Why make a rape exception? The baby didn't do anything to deserve death.
@Cryptic-Game I'm sorry I thought I already answered this question . I don't need to explain myself or my answer but thanks
That's wasting a life and is a revenge tactic. The woman is conceiving a child. It doesn't matter if the conception was of her approval or disapproval. The conception is there and as a mother and God fearing woman, you ought to be proud that she is given that responsibility and not stoop to her rapists' level by enacting revenge.
@Cryptic-Game it's called a fetus for a reason not a baby. I won't comment on this again thanks
Science has proven life begins at conception. So thus, a life. Fetus is Latin for baby. Look it up.
@Cryptic-Game it doesn't matter in life begins at conception. It is still a not totally formed and not born human being.
Wrong. Their DNA makes them human even if they aren't fully developed yet into a birth into the world. They are already human as they are human DNA.
@Cryptic-Game no on eis saying they are not human. They are human and alive. Still not a fully formed human being.
Doesn't matter if they are fully formed, their DNA makes them human. A life with a heartbeat in the womb isn't fully formed but they are still human. Should they be aborted? They already have a heartbeat.
@Cryptic-Game yes they should. If they are not wanted their mother should have that right. Do you want a rape victim to carry the rapist child? To have a constant remind of what happened to her on the child's eyes? Do you think the mother will ever love that child?
You don't become human at moment of birth or moment of being fully formed. You become human at conception. The DNA is programmed to deliver growth of a baby, not a walrus, turtle or zebra.
An innocent baby shouldn't be punished for what a man did.If a woman raped a man and he didn't want to be a father, can he decide to have his baby aborted? Why can she force his seed into her and birth a baby but not put an end to it like you think a woman gets to do if raped?
@Cryptic-Game I already answered you that. It's not a fully formed human being and there are many good reasons as to why it shouldn't be born. Among them what I told you that you are not addressing. Do you think it's right for the mother and do you think that child will have a good life?
@Cryptic-Game the child doesn't deserve it but the mother does? The mother is the human being currently here that suffered enough. She has and deserves more rights than a not formed baby.About the female rapist. Yes she can keep it if she wants. It's her body and to force someone to have a surgery, any surgery, is barbaric. But the father doesn't have any legal rights in that situation. Not only she will be arrested but also raise the baby on her own.
What if the woman rapes the man and he doesn't want to be a father? Can he call for his baby's abortion?
The man didn't get to decide which woman got his seed or if he even wanted a woman to get it at all.
@Cryptic-Game and what you want to do? Force a person to have a surgery? That is unthinkable! No law should force someone into a medical procedure under against their will.
But we have circumcision laws that forces it on baby boys.This shows your hypocrisy. That if a man is raped, he can't call for an abortion but women who are raped can use this revenge tactic if she wants.Also, it isn't her body. That's a false claim. It is not her body. It is another's body. Want proof? If a person kills a pregnant woman, he or she is charged with multiple murders. Go choke on that thought, sir!
@ThisIsMyOpinion I appreciate you, but don't waste your time on that one
I don't think his elevator goes to the top
Multiple murders if a murder occurs of a pregnant woman. Can't defend that, eh?
Proof of multiple lives.
What do you mean by my elevator?
@Cryptic-Game yes you do. But that is a not related issue and that is done in the USA and not a lot more developed counties do it.The women that is raped has the right to not keep it. The men that is taped had the right to not have anything to do with it. Both get to never look in the child's face ever. Of course it is! Just like a pregnant mother is charged if she kills her baby in another way! That makes sense because it's not a legislated and legal act. In case of a another person killing both, even if he killed just the baby, he took her baby against the mothers will.
Oh, so mothers can end a life but others can't?Yes I do what? Elevator? No I don't.The fact is a man can be a forced father but a woman can't be a forced mother in your view, if either is raped.So the mother gets to decide if the life of her baby lives or dies? Yep, hypocrisy. I already proved the life was there as multiple murders. The state I'm in punished a woman who gets an abortion: South Carolina. She can face up to 30 years in prison and the man can sue if she aborts for thousands of dollars.
@Cryptic-Game Yes. It's her body her choice.He will be forced a father, but he doesn't have to act like one. As far as he is concerned the woman now in jail and her baby are none of his business. Yes she does. Why is that hypocrisy? It's her body again. Yes it is considered multiple murder because of the way that is done! I also said that if the mother kills her baby in another way she will also be charged. An abortion is a legal act agreed by democratic vote. It has nothing to do with someone picking up a gun and shooting! Not all USA states legalized abortion just like not all European countries have. In mine it is legal, until the third month.
No. It isn't her body. It is another's body. I proved it with the multiple murders being charged if a pregnant woman is killed.Also, men in over 30 States of the 50 can sue a woman who aborts even if it was legally done.So you are sexist. A raped man is a forced father. A raped woman gets to choose whether mother or not. Thinks for the support of sexism.
@Cryptic-Game yes actually it is her body. Murder is not comparable to abortion and I already told you that. No idea why you keep bringing it up.Fine let them sue. She did it legally. Do you want women to be forced to abort is that it?
@ThisIsMyOpinion I'm telling you he's not the full ticket. You're debating with someone who isn't capable of understanding. He's probably never touched one let alone understand one. You can't fix stupid
@WowwGirl you are probably right.
Something isn't there something isn't normal trust me. The reputation alone says so
Touched one what? Women? I've touched women before.It is not her body. The fact that people can be charged with multiple murders of a pregnant woman proves that there is another life besides her own.I'm not stupid. If something isn't right about me, then tell me and not guess there is.
It is comparable. Science has verified life begins at conception. Therefore, if the life is intentionally killed, that's murder by its legal definition. They are human. Any intelligent person knows you are human if your DNA is human. Human DNA equals human.
@Cryptic-Game Yes she doe means women.Again even women are charged with a crime if they kill their baby in any way else besides abortion. The law considers them different cases. Nowomen is charged with murder if she aborts in a place where abortion is legal. But she will be charged if she kills her baby in any other way anywhere. The law doesn't consider it the same.Compare murder to abortion? Are you mental? One is a human being taking alife out of another already born human being by force! with no valid reasons The other is a stoping a person from being born for many good reasons!
So what what the law says. The law says many backward stuff. It is not moral.So to you, you're not human until birth? Yep, science has proven that wrong. You're human if DNA is human and both are murder as both are human and both are intentional killing and not accidental killing.
Why would it matter if I touched a woman or not tho? Even if I haven't, it wouldn't make my point less credible
@Cryptic-Game are you really saying screw the law after trying to use to as your argument?It is a human, but it doesn't have the same rights and a live and already born human has.
I said science has proven, not the law has declared.
Thanks, so you just said it is human, thus making it a life. Therefore, it is murder,
😂😂😂 where are you from?
Whitmire, South Carolina.
@Cryptic-Game Science proves it is a living organism at conception, the law says you can abort it regardless. Law wins.It is alive, but not yet born. Again law doesn't consider it murder because it's totally different from taking a already living human being. Tell me do you support death penalty? Do you consider that murder?
Yes but that's not killing an innocent human. That's killing for committing a crime. If you want to play the law game, then it ain't murder. Murder is the unlawful killing. If the death sentence occurs, it was a lawful killing, even if you feel it is unjust.You support it too. If a man raped your 7 year old daughter, you'd want him killed.So it doesn't matter what the law says. Science wins over the law. Science declares them human at conception.
@Cryptic-Game yes I do support death penalty. And I also support abortion. I do think that taking a life is moral under certain circumstances. Actually the law rules. You have to obey the law.
But taking an innocent life isn't moral, which you are for.
@Cryptic-Game you don't understand and you won't so just drop it
I do understand. Science has proven that we are human by our DNA. Quit being a wuss and start accepting science.
@Cryptic-Game You and me think differently of the value of a yet to born human over an already born one.
@Cryptic-Game oh darling I'm 99 things and a wuss ain't one.
Regardless, they are still human and thus, a life.I'm your darling?
@Cryptic-Game you sure your from S. Carolina? I call almost everyone love, dear , and darling. It's very common in the south for people to do that.
Yes. Want to see my drivers license or text my cell as proof?
Flower7 and MzAsh also live in South Carolina.
@Cryptic-Game and I call both love and dear and they know I mean nothing by it.
@Agape93 isn't even from the South I call her my love all the time and she knows I'm not hitting on her. It just mean my friend or my buddy it's a term of endearment
I call the asker those things and he's married. I call everyone that stuff kids even
Agape93 hates me.So I'm your friend?
@Cryptic-Game I really don't know you well enough to say and I doubt Agape cares enough to hate you
She has my account blocked, thus you are wrong. She hates me.Also, you can know me better. I did a MyTake about me.
@Cryptic-Game Why does she hates you? I know her too.
Ask her. She never told me why. She has my account blocked. She is a Satanist. You can tell by her profile picture.
@Cryptic-Game she's not a Satanist... And she is laid back so you said a lot of bs if she blocked you.. I promise
Watch yourself labeling people that's my friend. I won't let you just be slandering her
Look at her profile picture. It is a Satanic saying that Satanists abide by. I'd tell her so myself. Ask her why she hates me.She never even warned me of anything. I've never had an encounter with her and went to reply to her one day and couldn't.
You shouldn't be slandering women period you should be above that. Men don't put women down they have pride. You are not southern ! I call bs. Men don't act like that here. Men fight men
You ought to date WadeDanielSmith. You'll like him.
You put women and men down all the time. You put me down by saying I haven't touched a woman.Regardless, the saying is Satanic. Read it and you'll see that.
BS it doesn't mean that even if it did so what..And I'm not friends with men who fight women. That's ridiculous and only humiliated men fight women. I suggest if you're a man you act like one and stay out of Women's buisness.
How ain't I southern? I can prove I am by showing my drivers license.
Stop acting like a bitch
@Cryptic-Game I have no idea if she is a satanist or not, but I know she is not a bad person. But she is strongly opiniated. You probably said something she didn't liked.
Becaues southern men have manners and don't treat women like that. They have pride. I'm done speaking with you because I don't argue with men I will block you too
Talk to the asker. Ask him if it's okay to fight with women.. he's a man
Then why do you act like one?You're a hypocrite. You tell me to behave a way you wouldn't act yourself.I fight men and women. I'm not sexist.You attack men and women too, don't you?
You butt into men and women's businesses.
Again I'm not arguing with a grown man
Real women don't fight women or men either.
You hypocrite. You ain't a real woman. Real women don't fight men or women.So if a woman spits in my face, I'm suppose to not report her to cops like I would a man?
@skeetskeetskeet tell this cat to stop attacking women please. I've told him several times I'm not arguing with a grown manHe needs a man to speak with... So please
I'm not arguing with a grown woman. Seems I'm arguing with a little girl.
I got you my love
@Cryptic-Game Dude why are you acting up? She is not attacking you!Keep it up and I will get out of my question.
@skeetskeetskeet thank you
@ThisIsMyOpinion thank you too
@skeetskeetskeet 😂😂😂 he doesn't want to talk to you
I dont kbiw why. . im so nice
Do as you please. That woman threatened a woman off this site by bullying her daughter and caused her to leave. She threatened a user named SydneySentinel. You didn't know about that, did you?She is afraid to stand up for herself. So she gets other members to do it for her.
@skeetskeetskeet just a pure gentleman my dear
You can't man up and speak to a man? Just flex on me?
Yeah I fight women absolutely and I'm not scared I know my place
And you let him say evil things about me. He said I should have been murdered. That's evil to say and is a member post.
@Cryptic-Game why you talking to me? Talk to him
Nah you wouldn't
Enjoy your evening
@skeetskeetskeet 😂😂😂 everything you said they jerked.
I wanted at @Agape93 to see the cow piss comment. She would have loved it and I learned something
@ThisIsMyOpinion did you take the cow photo down?
That's not cool that was funny
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Excuse the mistakes, autocorrect’s acting weird today.
@panther0008 I would give you MHO now if I could. Manly because you mentioned the main reasons why I am pro choice. First it should be up to the woman individual choice. Every woman should have that option. Second, what most pro lifer's forget, is what happens after an unwanted baby is born. That child can be unwanted for many reasons. Convinced during a one night stand, broken condom, very young and immature parents, poor parents with a difficult social and economic situation, the person simply doesn't desire kids, the father run away, rape,... It's a very long list! All of those will bring the world a child to the hands of not able, struggling, immature and lacking parents that more often that not will resent the child. The government want to force the child to be born, but they are not the ones that have to take care of it after! If the parents know that they will not be able not give the child a happy life or not be happy themselves for a multitude of reasons they should have the choise. It's the best for everyone including the baby.
Thank you! Totally agree. Most of my discussions with pro lifers can be summed up in this conversation: pro life “abortion is murder”me “then would you be okay with adopting the child that someone wanted to abort”pro life 1: “no, they should have thought about that before having sex”me “this is moral hypocrisy”pro life 2 “i would”me “you’re 56 Karen when are you going to adopt”pro life 2 “i have to raise my own kids and grandkids first”me “again, moral hypocrisy”
@panther0008 they sit in that "life begins at conception" argument and ride it for as long as they can. Thing is they forget that life still continues after birth. So if the woman wanted to abort she and the father now have a human in hands under a very complicated situation.
This is not the United States
This is the Internet where people from all countries happen to be
@-Asca- Most people from other countries can fuck off. They are very backwards on social issues
@NorthwestRider European countries are not backwards on social issues. Many have legalized abortion by now.
What does that mean?
A pregnant woman can have an abortion if she does not want to be a parent, which is the reason behind the vast majority of abortions. But a man has no such right. He should be able to wash his hands of all legal and financial parental responsibilities.
I am not sure if I agree with that. I think it would depend on the case.
Why should women have the right to choose to not be a parent but men shouldn't?
I agree with you, but doing that wouldn't give men that are simply irresponsible or the ones that get cold feet and decide they don't want to be fathers after all a way out?
Why should women get to do that but not men?
Because they are the ones carrying the baby. We can't force them to abort. I get what you are saying and it is unfair. Yes it is. But what can we do? We are not the ones that get pregnant.
What can we do? Change the law. It's actually quite simple.
We can't just give any men the option to not care for a child that is about to arrive. Women have the choice to not be mothers after they are pregnant. Both men and women have responsibilities once the baby is born.
Men should have the right to legally and financially "abort" early in the pregnancy when the women can still choose to have an abortion. That is the closest thing we can get to fairness, and it's the right thing to do.
Then the child is born with just one parent. That would push much more women to abort.
I'm not sure what your point was there?
The child having just one parent isn't the most ideal situation.
Women having more rights than men is also not an ideal situation.
If an abortion is on the table we are already not in the ideal situation. Its not like I don't get what you are saying and it is fair. But tell me that option to choose to dismiss themselves from any responsibilities to the baby would apply to all and any man? No matter the situation?
Under what circumstances do you feel it should not apply, and why?
For example in cases where the couple already has a child and the father wants out. He already has a family, had sex with his wife and it happened. No right to walk away from that child if the wife chooses to have it.
In those circumstances, if she has the right to choose abortion against his will, why should he not have the right to "financially abort"?
Because one thing is to decido to have the child or not. That is up to her since it's her body. Another is to refuse responsibilities from the baby you help to conceive.
After the baby is born both parents have obligations to him. Women and men are no different in that part. They can chose if they have it or not. Yes but it is their body nothing to do about that. It's their choice.
Yes, it is her decision about whether to have the child or have an abortion, but if he tells her early in the pregnancy that he does not want to be the father of the child, then she can choose whether she wants to abort or have the child without his support. That allows her to make an informed decision, and consequences of that decision are completely up to her.That is fair, and I have no doubt we as a society will evolve to that point sometime in the future. The only question is how long it will take for people to let go of their outdated concepts about parental rights and do the right thing for both women AND men. Abortion rights were a big step that took a very long time to achieve. As it stands right now, only the rights and needs of women are considered in our barbaric outdated legal system.Everyone deserves the right to choice, not just women.
Well men do have a choice. They have a choice of having safe sex.
Yep, and women have the same choice. Yet women also have the option of deciding not to be a parent after conception. Men have no such option, and they should. They will no doubt have that right ion the future, but it's just sad how long it takes people to let go of their age-old old traditional sexism.
The women have that right because the baby develops in their bodies. Well time will tell. Feminists will fight that with all they have.
I understand that, but it's not a valid argument for men not having the right to a financial abortion.Her body; her choice.His money; his choice.Yes, feminists will certainly fight it because it's a men's rights issue, and despite what they claim, feminism has no interest in helping men. On the contrary, they fight against men's rights.
Wait! The issue here is money? Not the fact that he will become a father?
It's obviously both, as I said early in our exchange. Did you miss that?
Why is money part of the issue here?
Why wouldn't it be? It costs on average more than a quarter million dollars to raise a child.
That is something both parents have to support.
Of course, but only if there is a child for whom they are responsible. Women have the right to choose whether there is a child for whom they are responsible, and men do not, which is unfair and completely fixable. That was the point all along.
That will give freedom for many men to leave even after they also convinced the child on their free will.
No. As I've said repeatedly, I only support the right of a man to "financially abort" early in the pregnancy when the mother still also has the option to abort.
Sorry, I may have misunderstood your last comment. You said "convinced the child", but I think what you meant is "conceived" the child. Let me know if that's not correct.Either way, if doesn't matter because the same is true for women and yet they have the right to abort the child if they change their mind.The point of all this is fairness and justice for both men and women. Currently women have that and men do not. That needs to change. I know it's a major paradigm shift for most people because the traditional views are so deeply ingrained in everyone, they just don't realize that's what they are. We need to shift our thinking to include equal reproductive rights for BOTH genders, not just women's. EVERYTHING about reproductive rights is still viewed through a gynocentric lens.If feminism was truly what it claims to be, there is no way it should argue against what I'm saying here. The rights and needs of both women and men should be given equal consideration in this issue.
I actually like this part "I only support the right of a man to "financially abort" early in the pregnancy when the mother still also has the option to abort."But still that will give opportunity to fathers, who agreed to have the child, to leave if they damn well wanted. That is just not right.
Yes I meant "conceived". My bad English is not my main language and I relly on auto corrector for some words.
Your English is much better than my Portuguese. lolTo your point about it giving the opportunity to fathers, who agreed to have the child, to leave... the same is already true of women; they can change their minds about whether they want to keep the child or abort it, and there is nothing the father can do about it... he has zero rights in the matter. How is that any more right or fair?Giving the father the right to decide early in the pregnancy that he doesn't want any of the responsibilities (or rights, of which there aren't many for men) of being a parent, when the mother can still make a decision that is informed by the father's choice... that is fair. She can still make whatever choice she wants. Her body; her choice. But she cannot force her choice on the father and make him a parent against his will.Your argument here is based solely on what is best for the mother, without any consideration for what is best for the father. My proposal is a fair compromise that addresses both. If women have the legal right to abort a father's child without his consent because they don't want to be a parent, fathers should also have the legal right to choose not to be a parent while still giving the mother the ability to exercise her choice. That is fair.
So both sides would have the opportunity to not have anything to do with the child. Even while the baby hasn't even been born yet. But on that case only one could have no responsibility after the baby was born. It is unfair to men that women can chose to have it or not. But it's not fair for the baby to only be provided by one parent. Yet I have to agree it's not a fair situation for men to be in. But one can change her mind while there is no child
"But on that case only one could have no responsibility after the baby was born."Only if she decides to keep the child. She can certainly choose to abort if she doesn't want to be a single parent.You seem to be more concerned here with making sure a man doesn't avoid responsibility than you are about fairness and justice. I really don't get the impression you have any concern for the welfare of fathers in this issue. Why is that?
To be honest my father left not long before my mother was pregnant with me. Cheated on her and after divorce he never was part of either mine or my older sister's lives. He actively fought in court to have zero responsabilities and contact with us.My mother got him to pay a fraction of the child support he was due and that was it.
So you want to punish all men for your father's sins. OK.
Not at all! I said that I agree with you when you say that is not fair for the father when a mother coses to keep the child on certain circunstances. My onpy point is that is not fair for the baby either.
The baby is one party in a group of three. Current laws only address the needs of two of them. There is no good reason for that beyond tradition and sexism.
Isn't the baby why the current law doesn't allow the father to dismiss his responsibilities?
You mean the same baby the mother has the legal right to kill in her womb?
Again, you seem to be much more focused on the rights and interests of everyone except the man, which seems odd coming from a man. I would expect that to some degree from a woman, who sees things from a female perspective, but it's interesting coming from a man.
I can't argue that neither situation is ideal. It's hard to find a solution that prevents men from leaving and women from trapping men.In Portugal women can only abort until the third month. Let men only leave until that time too would be a good solution. A time limit for both.
Thank you. That's exactly what I've been suggesting.
Sounds fair to me.
Cool.By the way, where do you live in Portugal? I visited there last year and loved it. We took a river cruise from Porto up the Douro River to the border with Spain. It was beautiful and I enjoyed the people and the food.
I am from Porto and I already swam in Douro many times! Great to know that you were here and that you liked. Modestly aside turistis usually like the people and the food.Where are you from?
I am from California. What is your favorite restaurant in Porto?
Depends on what I want to eat. I really like Maia Steakhouse for example.
What's the best place to get a good Francesinha with a glass of Vinho Verde?
Oh so you have heard of them! "Cervejaria Brasão" in Aliados is one of my favorite spots.
Yes, we spent a day in Porto before starting the cruise. I don't remember the names of the restaurants we ate in but we had Francesinha and drank lots of Vinho Verde in Porto and other towns upriver. I would like to go back some time. I'll remember Cervejaria Brasão. Thanks for the recommendation.
Anytime. We love to receive people here.
Im pro cow piss
Lol that was hilarious