Is Now The Time For A Third Political Party To Rise In The US?

I’m probably going to write a MyTake about the political divide in the US, but essentially the Democratic Party has moved very far left, and the Republicans span most of the spectrum.

So to me it seems like the perfect opportunity for a moderate party to come in and have some success. I wanted to see what y’all thought.
Updates:
I didn’t think I was that unclear, but I meant to ask whether or not it’s time for one of these other parties to actually have a fighting chance, rather than everyone just voting Repub or Dem.

Perhaps the better way to have asked this question is, “Should People Now Begin Voting For A Third Party Given Political Divide?”

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  • There already are, like my Libertarian Party (the largest non-R./D. party in the U. S.)
    https://www.lp.org
    the Green Party,
    http://www.gp.org/
    the Constitution Party,
    https://www.constitutionparty.com/
    the Justice Party,
    http://www.justicepartyusa.org/
    the Pirate Party,
    https://blog.pirate-party.us/

    and even the American Nazi Party,
    http://www.americannaziparty.com/
    Communist Party USA, and
    http://www.cpusa.org/
    Socialist Party USA.
    https://www.socialistpartyusa.net/

    The problem is that Americans don't vote for what they believe in. They vote for the lesser of 2 evils and repeatedly refuse to vote themselves into freedom by voting a multi-party system into existence, as does already exist in democracies across the globe. And with the "unelectable" idea floating around and voting being a self-fulfilling prophecy…

    You'd think the masses would get opt for more options when "Deep State agent & felon" Hillary Clinton (D) and "racist, hate-monger" Donald Trump (R) were the major parties' final candidates, but that wasn't the case.

    How bad must things get for the voters to actually act on their desire for more options?

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    • I didn’t think I was that unclear, but I meant to ask whether or not it’s time for one of these other parties to actually have a fighting chance, rather than everyone just voting Repub or Dem.

      Perhaps the better way to have asked this question is, “Should People Now Begin Voting For A Third Party Given Political Divide?”

    • Oops…

      Okay answering your question, I would think it's long overdue. One U. S. history Ph. D. friend of mine disagreed last time I talked to him. Apparently, the last time that happened, the Civil War erupted. I hope that's not what happens this time.

    • Gotcha. Thanks

  • I doubt it. First past the post just makes it so brutal to actually get anywhere. There needs to be a massive shift, which typically means a party splitting in two. I don't see the democrats doing that right now. TBH if Trump gets obliterated in the Mueller report (If, i'm not saying just you all wait he's an agent for putin, i'm saying IF) and if he's tossed out of the republican party and starts his own, that would …. be the sort of thing to do it.

    Whether the democrats are moving left or right (and the republicans) is … dependent on how you look at it. Being anti-trade used to be viewed as left wing. Now, who knows.

    Clearly there is and continues to be a divide between more 'liberal' and more 'left' democrats. While the AOC of the world get lots of attention (because her base loves her and the conservatives use her as a bogeyman) I think the left are going to be very disappointed. The reality is the democrat gains in congress are -not- from economic left economically disadvantaged areas, it's a big surge in liberal suburban voters. www.theatlantic.com/.../ is a good discussion. So to the dismay of the Bernie Bros and I suspect trump's base, the democrat congress will be a much more urban/suburban party then we've seen in the past, likely economically moderate while barreling forward with more liberal social positions.

    This is to me a natural response to the republicans own shift towards being more anti-immigrant … Trump doubled down on that voter base and handed the upper middle class suburbanites to the democrats, who are losing their rural influence.

    So what might a third political party look like? On economics, it could be anything, since i'd suggest there's no strongly pro market OR strong socialist party. The difference in American on left-right has become all social. I am not sure there are enough people who care deeply about … being socially moderate. So I guess a third party would likely de-emphasize social issues. I mean there -are- third parties. I guess the Bernie bros wing would be most likely to form one - one that says look, we don't need to worry about trans bathrooms, we need to focus on the working class, and all that will help everyone who is disadvantaged.

    I think it's nearly impossible that a new party based around a high dedication to civil liberty becomes a major force, because it's really only something wonkish nerds like ourselves care deeply about.

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    • I wouldn't say that the republican party isn't anti-immigrant so much as they're anti-illegal immigrant. This whole border wall fiasco is specifically about illegal immigration, not legal immigration.

      Do you think it's plausible that one of these third parties will see gains as a result of the poralization of the two parties?

    • I don't think I'd agree on that take on immigration. From a -policy- standpoint they may be sticking on that line, but the republican base increasingly views immigration in general as too high or certainly capped, where most democrats view it as a plus. That's what I read in polls anyway. Obviously i'm not living it, but a similar thing is happening in a lot of countries. The conservative party where I am was never as pro-immigrant as i'd have liked, but has drifted more towards viewing immigration as a problem, and I've stopped financially supporting them basically over the issue. Anyway that's nto the main point here…

      I mean I think in the last presidential election, you saw 'gains' certainly at the presidential level, with much higher third party voting than normal, but I don't see any opportunity to build on that and I think it primarily reflected how horribly unpopular both trump and Clinton were.

      It's brutally hard to get an actual third party up and running, and it's unstable - the system demands two parties in any given region. We've sort of had a third major party for years in Canada. For a while our conservative party split and it was forced back together, and masses of people 'strategically vote' as is, where they don't actually vote for the party they like, they vote for the party of the two in their riding that have a shot. So our third party briefly jumped to opposition status, then collapsed again as it dropped back to its normal spot.

      First past the post means you have to be able to win, or you're not a real party. Capturing 25% of the vote is meaningless.

    • You phrased a question below 'is it time to vote for a third party'.

      I've never voted for one here. It really is purely a protest vote, though with a bit of a point. A libertarian vote sends a message to the republican party, a green vote sends a message to the democrats, that they need to do more to get your vote. But that's all they do.

      Personally I have little to no hope of any party really looking like what i'd like for the next 20 years in my country. It's not a political issue, it's a cultural issue. There is not a large enough constituency for what I believe.

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What Girls Said 7

  • It may very well be.

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  • Poor Libertarian Party... always getting overlooked lol

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    • The libertarian party would be a candidate for what I’m talking about.

    • It’s wishful thinking. Do you think the general American population is willing to change “teams” that easily? They’re going to have to highjack media outlets that are too deeply invested on the two party system. I think the political culture and media has got to change before the position starts attracting reasonable candidates again.

    • The issue with the libertarian party is it gets too mixed up about what it's for and how people define "fically conservative" and "socially liberal." Seems like many so called "libertarians" are in reality just idiotic anarchists who use the name to sound smart and not much is done about it. The average libertarian I often hear seem only to care about "guns, immigration, and building highways" 1. Guns, fine, it's in the constitution, but can ya at least make sure idiots don't get a hold of them? Either that, or yah, the govt will try to take it away, so better stop acting like a baby about it or it A. won't be a right anymore and B. the gov't can easily use tech like drones to overpower guns anyways.
      2. Immigration. Well, support abortion, support adoption, make any baby legal or illegal highly taxed, and teach younger people to use condoms If immigrants, legal or illegal, are subject t these rules, there will be not near as much multiplication or desperation to come! Not hard to implement!
      3. Highways. When "libertarians" make exception for taxes/gov't when it comes to highways, you KNOW they're fakes and make the party look BEYOND stupid! But NOBODY calls these fuckers out! if people REALLY want taxes lowered, why not have the automotive industry pay for our roads? If only like 20% of that shit is accessible without THEIR shit, THEY should pay for it! Is that not simple logic?

      Fix this shit and maybe the libertarian party will get more votes!

      Stop letting it be a semi anarchy party!

  • I think the Democrats are a moderate party, it's only our country that thinks people having health care is a crazy liberal idea.

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    • Well not really, but the PEW results show that the Democratic country here has been moving further and further left over the past decade or two and the Republicans are now further left than they were, but also span most of the spectrum. So you’ll have many republicans saying they don’t care about gay marriage and things like that (moderates as opposed to the traditional conservatives) but they also want freedom of speech protected (which a growing number of democrats are arguing against). For this reason they’re trapped in the middle and dont like either party.

      I’ll have to link the polls when I write the MyTake, I don’t have them on hand.

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    • Gay rights? Those find pretty wide acceptance amongst both parties. I'm thinking of things like universal health care, "free" college, more government intervention in economy, etc. Both parties have moved left on these issues, the democrats just far more so.

    • Most people weren't backing gay marriage even ten years ago, so the Democrats have moved left on that. There are a few Democrats advocating for universal health care and free college but the moderates are in control of the party.

  • I don't know... Im not from us... But from a country with more political parties than u can count on ur fingers, people who don't know what they want, and politicians who gladly take advantage of it... Everything is chaos... And lots of Democratic principles are not respected... Ur system sound magic gor somone in my situation

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    • Two main American political parties are scarcely different at their cores., even though they profess complete opposition to eachother. Both have similar fundemental values about how the country should be governed, but democrats are more liberal, tend to evolve methods of it wheras republicans are just concervatives who constantly yammer about much more arbitrary values of the 'American Way'

      In Europe, such dualism will never work. European political tradition is more complex than that.

      Can you ever imagine some marxists ever entering the American senate, or some socialists having an actual say?

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    • England is unique in most of it's system on its own, out of the topic completely.

      England is probably the best governed state in around the world in general. You should eralise that things in a country are not solely determined by their own politics only.

    • @Darklydarkened In England, there's always been a third party "waiting in the wings" for one of the other two to screw up. Sometimes, they blow it, like the Liberal Democrats did recently, getting a measure of power, but managing to take all the blame and not achieving their goals. The DUP seem to have learned from their mistakes. (We'll support you if, and only if, you support us.)

  • It did. The independent party rose about as much as a third party can in the last election.

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  • I mean you still can vote third party if you want to throw your vote away.

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  • The Libertarian party is the only true party that cares about freedom

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What Guys Said 34

  • a 3rd, 4th, 5th, yes. i think we are starting to see the ultimate failings in efficacy of a two party system

    it's bad enough that it doesn't allow a wide range of ideas to proliferate but now we are seeing that when the two parties can't compromise it comes to a standstill

    but i think (i think) other things may be even bigger issues like campaign finance, gerrymandering, etc

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  • Not really. Minor parties tend not to do well unless an extraordinary set of events and factors are at work. The last minor party to sprint to major status was the GOP, and all that took was a massive dispute over slavery and impending civil war. Beyond that, certain factors inherent in American culture and constitutional system mitigate against it.

    First American political parties are not generally ideological, but are rather coalitions of regional, ethnic, religious, income and other groups that have come together because of a happenstance of common interests and historical accident. That is how you get a GOP that runs the philosophical spectrum from Ted Cruz to Susan Collins, and a Democratic party that runs from Elizabeth Warren to Joe Manchin.

    This is further because America's "winner take all/first past the post" electoral system reinforces this tendency. It tends to tilt the balance to parties that can cobble together the largest number of voters and thus causes the major parties to adopt popular ideas that might arise in a minor party, thereby depriving the minor party of its constituency before it can grow.

    Consequently, for example, a libertarian like Senator Rand Paul runs under the GOP banner rather than as a member of the Libertarian party as this is the most likely way to get elected. You get a different philosophical perspective, but under a recognizable label.

    Further, and most fundamentally, it is a confusion of cause and effect. The parties are the way they are because there are cultural, social, economic and - to some degree legal - predicates that make them so.

    The funniest critique of the political parties is that they represent the special interests and are somehow divorced from the people who vote for them. "The fault, dear Brutus, lies not within our stars, but within ourselves..."

    The parties are shaped and limited by the social and cultural and policy parameters of those who vote for them. What do you call a Republican Senator who calls for a 70% tax rate? A former Republican Senator.

    So a third party then is not apt to be, at a very basic level, very much different than the party or parties it is trying to supplant. Parties are the echo, not the trumpet. Barring some radical dysjunction in the continuity of the culture - see also the slavery issue above - the new party would be a simple repackaging of the parties we already have.

    This again, is not even taking account of the fact that the parties are coalitions - indeed, party discipline in Congress is well below the kind of party discipline that you see say, for example, in the British Parliament. Thus, they, as already noted, tend to absorb popular ideas before a third party can get off the ground.

    Bottom line, the parties are what the culture has made them and a third party would not alter that basic reality. An existential crisis - which we are far from - might change that, but it would hardly be worth the price.

    At most, a third party might provide catharsis for some who fancy themselves, without much evidence, independent thinkers. (As Keynes said, “Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back.") It would not change the basic immutable realities of the American people and their culture.

    Bottom line, there are no easy answers.

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    • In response to your update, same response. People are not apt to vote for ideas that run counter to their views, and the current two parties embrace a wide spectrum of views. (See also Collins to Cruz, Manchin to Warren.)

  • OF COURSE there should be a third party! That is why I'd like to announce I AM running now for pres 2020! My main goals are:

    1. Free ponies AND turtles for all! (take that vermin supreme!)
    2. Horrid people like the Kardashians and 6ix9ine will be immediately deported to the Ukraine! And I'll make Russia and North Korea pay for the flight! :D
    3. Music that's horrible like Ed Shareen will be ILLEGAL to be played publicly as to protect our eardrums and average low patience!
    4. NUDITY! We all shall not be required to clothe! GO WILD! :D
    5. High heels will be declared a "hazardous selection made by the stupid" and will be made illegal!
    6. Cigarettes are illegal and weed is LEGAL!
    LIGHT IT UP! :D
    7. IQ testing for all wanna be parents! Don't even know the capital of Sweeden? No babies for you! No more stupid people!
    Abort em or deport em. :D
    8. Russians will be given free vodka and bears in compensation for their deportation (jk)

    VOTE FOR ME IN 2020!

    *this announcement payed for by the Fuck All Political Parties Party with
    a special grant from Deez Nutz :) *

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  • I'd prefer a genuine small government party like the LP. Government's proper role is to protect people and their property, not control every aspect of life.

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    • Is it feasible that the Libertarian party can make gains in upcoming elections?

  • In theory that would be great, but in reality I doubt it would make a difference.
    I know in Europe there are at least a few countries with three or four main parties, and here in Canada we have three - Conservative, Liberal and NDP.
    The NDP is fairly successful on the municipal and provincial level, but on the federal level they tend to just swing whichever way they think will help them poach a few votes.
    And I suspect a third main party in the US would have similar results.

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  • American politics is insanely slanted to the right wing compared to most other countries. Our democrats would be a conservative party inn most countries. That stuff about democrats being far left and republicans being spread across the middle is complete nonsense

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    • Yeah, this post is gibberish. Both parties support economic liberalism and private property. This is as right-wing as it gets. Being more or less open to immigration doesn't make a party left-wing. These Americans need political education.

  • The Democrats also span a huge distance in the political field, some like Joe Manchin are extremely centrist

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    • They do, I was talking in generalities. The PEW results I'll post tonight show a trend of both parties moving left, but the democrats bubbled on the further left whereas the republicans span a greater space.

  • Yes. And a fourth party. The Democrats are beyond salvation and a more left wing Peoples Party needs to rise.

    The libertarian right needs to grow as well. By that i mean, they need to be given more speaking time during televised debates.

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  • "the Democratic Party has moved very far left"

    Thanks for the laugh! Today's Democratic Party is Reagan's Republican party.

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    • Not according to PEW, but that’s again going to be the case I have to lay out in MyTake tonight. I don’t have the citations with me at the moment and I’m playing Call Of Duty so I don’t want to go to deep down the rabbit hole.

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    • I already wrote it, but you're conflating my statement that the democrats have moved further left with a belief that they're wrong to do so. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that according to these results the Democrats have moved far further left than the Republicans have moved right. It may be the case that black people and women can't succeed in American because of a racial patriarchy, a concept I find laughably inaccurate, but my comment is only that the amount of democrats moving towards this belief are far greater than republicans. Perhaps they're right... That's not something I was addressing here though.

    • I'll take it over to your mytake, and probably repeat myself there.

  • Hillary Clinton was the moderate. You have a deep state, globalist, perpetual war, shoot anybody we don't like in the back of the head 12 times and call it a suicide, problem. You can trot of Sanders, Warren, Obama, Oprah all you want... they're the same person come brass tacks.

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  • The Democratic Party is not far left, they're actually way too centrist. It's the republicans that are far right.

    OP, I guess I like the idea, but we need a constitutional amendment to get runoff voting first. Make all voting runoff. No more first past the post.

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  • I think so, but if it ends up gaining too much power, it will replace one of the existing parties and become just as corrupt, as what happened with the Republican party against the Whigs in the 1860s. Ideally, I would like to see parties become irrelevant as George Washington wanted but don't see that happening any time soon, so can we at least have a multi party system like most European countries do?

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  • No. A third party would serve only to guarantee that the Democrats win all future elections.

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  • No... it wouldn't help anything. I've thought a lot about this; all the party would be would be basically an extension of one of the two main parties but with slightly different ideals. It wouldn't help anything. I mean you still can only vote in two ways on a bill-- either yes or no. There's no third "half-way" option.

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  • It always sounds nice, and I won't lie it would be nice to have stability but I would have to disagree, the want or need it, or both; however a strain on the mind may not be enough... I don't honestly don't know if it's time yet.

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  • No. The Libertarian party really screwed themselves with Gary Johnson.. I like most of the views (definitely limited government) but without a solid leader, it doesn't mean anything.

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  • Now is the time to abolish the ridiculous idea of political parties, and go back to individualism, open thoughts, and diverse opinions.

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  • The leadership of the dem party at still basically republicans the idea that they are to far left is bs, they need to be much farther left than they are now

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  • I really honestly don't care what political party is there or get started because somehow the message has been lost somehow along the way they forgotten that their elected officials we don't work for them they work for us and that's the problem. Everybody I don't care whether their Democratic or Republic once they get elected they no longer are looking out for the people any more somewhere along the line start looking out for themselves and completely forget about their agenda and the reason why they were elected and that's the problem. Everybody all of our Congressman need to be all fired and we need all new blood in there and we need to let them know that if you are no longer working for the people you will no longer have this job.

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  • The democratic party are liberals. Liberalism is right-wing. What do they teach you in American schools?

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    • I don’t even understand your consternation. It’s pretty well known that America essentially has a two party system. I asked if now was the perfect time for a third party to grow in popularity... I never even talked about liberals or liberalism.

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    • Show it to me now. I want to see what they masquerade as "left".

    • I’m playing COD I’ll post it tonight and link you in it.

  • Moderate, no. I’d like to see the destruction of liberalism in America.

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  • The democratic party has not moved far left the US political spectrum is skewed
    But that aside a third party really doesn't make a whole lot of sense with the electoral system the US has
    Having multiple parties makes sense in the type of representative democracy some European countries have where governments are typically run by a coalition of parties representing different spectrums of society
    But when it is this sort of winner takes all type of things as the US system is then unless it really represents an entirely new way it is only going to leech away support from one side or the other

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  • We should've always had a third (and 4th and 5th and...) political candidate available, instead of just the Demos and Repubs. But people have proven themselves too stupid or too naive to believe that another candidate (or more) besides the ones from the two major parties could have a positive influence and a chance to change things for the better and they've been too lazy to research the candidates. The last time we had a president that was neither Democrat nor Republican was in 1968. Since then, it's always been Democrat or Republican. If they were convinced that a third party was irrelevant then, why can't we make Democrats AND Republicans irrelevant NOW? Neither Pepsi nor Coke are good for us. We need water. We need to find water and ditch the sodas.

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  • i wish. the dumbocrats and repulsicans have all the money and the debates literally belong to them

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  • It has always been "the time" for a third party.

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  • No i dont think so the economy is too good.

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  • There should definitely be a Tea party party.

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  • I've been doing it for years...

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  • Likely won’t happen according to Duverger’s law.

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