That is fine. Just do not vote if you cannot vote for either.
It seems. He only cares about his hotels and profit. He really does not care about the people.
He never has, and never will. Never is a very long time.
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Well, we will miss you then. Lets just let everyone out and go back to normal and let old people die.
All sorts of preventable deaths happen every day in the United States because one political party or the other values their own pocket book higher than the life of that person dying in question.For example, alcoholics value alcoholism higher than the lives lost by drunk driving accidents.Democrats value their votes higher than the life of an unborn child.Both parties care more about themselves and their pocketbook than saving lives from the Flu. If government were rational, the Flu vaccine and Pneumococcus vaccine would be required for everyone every year, and there would be no exception for the ridiculous notion of people being "religiously opposed to medicine"... as any religion that opposes the wisdom of medication obviously cannot be from the True Creator.Do you realize how much money and resources would be saved if vaccines were mandatory every year?do yo urealize how much money and other resources would be saved and lives saved if we had a "fat tax" encouraging Obese people to eat less, eat right, and exercise? Pretty much the entire top 5 causes of Death would go away, and that would be a huge boon to the REAL economy too.
Some people would prefer maximum freedom while they are alive rather than losing some freedoms for the undetermined possibility of living longer. That is a choice made on the basis of some fundamental assumptions that are neither right now wrong.
In a word, yes.
@WadeDanielSmith Changing the subject does not work with me. Stay on topic, please. I am not Trump where he keeps moving the orange ball on his challenged supporters.
That is not how it is done. The older people get it from younger people who are around them since they are out in public a lot more. Guess you do not visit your parents or grandparents. You would know this.
My grandmother lives on another continent
To get away from you or what? lol
No, she just thinks every country that isn't Poland sucks
Poland is probably far better than the US now since we have the worst president in history for sure.
She came here when Obama was still in officeNOOOOOOOOOOO! Even if you think he's bad, there's no way he's worse than Jimmy Carter, Bush Sr. and some of the earlier ones like Polk or Andrew Johnson.
Your understanding of Constitutional law is rather incomplete.
It is all political and selfish with Trump. He also wants his own hotels to open ASAP.
Trump is a selfish person, so is it a surprise?
Okay, so what's his self-interest angle here?
@AllThatSweetJazz He can't afford to have the economy tanked... it's the only straw he was grasping in re-election. That, and he'll make Joe out to be a creepy guy, (but trumpfus can grab pussies), or with dementia. Re-normalizing too soon, with no capacity for testing and isolation, is a formula for disaster. We don't have the tests, we don't even have enough PPE for hospitals and health care workers being anywhere near CLOSE to enough. He's losing money too, personally, something he never likes. No matter how you try and spin it, he's the same scum bag he's always been, except now, he's a cartoon potus.
But how would letting people die serve that? People are the economy.
@AllThatSweetJazz Exactly... which is what will happen in greater numbers by re-opening too soon. Some states are working on plans to reopen in low exposure areas. Personally, I think it's a shitty idea.
The point is if letting people die doesn't serve the economy then why would you assume there is an economic agenda intending to sacrifice people? That would mean that if he was only interested in the economy then he wouldn't open up again. So clearly he has other ideas in mind.
@AllThatSweetJazz That too is true, but he's willing to sacrifice a million or so lives to get the economy up again. He's trying to move to a more totalitarian regime and circumvent the Constitution. That's been obvious since day 1.
By your own logic, if he cares about the economy then he's obviously not going to sacrifice millions of lives.I'm a social liberal, but you make me defend the guy when you say deranged shit like that.He's obviously not totalitarian. He's obviously not circumventing the constitution.His first term will end, and the world won't have burned to the ground. Then he wins in November against whoever and you'll "endure" four more years and everything will be fine -- and maybe then you'll have learned and given up on this craziness.
@AllThatSweetJazz There's no derangement in my statement, although your reaction seems a bit out of control. My logic is sound, and as 'social liberal', I'd think you'd find his actions abhorrent for the most part, leaving little to defend. Sacrificing a million lives to restart the economy is numerically worthy endeavor, in his eyes. If a million people worldwide stop eating at McDonalds, they won't notice thing. If a million, maybe 2 million more die in the USA, but things start getting back to normal, its a win for him. I mean what the hell, they'll probably be mostly old people on SSI so it will save us money anyway, right? You mistake Trump for someone who "cares" about anything at all other than lining his own pockets. Even using the word "care" when he is concerned is arguably a misnomer. A robust economy is a means to an end for him personally. Try not to make the case that he "cares" that families survive and thrive because he has genuine concern about the PEOPLE in those families. He only cares that those people can work and spend, so the companies he invests in can prosper. And so his hotels can be filled, and his real estate sold. And so on. I realize the next guy isn't going to blow up the system and suddenly we'll have "liberty and social justice for all", and corruption will fade from the hearts of men. BUT... there are and have been leaders who actually DO "care" about the people who as you say, ARE the economy. Justice is a whole 'nother topic. Trump is not one of those leaders who gives a shit about either of those things. He IS "obviously" trying to circumvent the Constitution every chance he gets. There's also such a thing as "abuse of power". But I'm not here to toil over his abuses or debate them with
*anyone, as that's a waste of time.
“I'd think you'd find his actions abhorrent for the most part”Not really. There are some things, but mostly no. I won’t be lumped in with the far-left.The orange man can be bad, but he’s not that bad.“Sacrificing a million lives to restart the economy is numerically worthy endeavor, in his eyes.”Sounds like it’s *your* position, not his.There’s a lot of “probably”s in there. You’ve assuming malintent and/or uninformed decision making. Can you acknowledge the possibility that it could actually be better overall to open things up?“You mistake Trump for someone who "cares" about anything at all other than lining his own pockets.”And you ascribe Trump malintent arbitrarily. You’re *convinced* he can’t be anything other than evil…. leaving little to defend, right?“A robust economy is a means to an end for him personally”It’s also a means to the survival and success of a nation. I’m sure excessive pride in his work is a big deal to him, and if everyone around him prospers ass he pursues that, then that’s a win. If I pay a doctor to help me, that doesn’t negate the help.“Try not to make the case that he "cares"…”See how you have to act like *everything* he does is bad? That’s derangement, dude. What would it look like if he was actually trying to just do the job of president? Oh it would look the same, hmmmmmmm.
“Trump is not one of those leaders who gives a shit about either of those things.”And that’s just editorializing, and I feel differently, so without substantive justifications, it’s just going to be about feelings and opinions.“He IS "obviously" trying to circumvent the Constitution every chance he gets.”Nope, not really. No more than the usual arguments about interpretations of the constitution and checking who has what powers. Really, it’s just the coronavirus response on a state and federal level that has been problematic when it comes to constitutional rights, and Trump is not the worst offender there. There are state authorities breaking up protests and arresting people who are out alone, that’s the real bad thing. Trump’s failing there is not putting his foot down when it comes to the governors letting that shit happen.“There's also such a thing as "abuse of power".”But where is this *heinous and damning abuse of power* that the Trump-deranged seem convinced of?
@AllThatSweetJazz As I said, I refuse to debate this. You obviously see no problems with anything from reallocating disaster relief to supporting a judge who lied under oath to the whole Ukranian shit show. Your prerogative. I have my reasons, and I'm not here to persuade you or do a thesis. . I WILL say that my family had direct dealings with his family, in NYC. We know from experience the sort of individual he is, so you saying "he's not that bad", just means you don't know him like we do. Your accusation that it's MY opinion to sacrifice millions to open the economy is ridiculous. "Conscious malintent" is not a requirement when your a real narcissist. He doesn't need to say out loud "fuck the families, I don't care who dies, "we" just need to start making money again". The only part that registers is the latter " we just need to start making money again". I do not acknowledge the "possibility" or reopening anytime soon, such as May 1, or May 15. No, I do not. And unless something amazing happens, the science backs that up.One last thing. When I say Trump doesn't care about individual people, or justice, I base it on his actions, his LACK of action, and his rhetoric. It's a rational, documentable observation that's "should be" easily recognizable to anyone who understands what those terms mean. So while you choose to label it "editorializing", it is neither sophistry nor unsubstantiated opinion. This is now a waste of both of our time. And with that, stay safe and enjoy your day, sir. I have enjoyed your comments on other subjects, but we can only agree to disagree here, which we should do, while we still have that option! :)
“the science backs that up.”Does it?And experts telling him the people need access to the economy means nothing?“When I say Trump doesn't care about individual people, or justice, I base it on his actions, his LACK of action, and his rhetoric.”Oh, I’m sure you believe it.So, I’m guessing racism or something?“It's a rational, documentable observation that's "should be" easily recognizable to anyone who understands what those terms mean.”Well that comes with the derangement, doesn’t it?I’ve seen anti-Trumpers take opposing positions to him, even when he himself comes around to an opposing view – they will flip to oppose him. They’re in some kind of bubble where they can be absolutely convinced that they’re looking at some kind of proof of evildoing, even when it’s just nothing.“it is neither sophistry nor unsubstantiated opinion.”Except for the majority of the accusation being arbitrary assertions about what you “know” about his true nature.What seems like is going to happen is what has already happened, 4 years of whinging will pass and everything will be fine and it will pass quietly into the next administration with nothing uniquely bad or substantive will occur.“while we still have that option”Is Doresy or Zuckerberg going to buy up g@g?
@AllThatSweetJazz And you just keep on blabbing. Only God knows your true nature, I just know how you act, and what you do and what you say. What I know of him is not arbitrary at all. You just think it is. When the "experts" told him what was coming, he ignored it. When the experts told him to take it seriously, he ignored it. In fact, he did WORSE and downplayed it. When they said shut down, he said "I can't do that. It's up to the states". When the states started talking about limited re-opening, he said "I'm in charge of that and I'll say when". When Fauci has to cover his face in disbelief, and argue for what the data says, and bite his tongue just to remain in a position where he can talk sense to the idiot, that's just arbitrary too. All my assertions, are documented. All trumps denials, walk backs, hateful rhetoric, disrespectful comments, are all documented. Your denying of them is your own issue. So as I asked nicely, please, stop your communication with me and be done. I've nothing at all to learn from you at this point, nor you from me.
“What I know of him is not arbitrary at all. You just think it is.”Well it’s not like you’re substantiating it. It’s just ‘trust me, it’s real.’But I’ve listened to extreme anti-Trump rhetoric for four years and no one stops their shitstorm to have a carefully considered discussion about real criticisms against Trump. Even when I have something I want to criticise about him, I see people can’t help but flip out and call him worse than Hitler and the worst person they can imagine and all the rest of it, then I’m forced to defend him because of how unhinged the left gets.“When the "experts" told him what was coming, he ignored it.”Oh, when was this? You mean the day he got briefed on it and that same day formed the taskforce?“When they said shut down, he said "I can't do that. It's up to the states".It literally is up to the states. I forget which amendment that is, but it literally is up to the states.“When the states started talking about limited re-opening, he said "I'm in charge of that and I'll say when"”Yes, and he is wrong, he doesn’t have that power – and that’s what I said before about who has what powers.“When Fauci has to cover his face in disbelief, and argue for what the data says”Just because fauci has an opinion doesn’t mean there isn’t a valid opposition. He’s obviously going to be thinking about health concerns, damning the cost. But an economist can also have a valid opinion which points out that at some point staying inside is more dangerous than going out. The economy relates to people’s health as well. This is why it’s a tough choice, they both have merit.
“All trumps denials, walk backs, hateful rhetoric, disrespectful comments, are all documented.”Yes, but the thing is are they a problem? You call some of them “hateful” but often people who make that claim are full of it, he says some indelicate thing and sensitive folk flip out, that’s not hateful. Same with respect. You feeling disrespected doesn’t mean anything to normal people looking for solutions to problems. There’s context to all this stuff.“Your denying of them is your own issue.”Not denying them, my point is that the vast majority of what people get bend out of shape over is just nothing. They exist, it just doesn't matter.“So as I asked nicely, please, stop your communication with me and be done.”My niceness manifests in me making substantive replies. As long as I’m interested in engaging with the conversation, I will make replies. If you don’t want to talk then don’t talk and I won’t have anything to respond to. That is my respectful concession.
The govt just spent 2 trillion dollars on that. So Republicans are socialists now and want more from the government? What hypocrites.
Actually, depending on what brand you want to buy, food canneries have between 3 and 5 years worth of food stored in warehouses already. and we can still raise food on the farm. In fact, Farmers are having to throw food away right now because people are actually buying and eating less, so the food is being wasted and they can't even afford to can some types of food that aren't traditionally canned or are traditionally not worth enough money to be worth canning, such as Yellow Squash and similar foods.All that means is our "economic model" is flawed. If you measure "economy" by how much money people spend, that is ass backwards. "Consumerism" is not economical and should be discouraged, not promoted. One problem with Capitalism is it is based on "Consumerism".I don't spend my money on useless shit. I don't buy name brand clothes because I can do something more important with my money than buy a name tag, and I don't buy fad items or whatever. I just buy food and I buy a new video game like once every 5 years now or something. I HATE "Consumerism" because it is NOT economics, it's a complete waste of resources.
Yes! His business is always more important than the US people. Why did he even run for president.
What business are you referring to?
If you are unaware--a $2 trillion bill was passed by Congress (Senate Republicans gave the rich a lot of special perks in the bill) to help people. Wow, dense.
Ya in Nov. we can steer him out of office and then kick him out to Russia where he wants to be like Putin.
False, The United States has so much food stockpiled in cannery warehouses we could survive for 3 to 5 years even if we stopped farming right now. If we kept farming, we could feed ourselves indefiintely even with the economy "shut down".We are actaully so good at producing food in this country that we only sell the best food, and we throw the bad produce back in the field as seed for the next season, and we don't even sell "culls" to poor people any more, because government subsidies exist to keep the price of perfect produce dirt cheap. Food is only 1% of the U. S. economy now, even though we export over a quarter of the world's food supply.We are NOT even REMOTELY about to run out of food in the United States, we have literally ten times more arable land and fresh water than even the next closest nation.
@WadeDanielSmith I doubt those numbers, I'd like a source, but whatever, having the food doesn't mean you can feed everyone. Curious how it seems that food banks are running dry. The farmers are still growing food, but they're throwing it back in the ground because there's no one buying it or moving it. Dairy farmers are tossing out shittons of milk. Meatworks are shutting down. Supply chain is a big part of the economy.Just because you have the land doesn't mean you can farm it. You would have to start by *opening up the economy*."we could feed ourselves indefiintely even with the economy "shut down".Theoretically. But that would be a command economy and it wouldn't just be for food.
So you will put up your parents to sacrifice then. Prove your point.