Do you think it is fair that due to Pete Rose gambling on baseball games that he is not in the Baseball Hall of Fame?

Question

Pete Rose had a prolific MLB career and is clearly 1 of the 10 best baseball players of all-time. He is 1st or 2nd in many offensive categories, including 1st in all-time hits at 4256.

I think that his off the field troubles shouldn't have to be considered whether he gets in or not. He didn't use any steroids to cheat like so many others. Not being in due to drugs is fair as it gives unfair advantage but his was due to gambling.

Please share if you think it is fair or unfair!

It is very fair

It is fair

It is very unfair

It is unfair

Select age and gender to cast your vote:

GirlGuy

Answer 1

Claireluvskaren

Yoda

I love baseball, ever since I was a little girl. My grandfathers loved baseball, my father loves baseball, my brother loves baseball. So it is a family thing. This debate can be argued for ever and from both sides. As mentioned, he is one of the All Time Greatest players in MLB history, I think he still holds 5 records. When he retired he became a manager, he bet on his team to win. You would think he made every move a manager could make to ensure his team would win. So the only violation was betting on a game. SAD, his numbers that put him into the Hall were not a factor in his lifetime ban, betting was. Others who played in the steroid years, cheated, to increase their numbers, yet they haven't been issued a lifetime ban. Granted bone have been elected into the HOF, so Pete suffers. joe Jackson also banned for life for the 1919 White Sox took money to throw the series from mobsters, yet he batted.375, the highest average for any player from both teams, he was illiterate and didn't understand what he was signing, but he was banned for life. Granted he has been dead for 70 years, Pete deserves to be in the Hall, his numbers prove that.

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5 People

Thatsamazing

1 y
Agreed.
ItalianGuy322

1 y
You sure know a lot of about Pete Rose and baseball but did you ever see Kane in WWF hit Pete Rose with the Tombstone piledriver?
Thatsamazing

1 y
Oh hey! Can you do me a favor? Let the ItalianGuy whatever person know that he's stupid, and that he needs to read this? Blocking someone who disagrees with you means you're stupid. ↗

Thanks!
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8lutty

1 y
@Thatsamazing he blocking u eh?

Answer 2

Thatsamazing

Agreed.

Answer 3

ItalianGuy322

You sure know a lot of about Pete Rose and baseball but did you ever see Kane in WWF hit Pete Rose with the Tombstone piledriver?

Answer 4

Thatsamazing

Oh hey! Can you do me a favor? Let the ItalianGuy whatever person know that he's stupid, and that he needs to read this? Blocking someone who disagrees with you means you're stupid. ↗

Thanks!

Answer 5

8lutty

@Thatsamazing he blocking u eh?

Answer 6

chrissykerdock

Guru

rules are meant to be followed not broken then disregarded... unlike today's society and people in it that's why this post exists... in every clubhouse it says NO gambling... what did pete rose do? he gambled so he was suspended... shoeless joe Jackson the same even though it was 1 time... baseball's last 30 game winner denny mclain gambled and was suspended for 1 season... I don't know the circumstances other than he gambled... so gambling is a baseball rule... plus if you think about it integrity has to be maintained... without intergrity baseball wouldn't be worth watching if we weren't sure both teams are trying to win... like Houston they wanted to win so bad they cheated which has it's rules as well against doing... so integrity is very important and must be maintained.

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3 People

Red_Dragon

1 y
Yeah fuck the Astros. They screwed my Dodgers. That's alright. When we play this year we'll smoke everybody.. again. With Mookie. The Nats beat us fair and square though.
Cryptic-Game

1 y
So did the Red Sox in 2018.
Red_Dragon

1 y
Yeah I know. We then took Mookie from them.
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Cryptic-Game

1 y
Yeah, Mookie Betts is a good player, both hitting and in the outfield and can steal a lot of bases, which is a bonus. He doesn't strikeout that much as some others do with similar other stats either.
Red_Dragon

1 y
Oh he's a beast. We're stacked yet again. Clearly the best team in baseball on paper.

Answer 7

Red_Dragon

Yeah fuck the Astros. They screwed my Dodgers. That's alright. When we play this year we'll smoke everybody.. again. With Mookie. The Nats beat us fair and square though.

Answer 8

Cryptic-Game

So did the Red Sox in 2018.

Answer 9

Red_Dragon

Yeah I know. We then took Mookie from them.

Answer 10

Cryptic-Game

Yeah, Mookie Betts is a good player, both hitting and in the outfield and can steal a lot of bases, which is a bonus. He doesn't strikeout that much as some others do with similar other stats either.

Answer 11

Red_Dragon

Oh he's a beast. We're stacked yet again. Clearly the best team in baseball on paper.

Answer 12

WhiteSteve | 190 opinions shared on Sports topic.

Master

Fair or not, I think he should be in there. It’s not the Ethics Hall Of Fame, it’s the Baseball Hall Of Fame. It’s basically a museum, and I’m of the mind that anybody who you can’t really tell the story of the era without mentioning them as one of the greats, they should be in, no matter what character flaws or transgressions they had. Pete Rose was a great player of his era, I don’t care if he was behind 9/11, you gotta have him in there. If you feel the need to mention his transgressions underneath his plaque or something, whatever, that’s part of history too, but to just basically pretend the guy didn’t exist is just foolish.

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2 People

888theGreat

1 y
There are players in there that killed people, beat women, cheated on taxes, lied under oath, and cheated while they played to bolster their numbers. Should they be removed?
WhiteSteve

1 y
@888theGreat Mostly, yes. It doesn’t matter what you do in your personal life, that’s not what the Hall Of Fame is there for. I can understand arguments against steroid guys, but even then, I think you just need to look at baseball and be like “are we just not gonna induct anybody who played in the late 80s to the late 90s?”

As far as the other stuff, like I said... not a Hall Of Fame for Ethics, Morality, Human Decency. To turn to football... OJ Simpson, Hall Of Famer, and should be. They’ll never do it, but serial rapin’ ass Darren Sharper should be in there too. In a case like his, maybe you don’t bring him in for a whole speech since his off-the-field actions were so heinous, but you can’t just pretend a person didn’t exist in the game just because you disagree with their actions.

Answer 13

888theGreat

There are players in there that killed people, beat women, cheated on taxes, lied under oath, and cheated while they played to bolster their numbers. Should they be removed?

Answer 14

WhiteSteve

@888theGreat Mostly, yes. It doesn’t matter what you do in your personal life, that’s not what the Hall Of Fame is there for. I can understand arguments against steroid guys, but even then, I think you just need to look at baseball and be like “are we just not gonna induct anybody who played in the late 80s to the late 90s?”

As far as the other stuff, like I said... not a Hall Of Fame for Ethics, Morality, Human Decency. To turn to football... OJ Simpson, Hall Of Famer, and should be. They’ll never do it, but serial rapin’ ass Darren Sharper should be in there too. In a case like his, maybe you don’t bring him in for a whole speech since his off-the-field actions were so heinous, but you can’t just pretend a person didn’t exist in the game just because you disagree with their actions.

Answer 15

Red_Dragon

Guru

I think it's unfair but at the time I imagine they saw it as taking money away from them. Jordan may not have gambled on games but he clearly had a gambling problem. If it's illegal to gamble let the courts handle it but on the actual field? Like you said what does that have to do with his performance? I get the steroids stuff. It enhanced performance on the field.

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1 Person

Liam_Hayden

1 y
MLB Rule 21 (d)(2) enacted 1927, before Pete Rose was born:

(d) GAMBLING.
(2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared
permanently ineligible.
Red_Dragon

1 y
@Liam_Hayden oh wow. Didn't know that
Cryptic-Game

1 y
Wow. We ought to show madam @btbc92 this.

I bet Pete Rose didn't know that rule.
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NYCQuestions1976

1 y
@Cryptic-Game Pete Rose would probably take that bet.

I totally made myself laugh. I regret nothing.

Answer 16

Liam_Hayden

MLB Rule 21 (d)(2) enacted 1927, before Pete Rose was born:

(d) GAMBLING.
(2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared
permanently ineligible.

Answer 17

Red_Dragon

@Liam_Hayden oh wow. Didn't know that

Answer 18

Cryptic-Game

Wow. We ought to show madam @btbc92 this.

I bet Pete Rose didn't know that rule.

Answer 19

NYCQuestions1976

@Cryptic-Game Pete Rose would probably take that bet.

I totally made myself laugh. I regret nothing.

Answer 20

Bananaman177

Guru

He bet on himself to win, it's not the same as betting against yourself and then losing on purpose.

But that isn't the real reason he is being kept out of the Hall of Fame. He's a very outspoken and opinionated guy and a major league hothead, and he made lots of powerful enemies who seized upon his indiscretion as a convenient excuse to punish him and get their revenge.

In this life, you can either make mistakes or else you can make enemies, but you can't make both, or you'll be destroyed. Pete Rose did both and that's why they took everything from him.

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3 People

Liam_Hayden

1 y
"He bet on himself to win, it's not the same as betting against yourself and then losing on purpose."

Except it sort of is, unless he bet on every single Reds game, which he did not. When he didn't bet it signaled that he expected to lose.

Even if you disagree, Rule 21 is specific and a lifetime ban is the penalty for what Rose did.
Bananaman177

1 y
@Liam_Hayden He wasn't signaling anybody, he wasn't making his bets public.
Liam_Hayden

1 y
Except the bookies knew and could used the knowledge to place their own bets elsewhere. But it is all irrelevant, Rule 21 (d)(2) specifically calls for a permanent ban for what Rose admitted to doing. Case closed.
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Bananaman177

1 y
@Liam_Hayden I only wish we could have any faith that the rules are enforced equally in all circumstances. As opposed to being selectively enforced by people who hold everyone accountable except for themselves and their friends.

Answer 21

Liam_Hayden

"He bet on himself to win, it's not the same as betting against yourself and then losing on purpose."

Except it sort of is, unless he bet on every single Reds game, which he did not. When he didn't bet it signaled that he expected to lose.

Even if you disagree, Rule 21 is specific and a lifetime ban is the penalty for what Rose did.

Answer 22

Bananaman177

@Liam_Hayden He wasn't signaling anybody, he wasn't making his bets public.

Answer 23

Liam_Hayden

Except the bookies knew and could used the knowledge to place their own bets elsewhere. But it is all irrelevant, Rule 21 (d)(2) specifically calls for a permanent ban for what Rose admitted to doing. Case closed.

Answer 24

Bananaman177

@Liam_Hayden I only wish we could have any faith that the rules are enforced equally in all circumstances. As opposed to being selectively enforced by people who hold everyone accountable except for themselves and their friends.

Answer 25

ecfresh | 186 opinions shared on Sports topic.

Master

It’s fair because he has been given countless chances to admit he was wrong and ask for forgiveness and he refused. Everyone makes mistakes but most people learn from them and grow up. Pete is too stubborn and didn’t get along with those in power so they kept him out for a long time. Once he dies he will be a hall of famer and his stats will speak for themselves; unfortunately before then he is speaking and no one likes those words.

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3 People

Answer 26

btbc92

Master

I say what is fair is that everybody is judged the same way. Not pick who they want to judge or make an example out of. They want to bring everyone's past and judge it, they should have no problem being judged themselves. Overall, if gambling was wrong, then it's fair. If he gets ousted and yet the others who do illegal things also didn't, then it's prejudice.

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2 People

Cryptic-Game

1 y
So part of the Hall of Fame should include integrity of the game and not just how you performed the game?
btbc92

1 y
Of course. Think about the society we live in. They tell you don't judge but judge anyway. Judge other people, but don't like receiving the same judgment or don't even bother to judge themselves just as harshly. I find it sad that it happened to him. But if he as an adult knew the rules and what was wrong, then by the rules, they had the right to take the appropriate action. Anybodies career at that point should uphold the integrity and should be told what is expected of them.
Cryptic-Game

1 y
Yes. That's true. It still won't change his numbers or stats he produced. They still count in the record books,
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btbc92

1 y
Well in companies like that, they use anyone. That's what makes it so sad. He is a talented player. But I believe that they would have done it to him either way because of who he is.
Cryptic-Game

1 y
Yes, and I meant record books.

I accidentally placed a comma instead of a period.
btbc92

1 y
I know what you said about the record books. But what I am saying is that in the end, they see him as not only a piece of history but that he is history with his career. That is how every industry basically sees you.
Cryptic-Game

1 y
Yes. They still acknowledge his stats as worthy but don't see him as a Hall of Famer due to his off the field issues and he spent 5 months in prison for tax evasion back in 1990.
Bananaman177

1 y
Well-reasoned argument.
Liam_Hayden

1 y
@ Cryptic-Game If integrity were not part of it Shoeless Joe would have been part of the Hall's inaugural class.
Cryptic-Game

1 y
MLB Rule 21 (d)(2) enacted 1927, before Pete Rose was born:

(d) GAMBLING.
(2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared
permanently ineligible.
coffeewithcream

1 y
Yes.

Answer 27

Cryptic-Game

So part of the Hall of Fame should include integrity of the game and not just how you performed the game?

Answer 28

btbc92

Of course. Think about the society we live in. They tell you don't judge but judge anyway. Judge other people, but don't like receiving the same judgment or don't even bother to judge themselves just as harshly. I find it sad that it happened to him. But if he as an adult knew the rules and what was wrong, then by the rules, they had the right to take the appropriate action. Anybodies career at that point should uphold the integrity and should be told what is expected of them.

Answer 29

Cryptic-Game

Yes. That's true. It still won't change his numbers or stats he produced. They still count in the record books,

Answer 30

btbc92

Well in companies like that, they use anyone. That's what makes it so sad. He is a talented player. But I believe that they would have done it to him either way because of who he is.

Answer 31

Cryptic-Game

Yes, and I meant record books.

I accidentally placed a comma instead of a period.

Answer 32

btbc92

I know what you said about the record books. But what I am saying is that in the end, they see him as not only a piece of history but that he is history with his career. That is how every industry basically sees you.

Answer 33

Cryptic-Game

Yes. They still acknowledge his stats as worthy but don't see him as a Hall of Famer due to his off the field issues and he spent 5 months in prison for tax evasion back in 1990.

Answer 34

Bananaman177

Well-reasoned argument.

Answer 35

Liam_Hayden

@ Cryptic-Game If integrity were not part of it Shoeless Joe would have been part of the Hall's inaugural class.

Answer 36

Cryptic-Game

MLB Rule 21 (d)(2) enacted 1927, before Pete Rose was born:

(d) GAMBLING.
(2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared
permanently ineligible.

Answer 37

coffeewithcream

Yes.

Answer 38

grif429

Xper 3

Yeap he was a coach and betted on the reds? or even worst against them he is as big a cheater as Bonds and Sosa and Ken Caminiti and all the rest not one should be in the HOF because it destroys all the efforts people that had records and were broke by these cheaters. Babe Ruth who? For Rose he maybe didn't cheat as a player but he did break the rules which is the same and a big one

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Answer 39

NewtoTheSouth

Xper 7

Rule #1 of baseball is you don't bet on baseball games. The game was nearly ruined by the "Black Sox scandal" in 1919. If you bet on baseball, you are banned from the game. If you are banned from the game, you are ineligible for the Hall of Fame. Those are the rules. I don't think they should be bent for Pete Rose because he was a great hitter.

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Answer 40

Liam_Hayden

Guru

It is perfectly fair. He violated MLB Rule 21, which was adopted in 1927 Section (d) (2) states: Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared permanently ineligible. In his autobiography "My Prison Without Bars" he admitted to betting on the Reds to win while a player and manager of the team.

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2 People

888theGreat

1 y
so two players bet $100 on will win the baseball game they are about to play, are they now not eligible to be in Hall of Fame?
888theGreat

1 y
who will win
Liam_Hayden

1 y
@888theGreat That is a red herring, but technically under the rules, yes. Still the Commissioner would have discretion and it might not be enforced in that particular instance because the spirit of the rule, enacted not long after the Black Sox Scandal nearly destroyed MLB, was to prevent even the appearance that bribes and bookies were influencing the outcome of games. While a player and manager he bet on games that he thought his team would win. Now follow this. Not on every game, only those he thought he would win. So when he did NOT bet, that of course signaled those observing him that he expected to lose. This is the primary reason the Commissioner enforced it here. If he had bet on every single game for the Reds to win, he probably would have gotten a ten year ban, not a lifetime ban, or they would now consider reinstatement instead of ignoring it.
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Cryptic-Game

1 y
So even if they wanted to out him in, they would be violating the rules in doing so?
Cryptic-Game

1 y
put, not out
Liam_Hayden

1 y
No, the Commissioner has almost Presidential powers in MLB and could basically "pardon" Rose and then the BBWAA or the Veterans Committee could vote him in.

Answer 41

888theGreat

so two players bet $100 on will win the baseball game they are about to play, are they now not eligible to be in Hall of Fame?

Answer 42

888theGreat

who will win

Answer 43

Liam_Hayden

@888theGreat That is a red herring, but technically under the rules, yes. Still the Commissioner would have discretion and it might not be enforced in that particular instance because the spirit of the rule, enacted not long after the Black Sox Scandal nearly destroyed MLB, was to prevent even the appearance that bribes and bookies were influencing the outcome of games. While a player and manager he bet on games that he thought his team would win. Now follow this. Not on every game, only those he thought he would win. So when he did NOT bet, that of course signaled those observing him that he expected to lose. This is the primary reason the Commissioner enforced it here. If he had bet on every single game for the Reds to win, he probably would have gotten a ten year ban, not a lifetime ban, or they would now consider reinstatement instead of ignoring it.

Answer 44

Cryptic-Game

So even if they wanted to out him in, they would be violating the rules in doing so?

Answer 45

Cryptic-Game

put, not out

Answer 46

Liam_Hayden

No, the Commissioner has almost Presidential powers in MLB and could basically "pardon" Rose and then the BBWAA or the Veterans Committee could vote him in.

Answer 47

Blueeyes81

Guru

But his off the field gambling wasn't off the field. He bet on games when he was a player manager. If it was on other games between two different teams then I could see a case. But when you bet on a game you can influence then we have a problem. Shoeless joe has a better case for the HOF in my eyes.

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2 People

Answer 48

NYCQuestions1976 | 437 opinions shared on Sports topic.

Guru

Rose was a compiler the last few years of his career. He hung around just to pass Cobb. Look at his paltry batting average at the end of his career compared to Cobb, Aaron, Musial, Speaker, and Jeter.

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NYCQuestions1976

1 y
It's also come out recently that Rose's betting was far more widespread in baseball than simply "him betting on himself to win".

Answer 49

NYCQuestions1976

It's also come out recently that Rose's betting was far more widespread in baseball than simply "him betting on himself to win".

Answer 50

888theGreat | 83 opinions shared on Sports topic.

Guru

He was the hardest playing player of all time. Might be the smartest player with baseball knowledge. Many other players did worse things and are in HOF.

People are jealous of him.

Nolan Ryan is the out spoken anti Rose Hall of Famer and yet he was with Houston when they got caught cheating, did Ryan know about the cheating and did nothing about it? If so does Nolan Ryan deserve to stay in Hall of Fame?

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2 People

Liam_Hayden

1 y
How would he know about the cheating? Ryan was a special adviser to the Astros' owner, not involved in day to day operations.
888theGreat

1 y
@Liam_Hayden Feathers of same feather flock together. He should shut up now, and he did resign.
ItalianGuy322

1 y
@888thegreat At least Vince McMahon did the right thing and put him in the WWE Hall of Fame lol.
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888theGreat

1 y
@ItalianGuy322 Yea, for just two appearances
ItalianGuy322

1 y
Pete Rose coming out in the chicken outfit and getting tombstoned by Kane was like the greatest thing I remember him for lol.
Liam_Hayden

1 y
He resigned because his son was demoted by the organization.

Answer 51

Liam_Hayden

How would he know about the cheating? Ryan was a special adviser to the Astros' owner, not involved in day to day operations.

Answer 52

888theGreat

@Liam_Hayden Feathers of same feather flock together. He should shut up now, and he did resign.

Answer 53

ItalianGuy322

@888thegreat At least Vince McMahon did the right thing and put him in the WWE Hall of Fame lol.

Answer 54

888theGreat

@ItalianGuy322 Yea, for just two appearances

Answer 55

ItalianGuy322

Pete Rose coming out in the chicken outfit and getting tombstoned by Kane was like the greatest thing I remember him for lol.

Answer 56

Liam_Hayden

He resigned because his son was demoted by the organization.

Answer 57

supercutebutt

Yoda

I say put him in along with Shoeless Joe Jackson. Why not? The guy is a dummy though.

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Answer 58

Thatsamazing

Guru

It's unfair.
He deserved to be banned from ever playing or being involved in the sport ever again, but it makes no sense to ban him from the Hall of Fame.

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3 People

Answer 59

ItalianGuy322

Xper 3

He is in the WWE Hall of Fame though and I like wrestling way more than I like baseball so that is ok!

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Answer 60

Iron_Man | 982 opinions shared on Sports topic.

Master

Enough is enough already he belongs in the Hall of Fame today

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Answer 61

not329446

Xper 5

Nobody ever said rules have to be fair. If you don't play by the rules your out.

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Answer 62

coffeewithcream

Explorer

No.
If you bet on games as a player the line has to be drawn. That behaviour invited corruption.
It doesn't matter your numbers. He should never be in the hall of fame.

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2 People

Answer 63

cloud9vortex1234

Explorer

Yes, they had the rule in place and he broke it. He was then banned as the rule states. People that want him reinstated don't want to be fair. They want Special Treatment for him.

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1 Person

Answer 64

sensible27

Guru

Don't know much about it, sorry.

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Answer 65

jimmy2

Guru

It is what it is though

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Do you think it is fair that due to Pete Rose gambling on baseball games that he is not in the Baseball Hall of Fame?

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