Considering that the US Flag Codes is not enforceable law, but the NFL Rulebook is a regulation of employment, these clowns should be fined for violation by their employers.Freedom of speech is only a protection against the government, it doesn't protect you from employment contracts and regulations. In other words, yes your employer can stifle your speech.
Additionally regarding all of these so-called violations of the flag code, they aren't.The code is specifically referring to the use of actual flags. NOT the likeness of a flag.Meaning most of what this guy tweeted is total BS.
True, but by the looks of it its getting attention and even some teams are not participating in the Anthem which doesn't state in the NFL league rulebook. :)
I'm also a multi-generation US Veteran.
You're just twisting it around. Flag code is a flag code regardless. You're "using" this flag. So, if someone burned it it wouldn't be considered wrong because it's just a measly flag code? The "likeness" of the flag, people are naive if they really think the NFL is kneeling down because of the military. No. The flag represents freed, liberty and justice which African Americans and whites are not getting.
Who are killed by police*
Black Americans, especially men, are far more likely to be killed by other Black Americans than they are by police.In fact they are more likely to be killed by other Black Americans today than they were to be lynched during the Jim Crow era.Police brutality is a very minor issue compared to the real problems plaguing black communities.
And I'm twisting nothing here about the Flag Code. Let's see what the Veterans organization The American Legion has to say on the topic. From their website: Question: Is it permissible to wear an item of clothing that looks like the United States flag?Answer: Unless an article of clothing is made from an actual United States flag, there is NO breach of flag etiquette whatsoever. People are simply expressing their patriotism and love of country by wearing an article of clothing that happens to be red, white, and blue with stars and stripes. There is nothing illegal about the wearing or use of these items.www.legion.org/.../it-permissible-wear-item-clothing-looks-united-states-flag
Of course it's not illegal he simple stated disrespect
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the whole A62-63 of the NFL Rulebook as been proven to be completely false. There is nothing in the NFL Rulebook that requires players to stand for or even be present for the National Anthem. The quote you picked up is not in the NFL Rulebook, BUT it is in the NFL Game Operational Manual which is NOT a rulebook.Also if you took the time to read the entirety of that quote, you'll see that it says "Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline". The keyword in that statement is "may". The NFL has already released a statement that no players will be punished for kneeling, so that's the end of that discussion.
Starrk MHO GOES TO YOU
"America fought to free our slaves" uhmmm no. North America helped... how does standing up for what's right creating a racial divide. Ask yourself that. Maybe it's the people who are racist have the problem? I agree on the slave trade but that has nothing to do with what they are protesting and I'm pretty sure people stopped buy blood diamonds because of the fact. The great thing is these rich people protesting have a platform to spread the word and they have freedom to do so.
"North America helped..." you're not even giving credit to the hundreds of thousands of people who died in the civil war? They helped? No. They gave everything for that cause. Also there is more slavery in our world now than ever before. The reasons these guys are kneeling has nothing to do with our flag and anthem and everything to do with causing division.
Teams have not included themselves to participate in the anthem. Coaches included. The players are probably going no where. So if 90% of football players are black that means they are all getting fired? No.
No one said they'd get fired... its really simple. Decreased ratings = less money which means more leverage for owners in labor negotiations. You can't make it as simple as fired or hired. Its like saying... kneeling is ok but having a viewpoint other than that is rude. You know, lime your question implies.
How is my question implies it's okay to kneel but you can't stand?
You have to give me an example on that one
Or your saying that I'm saying kneeling is wrong but I also have other opinions which could be wrong but arnt? So it's not a dig at me
.. well I'm saying that the players obviously have the right to express their views. That's clear cuz they are doing it. I personally don't see it as a question of ride or not. I'm saying that I think they are overplaying their hand and that as much as it is their right to speak it is also reasonable for people to express differing opinions. Ratings have been consistently declining and marketing studies have indicated that the anthem protests are the primary cause. Ultimately when the people that pay for these players to play the players lose power in pay and voice. It will check itself in the end.In other words, the people that pay these folks to play football are not paying to hear their political opinions. Ergo, bargaining power is reduced and that is bad for the players.
Well of course people are not paying to hear the players voice, that's why people are boycotting the nfl, that's why views are declining/money being brought in. Players DO have a platform (not saying you didn't say that) but what's important to these people they will be heard, and it's for good, not bad. Thank you for clerifying your points, they were great.
I personally would like to see the league and the fans and the Ayers all come together for one weekend and stand I'm solidarity with these players.. or kneel in solidarity and then let's all get back to sports and leave the politics off the field. But that won't be good enough for anyone I'm sure.
Chica, if only If only it were that simple :/
Solving the problem Obvs isn't that simple and that isn't what I was saying so don't conflate my words. Sunday sports isn't the place to have an ongoing protest on politics. it is harming the league and the voice of the players. The best thing for everyone here is to move on from this instance.
All I was doing was replying to what you said about everybody coming together to talk and then leave their own separate ways. Don't need to get snappy here. The NFL will continue to make money. Just probably not now lol its no big deal, it's not like the players are NOT playing..
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Woulndt fit "I think the idea of..."Better thatn "I find"? (Sounds like a common german-native speeker mistake to me but I may be mistaken on my own...)
I'm Dutch and yes in that situation we essentially say ''I find". English is not my first language, although I'm trying my best. Revising my initial comment, I'm inclined to say 'I think that the comparison..' would be better.
Okay... just to state, if you think the football players are doing this to defeat the military you are wrong. The flag also represent justice which black folk are not getting.
@asker I didn't specifically mention the military. I just wrote what I read whilst browsing some stuff. Hence I said I'm not too familiar with it and I'm an European. You're probably right that it represents justice, but then we're getting in a whole debate of which my knowledge is lacking since I know not a lot about the USA.
No problem for me I am german and not a native English speaker on my own😅But this question made me wonder if such an code still exists here in Europe aswell
Does Europe have any problems with civilians vs. The police?
@asker as far as I know we don't have the police gunning innocent people down. 1 black man was strangled though two years ago, due to incorrect usage of protocol. They were punished and I haven't really seen it since where I live. Then again, race relations are not nearly as emphasised in my experience. We Europeans tend to identify with ethnicities and never identify ourselves as white/black/Asian nor have I seen we make such a fuss about it.
Not that much so far I know. There where one or two "small" accidents during some protests where the water throwers where used and some persons got injured (here in germany btw) but this was "easily" solved by the court
I wish our system was like yours haha just saying we have so much drama
We have different problems, because of minorities not integrating well in society. But yes, there is far less police violent of a racist nature in my experience
@The_Gentelman Such a code does not really exist where I live, some government party wants to make it mandatory to have Dutch flags in schools and more often do the anthem and that was already met with the criticism of it being extremely nationalist, which isn't that popular considering Wilders and history (Hitler). I've seen people burning the Dutch flag, people were critical of it but it was nowhere near as controversial as it would be in the USA
Thank you for your input
I'm not saying no one is a nazi or whatever I'm trying to imply. You're simply not understanding this post. All I'm saying is its not disrespectful to kneel during the anthem. Lol
Or I misunderstood your opinion. I'm not saying anyone is nazi or even racist. This is about facts, opinions and the truth is all
It's the photos you are using on the choices. It's very clear
The top picture in the second photo was supposed to say "These fine americans" the bottom part of the second picture were supposed to have the words "These sons of bitches" both stated by your president Donald Trump.
The top part in the second photo*
Why is that anon?
Troll alert, move to North Korea. They hate free speech there
@MidnightCowboy they have freedom of speech but not freedom of consequences.
Why do you think "anon"?
You do not see me whining over things like this. It's stupid to cry over something like this while this country has more bigger things to worry about.
The NFL is prodominently 90% black. You think if ALL the football players decide to not play one game they'd end up fired. -_-
They are playing for one reason only. To entertain us not pull this shit.
@MidnightCowboy what the fuck do you think you are doing now?
I have been working on homework for hours this weekend to get my degree. I also want to find ways to improve the country. You're just a pink anon who whines on the internet. Get a life
@MidnightCowboy no you are whining about me. You get a life.
Whatever pink anon
They have freedom of speech and they all have platforms to do what they want. Blame NFL not them :)
I'll blame who I want. They should keep their political beliefs to themselves while they are working
That's your opinion, but these players have a platform to say or do whatever they want and yes they have to face consequences but I don't think 90% of the nfl will get fired anytime soon. Have a nice day
I hope a lot of them do... the assholes
I bet they won't say a word about the black man that shot up that church
The African American community must take responsibility of their wrongdoings as well. Until then, nothing will change. For example, why are successful African Americans not athletes or musical artists ostracized?
You brought up a good point, however things change. Point blank. Traditions are important, however we don't live in traditions. Children are happening out of wedlock.. etc
Change should not be embraced simple because it marks a departure from the past. All change is not positive.
Well... it's about time someone takes a stand. And this "change" hasn't just happened in a period of one day... hence kappernick started last year
And a tremendous number of Americans feel that what he and others are doing is disrespectful. The NFL can condone this behavior but it will lose a tremendous amount of attendance and viewership in the coming months. These people have a legal right to protest as they do but their employers could order them to not do this; so far, the NFL is not taking that position. The people now have the right to boycott the NFL and its supporting sponsors. When you do thinks designed to draw attention to yourself, you must be prepared for ALL of the consequences.
I agree thank you for your opinions
The flag represents america...
Indeed, as well as freedom and liberty. Disrespecting a symbol of liberty to protest oppression seens rather counterintuitive, no? Lol
AND JUSTICE FOR ALL! NO?
I'm saying none of the folk being killed by police got justice..
They could of been living today if it weren't for bad cops
Yeah and they would have been mugging, stealing and killing other people. Almost all of the publicised cases of cop shootings were well justified. The few cases that aren't, the cops are punished. People can go protest at police stations. Why disrespect the flag?
Those folks you're talking about are hardly innocent and people don't get shot at by cops for no reason.
So someone who were stealing cds is considered a criminal, looking past his past? Emmet till whistled at a Caucasian lady, so he was a criminal? He got tortured, beat, mutilated, hung, and possibly drowned and weighted in the water? He deserved that?
No, but how is one case from over 60 years ago reason to disrespect a flag that has stood for freedom for hundreds of years?
it Stands For Justice Too Which African americans, And some Whites Are Not Getting. I can name another one. Her name is Sandra bland. Reason for blm is black people are going to stick together what's not seen as right forever even if it doesn't seem right to others. If you think the NFL is kneeling down because of the military you are wrong
They're not kneeling down because of the military lol.
But they would be more useful as shields for the people fighting to protect the flag they kneel for.
Oh I understand your cruel joke
To your update: The kneeling itself isn't disrespectful, it's what it means.