things), and when they told me to pray, I asked why. Does the creator need our worship? does God need our fast? Then I looked it up and found out. a lot of questions like that, I'm still learning and questioning. It doesn't push me away from my religion, it increases my faith
that's exactly what i mean. it's indoctrination. not "doubting" a thing means "avoiding to find the truth about the thing".i find it really good that you're exploring and learning but if you take something for granted and not qeustion it, cause you will not accept it being wrong, chances are you'll never be right about that thing. cause what you then do is dismiss contradictory facts and focus on supporting fact, or in short: you're biased. that's why you can easily say thora and bible are wrong but you won't question the quran. that's quite cognitively inconsistent.
what you don't understand is that I'm specifically questioning the Koran. Believing that a God exists doesn't make me lose anything. On the contrary, it feels good. Being aimless scares me. I don't believe that so many beings are aimless. The perfect functioning of nature, the universe , from the respiratory system to the perfect functioning of stars. Why are the blind unconscious atoms in our bodies that don't know anything coming together to form the eye? It definitely shows me that a creator exists.