also i forgot to add - i think its unfair for women to have "complete" control of abortions. i think she should at least talk to the father. if the father WANTS the child, the woman should at least consider keeping the child and giving it to the father
I don't believe your arguments are appropriate for this conversation, and I'll explain why. A person should be forced to have a kid when they have had sex, and became pregnant, this baby is now your responsibility. it was your decision to participate in sexual intercourse, when unprotected, this is the consequence. I Cases of rape, it isn't your fault and I understand wanting to get rid of the baby, having thoughts that it's the person's who raped you, and you don't want to birth their child. But in respect for the fetus you should still have it, as it is still a living organism, afterwards you can put them up for adoption or whatever else you are able to do. This brings us to the next part of your response, which I disagreed with the most. Most people, have a strong relationship with their mothers, or at least care about their mothers. There is often an instant love for the child when the mother holds this new vessel of life in her hands for the first time after having it grow and leech off of them for the past 9 months. If this feeling of love doesn't kick in, adoption is indeed a suitable option. I know a family with two adopted kids. one is 16, the other is 15. My age, and good friends of mine, boy and girl, who are not natural siblings. They love their family, and they know they are adopted. It's not rare in this day and age for a family to actually love their adopted kids. As for them turning out to be bad people because they didn't receive love and affection, I think that's crazy. There are children who grow up to be currupted business men, and women, dirty cops, drug dealers, School shooters, terrorist, and other negative things, who grew up with both of their parents who wanted to have their kid, gave them all the love and affection they had, and did everything "Right".
They child should ultimately be able to grow up make it's own decisions. Humans are so resilient that even if they grow up in the worst of the worst conditions they can turn out as great human beings in the future. Part of is is because they know what it's like to work hard and to struggle. Something many rich people don't have much experience in. Which is why sometimes they don't turn out to be such great people. However many turn out as great people as well. Abortion is striping the babies of free will and the chance of life. The ability to make a name for themselves and become their own person.
Can you send me some research and information that proves this to be true?
"The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman's education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). "I don't find any of these reasons suitable to kill a child. Rason being because a person can work through all of these problems. I was raised in poverty. And many people were raised in way worse situations than myself. When my mother had my older brother she was 25, single, and didn't have much money, when she had me same thing later on at 31 years old. I remember us having to stay at one of her friends house for a long time because we were homeless. But over time my mom was able to get back on her feet and now, we live in a nice apartment, and I'm here arguing about why I think abortion is wrong. I wouldn't have that oppertunity if my mom thought, because she lacked confidence in her ability to provide, it would be better just to abort me, or my brother. People can get help for organizations, family, friends, and many other ways. People who don't even try to me are selfish, and uneducated in all the alternatives they can take. I'm a prime example that kid raised in poverty can strive and do well later in in life. And so are some of the richest most successful people in the world today, like the owner of Amazon.
That’s nice for your family but most people don’t do that. It sounds like your view is shaped by personal experience and anecdotal evidence, not research. Most people raised in unfavorable conditions do not turn out well and they stay in these cycles, which is clearly harmful to the general population.
What I'm saying is if more parents have crucial influencers, and suitable help with the raising of their children. Like my mother had with raising me and my brother, the statistic of children who don't turn out alright would be much lower. People tend to focus on the wrong issues. The issue is, parents have no role model, no reference, no help. People don't know they can even get help, they worry more that they will get their child taken away rather than being able to actually receive that help. Which is sad. If every who became pregnant knew that no matter what they would be able receive aid that would help them get on their feet, and raise a child properly, that wouldn't be an issue. Abortion isn't cheap, if we used money for abortions for training Parents, and providing families with support, or bettering the already existing child services system. Kids would be able to turn into successful adults.
To eliminate the reasons that women get abortions you need far more than that. You would have to raise the minimum wage, provide universal childcare or something like it, put billions more dollars into public education, make healthcare much less expensive than it currently is, reform the criminal justice system, make mental healthcare more accessible, make low-income housing more accessible, make birth control more accessible, convince more couples to adopt instead of using new fertility technology, fight alcohol and drug addiction nationwide, create more opportunities for disabled people, and more. This will cost trillions of dollars over time, it will take decades to implement, and abortion can’t be restricted until all these issues are addressed and any child can have a good upbringing.
I guess we better start now...
How do you expect people to pay for this and Congress to implement it? If it requires massive tax hikes and spending along with radically progressive new programs conservatives won’t go for it. If the end goal is abortion bans liberals won’t go for it. These are wildly unrealistic ideas in a country like the US and they wouldn’t be passed or probably work well enough to justify an abortion ban.
Say I have a girlfriend and she is, pregnant
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I hear a lot of women often refer to the fact that it's her "body" that is being affected by this decision. Where does that thought process exactly come from? From my understanding, if a living organisims is growing inside of you, the only physical connection to your actual body is by the umbilical cord. after that is cut during the birthing process there is no other connection except a mental connection of Mother and child. Sure the mother is affected, through throwing up, through, feeling mood swings, pain, and other things. Why do most of the women who I talk to so strongly believe that their choice in whether the organism that is growing in them gets to continue to live or not?
Why is it the woman's decision?
because she's the one giving birth (also i'm referring as like when she's single or father has already agreed)
@GreciaJackson but it's not her life, is it? Think about this, if every aborted child had the opportunity to choose wether they wanted to be aborted or not last year, how many more children would there be in the world today?
Sure the baby comes from the womans body, but it's the childs life, so the decision doesn't belong to the mother. Did you know euthanizing is illegal in the United States. Say a person is in a coma, and has been in this coma for the past four years, they show no sign of ever waking up. But because they are not in a critical condition, and if their vitals are stable. It is illegal for you to pull the plug without any form of written or documents verbal consent from the victim. The unconscious person has no say in the matter of wether they want to keep living or just end it all. So it is not legally legible fo anyone to cause them to die, because they can't handle it. Doesn't that seem selfish? Wanting to end someone else's life because you don't think you are capable of "dealing" with it. Is it fair to end someone's life. Before it even begins because you don't think you are capable with "Dealing" with it?
How so the baby is not a part of your body. When you execute an abortion, your killing the living organism that's growing inside of you not any of your own tissue, or any of your own cells. It's made up of its own, it has its own pain sensory, its own hunger, its own Thirst, its own heart beat. Its own movement its own brain. It's in your body, but not actually part of your body.
No, it is not my body. It's a parasitic creature inside my body. And I should have the basic right to get it out of my body if I don't want it - that's what bodily autonomy is
Lol, you noticed that babies are pretty much parasites too. That's funny.)That parasite grows up into a human, it's selfish to take away it's life because you can't handle 9 months. If you don't like the risks don't have premarital, or unprotected sex.
Law is not based on feelings. Something being selfish or not by someone's opinion is not a foundation to create a law. And just like you can't force someone to let live homeless people on his property you can't force a woman to have anything in her body that she doesn't want. Facts don't care about your feelings. Unwanted pregnancy occurs after protected sex just like it occurs in marriages - that's just fyi, because you obviously seem to lack knowledge in effectiveness of contraception and the fact of many people never wanting kids. But the way that someone got pregnant still doesn't take away anyone's right to bodily autonomy
I'm getting tired of saying the same things the the same type of people. You can read through the replies I've made on the other comments and you'll see these very argument I've already refuted. I don't understand how so many females believe in the atrocity that The ability to kill a child is morally, or ethically just. There are many reasons, based off of ethics alone, not based off of morals that refute why it's not reasonable to have an abortion. But then even more morals which people living today have construed so much that should be against it as well. Caring about yourself, or your own interest, more than someone else's. In this case it's selfish, because your more worried about if you can or can't care for it. And you are worried or not wether or not it's gonna ruin things that you are trying to do in life. In cases of rape, it's not the babies fault that you were raped, and it's unethical to fight fire with fire, or return an act of violence with another act of violence. No I can't force someone to live in your house, nor is to comparable to a human being. The house isn't living and breathing nor is the house attempting to reproduce other houses... It just... Isn't a good analogy...
And I'm tired of you not getting what I'm talking about - I'm not talking about morality or ethics of abortion. I'm talking about LAW, and why abortion needs to become legal. You seem to have problems understanding bodily autonomy, so I made an analogy with material things - your property is yours, and no one has the right to get into your house. But if you want more accurate analogy, here it is - Would you vote for such a law? ↗In your opinion, not giving that kidney to the dying person might be unmoral and unethical, because it wouldn't harm you much and it would save the other person from dying. You can see that person as selfish. But you can not make a law which forces them to give up that kidney because you can't take the right to bodily autonomy from them no matter what is your opinion on ethics of their decision.
Ouch, you called me a troll, and stupid. Would you like to insult me more for asking a genuine question?
So the baby and the mother are one? Sure the baby is connected through an umbilical cord, but during birthing the baby is sperated from that connection. After that the baby has a maternal bond sure. But is that still suggesting that you are still your mother's physical body to this day? Sure you are a part of her, as you share half of her chromosomes, and half of your father's chromosomes. But you are not the same person as your mother, and most people if not all will testify to that. So what exactly makes the fetus a part of the mother, so that the claim of the child being her body, makes the decision hers to make? Just because something is living and growing inside of you doesn't make it a part of you, nor does it take away from the fact that it is its own living organism. Consider you have a parasite living inside of you, or even having a virus. Would you claim that that organisims is part of your body? And now you may think I'm contradicting myself. Most people if not all, take steps towards getting rid of the parasite or the virus after learning that they have contracted it. But of course we can not compare an unborn fetus to a parasite, as it is the start of a sentient, sapient, human life. One that is capable of speech, love, sadness, fear, anger, and much more. Is it fair to rid the fetus of that chance at life?
Not after birth but before it is the mother's decision and to force her to give birth is barbaric
And it's less barbaric to kill a baby?
My opinion is in the first few months of pregnancy if a women discovers she has an unwanted pregnancy she should be able to terminate. No I dont think it's right in the last month of pregnancy or something ridiculous. And I wish it was a better world but we can't control who gets pregnant and who doesn't. But if you saw some of the unwanted kids in social services care you might also agree there are some things worth then death these kids have endured. So unless your going to raise all the unwanted children. I am going to stick to abortion early in the pregnancy as an option
Her body not her life...
Ultimately It should not be the woman's decision to make. She had sex, wether protected or unprotected, planed or unplanned. If you learn that you are pregnant and you are going to have a baby, you should have to just accept that and work with that. Having kids is a huge learning experience that teaches so much responsibility. If anything it should teach you not to have sex with people so whimsically anymore. In cases of rape, or anything like that, it's unfortunate, but it's not the babies fault that you had that happen to you, you should take out your anger or hate for the rapists out on this unborn life. There's so much morally wrong with Abortion that I wish people would realise. Instead of thinking it's an attack on women, realise that it's a protection for babies. Wether they just fertilized the egg, or they are about to be born 9 months later. It's unfair to stop the development of that baby because you don't believe you are incapable. It's selfish. This topic is so confusing to me people love babies Soo much when they are actually born. They ooh and ahhh, they pinch their cheeks they rock and hold. They kiss and cuddle. this is because it's a living creature full of life and potential. But just because it's not at the stage where you can hold it in your hands you think it's okay to give it the death sentence? That's like crushing a fertilized chicken egg. Females just because they don't they can "handle it" get to play judge and Executioner‽
And so many of you women think this is okay? Just because it's growing in your body? Just because it came from your ovaries? If mammals reproduce externally instead of internally like birds, reptiles, fish, and insects would that decision to kill the fetus still be up to the parent? A mother lays an egg and thinks, "eh, I don't feel like going through the trouble to raise this thing my body just haaad to produce." Would they have the right to just throw it away then? To crush it and let it never be able to grow up and have the abilites to make the same choice later on in life, when they become pregnant?
Well like I said you raise all the unwanted children then no more abortion but you drug addicts criminals etc having children and some of those children would have chosen death then go through what I have seen in CPS
U can't MAKE THOSE ASSUMPTIONS THOUGH. That right there is the problem. Everyone thinks they are playing the role of fucking Robin Hood! Oh no, the kid will grow up with a drunk mother. Then get put into the system and the system is awful this that and the other. You know how you fix that? Take all the wasted money that gets put into abortions and put it towards CPS. And mandatory classes to help teach parents how to take care of their kid and that won't be an issue. And some kids have great home lives but still turn out as rotten people. What people forget is all the problems they went through as a kid, but you know what? Having to go through problems and things like that younger, gives you experience and makes you a better person later on. IK THIS FROM EXPERIENCE! My mother used to be a very angry person, and I found myself thinking before if she even loved me. But she was dealing with some heavy stuff at the time I didn't understand. She's Soo much better than she was before and a really good person, and I absolutely love my mother and have no clue what I'd do if she were to die, or anything happen to her. And I like to think so far I'm okay. I much prefer that I was born into a shitty world and was able to figure out that this world is shit early on. Than being aborted, because someone feared for my future. I much Prefer the life I have now than having been raised in a overly protected, super loving, all hugs and kisses house hold as well. Because I'd go crazy, and so many other people have gone crazy when they finally saw what the real world is like.
Stop trying act like your doing these kids a service by literally murdering them.
That's like Killing someone who's in a coma, because you don't think you can deal with them, and their problems, you want to go ahead and take away their life support, when they have no say in the matter. First of you said "some" not most or all. Second "Some of those children would have chosen death than go through what I have seen in CPS" I know sooo many people my age who have talked about suicide who didn't grow up in CPS, so many people who talk about wanting to have been aborted for the smallest things. Sure they think things are hard but they don't actually kill themselves, and later they find something to appreciate about actually being alive. Color, music, art, the feel of wind on their face, the smell of Lavender, and so much other stuff. Don't rid children of that. Don't rid children, who mind you turn into adults, of the pleasures of life because you're too worried about the bad in the world.
Fuck I'm getting upset.
I'd pull a plug on a person in a coma do really suggest they lay there like a sack of meat
I stand by what I said. There is a need for ways for women to have abortions due to the fact that the children will suffer. Have you helped the problem? How many unwanted children have you adopted. There are children sitting waiting for a family and you suggest we flood an already over taxes system? Fuck yes murdering the baby at 4 weeks is preferable to what is likely to occur with a parent unprepared to raise them and a system already over crowded.
People who are in comas have the possibility of waking up, going through rehab and living a full rest of their life. I'm done talking to you though we obviously have very different regard for human life, mine being thousands of times higher than yours. However I will respond to your question that you've asked in attempt to make my view point seem wrong.There's only so much a 16 year old can do, at the moment my effort to help with this problem is by talking about it like I'm doing right now. I'm too young to adopt as legally I'm still a minor. I value human life more than a realativly worthless slip of green paper, if helping kids in a homeless shelter means paying more money I don't give a fuck. No parent is every truly prepared to raise a child, it's a huge learning curve you have to experience to do so. You can't use a person's lack of experience as an excuse, people do what they want to do wether it's right or wrong. To me you don't care about the children at all if you rather them to be dead as opposed to have been given an opportunity to Live. Which i will never agree with as a view point. And though I very rarely say someone's opinion is wrong, I have to let you know that your own is very, indeed wrong. I hope you don't teach your children this same line of reasoning if you have or consider having children.
And that is really the point at 16 your still idealistic and hopeful of life. You have not witnessed true suffering and torture that exists when a parent should not have a child. You also do not have the comprehension of laying in a bed helpless. And how that state is not tolerable to many people. They choose death because a coma is not life. That's why people have directives put in place to make sure it is done so pro lifers won't keep them from thier wishes. You may keep your opinions your whole life you might not but dont assume my value on life based on your limited experience. Its because I have sone these things and sat with a child who has been tortured by their family that I want to protect those already alive there are not enough homes for the ones we have now. And I have adopted from the system. Neither of us are wrong or right we are simply speaking from the experience we each have.
I lied... I'm so sorry to anyone who is reading these replies. I said I wasn't going to reply but here I am back again. It's so hard to hold back when you keep getting notifications from someone as insensitive as @Neeceeb7. Because of my age, being 16 years old, "I have yet to seen true suffering and torture and torture that exists when a parent should not have a child." First off what is this even supposed to mean? That I've never seen a bad parent? Or that I've seen a child suffer because of a bad parent? Neither one of those things is true. So let me try to think of other meanings. I never seen a mother struggle to raise a child. Well... That's not true, I've been raised by a single sick mother who currently is concerned as to whether she has ovarian cancer or not. Soo let me think of something else. Ooh maybe she thinks that I've never know of a struggling child because they live in a poor environment. Heh... That's definitely not it. So don't try to use my fucking age as a cop out. I'm not to brag about my smarts but I'm a relatively smart teenager. I have a comprehension of what it's like to be bed ridden be cause my now deceased grandfather was.
I've already said your right in your opinion I have my own I have already said good job in your thoughts. Neither of us is going to change our mind so you can continue if you want and nothing will be changed by it. You dont comprehend my point I dont comprehend yours. The only difference is that I get your side I see what your saying yes its lovely to dave everyone and everything. I see it it's not reality and abortions will continue. But you have made a well thought out and articulate argument.