Income taxes might have played a nontrivial role in both promoting women's suffrage as well as the 19th amendment in the US in 1920. If we look at income tax rates and revenue, for example, they were starting to skyrocket towards the 1920s and onward:By granting women the right to vote, the state could put an end to tax resistance among women.
So it was about money. It's always about money
I think some of it has to do with that from the POV of the state, and power, and being able to potentially being able to double the eligible citizens for various things and put a stop to the resistance. That's more a cynical view of things but I always figure the state is motivated more by those kinds of direct incentives. Whereas the suffragettes were probably motivated by double standards.
[...] and being able to potentially [double] the eligible citizens for various things [...]
I personally think women are happier and better off at home. The outside world is too cruel for most, that's why so many of them are on meds for anxiety and depression.
It's a tough one for me because I try my best to just look at individuals as much as I can. One of the brightest engineers I ever worked with was a woman, but she's no ordinary woman (all the way starting from the time she was a little girl). She's actually kind of a minor celebrity now.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeri_Ellsworth>> Ellsworth was born in Georgia and grew up in the towns of Dallas, Oregon and Yamhill, Oregon, where she was raised by her father, a local Mobil service station owner. As a child, she persuaded her father to let her use a Commodore 64 computer which had been originally purchased for her brother. She taught herself to program by reading the C64's manuals. While at high school, she drove dirt-track race cars with her father, and then began designing new models in his workshop, eventually selling her own custom race cars. This allowed her to drop out of high school to continue the business.That's not a very ordinary type of girl even back when she was a little kid. But she's making great contributions now to augmented VR. I worked with her temporarily while working in VFX (she was in a separate department but one of the brightest engineers I ever met). So I see it as a shame if those types of women, however rare, are kept at home.I'm hoping for some kind of sane middle ground emerges where we accept that men and women are not identical to each other but can recognize the radical differences from one individual to the next.
there's always exceptional people like that, and they find their way to the spotlight no matter what. I mean the average girl. They have no place in a harsh world.
Perhaps so, but if the laws and society are structured too strongly to based on the generalized differences between the sexes, then it might start to exclude some really talented individuals. To me, it's like I don't care who finds the most effective cure for cancer: male, female, any ethnicity. I just want to make sure any person truly capable of discovering such a cure is given the opportunity -- for all of our sakes. :-D
Well. There has to be a reason women have been repressed for thousands of years.
I'm a bit ruthless here though. It's like if women blame menstrual cramps for acting very poorly, then I'd see that as a legit reason to avoid hiring women who do this every month in favor of men. I don't think it's practical to expect employers to take on that burden as opposed to women to learn how to deal with it. So it's like if women want to compete alongside men, then I'm not in favor of adjusting the circumstances to make it easier for women to succeed (or men for that matter). They'll have to deal with whatever extra burdens they have to deal with. That, to me, is truly evaluating on an individual-by-individual basis with regard to who is best suited for a particular job.>> Well. There has to be a reason women have been repressed for thousands of years.There are some technological advancements though like washing machines, modern birth control that wasn't around back then. A lot of the challenges these days is navigating the technology as I see it.
My thinking though is like if we keep going the way we're going, both men and women have to become quite tough to compete in that harsh world out there. I tend to piss all sorts of people off (feminists, MRAs, etc) because I'm of the view that women can't be saying things like that they're afraid to walk the streets at night while simultaneously be considered just as tough and capable as men of fending for themselves without extra protection from society.So I'm like, "Pick one!" And I think women have to get tougher, generally speaking, if we continue moving in this direction. And I think we be tougher and hold women to the same types of standards as men.One thing I absolutely don't think is helpful is to expect men to get softer. If there's one thing thousands of years of human history has taught me is that a society filled with soft people is not likely to survive for long. At least a good half of the population has to be reasonably tough and self-sufficient.
And I think we [should] be tougher [on women] and hold women to the same types of standards as men [including how we raise them so that they can deal with it].
If they can survive in a mans world. Great. But my point is the majority can't. About 90% of the females I've worked with have had to be taken care of or receive special treatment. The only solution is to make the work force male dominant again, and have someone at home raising the children. This is best for a stable family unit.
I've found that the case somewhat in my experience too, and also female-dominated workplaces can be quite nasty from horror stories I've heard from women, including my wife -- there can be a lot more gossiping and catfighting and such. I wonder if that can be overcome to a great degree though with social conditioning.Right now I'm even worried about men in future generations. There seems to be an increasing trend towards helicopter parents, schools that give bonus points for effort, participation medals for just participating in a race, etc. None of this prepares kids of either sex for how the world actually works as I see it.So if we're going to socially condition individuals of either sex to compete in that world out there, then I think it has to favor a tougher set of values that prioritize individual responsibility and accountability and coming to terms with the unforgiving nature of the world than what we're currently favoring in lots of developed nations.
Well society's do crumble and fall apart all throughout history. In a way we're headed in that direction, and I believe all these new radical ideas will be the reason why. Too much change is happening very quickly, and we're not allowing ourselves to adapt properly.
My main concern is on the male side. I kind of let women, if they want to look at things collectively, try to figure out what sort of values they need to succeed. Yet I'd tend to think those values would be more "masculine" than usual given that masculine values were evolved to favor men being the less sheltered sex. But if men completely lose sight of the types of historical values and ideals that propelled them to success outside the home, then we're really screwed as I see it.
Women were also quite tougher though even in past generations from my experiences. They weren't necessarily the types who'd think to make cyber-bullying illegal, for example. Like my mother-in-law on the wife's side survived through WW2 and is a pretty tough woman (albeit still feminine), as well as my grandmother (now deceased) on my father's side. Both were pretty tough women. They weren't the types to be easily offended or seek out safe spaces, for example. I tell about such things to my mother-in-law and she laughs and finds it pathetic. So this kind of super-soft attitude we're seeing these days isn't necessarily reflective of even historical women as I see it.
Masculine views are no longer being promoted. We're being cast aside to allow women a place in the world. Not only that but with women being in society, no one is at home to raise the kids. I dont see this being a good thing at all.
Those were hard times where everyone needed to be strong. People were unified and had values. That's quickly going away.
I agree with that with like skyrocketing divorce rates and declining birth rates and so forth. Something has to change as I see it to avoid even practical things like an economic collapse. But I tend to favor a slightly harsher side just working from where we're at now. I think it tends to benefit both sexes to become fairly tough. It might even be more important now for everyone to develop a reasonably thick-skinned now that they can communicate with people across the world from the internet, for example. And I get a bit concerned when I see a woman thinking she can put off marriage and children way into her 30s or beyond (that's just not biologically feasible given how women's fertility rates start to decline around 30 and start plummeting at 35, and IVF can cost a fortune and only has around 20-35% success rates with diminishing returns each successive round). So I'm in favor of preparing our youth with the harsh nature of reality including biological realities.
there's so many issues its hard to address just one and say that it will fix everything. But one thing for certain is the family unit becoming a thing of the past, is deteriorating society. Without stable homes, society will slowly crumble.
Very much agreed there. It gets even more bleak because here in Japan, for example, we have declining birth rates that are projected to result in a population like this in the future:That 2050 forecast is like a doomsday scenario from an economic standpoint because there would be too many elderly and too few young ones capable of working and contributing to economic output.
I've heard of that. I wonder why that is.
Here we don't have quite the same type of feminist dynamic as in the West. At least it's not quite the same, although we have far more women working these days. But there's a lot of economic factors at play leading to a very cynical type of young generation jaded about marriage, for example as well as huge reforms to education and parenting (we've adopted the sort of participation medal mindset here, for example, and that's a fairly recent thing that didn't happen when I was a boy). It's super complicated.
That can't be good. There needs to be a steady growth rate in society or just start replacing people with AI
The worst is how it potentially cascades. As the economic output declines, the people start doing the worst things possible to get it back up, and so it declines even more, and the problem cascades. Here there's maybe more of a strong economic factor driving the declining marriage and birth rates. It's not the poorest Japanese who tend to get married with children, but the wealthier ones with very stable incomes.
A more traditional view of things is best for everyone. But people are becoming more selfish and only care about what they want. Not exactly a good outlook for the future.
That sounds a bit nationalist, which can be a bad thing. At times you have to put the state before the people. To create a thriving people and opportunities for all.
I think it's important to place some emphasis on the needs of children and families. That's not necessarily nationalistic. I think there are ways to get people to appreciate things like family values without having to think of it as an economic contribution. I just think of the economic factors as a symptom of large groups of people abandoning those values.
People just have no respect for it. Long term relationships take too much responsibility and women having more financial freedom can be more picky. Only the handsome wealthy men are getting married and having children. While men who aren't born as fortunate, have to put up with the increase flow of women in the workforce, while at the same time being ignored by them. It's a real nasty thing.
That sounds incredibly racist.
I’m not saying I disagree or anything. I’m saying these are the men they looked down upon soooo much, yet they gave them rights before their own women.. so imagine how they viewed women.
I think its more sexist than racist.
@mermaidia_lol it's a whole lot of everything
@mermaidia_lol can you believe the stuff this girl says?
Why are you always out to get me?
Do you want me to apologize?
I just wanna know why you’re so obsessed with me.. not that I blame you but, it’s mad weird big fella.
What's there to be obsessed about?
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