so how should those who falsely accuse of rape be dealt with in your opinion?
You're walking on eggshells here. How do you bring sanction on false accusers and not put women off reporting actual rape. Because that's the big danger. We had a case recently in Nth Ireland where a woman brought a case of rape and sexual assault against two international rugby players. They weren't full international players , but on the verge of making the team. The woman was 9 days on the stand getting destroyed by the expensive legal eagles. They managed to get some crucial evidence withheld from the jury. And the men were cleared of the charges. The woman was raped, sexually assaulted, of that there is no doubt. The charges couldn't be proved. The pure nasty demeaning sexism these scum showed to women was very clearly shown in court. This case will put women off reporting actual rape. Rape is a hard thing to prove in many circumstances. It's equally as difficult for a man to prove he didn't do it. How can a man prove consent took place.
Women who falsely accuse a man of rape should face the same penalty the man would face for rape. A lot of what goes on in such a trial depends on what evidence the police gather, and how it's presented and used in court. There's no easy answer to the question you posed. For interest sake i'm posting a link to that trial.www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/.../...ch-36754500.html
I don't buy that the intentions behind it were ever necessarily "good". We're circumventing due process but we're doing it for a noble cause u guyz! Yeah ok. That'll end well.
Ya, part of the problem might be that guys who were accused with no proof were fired and had their lives ruined over it. aziz ansari was attacked for having a girl not enjoy the date, although I think he ended up on top.The other thing is at least 2-10% of reported rapes to police are false, and since there are possible representations for false reports you could assume that the number of falsely report rapes or sexual assault would be higher when they do it online with no legal representations. Another way to look at the same stat is at most 48-40% of rapes reported to police are true, since about 50% aren't proven true or false.
@nathanp97 keep in consideration that for the most part, most assaults and rapes can't be proven no matter how true it is. I will always be more likely to believe someone who says they were assaulted than to not believe. Most women (and men!) do not repirt right away for various reasons, and its not fair to say its their own fault then.
Never said it was their own fault. I believe people if I know them personally to be trustworthy and/or if the evidence points to the man. We or at least i live in a country where it is innocent until proven guilty.
@nathanp97 in my own personal life, almost every woman I am close with has had a situation of at least sexual harassment and in comparison I know 2 men who were accused of doing something. And guess what, they were guilty. I give leeway to one of the men because it was situation where he and his girlfriend were both minors and their interactions were consentual but they were still minors and when parents found out, accusations were made. And that guy i just mentioned, despite having had accusations and legal action taken against him, supports me too like nobodys business.
So one of the guys wasn't guilty. He was falsely accused, because last time I checked being a man and having sex with another minor is not illegal. He might support it publicly but not privately. + I support at least the idea of the movement just not how guys are loosing their jobs over unproven accusations. That just isn't right.
@nathanp97 no. He knowledges that they never should've had sex. He was older than her. They were both minors yet he was at age of consent and she wasn't. He knew better. But they still had sex. It doesn't matter than she says she consented, she wasn't of legal age. He knew that and owns up to it.
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I definitely think there's a good argument here.
Like prostitution 😂
The real heroes are ones that refused to sit in the casting couch. Why didn’t we ever hear about those women?
@sonnysunshine Exactly right! i wish they would come out and saySee, Gwyneth? I chose dignity over fame and money. Why are you complaining now?
Accepting that hastags are the new protest/March will serve you well. Wheter I (I don’t by the way) like it or not.
I think the #MeToo movement as far as the actual hashtag is about people seeing how common rape is. However, the amount of false rape claims does a disservice to the actual victims of rape.
that last part is disgusting. the 'greater good' is all they care about. smh
I know right. She also believes mothers should ask their babies "permission" to change their diapers.
Oh Jesus thank god women like you are the ones who give me hope
It’s so obvious when bitches make shit up. Makes my blood boil.
Yea but most people believe the bs anyway its sad really
You know the saddest thing? When I was raped I didn’t report it and barely breathed a word because I worked with his ex wife (who he had kids with my age) and the wife’s sister. I was more concerned about his kids and and his wife than myself. I even put up with him living on the same street as me. I didn’t want his innocent people to be punished by his crime...
@Hidden_P why are telling us this
@Hidden_P I'd like to beat this guy within an inch of his life.
@Frankenstein99 which one?
@Hidden_P The guy you said raped you. Not that raping is ok, but he was so much older than you and so he exploited that vulnerability which makes it doubly worse in my mind.
@Frankenstein99 So, how do you make it so this woman feels comfortable reporting, but also still prevent false accusations?What if everyone in his office claims he's a great guy?What if she only made these claims cause the company has lots of money and she wants them to settle?What if people say she's just trying to ruin his life because she was his secret affair?What if he says she consented and was trying to seduce him for a position?Do you really think a rapist and their lawyers wouldn't use all of these because it's proven effective in silencing victims?How do you make sure she's comfortable speaking up and putting this man away, but not the women who would make a "false claim"?Surely, you have the answer, right?What's more important? False claims not being made, or people feeling okay coming forward about their rapists?
@SomeOtherGuy What are you talking about? Where in my post did i claim to have all the answers? lol
Oh this was for @MLGbreezyHa.
@SomeOtherGuy You are actually telling us to let it continue and ruin people lives. Then I really really hope it must happen to you once to understand WHY it matters?If the situation continue like this the male population will totally isolate itself from female population and trust the whole relationship thing favours female gender. I would also like to point out my generation (1997-2000 date of birth) are pseudo-anti relationship and I think 90% are against marriage, where 80% think you can have kids and sex with-out permanent relationship and its perfectly Okay to cheat/fuck multiple woman cuz She will do it anyway !Things like this are responsible for the current asshole behaviour/trend by young gen and almost everyone is pseudo-MGTOW
@SomeOtherGuy with ectogenesis+Ovum banks and sex dolls with A. I on horizon, the femlae gender will lose its glamour and necessary for reproduction behaviour for good. The future will not be bright for any gender but female side will be hit very very badly.Guys put up with all this bias cuz 1) She is female and we are supposed to love them after-all (Sex dolls have working intelligence now)2) She is necessary for reproduction (but Ectogenesis+Ovum banks are answer to that)
@AlphaGhost I'm telling you that rape is a fucked up crime and we can't ignore it. That the years behind prison is nothing compared to the anguish and torment that a rape victim, especially one untreated and silenced, will suffer.I have yet to see anyone produce a single report of false accusations that pass the 50% mark. That means that 50% of accusations are true. That's nothing to say of the women who were silenced for reasons I mentioned.Yet all I hear from scared, shit-eating coward men who can't manage their relationships is "You could be next! The women are all gonna get us!"No. They aren't. We operate in a functioning society. Women aren't malicious she-demons seeking your man-gold. Get some fucking female friends and learn a thing or two about the opposite sex.Before you end up silencing a woman like the one coming forward here because "It could ruin his reputation! Think of his reputation!"
@AlphaGhost This shit pisses me off. You have NO FUCKING CLUE how fucking awful rape and being silenced are do you?That rapists get off on silencing their victims. That's the ultimate power for them. And you want to enable and allow it.I don't want men to be falsely accused either. Because most men who are falsely accused are poor minorities who don't have the defenses that rapists who actually silence victims are afforded.So we need a better system.Rape accusations should keep all parties anonymous.Rapists should be treated and rehabilitated. At the same time, victims should also undergo treatment to help them return to a normal life.If the victim or rapist has made a false accusation, this will likely come through during the treatment period.This isn't a perfect system, but it's a start. The entire criminal system is fucked, which is why rape is such a difficult subject of law.
@AlphaGhost I know more women that were silenced by their rapists than I do men that were falsely accused.I also think your dehumanization of women is fucking pedantic. You're clearly pretty sure that without the great laws of this land women would fall upon all men in droves and tear out their eyes and feast upon their flesh.Surely, oh great and manly AlphaGhost, we need the powerful and wise men to come forth and silence and tame them with his feats of marriage and house-work to keep them sated from their flesh-eating ways.
@AlphaGhost Enjoy your fucking incel lifestyle. I, on the other hand, will be meeting real women and treating them like fucking human beings instead of sexually abusing a doll that can't consent. Thankfully, because I'm not fucked in the head.
@AlphaGhost Normally I'm far more empathetic. But I find it hard to muster empathy for anyone who would advocate that we should be protecting the falsely accused at the expense of rape victims.It shouldn't be hard to come up with a system that takes rape accusations seriously while still preventing false rape accusations.Infact, I offered one.
@SomeOtherGuy i don't k ow why you mentioned me i never agreed with anything you said so leave me out of it
@SomeOtherGuy I never mentioned protecting the Rape from punishments but you can't just allow 50% of woman to destroy the man life based on the shit behaviour.2) I was just talking about improving the justice system for the good of people CUZ 50% LIFE ALSO MATTER and your argument of punishing the remaining false accused person for crime they don't commit is FAR GREATER THAN THE RAPE (cuz rape victim can live but for accused victim its the end of the road anyway)3) Someone life is more serious can very very serious crime as rape and if you can't understand than you are idiot.4) I absolutely don't agree with the whole rehabilitation thing and I have even participated in rallies for capital punishment of beheading/Hanging in public for rape offence. The only punishment they deserve is death penalty and if it scares general public, then let them fucking scared of the Law and result of crime.
@SomeOtherGuy You think I am fucking crazy and won't get a girl idiot,I am the student of MD or MBBS (Doctor) in the medical college and I have very loyal/beautiful/successful girl as my G. f from the age of 16.I am 99% sure I will have very very bright future as compare to you cuz you may not be noticing but Doc have pretty good earning and medical profession as a whole is...$$$$You mentioned the ways to come up with rights to deal with rape issue, well idiot court convict a man rapist just cuz SHE SAID IT and if court is unable to find any evidence to help man's case. Then even there is absolutely no evidence (biological) to point out he did it !Female accusation will simply have his life destroyed and convicted as criminal cuz her JUST SAYING IS MORE THAN ENOUGH but GUY have to prove it biologically. She got right to her body so She can simply decide not allow doctors to look for DNA (possible offender cuz its her body) and court will convict him.
I have personally worked on the laboratory sample collection and the parents/She won't allow you to sample the DNA from the vagina cuz its her body and the whole feminazi argument (Ohhh you will insert swab in to poor girl after rape) is idiotic.We are convicting someone possible for life sentence and you are actually killing the chances of your his survival cuz YOU SAID IT AND HE WILL BE PUNISHED. The US law don't even recognize the MALE rape as thing and according to them,MALE CAN NEVER BE RAPED OR FORCED I my time in clinic 80% of time She will say,he beat me and forced on me with absolutely no external signs of any possible injury and Vagina is perfectly fine But according to her,HE FORCED ME and I was dying with pain still there is no edema or any possible injury. I can understand your hatred for rapist (they should be hanged) but You have no idea about false system 80% people are convicted so far are with-out DNA evidence and based on (SHE SAID IT).
A false accusation may just be an "annoyance" to you, as it detracts from a narrative you support and you don't ever have to worry about it happening to you. To the man accused it is devastating, career and life ending. Even if proven not guilty, it will follow them forever. It can literally destroy someone's sanity.
@joanofarcher Thank you so much! It means the world to men to hear common sense and understanding from women like you who get it.
That’s why I mentioned that you should not be fired before the verdict. I think it’s ridiculous that people take actions like that without even knowing whether they’re justified.
You said false allegations are "Annoying, but that's all". That's fucking sociopathic. Jesus.. I think I am really starting to understand why MGTOW is a thing.
Did you read my comment?
What about my response implied that I didn't?
Well I mentioned in my comment, not my opinion (which I didn’t reread, otherwise i would have been more specific), that I think the false allegations themselves aren’t the problem, it’s that you are fired before you’ve even been to court about it. And people wouldn’t be so scared of the metoo movement if people wouldn’t react before they know the facts.
I don't see how any of that detracts from my point that you don't seem to comprehend the damage a false accusation does to a man's life.
We had a case close to me where a male teacher was accused by three teenage girls of sexual misconduct. He was arrested in front of his class and hauled off to police station. He was immediately suspended from teaching and before his trial which was three months later he had been fired already. In court the girls admitted they totally made up the stories because they were pissed for him giving them poor grade. The girls get a scolding, the teacher has lost his career, likely will never teach again and now works at a Lowes. The families of the three girls although sorry it happened don't even have anything he could sue them over. This is just one of many examples how #meto has gone wrong!
@katiesmuff Wow! Nightmare!
@katiesmuff that’s so terrible. Yeah that shit stays with you even if you are found innocent.
I do understand that, and that’s why I wish people wouldn’t react before they are certain about something. That was my point
Yep, even proven false accusations and the women still get no punishment. There needs to be a law where they get the same amount of years as the man could have gotten in jail, they need a false accuser registry for life, and they should be fined equal to ten years of his salary.
@AynonOMouse What if this sets a precedence where women, after making their accusation, are now afraid to recant their accusation because of the huge penalty, so they stick to their guns and the guy rots in prison because she never says anything and keeps the lie going. Because admitting to the lie would be too big.Now, those who are falsely accused have an even lower likelihood of being freed, thanks to this law that's focused not on solving the issue, but dealing harsher punishments merely for the sake of perverted "justice."As well, how do you define a "false rape accusation"? One where no conviction occurs? Then wouldn't this further push all women into the shadows who are raped, and empower rapists? All you have to do is force her to clean up, or argue that it was consensual, or that she's merely trying to get something, and you're likely to be acquitted if your lawyer is worth half a damn. So just tell your victim "You won't win, so shut up, or you'll be in jail for life!"
@AynonOMouse Further, it only incentives rapists who are wealthy or have power or influence in their community to commit rape.It's hard to argue "She's just trying to get something out of me/ruin my life" if you have a good enough life or enough wealth or power to make that argument. So, if you're in a good place, rape freely cause now you have a good excuse to get out of a rape accusation.And if you're poor, bam. Easy target, cause who is going to believe you have anything?That's why it's mostly poor minorities who are accused and then later proven falsely accused. Because it's easy for people to think "The poor black man did it" because he has no reputation to uphold, and he's easy to villainize. Whereas the wealthy white man has a reputation to uphold so he'd surely never have done that. Plus he has good lawyers who will argue his case.And then you begin to see the reality of how rape culture actually works.
Lets throw in an interestingly common scenario:If two people are already intimate, and one rapes the other, how do you make the argument that it wasn't consensual sex?You can collect a rape kit sample, but how do you prove consent?And what do you do if you're raped and your partner forces you to clean it up.What if you're in an office with a senior employee, and they rape you, and claim that it was consensual and you were looking to get a promotion?Or that you are trying to extort the company to get a settlement?What if he argues that they were having a secret affair and she's trying to blackmail him?Lawyers are great at crafting these, and a lot of their strategy hinges on defrauding and shaming victims.Evidence is never as cut and dry as you think.
@SomeOtherGuy but just taking someone's word is not safe either, what would you suggest?
I agreed. It's bullshit.