Men can orgasm from anal penetration. So pretty natural...Also I've posted a link on another comment which proves the Bible was translated wrong. Most passages about two men are actually about man and young boys. Pedophilia. Homosexuality wasn't mentioned in the Bible until about 500 years ago.
Orgasm has nothing to do with it. And no, you can't prove that. And no it was not only mentioned 500 years ago. That's nothing but lies and deception from false teachings that the Bible warns of. God is almighty and he watches over his word as we learn from Scripture. Nothing that isn't meant to be there is there, and everything that's meant to be there is there. Period.
You can prove that and people have by reading old bibles. Homosexuality wasn't mentioned in the German Bible until 1983. Prior to that the word was boy molesters. America translated the Bible for Germany because they didn't have a strong enough Christian following to pay for it. America put homosexuality in the Bible. Also consider that the word homosexual wasn't invented till 1862. You can't read the Bible on surface level. It's old and also ridiculous that you will pick and choose what to follow without ever reading into it.
"Men who lay with other men", as Corinthians put forth, is a phrase that has always been with the Bible. Homosexuality when it arrived as a term merely complimented this. Nothing you say or do will move me as much as an inch. You are the only one who desperately seeks to contort the word of God to fit your own agenda. But in the name of Jesus Christ I denounce it!
Okay learn German and find yourself an 1800s Bible and read it. 1 Corinthians uses the Greek word arsenokoitai which means boy molesters. ❤ Stop being hateful ❤
Incorrect, https://www.gotquestions.org/arsenokoitai.html"Arsenokoitai is a compound word: arseno is the word for “a male,” and koitai is the word for “mat” or “bed.” Put the two halves together, and the word means “a male bed”—that is, a person who makes use of a “male-only bed” or a “bed for males.” And, truthfully, that’s all the information we need to understand the intent of 1 Corinthians 6:9."And I'm not hateful, I'm just not partial. I follow the Bible, not myself.
Ah yes use a biblical website to get exactly the answer you want. Not bias at all
And "insight. net" isn't exactly that? The information provided is either true or untrue, that's what matters, not that it's a website, as you ought to agree with given you did the exact same thing.
Thanks for mho
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These have been proven to be mistranslated. Some on purpose. The first one is supposed to be "lies with a young boy" so it's about pedophilia.
Actually, the Hebrew word zachar simply translates to male and holds no specification towards age.I could also bring up Sodom and Gomorrah, and how God destroyed them because the men were practicing homosexuality. But you could make the argument that it was more because a group of men tried to gang rape two Angels. To which I would argue that God was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah anyways until Abraham convinced him to send those two angels to investigate Sodom and Gomorrah and to see if there's anyone there worth saving."For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural lotions for those that are contrary to nature; and men likewise give up natural relations with women and are consumed with passion for one another, men committing Shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their." Romans 1:26-27I would also bring up 1st Corinthians 6:9, as it specifically mentions homosexuality on a list of sins that can keep you from heaven. But the word for homosexuality here can also be translated as pedophilia. So that and the fact that 1st Corinthians was a letter sent to the city of Corinth in Greece, increase was a land where both homosexuality and pedophilia were quite popular oh, you could make equally strong arguments for both translations.
My take on the accuracy of the bible is that it was interpreted by human men. Men are flawed.But the best argument against all the Old Testament stuff is the New Testament which contains the teachings of Jesus. Jesus said he came to fulfill the Old Testament. He is the way, the truth and the light. He never says anything about sexuality. He only tells Mary Magdalene not to sell her body. He never says men and women must marry, as Paul does. Paul had a real problem with sex. Weird dude. He says love one another as I have loved you. The people he loved most dearly were primarily men. The Apostles, Lazarus, Mary Magdalene, his mother. Judge lest not YOU be judged. I go with Jesus and his fulfillment of the Old Testament. It's not about the old laws, it's about Jesus.
. Umm.. I don't know what the purpose of your comment "Judge lest not YOU be judged" was, and with a capitalized YOU, but you seem to be under the impression I'm casting judgment? I was clearly only talking about bible translations and answer the question that was asked. Don't really know what I did to merit that. please let's not make this an emotional thing where people being defensive and offending others. Literally the reason I even hesitated to write my post As for your reasons against the accuracy of the bible we can agree to disagree. I personally from my studies don't believe the Old Testament was done away with, Jesus like you said came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill them. The first miracle Jesus performed in public was at a wedding feast where he and his disciples attended. Paul doesn't say men and women MUST marry, but that some people it is best for them to marry lest they not fall into temptation. And Paul didn't have a problem with sex, he mentions in his letters to Corinthians that as for him, he's rather remain single so that his work for God not be distracted. (1 Cor. 7) He wasn't a weird dude and I'm sure he found women attractive, he was seriously devoted to his mission for Christ and his work with the early church. Everything that Jesus did and said like you said was him fulfilling the OT. Of course, there were certain sacrifical and ceremonial things that were done away with which is a different topic. Anyway I wasn't looking for a debate or anything but I'm happy to share my knowledge and compare with what others have come to understand.However, let's please be respectful of one another and not draw conclusions about each other. I have close friends whom this topic is very real for and controversial in the church so please refrain from assuming and saying I'm judging.
Didn't say you were judging. It is impossible to get tone in comments written. But there is a whole lot of judging in the Old Testament. A whole lot of rules. I think we have to be human. There is nothing wrong with coupling for love. It doesn't matter WHO you love, but HOW you love. The love one another as I have loved you. God made us all unique. Some of love men, some of us love women, most of us love our parents and friends. If we EXIST under the sun we are made in the image and likeness of God. That means gay, stright, bi and everything else is part of the show. The only things that are wrong are cruelty to each other. Not caring. Prejudice and hatred. That is what makes the world go round.
I mean LOVE is what makes the world go round. Caring, sharing, lending a hand.
I understand your point of view, and I respect that. The judgments that were passed in the OT, were judgments passed by God, and a lot of people have a hard time reading the Old Testament because a lot of those seem unreasonable because we cannot understand them. I've read some confusing things myself and needed to dig deeper. I'm not here to say who people can love or not, but as far as what the bible says, Old and New Testament both show evidence of God's established couple and his disapproval of same sex. Read them for yourself. All I'm saying is that Old Testament or New Testament, God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Hebrew 13:8, his principles don't change.
That judge lest not you be judged that Jesus touted says that's not true. There's nothing that jesus says about marriage. he attended one and made water into wine. The whole deal about the story of Lott and his daughters was that the people in that city did every kind of perversion possible. Not talking about perversions. Loving someone is not a perversion. Having sex with children, beating someone, killing people for pleasure or to release tension, humiliating, forcing yourself sexually on someone. Thos are the things happening in Sodom and Gomorrah. It wasn't just that men were having sex with men,
There's nothing that Jesus says about marriage?Jesus himself says in John 6:38, that he has come down from heaven to do the will of Him who sent him, God the Father. With this in mind, which I'm sure is something we both can agree with as Christians, how then do you explain that what God said concerning marriage in Genesis 2:24 is repeated again in Matthew 19: 4-6 and Mark 10:6-8 by Jesus? This is Jesus clearly speaking about marriage and quoting scripture concerning marriage as instituted by God. The bible time and time and time again in the Old and New Testament, by Jesus and by God says husband and wife or man and woman, when it talks about a marriage or romantic union. Nowhere does it say partner and partner. Why would God and/or Jesus limit us by saying man and woman if he was ok with another option? Wouldn't it be more beneficial for our understanding then to say, person and person, or lover and lover to help convey a broader message of romantic love?
Also, you started speaking about Sodom and Gomorrah, saying "it wasn't just that men were having sex with men." That's true. That's not the only exclusive reason why God destroyed the two cities, there were others as well, but why would then it be mentioned if it wasn't a problem? 1 Cor. 6:9, 1 Timothy 1:10. The Apostle Paul, devout follower of Jesus, talks again here about these things and how in the Lord's eyes they are not accepted. I don't know what your problem is with Paul, but how do you claim to believe in Jesus but not his disciples? Just to understand your position better, do you speak to me as a fellow Christian, and a believer in God? You say "God made us all unique", so I know therefore you believe in creation, yet you reject the rest of the Old Testament saying it has to many rules when Jesus himself says in Matthew 5:17 that he didn't come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it. I'm having a hard time understanding where it is you are coming from. Are you atheist? Or do you believe in God and in Jesus Christ?
Sure I believe in them. I also believe that any evil in this world is of human creation. The only "devil" is a metaphor for human evil.No devil dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Hitler wasn't a devil. He was a man. and so on... So HUMANS are allowed to be good or evil under the sun and some choose to be. As for Jesus removing "demons," I also think this a metaphor for mental and physical illnesses. Earlier people, however, didn't understand what mental and physical illnesses could do to people. So it was called "demons."Sodom and Gomorrah seemed like a darker version of Las Vegas. Though Las Vegas has some dark streaks itself. Cannot understand the appeal of the place and the addicitive gambling shit it engenders. THOUGH, there are those who can go there and leave and feel they've had "fun."!!! and don't do dark things.That didn't seem to be the case with old S&G. BUT that whole story seems to me to be a STORY. Not actual history. It's a parable. The righteous man, though he be only 1 in thousand will be protected by god. And Lot's wife, welllll, she wasn't quite righteous enough. You have to LISTEN TO GOD!!! Again, the ONLY REAL REASON for a man NOT to lie with a man in ancient times would be that there was so much infant death that childbearing was a top priority.
Those days are over. We have plenty of people on the planet. In fact, too many in many instances. We are near a tipping point. EVERYONE COULD BE GAY, and we'd still have too many people because there are always those who stray to the other side. THOSE BIs... I'm joking. I think many of the biblica proscriptions were about health and procreation because desert populations were precarious. This doesn't matter anymore. Now, it's about taking care of the people who are here, educating the next generations and making the world a stable place for everyone on the planet. There will always be some clown who's running a scam, trying to take advantage of someone else: think of all those fake phone calls threatening your bank accoutns and soc sec numbers and passwords... Liars, thieves... not satan, but might as well be..I say prayers for those so afllicted and support those I love and who seem to be good bets for new friends. The world is a big place and there's room fore veryone
Ok, at this point I believe we're just wasting each other's time here. You don't have a stable argument, you just keep changing your arguments to have something to say, but you're not even backing up your original points with anything just throwing new stuff out.I'm glad to know that you 'believe' in God, but there's a difference between believing or acknowledging God and Jesus and their existence, and believing them in faith as a follower and claiming to be a Christian. So far from your arguments I've come to understand that..1. You "go with Jesus and his fulfilment of the Old Testament" (your words)2. Yet you don't follow what the Old Testament says because it has too many rules.3. You believe in but don't follow God.4. You don't follow Paul's teachings as follower of Jesus, because you claim he is weird dude. I don't understand that one but I believe you just found your own excuse there just to not follow him because he also lays down a lot of 'rules' in the New Testament.4. Finally, YOU DON'T EVEN BELIEVE THE BIBLE IS ACCURATE.
Your very FIRST argument was that the WHOLE bible is inaccurate because "it was interpreted by human men [and] men are flawed". So if you believe the bible is inaccurate why do you believe ANYTHING the bible says. As far as you're concerned, the old testament is wrong because it was written by men, and the new testament along with everything Jesus ever said is wrong because it's written by men, yet you use and quote the bible to support your points and bring up new arguments. You're just picking and choosing what suits your needs from the bible and you continue to contradict your own stance if the bible. You're confused about what the bible even says and what it even means, yet you don't believe the book should be followed because it's inaccurate.You didn't say you were a Christian, so I understand you're most likely a skeptic. But you can't tell me the bible is inaccurate and then use the bible to support your own arguments which have been contradictory.In the end, I understand you are pro-homosexuality, and I respect your opinion, but you picked a fight you couldn't win. This whole thing wasn't even about whether homosexuality is wrong or right, it was about wether the bible says homosexuality is a sin. It was about a book I obviously read more than you, therefore I understand more than you. I don't really have time for this tbh, so please don't waste anymore of my time. 😅 If you're a skeptic of the bible that's fine, just don't try and tell me what the bible says and doesn't say when it's obvious I read it more than you.
It's plainly mistranslated in scripture 4 out of 6 times which have been proven. There's enough people in the world why is reproduction necessary?
You defend your point by insinuating the destruction of Humanity?Also, please provide your points of the mistranslation, I would be happy to look over those.
Your sources are interesting to look at, but now I have questions!If these statements are true, wouldn't the Homosexual practice be normalized, rather than frowned upon hundreds, if not thousands of years ago? I would think that if those sources are correct, Homosexuality wouldn't be seen as a wrong even in the beginning of it all.
People will believe anything they read or hear... Things like this have a way of being twisted. But as mentioned in the article homosexuality wasn't mentioned at all until 500 years ago. Not that long ago but still a long time and may generations to pass on false information.
In any case, I have read the "news", and that's that.
If men weren't supposed to have penis up butt then why feel so good Hmm hmm
What kind of logic is that. Stealing lots money from people feels good to some people, yet it isn't the right thing to do.
Stealing money isn't a natural thing...
If you can't figure out two men aren't supposed to be having sex with each other then I can't help you.
Men can orgasm from anal penetration alone... Please explain how its unnatural when there is literally pleasure spots.
I don't disagree with what you said. Too many Christians give divorce a free pass. I've even heard of people who become pastors after being divorced, and I think that's the height of hypocrisy. If you can't even keep your own family together, how can you keep a church together? ("You had ONE JOB.")
I'm not asking googles opinion in asking individual people...
first... being gay is 2 consenting adults, which is the difference between everything you named and homosexuality.. and the original (untranslated) scripture said "man shall not lay with boy" referring to pedophilia, only after translation was it changed to "man shall not lay with man" 🖤
In Corinthians 1 the original Greek word "arsenokoitai" was translated to homosexuals but it actually says "Boy molesters will not inherit the kingdom of God.”Homosexual wasn't mentioned in the German Bible until 1983 (homosexual is a word created by germans in 1862). In 1983 Biblica an American company paid for the German Bible to be translated. Then suddenly homosexual was in the Bible. Gay agenda.4 of the 6 clobber passages have been proven to be translated wrong. All were referring to pederasty, not homosexuality.
Lot also had sex with his daughters and God was chill with it. Does that mean incest is okay?
@Daedelus Lot was drunk and passed out when his daughters took advantage of him.
And God allowed it and didn't punish Lot's daughters or their descendants. I'm not arguing in favour of incest, obviously, but just because God does something doesn't necessarily mean it's intended as a standard of behaviour.
actually though interesting enough , the original (untranslated) scripture said "man shall not lay with boy" referring to pedophilia, only after translation was it changed to "man shall not lay with man" 🖤
@strawberrylipstick Who is to say which translation is more accurate?
ummm dude the original wasn't a translation, therefore it is the most accurate version in the world. which makes the version you cited the incorrect one cause it IS translated and done incorrectly. did you really need me to clarify that for you? cause seriously
I love “Teenage Bounty Hunters!”
if you call yourself a "Christian" and disagree with what I have said, you aren't a real Christian and you clearly haven't read your bible.
Leviticus 18:22, doesn't use the word homosexual, but it talks about them.
4 out of 6 passages in the Bible talking about homosexuality are actually about pedophilia and have been translated wrong..
you obviously didn't read Leviticus 18:22
You obviously didn't read the article "So we went to Leviticus 18:22 and he’s translating it for me word for word. In the English where it says “Man shall not lie with man, for it is an abomination,” the German version says “Man shall not lie with young boys as he does with a woman, for it is an abomination.” "
You are right, I didn't read your article because I as someone who speaks biblical greek disagree with his assumptions.
You can't just add a word like that and assume it is correct, also the german versions are based off of the catholic bible which is incorrect in many ways.
Oh but... "So we went to 1 Corinthians to see how they translated arsenokoitai (original Greek word) and instead of homosexuals it said, “Boy molesters will not inherit the kingdom of God.” "
I am pretty sure that they translated that incorrectly, because "child molester" is παιδοφθόρος or paidophthelos but that word ἀρσενοκοίτης or arsenokoites at its root means null, so in those verses, he is saying "those with no gender" aka homosexuals.
Where? Because the Bible has been proven to be translated incorrectly..
He said if man lays with another man like a woman it is an abomination. God intended a man to have a woman , produce kids, and stay together until death.
Originally it's said if man lays with young boys
nope, but that is worse
People have read bibles from the 1800s that say clear as day young boys not men.
You cannot put dick in infertile woman and get baby. what is your point?
What would be an example of a sin to you?
I'm just asking why people think it is one or why they believe it is
Right. And it’s not a sin. But let them know what you think a sin is so they can compare to your answer. Just one example of a sin according to you
I'm not religious so I don't think anything is a "sin"
Then it’s an irrelevant question. You don’t think anything is a sin
Good thing im not asking myself the question then ☺
Well no one thinks it’s a sin so your question is answered.
Obviously many people do... Being gay is punishable by death in 13 countries
But that’s countries where women can’t drive and other ignorant laws. In the modern world being gay isn’t a sin and isn’t breaking the law. Love is love
What countries are considered the modern world because it is still illegal to be gay in 72 countries. Plus people in "modern" countries still believe it is a sin. Unfortunately.
Canada, Ireland, Germany, France, Switzerland are countries in the modern world.I feel like you have asked this question because you want to argue with anyone who thinks homosexuality is a sin. You have admitted to being ignorant on what a sin is. I don’t get your motivation unless it’s to pick a fight.
I'm just curious if people have reasons other than "it's in the Bible" because the Bible is mistranslated. I'm not fighting or looking to fight with anyone? I also never admitted to being ignorant on what a sin is, I simply do not believe in sins because I am not religious.
My bad, sorry then. You are just curious. Thank you for promising not to argue with any of the answers. Nice to hear you are welcome to being educated and you will not try to argue or bring facts forward to prove homosexuality isn’t a sin.
I will assume you meant is a sin
What’s a sin?
You said it's nice to hear that I will not try "to prove homosexuality isn't a sin"
Yes. You will listen to people who answer that homosexuality is a sin and you will not argue with them. They can educate you as you are curious.
Or I could educate them
Educating them might look like an argument, especially if they take one side and you the other. It’s better to just hear them out and maybe your mind will change.
I'm not going to hear out someone who thinks someone is wrong for being themselves 🤷🏻♀️ I accept people have different opinions but if your opinion is homosexuality is wrong because the Bible says so then that's just stupid because its been proven time and time again that those passages in the Bible are actually talking about pedophilia and has been translated wrong either mistakenly or in some cases on purpose.
I know, I already agreed with you. But that’s where religious people are going to point to when saying it’s a sin. So if you already had knowledge of what we both know is true then why ask the question in the first place?
I literally already explained that I wanted to see if people had other reasons other than the Bible says so
Oh.. ya doubt any religious people will point to something other than the Bible
Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13.
19:19 says it’s a sin to mix fabric in clothing
19:27 says it’s a sin the trim your beard... my point is these are outdated laws
@DavidFox And eating lobster or pork. Or getting a tattoo.
Glad you agree with me
Simply a mistranslation... Meant to say “Man shall not lie with young boys as he does with a woman, for it is an abomination.” it's talking about pedophilia.
@Asker I don't think so. Pedophilia is fine and dandy.
it was about pedophilia mate... the bible never said anything about being gay until it was translated incorrectly
@strawberrylipstick Ah. Okay. So you are the be all and end all for biblical interpretation? I am surprised I've never heard of you.
i speak Italian mate. its pretty close to the original language the bible was written in. i read through that verse and its VERY clear to see it did not say anything about two men, it was about a man and a child
you can research it mate lmao , ignoring actual facts is literally just making you seem stupid lol
@strawberrylipstick You think Italian is in any way similar to Hebrew? Go away. You are too stupid to waste time on.
first off, not talkin about hebrew. second, im like 100% sure that comment came from you being defensive XD
@strawberrylipstick וְאֶ֨ת־זָכָ֔ר לֹ֥א תִשְׁכַּ֖ב מִשְׁכְּבֵ֣י אִשָּׁ֑ה תּֽוֹעֵבָ֖ה הִֽוא
i think you forgot i said "im not talking about hebrew" lmao
@strawberrylipstick "i speak Italian mate. its pretty close to the original language the bible was written in" That language is Hebrew, "mate."
you clearly aren't getting me lol. not talking about the "original" bible written by some bloke in his basement. im talking about the one based off the ACTUAL scriptures people used
@strawberrylipstick You are clearly making shit up as you go along. Bye.
mate do you have an apple product
When 1800s German bibles say "boy molesters" "men lay with young boys" then suddenly after American company Biblica translate the Bible for them in the 1980s (remember what happened in the 70s 🏳️🌈) it says with men and boy molesters have disappeared 🙊
Maybe that German was a mistranslation? I posted the original Hebrew, which is unchanged from the Masoretic an even the dead sea scrolls. It clearly says man lying with man is an abomination. Pedophile stuff is prohibited in other sections of Leviticus, along with incest and bestiality.
mate... are you seriously trying to use that hebrew "quote" as evidence.. cause run through 4 different translators it says "Vath-Zakhar Do not lie down from the layers of a woman who is abomination" and the only translation that comes up when you search it with the keyword "homosexuality" is the already translated version, the version that has been proven by actual translators to be incorrectso ehm... do you research before you try and use a quote like that XD i can feel the second-hand embarrassment 💀
Yeah im this case you cannot trust translating through the internet, gotta trust people who know the language. From what I've read in Hebrew man and young boy both translate to man if someone who was translating was not well versed in the difference it's an easy mistake
The Bible was translated wrong.
If you say so.
Can't just take it on surface level. It's been translated dozens of times. um-insight.net/.../ this is a great article about homosexuality and the Bible 😌
she's very right lol