@InvestigatorIf those that abused their power had not done so there would have been no problems found by Snowden therefore there would have been no leaks. Put the blame where the blame belongs. l
@joeblow123 I'm not putting the blame on Edward Snowden for leaking said top-secret information the way he did. I'm not sure if there was even a way to "officially" do what he did; I doubt there was a way to inform the public without also informing our adversaries.The problem is/was the fact that the NSA has very little oversight. His actions would not have been necessary if there was a regular, ongoing audit from a third-party that could impose regulations regarding what data is collected, how, on whom, for how long, etc.The issue is not one of accessibility, but accountability.
@Investigator"The issue is not one of accessibility, but accountability."Exactly.
He got CIA and NSA agents killed.These are the same agencies that conducted project MKultra
And are also the same agencies that help get Americans out of harms way in black ops, and kill enemies of the country. At the very least, they are people likely with wives, husbands, children and parents.
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Apparently, you've never worked in the defense industry or intelligence community.
@abc3643 No, I have not. What is your point?
When you work in those industries, then you understand certain things... One of those things is that people's livelihood and even their lives and those of their families are at stake, so, when secrecy is violated, that puts those people at risk.Try to think of the Christopher Nolan Batman movies...... the purpose of the mask. (Dark Knight Rises)... and how Batman got Lau from Hong Kong. (Dark Knight)Also, think of, "The Savage Curtain", the penultimate episode of Star Trek in which Kirk, Spock, Lincoln, and Surak battle 4 "evil" persons from history so these aliens called Excalbians can learn about good and evil.This discussion near the end is pivotal.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEDLI3baJpwMy point is that:1. Snowden was a young immature idealist who doesn't understand how the real world functions.2. Snowden was a young immature idealist who didn't understand he compromised the safety of the people whose job is to protect the USA. There are a lot of people defending this country who don't wear uniforms and some of their acts may seem "evil" but actually are not - just like nuking Hiroshima and killing 10s of thousands to prevent the death of millions more.
@abc3643 If Snowden did these things you claim;WHY IS HE PERFECTLY WILLING TO FACE A JURY TRIAL HERE IN THE UNITED STATES?All he wants is the opportunity to face a jury and tell the public his side of the story.Then you can make all the claims you wish about supposedly "jeopardizing" the safety of whomever.
If he was willing to face a jury trial in the USA, then he'd head to the closest US embassy and surrender himself. (Of course, the Russians have to be willing to let him go.) Once brought home, he'd get a jury trial. He'd understand that because he went to high school and thus should know what a Writ of Habeas Corpus is. If Snowden doesn't know that, well, that just furthers my assertion of his immaturity.Anyway, work in the defense industry a bit, and then you will understand.As far as I am concerned, he's a traitor and should be shot.... and I am a liberal.
@abc3643 Ah, so this means you no nothing about Snowden, his case, his argument nor the government's response.It is funny. Your argument is that you don't want to know any of the details of what Snowden uncovered, what the government response was, or how any of this unfolded. Your argument is that you are ignorant and you wish to remain so.And that is amazing in itself.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4nFGOEeSP0
I know what he did.Both Democrats and Republicans agree on this: What he did was violate the laws the of the United States and imperiled lives because of it. There is a reason classified information is classified. Have you ever seen a classified document? I have. I can't discuss the details, but the document I saw contained data gathered from spies. (This is why is was classified as WINTEL (Warning Notice – Intelligence Sources or Methods Involved.). So, if that document was leaked then:1. Enemies know we knew things about them that they don't want us knowing - like their military capabilities and incapabilities.2. They'd know who to go after to hunt down the spy or traitor on their end.Snowden is an idealistic and naive traitor. On most days, I think he should be put against the wall and shot with it filmed live and lived on YouTube forever after.However, I'd be willing to let him remain in a US prison for life.And what you said earlier was on point: Snowden should get a jury trial in the US... and he'd get one if he wanted. All he has to do is go to the nearest US embassy and surrender and get that free plane ride home. Apparently he doesn't want one. He likes his "freedom" in Russia.I am done with this topic and muting now.I have no desire to get pissed off more considering tomorrow is the 25th anniversary of OKC. At least that mass murderer got his justice.
You might be interested in this...file:///media/fuse/drivefs-e96e7acda303489de222bbd13aeaf2dd/root/stelprdb6008333. pdf
Shit, wrong link...inside.fsis.usda.gov/.../stelprdb6008333.pdf
@abc3643 No, the dems and repubs don't agree on this. There are plenty of dems and repubs who agree he needs a fair trial. But you and yours do not want this. Again, if you are so sure he is guilty, why not let him present his case just like every other supposed criminal. They want him to face a military court, which finds guilt like 99% of the time. Let him have a regular jury trial. Let him get his own lawyer and prepare his own defense. Again, you have proceeded to his conviction. And again, I say why doesn't the U. S government give him a standard jury trial. There is no excuse for that. If what you say is true, it should be an open and shut case.Haha!! You say you are a "liberal", just like in the Trump era it means anything. In this era.. . . everything not of trump is "liberal".
Manning was a full blown traitor.
@jgokgotit Not in my book. Sure, he betrayed a dynasty dominated by the military industrial complex, but his actions were in service of his fellow-citizens (the actual nation) who finance the operations.
As a member of the military you took an oath to protect and uphold the United States Constitution. Snowden did the same. So did those that violated the laws on the books and the Constitution. They have betrayed their country. Their crime is treason. As far as I am concerned they have a date with the executioner. Snowden took his oath seriously. That is why he did what he did. Snowden acted on principle. That is something that used to be admired.
@jgokgotitI forgot to include the above. The reason I am writing this message is so it shows up on your GAG dashboard. I don't know if it makes a difference or not. Unlike GAG most other message boards have "edit" buttons or links but with GAG it's good luck, Charly.
@winterfox10 I am with you on this Winterfox.
@KrakenAttackin I feel like the citizenry of the US ought to spend a lot more time learning about government in grade school.
You’re an idiot.
@Thatsamazing"Lol at all the people voting "hero" who know basically nothing at all about him."LOL at the people who have been brainwashed by the deep state who convinced them to hate Snowden. "God people are dumb". Tell me about it. That is the case with everyone I disagree with.
You're a fascinating specimen.
Their job was to spy on innocent Americans. I hope they had extreme difficulty doing their job.
@joeblow123 Spying on American's was not their primary motive. Their main goal was stopping terrorism.
@Opinion OwnerThat's the cover story. James Clapper, head of the NSA, lied under oath.
Whoops wrong post
If that is true, why do they want to throw him in jail so badly? It shouldn't be a big deal, right?
Well he still broke protocol and defied authority which needed to be punished and set an example of. Truth is he just kind of verified what we should have already known if we paid attention to world politics like we should have. Watch this video by stormcloudsgathering on edward snowden. I can't seem to link it because apparently I have to be level 3 on here or something...
Video is called "The snowden case what you're not being told"
Obviously, they have more concerns than punishing a breach of protocol. Remember Snowden has offered to return to the U. S. and to be arrested, so as long as he can present his case to the public via a jury trial. The Obama administration refused.And now so has the Trump administration.
I would argue the US is becoming more and more authoritarian than ever. In a situation like this, insubordination is a huge concern to them. No administration will ever give snowden the fair trial he deserves
Why, the government should not keep secrets or do shady things
@RolandCuthbert man im soo glad to see you. remember me?
Not certain. I must have met you back in the beginning when the forum was more diverse.
@RolandCuthbert yup. its alright though. you and i think alike. we always have the same opinions on most of the questions like these. i joined gag back in 2014 and left in 2018 i think. you profile picture was same before as it is now. anyways, im deactivating my account again because its really depressing here because everytime i realize that gag is not the same as before and a lot of good old users are gone too and that is making me feel really depressed. anyways. it was good to see you man. take care
Yeah a lot of folks just left. Seems like the weird crazed binary conversation that most trolls love drove them away. I stayed and the trolls here hate my guts. But I was posting less and less. It is just that I was on lockdown for three weeks because I had symptoms. And now I don't work as much. I have lost almost all of my staff man.This has been horrible. But I am alive and I am thankful.How have you been?