I'm not against traditional martial arts; I think karate is awesome. However, kung fu appears to be absolutely worthless as a self-defense system. I know many styles of king fu exist, but they all appear to use odd (and ineffective) movements. In the early days of MMA (which was then called "NHB"), the kung fu guys always got beat up. In modern MMA, you almost never see kung fu.
I mean, it's a bit pointless having a debate about this, because people obviously have their own opinion, and dare I say, prejudices.
You just have to remember that MMA is a sports fighting context. Now you will always excel in the context that you train in. If you can do planche pushups and one armed pushups, the guy that has trained for the same amount of time in bench presses will probably always beat the other guy at bench pressing. In the same way, fighting in that environment, it requires a certain amount of skills and conditioning for that context.
As someone that practices Kung fu, and also does sparring and wrestling, the fact is, doing those latter two things, they're in effect different skills, and I don't use kung fu in them, barely at all. Does that mean that kung fu doesn't work? Well, in genuine fighting, you could actually seriously harm someone fairly quickly, if your intent is fighting all out, let's say you feel you are in mortal danger. There are parts of the body that you can't start hitting all out, and limbs simply snap when you twist or put pressure on them from a certain direction. Take the knee. You might say, well, in a real fight, no one is going to leave themselves open to having someone stomp or put pressure on the knee from the outside. The point is, kung fu fighters are adaptable, if they see that opportunity, then they will take it, and the knee will collapse fairly easily. But you can't do that in an MMA fight. The other thing is, the kung fu fighters want to close the gap and bridge. You can't do that with gloves. And you can't do that with sports fighting because in reality a fight should be over fairly quickly, if you're going all out.
The other thing is, tremendous respect to MMA fighters, they're well conditioned and pragmatic. And kung fu fighters could learn a lot by incorporating a lot from that training. Also, to give credence to what you say. Actually, a lot of kung fu practitioners are shit. My kung fu instructor himself used to say that 99% of MMA guys could beat kung fu guys. The martial art is just the tool. It's up to the person to make something useful and practical out of it. To condition himself fully, to toughen himself, to strengthen himself, to spar, to wrestle, to fight with people who will put him under genuine pressure. It's just basic common sense. The guy above looks to be demonstrating some kind of throw. But just putting your arms up like that is not actually throwing. To get good at something, you need to train against pressure 1000s of time. Forms just demonstrate some archetypes or ideas. About 10% is practical, much of it is interesting but you couldn't pull most of it off. You need to spar and wrestle against pressure to see what will work. Most Kung fu practitioners are crap because they don't do this. They just go through forms. spiritually cogitate, and expect to be able to fight. But if people use the tools properly... I've been on the receiving end. And some of those guys are fucking tough. And a lot of them had come to kung fu at the end of the road after having studying myriads of supposedly more practical martial arts. Many of them were boxers, thai, karate practitioners. They obviously saw some merit in it.
Now, I would take self defense to mean actual situations on the street. Most of it is either idiots shooting their mouths off. Or the MMA context which, as I say, most of them are far toughter than the average kung fu guy - so respect to them, but still a sporting context. I think in a genuine self defense context, my stuff is practical and nasty as hell.
Besides, it's not like other better regarded arts are perfect either. All this fucking bullshit of knife and gun disarmament in krav maga. Going to the ground in jui jitsu. There's also a lot of rehearsing of overly elaborate things that clearly wouldn't work in those kinds of arts, too.
The main thing in situations like that is keeping your head and trying to avoid ego fights where you absolutely can. That's where I think some kind of spiritual development tools are useful. I also don't like all this still beating people when they're clearly out in MMA. This is very low behaviour, in my opinion.
Everything has its place (I guess), but I just don't think in a street fight or an MMA contest, kung fu is a good choice. Does that mean I don't respect what they do? No, most kung fu practitioners can do things I can't. Replying to another commenter, I was candid about karate/MMA bias, so you do have a point of sorts. However, my biased opinion wasn't just pulled out of thin air; I've seen what works, and I've seen plenty of what doesn't work.
Well, sadly kung fu has a very low image. I've seen a lot of those videos on youtube, too, and it looks bad. But bear in mind, things aren't always as they seem. About a few percent of kung fu instructors and practitioners are really fucking good. But that's not a sufficiently high enough percentage to inspire any kind of confidence from outside observers. But it should show, in my opinion, that it can be highly effective. Sadly, its own practitioners have let itself down. In the same way there a lot of very poor mcdojos in general, to be fair. I do think every art has its advantages and its shortfalls. There's things I don't like in karate (just looking on the surface), but there is no way I would like to be on the receiving end of those blows, which look devastating (incidentally, I bought a makiwara, that I really should install - this looks interesting too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyd1aHE5H4c) Also, there's a focus in kung fu on athletics, almost gymnastics movements, too. Nice to be able to do, but pretty much no direct relevance to fighting. Kung fu Wushu is what the Chinese government pushes. As you know, there was a purge of the practical combative side there, and many fled to such counties as Taiwan.
Karate had a bad name for a long time, too; I blame this on the abundance of karate schools that focus on "point fighting" and lack of hard sparring. However, when karate is trained in a manner similar to kickboxing, it proves itself to be valid. When I see kung fu, the problem is with the techniques alone; I'm not convinced that bad schools are responsible.
Again, real fighting is not sports fighting. You can't castrate someone and then expect them to demonstrate anything worthwhile. Most people who are actually decent people don't want to permanently harm people. If you want me to step into a ring, then I probably won't perform too well, because I don't have sufficient experience. If someone is trying to kill me, then you can bet my response will be totally different. If you want to get into real fights, then your attitude should always be that you can kill someone. That's not some mystical woo he-man shit, you see it all the time. People bang their heads and it is over. Anyone with any kind of moral character does his best to avoid all the ego shit.
This does get conflated with the fact that 99% of practitioners are indeed, shit.
If you don't have any respect for the art, then that's fine and totally justifiable. Unfortunately, kung fu practitioners have to live with this. The best thing one can do is to focus on their individual training and get better, and avoid all this kind of thing.
Let's start with some basics, first the ring is not the ultimate test of a martial art, in fact I would argue that MMA is a complete degradation of martial arts, and shows a false neritive. I have lots of friends who fight or train fighters in MMA, but it's training for a specific set of circumstances. One on one, no weapons with the goal of subduing your opponent. And MMA training has become specialized for this environment.
Second kung fu is a generic term for mastery in Chinese, it is not specific to fighting. 中國武術 zhōngguó wǔshù is the term for "martial arts" in Chinese and even THAT is a generic term. What most people think of when they hear the term "Kung Fu" is actually Shaolin Kung Fu and it was designed for a number of things that you do not see in the ring. One is weapons, another is multiple opponents and third and probably foremost is self discipline and self mastery. Except for, maybe, combat style Tai Chi, you will not find an art that gets in to you the way Kung Fu does, makes you dig deep into yourself.
The ring may not be the ultimate test, but I couldn't imagine doing "trapping hands" in a bar fight, either. However, I do get your point.
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Not if you know what your doing but in most cases people will get their ass beat because no one fights like that but it could be beneficial if you know what your doing
I took it for a few months when I was like 9 years old, for whatever that’s worth. 80s kid, saw The Karate Kid, wanted in on Elisabeth Shue and beating up Cobra Kais, pretty stereotypical for guys our age, haha. So I got my dad to sign me up but there was no karate studio nearby, only Kung Fu. I liked it upon getting the uniform, because all the belts were black, so I’m like “awwww shit, people are gonna think I’m a black belt!” lmao. But the classes were so fucking boring. We spent the first 15 minutes or so just doing some goofy breathing exercise and I’m trying to stay awake. Then after a month you were eligible for fighting class, a second session after the normal one. I was kicked out of that like the second week in because I bloodied some other kid’s nose, and I was just like “what the fuck, I came here to fight and you’re telling me I can’t punch this kid in the face? FUCK THIS.” So I decided I’d rather stay home and watch Saturday morning cartoons, so we didn’t re-up when the membership was up. Started playing football the next year and that closed the book on martial arts for me. But now I’m kind of thinking of getting into karate or something, just for the discipline of it and all that. Just trying to see if they have adult classes somewhere so I’m not with a bunch of little kids like an asshole lmfao. I think they’re out there, I did check one website and saw some adult members, although the dudes looked like absolute knobs, lmao. So we’ll see, but I definitely have Kung Fu ruled out, might as well take Tai Chi if was gonna do that, haha.
It is my understanding that Kung Fu isn't an actual martial art in itself but rather a collection of different disciplines. Even so, I'm not partial to them. Arts like Karate, taekwondo, Jeet Kun Do, etc. They tend to appear as the, "all flash and no fury" sort. A lot of fancy twirling around and flexible body movements, impressive to look at but perhaps not as effective in actual combat as action movies would have us believe.
A lot of people learn karate to feel like they can fend for themselves fully, but it doesn't take much effort for me to merely stop an attempt to kick me sideways mid-air and spin his leg around, tripping him over on his own move. And I don't think that someone, however skilled in some marital art, would have much to put up against a man like Hafthór Julius Björnsson, (the Mountain in Got). A man like that can take blows from objects or people twice his size and keep going, so intricate and numerously placed jabs while jumping around with your, "hiyaas" will do you little good. One slip, and someone of brute strength takes down a martial arts adherent.
Yeah that's fair enough. I just think that to in actuality be fully equipped to fend off any attacker you'd have to be a Master, like a Shaolin munk or the like. Otherwise, the basics of assorted martial arts aren't really that difficult to counter from someone who knows a thing or two about regular fighting.
People are stupid, not skills. And I'm not just talking about kung fu. A punch for example, everyone throws different punches, power, speed, etc. But the biggest difference is the brain—How you use the punch. Almost all kinds of kung fu stopped developing themselves hundreds, or thousands years ago, that's why they "always got beat up", but I don't think you should give the kung fu fighters you saw in MMA a hard time, ture they fight stupidly, but at least they're trying to keep up. Speaking of MMA fighters, they all fight stupidly to me, I nearly can't watch MMA anymore, cause every time I do, I have the urge to tell them "THAT'S NOT HOW YOU SHOULD FIGHT!" And there's something else: not all martial arts are for fighting.
Yeah dude I'm Chinese and I agree with you. I once read a story that some Chinese martial artists were fighting against some Thai kick boxers. They easily got their asses whooped.
Chinese martial artists were all focused on philosophy and tai chi and crap while Thai boxers actually worked on being extremely strong. Chinese Kung Fu is useless in terms of actual fighting. I'm not an expert on this stuff though that is just my impression.
I've noticed that as MMA gains popularity in China, a generation of MMA fighters have emerged from China, and almost none of them use kung fu. Thanks for your input, bro!
Gong Fu is an umbrella term for everything that someone needs training to master. As for the martial arts, there are huge amount of styles, which from part of those all the Japanese martial arts developed and inherited to the MMA. The origins are from Chinese Gong Fu styles. Some are more artistic or inner martial arts like the Tai Chi or Wushu, and some are more practical like Wing Chun, Ba Gua. I do Shaolin styles and we practice a lot of every aspect, and clearly suits for combat and street fight.
I have being going to a Taekwondo Dojo with my brother and nephew, for about a year. Korean Martial arts. A lot of kicking, but not so much blocking and punching, with the Master I know. I respect Aikido, and wish I could find a Dojo for that, for the 'Balance of Force' and using the opponent's force against himself, to restore 'Balance', Steven Segal! I don't really know much of Kung Fu, but probably not like the movies!!
VS russian, well hard to say, generally people play kung fu I think that is kinda stupid but know kung fu's spirit.. I think white's fight may not be flexiblehttps://www.youtube.com/embed/yRx7uiUi8VM
That looked kind of "fake" to me, and I'm not really sure what kind of a contest that was. I didn't see either one of them doing anything that looked very practical. However, I will admit that the guy who "won" displayed a level of athleticism that could major him dangerous even in a pillow fight.
They are the forces who protect communism leaders, so it is not surprised china would take out kung fu but it usually become like jackie chan. well about fighting I found there are seeds to form art. so each nations may be different. I understand looking fake beside them but basically, it is useless to hit people's muscles.
All martial arts as a self defense mechanism are fundamentally flawed. They are based on someone of equal knowleadge fightining you
There are many variations of Kung Fu. If you want to learn self defense you want to try something like Krav Maga which was tailored and designed specifically for more real world based scenarios; granted with a military foundation
My knowleadge is also limited. But it was created for and used by the isralei special forces and is a fighting style not a martial art
It deals with scanerios just as disarming someone who has a knife or a gun. Remember this was originally a military only fighting style
If you were to break it down id say its more of a MMA style as it incorperates elements from multiple schools of martial arts. But again its not in itself a martial art
There was a Krav Maga guy named Moti Horenstein in the early days of the UFC. Unfortunately, they kind of stacked the deck against him by having his only 2 UFC fights be against Mark Coleman and Mark Kerr. Some time after being in the UFC, he did pick up a win against a mid-level fighter named Pat Smith (who was also previously in the UFC).
Krav Maga in the cage makes no sense. There's a huge difference between sport fighting and real world fighting. Krav Maga is really about fighting "dirty" and "winning" by any means. Once you add in rules it's not reall effective.
I agree that some of the more artsy styles like Kung Fu are not so great in combat like the MMA. Tai Chi is another one. However, Kung Fu as most Martial Arts does have its merits... the kicks, hand techniques, etc. are all very valid. Taekwondo borrowed a few of the movements back when it was being developed.
So I don't think Kung Fu is stupid. Maybe not as practical.
I don't even know how to respond to this. There are a few forms of Kung Fu which are more showy than others, but the Chinese didn't take their sweet-ass time developing those systems to ward off pool noodle-wielding morons. MMA is a cute little sport with rules; Kung Fu is intended to kill people, not score points. You can't even practice spar with some of those styles because they have no retreating moves. Look up something called "Jook Lum."
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John_Doesnt | 160 opinions shared on Sports topic.
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In its original meaning, kung fu can refer to any discipline or skill achieved through hard work and practice, not necessarily martial arts. The Chinese literal equivalent of "Chinese martial art" would be 中國武術 zhōngguó wǔshù
Kung Fu is essentially any martial art. And Neo knows Kung Fu!He is the ONE
Kung fu is not actually all about flipping and stuff. That's the stereotypical one but they still work like karate. But after all the karate or talking about is the modified one not the traditional one. Most of the martial arts today are already modified.
I know a traditional kung fu can lose ring against an MMA fighter but also because MMA is a newer martial art. It's less traditional from the kung fu unless the kung fu is modified with mixed mechanics just like karate today.
Karate has practical movements/attacks/defenses, but I just don't see that in kung fu. I will say, kung fu appears to have a lot of healthy practices associated with it, but in a street fight -- it looks like a guaranteed way to get beat up. There is no history of kung fu practitioners having a wealth of success in MMA. Aikido is the same way, but they can an at least make the argument that "pressure point" techniques are universally banned in MMA.
Is just that it depends on how you use it but kung fu has a lot of moves. It has a lot of defense mechanism. It just depends if you're going to use it the traditional style or the modern way.
I'm a bit biased in favor of karate; I even go so far as to say it's more effective than Muay Thai. I know that's a VERY unpopular opinion in most MMA circles.
Of course it is studied that MMA always win because it has no rules. But saying kung fu is not applicable is maybe for you but you also can lose to a kung fu martial artist.
I'm trying really hard not to sound like a "keyboard warrior" type of guy here, but I can honestly say that I've never seen a kung fu guy who scared me -- and this includes the very few who competed in MMA/NHB.
genericname85 | 121 opinions shared on Sports topic.
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i think pretty much no martial art can help you against a sucker punch... because human reaction time is just not fast enough, no matter how much you know about fighting.
Sure, they're very fit -- but do you really think all that "trapping hands" nonsense is going to work against a decent fighter? I think not. Some styles of kung Fu may have health benefits, but they're not useful at all in an actual fight.
I think Wing chun kung fu focuses on trapping hands stuff but I think Shaolin Kung fu focus on it that much. Wing Chun Kung fu is an sub part of kung fu I think but I'm not sure. Wing chun kung fu has flaws and Bruce lee saw it but he uses trapping hands to an extent on Jeet Kun Do. So I guess trapping hands can be useful in real fighting.
How the person train, his mindset, his fighting experience matters than the style he use to fight.
From my understanding, JKD is just Bruce Lee's modified version of Wing Chun. Bruce Lee actually admitted that someone well-versed in boxing and wrestling would beat someone using the martial arts of his time. Whether or not people have taken that comment out of context is something I don't know, since I'm not sure what the context was.
Bruce Lee must have admitted weakpoints on Wing Chun Kung Fu but he didn't completely discard it.
To develop JKD he inspired not only by wing chun, but also BJJ, taekwondo, boxing judo, fencing and many other martial arts. He also said that JKD never stops growing. It's all about formlessness and adaptation. I've read " Tao of Jeet Kun Do" by Bruce lee and he says that to be a good fighter his/her form should be formlessness and his rhythem should be rhythemlessness.
From what I understand, Bruce Lee was anything but a hardcore traditionalist. I believe if he were alive today, he'd have more interest in modern combat styles than anything associated with Wing Chun.
You're clinging to the myth of a man that I will admit was nothing short of brilliant, and keeping it real with you, I've never seen a kung fu guy that scared me.
Okay, then tell me where I'm wrong. I see unnatural (downright forced) stances in every style of kung fu I've seen. The strikes make no sense to me, and the "trapping hands" stuff looks comical. I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but I remain unconvinced of kung fu's validity in a real fight. I think there are certain exercises associated with kung fu culture/philosophy that are valid. For example, Bruce Lee was into isometric contraction training, and this style of exercise is the "meat and potatoes" of my workout.
I'm no longer interested in talking to you. I just saw your Question on Transexuals. You are a guy that likes Transexuals and was saying every straight guy would sleep with that one particular Trans guy which is not true
You misquoted what I actually said, anyway -- but it doesn't matter. You obviously have issues. Now go back to your Bruce Lee movies and dreams of being something other than a sexually-insecure "keyboard warrior."
Please. I thought maybe you were a tough guy according to your pic and you were maybe into fighting. After reading your question I lost all respect for you and you creeped me out
I don't shy away from controversial topics, especially when they're RELEVANT to things going on in today's society; to do so, would be cowardly. The fact that it made you that uncomfortable only reassures me that it was a good question. I'm not out to offend anyone, but I definitely like asking questions (and sharing opinions) that most people wouldn't dare to.
That doesn't make much sense; a gay guy is attracted to men and masculinity. Using your logic, it would be "straight" to sleep with a bearded, muscled-up female-to-male transgender -- just because they were assigned female at birth.
I said VIRTUALLY any straight man. Do you understand the meaning of the word VIRTUALLY? I'm saying the overwhelming majority would; with that being said, not many would admit to it.
Give me a break dont go twisting and turning my words around I'm talking about what you said. You made the thread and said what you said. I didn't say it. You make tough guy threads and pose like a tough guy in your pic but yet you come up with TRANSEXUAL weird stuff like he is the hottest thing around. You lose all repect and credibility and its gay if in fact if you really would sleep with that guy. I basically wanted to wrap it up and get out of here but yet you keep me coming back here trying to explain yourself and throw weird things out there
1) This thread has 0 to do with trans-people (or sexuality). 2) I simply challenged you on how you misquoted me and your overall ignorance. 3) If you wanted to debate this, I don't know why you didn't do so on the post that bothered you so much; once again, this is completely off the topic of this post.
Why do you resort to name-calling? You know why I don't want to talk to you. Obviously you know nothing about martial arts or UFC and real life street fighting. Martial arts are a different styles of discipline techniques. There's more to it than just throwing your fist around and taking him down. Obviously you don't know Kung Lee the global strike force cage fighter and elite xc on showtime even KIMBO SLICE Fought on that promotion a few years back. If anybody's ignorant you are the ignorant one. It's after 6 in the morning your totally wasting my time don't call me back here anymore. You are insulting and offencive to any martial artist in the country. You have no right to insult there style of fighting. Why don't you challenge one of them that's a serious competitor to three 5 minute rounds and see how far you go?
You're the one being insulting and completely off-topic. You know almost nothing about me, yet you want to tell me what I don't know about fighting/MMA. Well, something I do know is how Cung Le is actually spelled. Dude, at this point I just hope you're just trolling.
You got a lot of nerve to tell me I'm trolling after I've been here for nine years and I don't give a crap how you spell his name you know nothing about martial arts you insult every one of those people. The fact that you danced around the real question on what's up with your other question was disgusting to me thats why I didn't want to get into all this martial arts debate because of it. Don't call me back here again
You're beyond annoying; you decided to talk about a completely different question I posted, and once again, you're the one who came with the disrespect. If you're so fixated on that question, you should've commented on it; this question has absolutely NOTHING to do with that one.
You posted back a long post and wanted me to get into a debate with you and I just read your other question and I didn't any longer want to talk to you. I just told you the truth. But you kept bringing me back in here talking and talking. For the last time I'm done here
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