We might have equal opportunity to be educated for a position, but that doesn't mean we will get hired or promoted in that field. Of students getting finance degrees, 40% are female, yet only 3-9% of females are promoted to management or senior roles. This is not limited to finance, but also to other fields like law.
And of course the moment a man tells a woman to grow up, stand on your own two feet and throws a few facts your way it's going to get downvoted thus proving that any time a woman is told be the adult you claim the dummy gets spat out and the tantrum follows, instead of looking at your own behaviour, no can't do that instead I'll prefer to have my biases confirmed and throw a hissy fit.
Fucking finally!!! Someone with a functioning brain, thank you!!!
You're only 19. Just wait until you go out in the real world and work a real job, then tell me we have equal rights.
Your problem is you're a modern day feminist, looking for ways you're disadvantaged and assuming all women will join your point of view. Get over yourself
There are a lot of women who face workplace discrimination and age discrimination based on sex. You won't see much of this at 19 and maybe none at all if you choose low wage jobs
Properly well said. I didn't know women like you excited. Never let any of them fill your head. Most women who claim not to be equal to men are individually weaker than their peers and chose to blame it on gendre discrimination. My mother served in the army for 27 years. She always split bills with my dad and put me through college on her own. Never hid behind the fact she's a women and not allowed to do this or that.
@ZackBan LOL and you're only 22. WTF do you know about the workforce? you can only cite your mom, and sucks for her that she had to go in halfsies. I could also say since I have a black friend who has never experience racism, than that must mean all black people have never experienced racism.
Racism is the same way. It's an excuse to justify a life of crime. Like "oh the system won't let me straight so I'mma roll with a gang and sell drugs and blame it on racism" Just face it, you're not a race, you're not a gender. You're a person and you can make whatever you want of yourself. "Losers make excuses winners find a way"
@ZackBan have you ever been a woman working in a predominantly male field? Doubtful, so don't comment on gender discrimination when you know nothing about it.You don't even have to go to the workplace to experience discrimination. Just listen to rap lyrics 😂Nice work getting women to turn on each other tho to support male chauvinists
I've figured out why the average IQ is plummeting so quickly, because people like @Broken_doll are breeding and are teaching their children to be deranged too
@Nachowedgie good job trying to bail out of the debate on gender discrimination in the workplace by resorting to cliche insults. Reminds me of second grade. But, I get it. Kinda tough to comment on the workplace when you're still a baby boy, huh?
This was never a debate. It was just you embarrassing yourself with every follow up comment you made. Like just there for example ^I've been working for more than half my life, never had a childhood, wasn't a luxury where I come from. Stopping now would be your best way of not embarrassing yourself any further.
Trying to use age as the basis for your "argument" just shows how weak the integrity of your "argument" really is, it's see through and embarrassing.
Let me know when you've been abused since the age of 5 and then maybe I'll actually take you seriously. Until then you just sound a pathetic privileged asshole
Yeah you mentioned I'm only 22 well your profile says 18 - 24. So what are you two years older than me? And even if you were 40 it makes no difference I don't need to walk a mile in your shoes to know excuses when i see them. I'm not a privileged kid who's never seen racism or sexism in action. But it's very dependant on people. One person being sexist doesn't mean the entire male population is out to get you and sure it sucks if that person is your boss but it's no excuse you are welcome to prove him wrong. That same boss could also hate a male employee for reasons that don't involve race or gendre. Saying women are looked down on is a convenient excuse for slackers to justify their shortcomings. Don't ask for better treatment. BE better and you will be treated as such whether they like it or not.
@ZackBan you say "be better" and that's supposed to stop your superiors from discrimination based on sex? I've already experienced gender discrimination based on sex because I started the work force early. Discrimination doesn't have to be only put upon by men, women go against their own gender sometimes too
@Nachowedgie you're embarrassing yourself by resorting to insults. So, you've been working since 10? Where do you live, Malaysia? I find that hard to believe. And, gender discrimination is more common in higher positions. It's easy to say you haven't seen it, so therefore it doesn't exist. You are also a male, so how would you know what females go through? And I did grow up in an abusive household, so you're wrong there too. But, that has nothing to do with this topic
@Broken_doll you're embarrassing yourself by bringing the weakest argument know to humanity to the table with the weakest defence of age. The internet is anonymous, you could be 16 for all we know, you certainly behave like an entitled 16 year old. Gender discrimination in the workplace in the way you're describing hasn't existed since it became illegal many years ago. I've seen discrimination against men in then workplace, but of course you'll say that doesn't happen to men, but it only happens to females right?You are also a privileged female, so how would you know what men go through?With the concentrated stream of privilege you're project I can tell you were handed everything until adulthood (if you even are an adult) you probably still get handed stuff now. The amount of entitlement radiating off of you is obnoxious.
You clearly aren't even reading what I wrote. I'm not saying there isn't discrimination. I'm saying discrimination is no excuse for shortcomings. Complaining about it like you're doing now will not help. I may not have tasted gender discrimination in the workforce but I've been discriminated before but that never stopped me from getting what I want and thriving for it. I simply don't believe wining and making excuses gets results, ever.
@Nachowedgie I'm amazed that you think just because something is illegal, it doesn't happen. Age discrimination is huge in the hiring process, especially in tech, but that doesn't stop employers from finding ways.Not too long ago, my boss hinted that the only way I'd be promoted is to get sexually involved with him. He did this in a very subtle way so it would be difficult to sue. And when I was younger and bartending, my boss told me to start flirting with the customers or he couldn't keep me on. Did he make the male bartenders flirt? I also once lost a very prestigious job because the male superior wanted to replace me with a younger female, yet the older males were able to keep their jobs. You say I discount male discrimination in the workplace. How so? How are men discriminated against in the workplace? No, I didn't have everything handed to me. I grew up in an abusive household and I worked throughout school so that I could afford part of my tuition that wasn't covered by a grant that I received from being a low income student.I worked very hard in my life and took a lot of shit. I'm also older than you and have been in the workforce much longer (even if you started working at the age of 10 like you said), So tell me where is my entitlement?
@ZackBan you should read what I just wrote about the workplace discrimination I faced, THEN tell me I'm making excuses
You've had rough I get it. But that doesn't mean the whole world is out to get you. I'm certainly not. Also your boss or bosses in this case were assholes and set a bad example but not all bosses are like them. I was once benched an entire season of basketball because the coach didn't like how meddling my father was. I know it's not the same level but it was torture watching everyone play as I sit in the corner for something I didn't do. But then I changed teams and became team captain. My point is you need to see the world in a case by case basis. Because you can be sure that somewhere out there there is a boss who's very nice to his employees of all genders and also somewhere is a waitress who "does" flirt to get tips and costumers. Not every woman is like you and not every man is like them.They don't mean that women don't have rights they do it's just some people still haven't come around to it and probably never will
@ZackBan my situations aren't unique. I'm not the only one who has experience gender based harrassment in the workplace. Of course there are good bosses, but there are so many bad ones that we can't just walk away from it and say "oh well, that's the way it is." Change doesn't happen that way
Change doesn't happen the way you're doing it either. By generalizing that the entire male population is out to get you and are all evil you lose your original message and end up breeding only hate. Because just like there tons of creeps like your boss who do this stuff to women there are tons of guys like me who never saw women as any less than equals. And me and mine end up grouped with the rest of the male population in your crusade for a better world. I wish I could take your side but you're not even letting me
@ZackBan lol I never said all men are evil. You are gaslighting me just because I have examples of sexist behavior in the workplace to show to you that it does, in fact, exist.But, you are trying to say that those examples are unique to me and is not occuring elsewhere. That's very naive for you to think that.When a female works in a male dominated fields, they experience sexism much more than a man working in a female dominated field.
"I never said all men are evil"He never said you were 'You are gaslighting me just because I have examples of sexist behavior in the workplace to show to you that it does, in fact, exist"No he's not, do you even know what that means?"But, you are trying to say that those examples are unique to me and is not occuring elsewhere" No he's not"When a female works in a male dominated fields, they experience sexism much more than a man working in a female dominated field"Now that's a sweeping generalisation if I ever saw one, do you actually have any factual evidence to support your silly claim?
@Nachowedgie "He never said you were"Yes, he did. He said I thought all men were out to get me and they are evil.Yes I can prove my "silly" claim. When I was in nursing school, we were given an article which shows that a male nurse gets promoted much faster and more respected than a female nurse, and in male dominated fields, the female is less likely to get promoted and more likely to experience disrespect.Another article also explains that females working in male dominant professions experience less benefits than those in mixed or mainly female workplaces...Pewresearch. org/fact-tank/2018/03/07/women-in-majority-male-workplaces-report-higher-rates-of-gender-discrimination/
"Yes, he did. He said I thought all men were out to get me and they are evil" Please provide the exact quote where he said this
@Nachowedgie "By generalizing that the entire make population are out to get you and are evil, you lose your original message and only breed hate."Next time, scroll up and read for yourself. Also, I'm sure he could speak for himself, or are you his attorney?
Yeah that still doesn't mean he said "All men were out to get me and they are evil" With your sweeping generalisations of"Of course there are good bosses, but there are so many bad ones that we can't just walk away from it"You've had an incredibly small percentage off bosses in your lifetime compared to how many there are in the world (Even though I still don't believe you're an adult with the way you behave) so saying "there are so many bad ones" is inaccurate and shows you are generalising people.
@Nachowedgie yes, it does mean that. And, I never generalized that all men are evil. I don't like my words twisted.I am older than you and have had a lot of jobs, along with hearing experiences from friends. My point being we can't just walk away from sexist bosses, because that allows their behavior to continue.Instead we need change to show that behavior is not accepted.
You have no idea how old I am xD the internet is anonymous for a reason lolYou're not providing any solutions though, just sweeping generalisations that aren't helpful to anyone
@Nachowedgie I wasn't generalizing, otherwise I would say "all."
You don't have to say all to generalize *Facepalm*
I'll be honest I've never had two people arguing about what I said or didn't say like that 😂. I feel like some author. And yes I can speak for myself I just wasn't here for a while. One thing is I never said what that your situation is unique to you as in you're the only one it's happened to. I know it's happened to countless women all over the world. But what about all the women that did succeed in their field and gain renown? They didn't let their genitals dictate their life and neither should you. My whole argument is that you don't have to ask for what you want you're more than welcome to come and get it. Sure the road is different for each person and some have an easier time than others but that's true for everyone not just women.
@ZackBan sometimes your genetalia will dictate your career and it's beyond your control.Women shouldn't have to limit themselves to certain careers to avoid the "old boys club." But that's what it becomes. And I don't think we should shrug off gender discrimination and just fight harder. We should be treated as equals.
In a perfect world I'd personally mind control all men and drill equality in their brains but unfortunately in this one no matter what you do and how loud you scream those who don't want to treat women as equals never will and that's why I'm saying the smarter choice is to establish your credentials through hard work so that no one will be able to deny you and that's how it is for both men and women really. We are too different to be equal and I'm not talking about gendres I mean the population all together
@ZackBan obviously we have to hone our skills, but even if you're a rocket scientist, the biased bosses still won't give you a chance. You've seen that movie about the black female NASA mathematics, right? Now the discrimination has moved into a more subtle way so it's harder to fight against.
But do you really believe that simply asking for equality will compel sexist men to give it to you? Somehow I doubt it. I was raised to respect women and nothing could convince me not to and likewise men raised to discriminate will never change. Your only hope is to raise a better generation and not give the youth a reason to decide to be sexist one day. Basically don't make this a war of men vs women because then the more you push for equality the more they will resist it.
@ZackBan yes. What asking for equality does is shed light on situations of gender inequality and create awareness that this happening.Silence does nothing, but keep everything the same.Women are treated better now than they were in the 80s, feminism helped that.Oh, and I don't plan on breeding
Making it law is what helped. Feminism has only damaged society.Well I'm relieved to hear that, don't have to worry about any extra people with your ideas roaming this planet.
@Nachowedgie feminism is what made it the law. Oh don't you worry, there are plenty like me who are breeding. They will outbreed ignorant people like you
No, men made it law. The same "men" who gave you the right to vote as well.You're the only ignorant person here, cocooned in your echo chamber of misinformation
@Nachowedgie "men made it the law." Obviously, men had to make it the law because men are the ones in charge. But, it wouldn't be apart of the law of it weren't for female rights groups advocating
I doubt many actually plan on breeding. I know I don't. But it sorta just happens sometimes...As for the law. You gotta understand that few men, especially, the ones who control the law can actually be pressured into doing anything. The rights that women didn't have before but do have now came for demographic political reasons not because someone actually cared about feminism. If female rights groups had their way the world would be run by women and men would be rendered as little more than slaves. And they would still find a way to justify it. But regardless, you said yourself that women are treated better now than they were in the 80's. The truth is women of today can and are doing whatever they please with no restrictions. Sure there are men who are sexist towards them but as far as the law goes men and women are in fact equals.
@ZackBan show me where you are getting your info from on women's rights to vote.Also, it was women who made the workplace better by getting sexual harrassment laws passed, etc. The workplace may be better now, but there is still gender discrimination.So, if women ruled the world, we would make men slaves? Lol. Sounds like you're a bit brainwashed
Brainwash is a matter of perspective. I could say the same to you. I just noticed that it's been a week since we started arguing on the reply section of a girl who's not even involved in the debate.
@ZackBan she's not involved because she has no idea about this shit. but maybe you could keep pushing your MRA agenda and she might buy into the hoax.
So you think men should have no rights?
@Nachowedgie did I say that? No, I didn't. I believe in equal rights.
If you did you wouldn't be a feminist
Exactly @Nachowedgie. @Broken_doll, even though I clearly explained to you how I believe in equal rights you still talk about a hoax I'm pushing for. Why can't you see I'm not the enemy here. What you want and feminism are two very different things, while they like to pretend they want equality nothing feminists have ever done has helped achieve that equality. It's always a kill or be killed mentality they're either superior or inferior. Equality is about finding common grounds, about both parties making compromises in order for the other to believe they mean well. Men have already given women all the rights that our ancestors have denied them and yet women born in a world with equal rights still talk about the time when they couldn't vote as if they lived it. We can't undo the past but we can end this pointless argument ourselves. @littleoren02 is by no mean ignorant in fact her idea would actually get the results women still feel they're not getting
@ZackBan Your idea of feminism is pretty skewed. You must be looking at far radical feminist groups and think that's what it is. What female rights have men got for women? i find that hard to believe, especially when it comes to sexual harassment. Women tend to fight hard to change the law. And you say things are equal, then how come we still live with double standards? How come a woman who sleeps with several men is a slut and a man who does the same is a stud?
Every girl I've ever dated slept with at least 8 to 10 guys and that never made me see her as any less of decent woman. I know I'm not the standard on that and many guys do slut shame but it's their loss. Me it's not feminism that influenced me to accept it it's common sense
@ZackBan feminism has helped men too. Look at the cases Ruth Bader Ginsburg has won
She actually is a perfect example of what I was saying earlier. She chose to outwork the discrimination and having done so she gets to speak about equality. My problem is with women who do the bare minimum and blame men for their shortcomings. Equality is not a God given right like some would have you believe it's something you have to earn and do it despite opposition. Once you've earned it no one can ever deny it to you and that goes for men and women alike
@ZackBan yes, and she is a feminist.
@littleloren02 no, we haven't had the same rights for decades. Growing up, I had a violent father and sometimes the cops were called when he beat up on my mother. They automatically took his side because he's a man. Feminism did a lot to change that.Like I said before, I'm sorry that you are too sheltered to understand the real world.
You have had the same right for decades, it's literally in law. I had a violent mother growing up and sometimes the cops were called when she used to viciously beat me and attack me in my sleep. They automatically took her side because she's a woman and is smaller than me. Don't see feminism doing anything to change that.I'm sorry you can't see past your own nose and realise everyone has problems and that feminism has never and will achieve anything positive for anyone.
Funny you use the term sheltered. Where I'm from the cops wouldn't even bother showing up human rights are things we enforce ourselves through common sense and personal strength. So you had an abusive father that's unfortunate but that doesn't mean all men are abusive savages you're old enough not to hold a pointless grudge against the whole world. People are different all over no there is no single profile that can fit all men or all women. As long as the law dictates rights then women have rights. Now how enforced those rights are differ from place to place but that's something to be handled if and when it happens not generalized mixing the good men with the bad ones.
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What "more" rights do women have than men?
@Broken_doll The right to choose birth or abortion without the man having a word. They are privileged with getting to keep children and assets without letting the father see the children or have access to his assets. They can accuse a man of anything without having to prove it. They get lighter punishments for the same crime. And more.
You're wrong. You do need proof if you accuse a man of rape, etc. And I know women who have lost custody battles because they see the man as more fit to raise the kids. It seems you are going by very old "rights" that are mainly obsolete. So, if you wanna go there, then men can get away with domestic violence without being charged. They just spend a night in jail
@Broken_doll Obviously not ALL cases end that way, but majority do. You just never hear about them because you only browse far left sources. These are not old or new rights. And it's extremely, extremely unlikely for men to spend one night in jail for big crimes. Some men spend 40+ years in jail when all of a sudden it turned out that he never committed it. That would never happen to a woman.
The amount of prisoners who are innocent is a very small percentage. The amount of rapists who get away with it are much larger. I'm not a leftist, I look at facts. But, being that you brought political labels into this, you just be right winged, so you have a tendency to be biased
@Broken_doll It's actually leftists who are more biased. I am just stating the fact that those who refuse to look at facts and think logically are left wingers.
Women don't have the same physical strength that men do. If you're worried about dying, go be an attorney instead of an underwater welder
@Broken_doll Excuses.My point went over your head, obviously. Listen to yourself.What if men responded like that? If men said worried about rape? Get an attorney, woman. Bothered about low pay compared to men? Complain so clerks make as much as underwater welders.If we followed your logic these jobs would be empty. The point is women will not be equal to me until they step up. You just made excuses why women will never step up.
Do you even know wtf you are arguing about? I said a man does not have to chose a dangerous job like underwater welding, he can be an attorney and your response is "what if men responded like that? you're raped? get an attorney?"Learn to read before jumping to conclusions
@Broken_doll Do you know what you're talking about?If you want equality get off your fucking ass, women! Get with the real jobs!
"if you want equality, get with the real jobs!"Lol that makes no sense. Do you think discrimination is only in fake jobs? 😂
@Broken_doll The jobs that were referenced above. Sometimes you have to point out the obvious to the slow learners.
@coffeewithcream So what are you saying? What jobs are free of sexual discrimination, besides low paying jobs?
@Broken_doll What I said was self evident from reading the above. Twisting it into a pretzel shape for another meaning seems to be an admirable specialty of yours.
No, you said if "you want equality, get off your ass and get with the real jobs." I can't twist it if that's your quote. What "real" jobs are these?
@Broken_doll You don't know how to reference a thread, obviously. No wonder you are broken, doll. It's already been referenced. You're not looking for answers. You're looking for argument.
"what if men said that? Worried about rape? Get an attorney?"Oh, I quoted it right. You obviously didn't read my quote right. I said of you're worried about dying, go BE an attorney instead of an underwater welder, not get an attorney. Men can choose to do whatever job they want. Due to our physical limitations, we can't work these "death" jobs that you speak about. You make it sound like it's women's fault for not choosing a job with a high fatality rate. No, it's biology's choice.
Out of curiosity, what rights have they not had before that they're gaining now? Here in the West I'm not seeing that.
@Tyrael we don't have more rights, he's speaking hypothetically
That's stupid. Men will always dominate in physical strength, it's nice to have doors opened for us
@Broken_doll thank you
It's not necessarily rights, but rather privalleges. In male dominated fields like law, programming or entertainment, it is difficult for a woman to get ahead and she is more disrespected than men. Whereas, in female dominated fields like nursing, the make nurse will get promoted faster and earn more
@Broken_doll The male nurse can move around a 200+ lb. patient easier, too.Someone already mentioned engineering, where men dominate, but women get every advantage. All things being equal the woman gets the job to meet the quota. Just guessing, but there are probably 10 female singers and models to one of their male counterparts.
You don't need a make to move a heavy patient, there are machines for that. Women don't typically choose engineering and when they do, there is still discrimination just like men don't typically choose modeling or singing
@Broken_doll I do believe there is a glass ceiling, but on the entry level side of many professions the ladies have the advantage. I had a woman tell me point blank she wanted to hire a woman when I was scrounging around trying to break into accounting.
how do ladies have the advantage on the entry-level side? just because you heard one woman say that?
Whom we like to avoid like plague.There are plenty good women who know how to live peacefully and treat other person respectfully.
Oh really? What more rights do we have than men?