What do you mean that you "know" that pregnancies are never an accident?
Meaning, a woman doesn’t accidentally get pregnant (except in non-consensual circumstances). There were decisions and voluntary precursors leading up to the pregnancy. If these decisions and voluntary precursors were decided on in a more logical and careful manner, the pregnancy wouldn’t be a thing, hence the abortion wouldn’t exist. Abortion is a cascade of bad/poor decision making that could’ve been prevented.
That doesn't make it not an accident though. People use contraception and/or birthcontrol and can still get pregnant which certainly wasn't their intention (and in fact was what they were actively trying to avoid). You could say that they didn't do enough, but that doesn't mean it isn't an accident.
That’s what I mean, a cascade of actions that could’ve prevented the pregnancy. It’s not an accident that I wore a gray shirt today. I chose to wear a gray shirt and I’m only to blame for that decision. If a woman is pregnant, what are the decisions that lead up to that pregnancy? None of those decisions couldn’t have been by accident, rather, those decisions have been poor, irresponsible, etc. That’s what I mean by not an accident. If those decisions were done a different way, the pregnancy wouldn’t have occurred. For example, use birth control and ask your man to pullout while he has a condom on. Maybe even two condoms on as well. There are ways to ensure you don’t get pregnant. You can even vet the man as well, to make sure he’s a person you want to have sex and have a child.
Just because something is preventable doesn't mean it isn't an accident though. I completely understand what you're saying, and I agree that couples who don't want children should take multiple approaches to stopping a pregnancy from happening, but that doesn't mean they can always stop it. For example, if birth control, two condoms, and the pullout method were all used, but conception still took place. Would you consider that an accident?
Then reframe from having penetrative sex then. I can’t think of a way where a woman would get pregnant, in a consensual circumstance, if she reframes from penetrative sex. You can do everything else, but if pregnancy is of a concern and you want to be 100% sure, then don’t engage in penetrative sex unless you’re sure the man you’re with is someone you want to be with and have children with.I can’t give a pass on this because it’s easily avoidable. So, I understand what you’re saying in accidents can technically happen even if you’re being careful, but that still depends on the specifics. For example, if I point a loaded gun at me, but put multiple books in between the barrel and myself to ensure that I won’t get hit with the bullet, but I indeed get with the bullet, who’s fault is that? It would’ve been better to unload the gun, make sure it was clear, and point the barrel away from me. So, you’re right in that the accidents occurred, but that wasn’t what I was getting at or meant in my response. This is why abortion is a multi faceted topic that involves changing how we think about sex and our actions.
That's fair! I think we can certainly both agree that people need to be taking multiple precautions.
Yes, I mean, look at other domains in life. If I have my gun in my backpack at school and accidentally drop my backpack, causing the gun to fire and injure or kill someone, I’m still liable for those damages even though this was an accident. I’m sure you’d agree that this was dumb on my part for (1) bringing the gun in school (2) not securing it properly (3) not taking better care of my backpack, when I should’ve since there’s a gun in there. You’d think it was fair that I was liable for the charges, even though it was an accident, but why? Because the accident was dumb and could’ve been avoided. This is what I mean.
" There were decisions and voluntary precursors leading up to the pregnancy."There are no such things as car accidents. There were decisions and voluntary precursors leading to driving.
@JenSCDC same with smoking. No one tells a smoker who knows has lung cancer that they should've thought of the effects. Well I'm sure do, but they still receive treatment and chemotherapy.
@JenSCDCWell, if you don’t come to a full stop at a STOP sign and take your time to look both ways before crossing, and end up hitting a cyclist riding across the street, you’d be liable for that offense even though it was an accident. Likewise if you’re driving on a green light and enter the intersection and someone t-bones you when they should’ve stopped, you wouldn’t be liable for those damages. Comparing to abortion. If you were raped and then became pregnant due to this fact, you aren't and shouldn’t be liable for having the baby. I understand abortion in cases of rape, incest, and life of the mother. Likewise, if you made poor decisions prior to the abortion, like not telling the guy to wear a condom and pullout, and not engaging in penetrative sex with a man you’ve vetted and wanted to spend your time and have children with... This is obviously a different situation. If you would’ve done things differently, the outcome would’ve been different for sure.
Pedestrians always have the right of way. The pullout method is bullshit. People are having sex whether you like it or not. People will find a way to get abortions whether you like it or not. The best thing we can do is prevent abortions happening by making sex education better and mandatory in schools, make education in general better, and make healthcare reasonable. America is nowhere close to getting any of those things done to help prevent abortions. In fact politicians are actively working to make sure none of those things hapoen. Birth control is getting harder to get, sex education sucks, and healthcare is a giant pile of crap.
@1truekhaleesiPedestrians having the right of way doesn’t matter for what I’m trying to get at. What I meant was that, even though an “accident” has occurred, the person can still be at fault and liable for the charges. It’s the same type of accident as some others. People having sex is not about whether I like it or not, but why get an abortion in the first place? This could mean, that the woman didn’t want to have the child in the first place or didn’t want to have a child with the man she had sex with, but “complications” happened. At any moment, she could’ve tailored her decisions in these circumstances with just common sense and good thinking, and she wouldn’t be thinking about an abortion to begin with. This is why, while this may have been an accident, it was within her realm of control, hence the previous examples I’ve given. I don’t feel comfortable supporting a decision to kill a life inside her because it’s inconvenient for her and because of some bad decision making. I believe life inside the woman is precious and I also believe the woman’s life is precious as well, which is why the exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother are what I stand by. I don’t think you should force a woman to give birth, but no one forced her to have sex either (excluding non-consensual acts). There are 100% full proof ways of avoiding pregnancy, so I cannot excuse bad behavior because some easily avoidable consequences occurred.
The only person who will be liable for charges is whoever was driving the car. It's not up to you to decide if a woman has good reason to get an abortion, and frankly it's not your business.
I don’t think you understand those examples that I’ve laid forth... Anyways, I guess we have to just agree to disagree. Have a good day
I'm saying it's a dumb example. If the pedestrian get killed even if they were jaywalking, the driver who hit them is liable.
Well, that isn’t as clear cut as I was trying to make it. I didn’t mention jaywalking, which would would open up a variety of different, more “Gray” situations. If a person just decides to run across the right while there’s traffic and a car hits him or her, should the driver be liable for the damages? You can see this going both ways and not being as black or white as the examples I’ve given. In this case, these more gray situations would be adjudicated on based on the specifics of the circumstances.
Maybe morally, yes. In the eyes of law no. The driver should've been paying attention and they didn't have their eyes on the road, now someone is dead.
Even if the driver had his/her eyes on the road, it wouldn’t matter if someone decides to just run right in front of your car. You would’ve had to have unreasonable reflexes to stop on the dot before hitting someone, and even then I still don’t see you not hitting a person if they’re that close to you. Again, the specifics of the circumstances matter in these situations and probably in all situations. It’s not simply, it’s the law and that’s that. When talking about law, the totality of the circumstances and a bunch of factors/variables are taken into consideration. Also depends on the state I’m sure.
That's nice. We've know gone off topic.
Well, I had to explain to you because you seemed like you didn’t understand the bigger picture of those examples...
No I think you just wanted to get the last word in, but sure let's go with that.
Lol, I said “have a good day” a few comments ago, but you decided to continue the discussion.
I would rather abortions be legal to 9 months. Late term abortions are performed because the fetus isn’t viable or the moms life is threatened. No woman waits 9 months to have an abortion. And I think a lot of people would have an issue with embryos being used for research because they consider them humans. I believe in stem cell research though. In order for us to have no more abortions, we need easy access to birth control, high school diplomas for everyone, and reasonable healthcare. We are no where close to checking any of those off.
I dont think anyone would think what this clinic does by throwing away all those is morally justified... its just how do we stop it...yes they need access to birth control and all that, OR how about just not have sex or have careful sex... thats an option too right?
Humans are one of the few species that has sex for pleasure. Well there’s always sex education, but due to our Puritan roots “adults” squirm at the idea of learning how to put a condom on, learning about STDs, learning about HIV or AIDs, different kinds of sex, consent, or sexual assault. Adults who have children don’t even want to teach their kids this.
I see your point, then what do you propose? abortions are fine? up to what month? assuming no medical situation , just plain abortion... till what month?
I’m in favor of late term abortions. An overwhelming amount of late term abortions are performed because the fetus isn’t viable or the mothers life is in danger. Assuming no medical emergency, I’m still in favor of late term abortions. No woman should be forced to give birth if she doesn’t want to.
It's not okay for it to begin from a religious perspective. We're supposed to have separation between church and the state
that Isn’t government endorsement of religion. It’s an individuals determination of when life begins. Which is what the entire abortion debate is about. Some people are informed by faith in religion some people are informed by a faith in absence of religion. The science is pretty clear. Life begins when a fertilized egg is implanted in the uterine wall.
How is an atheist informed by faith in absence of religion? You can also that you planted a tree when you plant the seed. But if you go and dig up that seed, dig you cut down that tree? No because the tree never existed. The only thing you did was take away the potential for a tree to grow and it's the same with abortion.
I don’t need God. My aunt pushed abstinence only education and guess what? Her youngest son became a father at 15. Meanwhile, I am Atheist and I have yet to get pregnant at all. Sure people sell their eggs but clearly these 1.7 million must’ve slipped through the cracks right? Funny you mention raising the age of consent. Recently, in Idaho Republicans blocked a bill that would eliminate child marriage. I will bet most of them call themselves pro-life.
"I don’t need God. " Well, hope you can explain that to him when its your time to leave this earth.". My aunt pushed abstinence only education and guess what? Her youngest son became a father at 15." It's a choice to fornicate and whore yourself around or into harlotry. He already wanted to ruin his life. He could have waited till 18 and marry before that. So that is on him. "Meanwhile, I am Atheist and I have yet to get pregnant at all. " Again, YOUR CHOICE. Atheism has 0 to do with it. I am a virgin at 27, by CHOICE. It is not religion. Its Life choices. It doesn't matter if you got pregnant or not. But where or not you're a virgin and pure till marriage or not. You're in the same boat as him. Firstly, we shouldn't even be doing this at all. Child marriage between a minor an adult SHOULD be eliminated. But so should sex before 18 and legal marriage too. Otherwise, they need to drop down the age for marriage and the ability to work before 18 as well. It would have saved everybody the heartache and confusion. You don't see how this is done on purpose to ruin others lives, yours included.
Even if you're 18 or above, an unwanted pregnancy can ruin your life. No the point was that God has nothing to do with life choices, so saying people need God is bullshit. Humans are one of the few species to have sex for pleasure. Dolphins are another. If teenagers want to have sex, they will do it. The best we can do is teach them to be safe.
Unwanted PREGNANCY? Sister. You open up your legs, you're a menstruating female, you're going to get PREGNANT. Common sense! God made humans to have SEX. He designed it that way. That is why he said, WAIT until you are married. Because you're running 90% of screwing everything UP. You cannot stop God or biology of how he designed us, or else you will DIE. That pleasure overall is designed for married couples ONLY. Because sex is a marriage, and marriage is all about sex. Sex is supposed to glorify and worship God with our bodies. Not just to create children. Because if not, and you abuse sex, not only are you at risk of getting pregnant by somebody who may not want the child or be serious with you, let alone marry you and just use you. You will god forbid end up like my late mother. With HPV and died of cervical cancer 3 eyars ago. You're not the one that has to bury somebody who is barely in her early 40's and become skin and bones. "If teenagers want to have sex, they will do it. The best we can do is teach them to be safe." That is why they married them at 13 the youngest. No, you are not having sex safely because now your sexually bound to every person your having sex with and if you plan to marry, 70%+ chance of getting a divorce. Because you people take life as a joke, and you have no idea what Sex really is. You cannot teach sex. It is LEARNED not taught.
I double date you to say that to someone who was raped and got pregnant. I'll give you $5 if you say it, but if you deck you in the face that's your problem. Say stupid shit, you face the consequences. I'm sure you agree.Why do your late mothers death of cervical cancer from sex? Maybe she was escaping you. Besides there's many ways to get cervical cancer. Of course you learn about sex from experience. But, you teach about how to put a condom on. You teach about birth control. You teach about STDs. You teach about consent. You teach about sexual assault. 70% of divorce huh? I'm going to need a source for that or I won't believe you. Preferably from a reliable news source.
I have done so for years, and have met people who were raped. The truth is the truth regardless off feelings. And you don't get that. This is 0 to do with consent. Every body teaches consent. But not doing life right. Had people lived their lives right God's way, many of us would not be in this fix. So no. Most of you asked to be in that position because you don't want to listen. Look it up online about premarital sex increases risk for divorce.
You are 21 years old, I don't need to do your homework oh, and I'm pretty sure your college teaches you to do your own research. And to prevent sexual assault, you do not have sex before marriage, you dress appropriately, you don't be around lustful men, and you be around people who are going to look out for you. Around drinking to get drunk, clubs and bars, watch your surroundings, and do not trust everybody. Not seeing you girls and young women put yourself in Jeopardy because you don't follow the basic safety rules for yourselves. You chatting up strange men that you don't really know, you know what the intentions are sexually, and you let them. I'm not talkin about those who end up kidnapped and didn't wait. I'm not talkin about just rape by incest. I'm talking about being raped by the people you know intimately. Ever since this country especially promoted premarital sex to be a law, sexual crimes has increased. And not just spousal rape.
Again, people don't need God in their lives. No you said it, so you provide the resource. People's sex lives is not your business, Nosy Nancy.
You people promote is pornography crap, and masturbation, and talk about how it's preventing sexual crimes is a load of BS. People who rape again nine ten times are not doing it for power, they doing it because of the uncontrollable lust and they feel entitled. Because they feel entitled, they're going to do what they're going to do anyway. I notice more so for myself, because my own father felt the same way when he was younger because he wasn't getting sex so he wanted to try to rape women. That was his mindset coming from somebody who had over 40 + partners. So maybe you need to get out of your ignorance and learn to be in the rapist shoes. Learn to get into the head and find out what motivates them to do what they do. But you know what? A lot of you don't give a damn that you sent the gulf been really does happen to you. And even that many of you still do what you do and you don't listen. And you put those like me who do not believe in premarital sex or any kind of sexual contact before marriage in jeopardy.
It is everybody's business when I'm using my taxpayer dollars for the sins that you commit. If I had families on my own, it'll be used to feed my own family. And then no guy wants to really touch you again married to you you want to know why because you have this attitude. I could provide you many resources that is not for some news source. So sorry, people do need God. He designed you, he design house is going to be, and if you don't like it you take it up with God. That's what I say. Because man in this world is not going to give a damn about you living or dead. You'll get raped udon bad that's what their minds it is. Because they not looking to protect you. Their concern is about serving the 1% which is named leader rich, and the rest of us are looking to kill and the billions. And you are foolish enough to give them power. When was happen you think they're going to protect you? No they're not going to protect you. You got to find answers of truth for yourself which you don't want to because you don't want the responsibility. I cannot respect somebody who refuses to be an adult.
I was born and raised in the hood with rates, murder, shooting, and all kinds of things happen. And I now live in a rural area what is the tistics have shown according two police reports that rapes in this place happens 80% of the time. Far more than robbery and murder. And this is from transitioning from New York City to Pennsylvania. You're very ignorant for your age. You want to know why we are the laughingstock of Every Other Nation on this planet, because we're a bunch of immature children in the bodies of adults who can be responsible for their own decisions. A Regressed nation that wants to kill each other and kill other people because they are not living American lifestyle is not a country I want to live in. Forcing to that burden is one thing. Killing your own children out of selfishness is another. A child should not be damned in cursed to hell because of your decision. You don't know what God can do for you and your life. But you have no faith nor belief and this is why many of you fail, this is why all of us fail. Truth is not about emotions. Truth is about setting you free so you won't continue to be an ignorant mindset. People are not being taught how to properly live anymore. I think about that before you try to talk to somebody about what is right and what is wrong. They have many reasons that leads to a person to be motivated to rape. And until you actually learn the psychology of it you will never be able to stop it. So keep thinking it's your body, your choice. Because men are going to say it's their body their choice too. And their choices are they going to be dealing with a sex robot, or going to other countries to find better women.
But you promoting sex before marriage, unless, you putting every innocent girl in young woman in harm's way. As many times as I've spoken to young boys and men concerning this topic, many of them say they do what they do because you women allow them to. So now they expect every woman to just give up sex. Because they both sexually fustrated then they start ready to go crazy. And pornography just makes it worse. And you want to know why they think so low of women.
I really and truly can not care less where you grew up. I think you're judgmental for your age. Again, what people do in their sex lives isn't your business. If a man thinks so low of women, that's his problem not mine. What motivates a person to rape is the fact that they're a rapist, it is never the victims fault. You are such a shitty human being.
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As a medical professional, I think I've gotten more compassionate. I'm sure I've cared for women who have had abortions. It really isn't up to me to decide if the woman has a good enough reason to have an abortion. I would have an abortion because I simply don't want kids and I do every thing possible to prevent pregnancy.
I bite my tongue on some of these questions because without going into detail I know people who have worked/counselled people who have been victims of rape/forced prostitution/abusive relationships etc and the stories are horrific... the idiots that think the decision to abort is taken lightly need a serious dose of compassion... but as I say, just my point of view.
That's a fair point. It amazes me that none of the pro-lifers even knew this happened. IVF is expensive but with people trying to have kids all the time, I thought more people knew how it worked as it is always mentioned in one of the ways to conceive a child.
The lawmakers, especially in the south, don't know what they're talking about, and are only doing it because they believe it's murder
Now there's an idea.
Exactly right. I didn’t even know about this until now.
@EmbraceThePain yeah it's too bad that the lawmaker who wrote Alabama's new law did. He's a pro-life hypocrite like the rest.
@1truekhaleesiNo, it’s just YOU think it is based off of your reasoning. It’s like when people on the pro-choice side create false equivalencies, trying to detect some inconsistencies with the pro-life side. So, you think he’s a hypocrite because you think that the fertilized eggs from the IVF clinic are identical to the situation of the baby inside a woman’s body, which it is not.
@EmbraceThePain you're right. It's not the same thing. One is in a petri dish and the other in a woman's womb. They're both fertilized eggs though. Unfortunately for you when asked about the fertilized eggs in IVF clinics that get thrown out the bills sponsor was quoted saying, “the egg in the lab doesn’t apply. It’s not a woman. She’s not pregnant.” It appears the government only cares about fertilized eggs once they're inside a woman's body.
@1truekhaleesiWell, compare the two for a second. If you leave the eggs in the dish to their own devices, what happens? NothingLikewise, you don’t even have to wait long for the human inside to start forming fingers, legs, a heart beat, etc.
@EmbraceThePain no you wait nine months for the fetus to be fully grown. How is that not a long time? That's a 3/4 of a year. Plus, the point is that pro-lifers consider both to be human life
I never said fully grown... The human inside can start feeling pain, acquire fingers, and acquire a heat beat, before it’s fully grown... Agajn, there’s a difference between the eggs in the IVF and the human inside the woman. It’s different, albeit, I do see what you’re getting at though. Let’s just agree to disagree.
@EmbraceThePain hmm whatever. All of that happens long, long after the egg is fertilized. They can't feel pain. You can thank science for that.
No this is a genuine question. I mean they’re fighting for the fetus. Or at least claim to be. How is a fetus in a petri dish any different from a fetus they would defend?
That's my point. There's no logic in their argument.
Then there is no reason to supply an answer.
I would have an abortion if I got pregnant. I want to decrease the number of abortions so I am voting the party that insures birth control is easily accessible, everyone has a high school diploma, and reasonable healthcare. All of that has been proven to reduce the number of abortions.
Can we still hear the logical reason though? Lol would be nice
Oh I honestly hadn’t even given it much thought, just want to see if he/she was open to changing their mind based on facts. Got the answer I thought I would get.
I see lolFair enough haha
I’ve already looked at both sides. It was only a couple years ago that I decided I am pro-choice. It’s been proven that when abortion is legal and regulated, the number of abortions decrease.
To be fair for me if a fertilized egg sits there and isn’t discarded, I doubt it becomes a baby. But a fetus within a healthy woman without an abortion likely becomes a baby. But I honestly don’t know much about fertilized eggs so would they become a baby if left sitting on the counter?
No because they feed off the mother— like many parasites. It is a fertilized egg nonetheless. Which falls under the definition of what pro-lifers think is human.
Gotcha. So that’s probably why a prolifer isn’t as concerned with the eggs. But they are concerned with the fetus being murdered because letting nature take its course that fetus becomes a baby... irregardless of a parasite.
These are both talking about fertilized eggs. Whether it be in a petri dish or a womans womb. My question is, why do pro-lifers only care about the one in a womans body? I think all children are parasites.
no they are not parasites, not even close... there is at least 15 distinctions between a parasite and a fetus to name 2 A parasite is an organism of one species that lives in or on an organism of another species and receives nourishment from the host.Parasites are invasive organism that come from an outside or external source. A fetus comes from an inside or internal source (ie fertilized egg)
@TripleAce well thats for a different conversation. Due to my blood type, there's a good chance my body will interpret a fetus as a parasite and my body will induce a miscarriage to protect my life. Again, that’s a different conversation.
its not a parasite lol... your body does that with many things, there is a huge list of problems you can get because you body thinks its being invaded by something foreign... something as basic as eczema and even worse things like vasculitis where your body attacks your blood vessels and you get strokes because of itbut its not because the baby is a parasite...
@TripleAce I know. My body thinks the fetus “is something foreign.” There’s a shot to prevent to this from happening but it doesn’t seem to work.
I gotta say I'm not a fan of the idea of throwing them out. Seems just as fucked up as abortion to me
I mean, I have very good friends that were test tube babies and the fact their weren't conceived in a natural way doesn't make them any less human
They should perhaps research more.
I would agree
I've seen this argument before by the way. Just because we aren't as vocal about it doesn't mean our opinion is any different
They aren’t being used though and after several years, they’re discarded. Thanks to science, we can keep just about anything alive that should’ve died a long time ago.
No you aren’t as vocal until those same cells are moved from the petri dish to a womans womb.
They probably shouldn't have been produced in the first place if nearly 2 million are just scrapped. Like I said, it's a lack of information that causes people not to talk about it. I had no idea they were producing that many embryos and just getting rid of them. That's honestly disgusting
I mean I knew they were being discarded and I never liked the idea of that but I didn't know it was that many. Sounds like a waste of money as well
IVF is very expensive and during IVF, as many eggs as possible are used. Once the couple becomes pregnant, those eggs go on the back burner. No many people don’t know about this. Too busy policing embryos in a womans womb but not the same ones in a petri dish.
In vitro fertilization is also not a common means. It's been around for decades but only 8 million have been produced from it so yeah. Makes sense most people wouldn't be thinking about it. I'm pretty sure a lot of people don't even know what it is. Stop trying to edge this "waaah it's about controlling women" horse shit.
8 million babies I should say
This is 100% about punishing women, recently an Alabama law maker brought up that medical facilities have fertilized eggs that are discarded during the in vitro fertilization process. Under this law – that is an abortion. Ahh you have decided you don’t care about these embryos because you think it doesn’t happen enough? (Keep lying to yourself and trying to explain your hypocrisy.)However, when asked how the law would affect those eggs – the Alabama bill’s sponsor said, “The egg in the lab doesn’t apply. It’s not a woman. She’s not pregnant.”That just proves this is 100% about controlling women. I know a lot of people even choosing IVF over adoption. My best friend did IVF.
That literally didn't prove anything. You literally just showed that Alabama's laws are consistent and do worry about IVF embryos when you claimed that pro-lifers don't. Also why tf did you even ask this question if all you're gonna do is deny the opposition? You just wanted an echo chamber"Ahh you have decided you don't care about these embryos because you think it doesn't happen enough"Nah dipshit I never said that. Learn how to read. I was clearly saying most people don't research IVF because it's not common. Over the course of 40 years 8 million children have been produced from IVF, literally over 100 million babies are born world wide each year. Another thing1.7 million is how many embroys have been discarded over the practice has existed for the whole world.The US alone tops that number in regular abortions in like 2 years. So again, that's why it's gotten more attention, it's significantly more prevalent
Try reading the quote again. The lawmaker that proposed Alabamas law doesn’t care about the embryos in IVF clinics.
"An Alabama law maker brought up that medical facilities have fertilized eggs that are discarded during the in vitro fertilization process *and didn't care*. Under this law – that *should be* an abortion." Oh I see what you meant now, the way you worded it it sounded like you were saying the law Alabama passed outlawed getting rid of embryos. The asterisk are what you should have said to be more clear. Regardless my point still stands that people simply aren't thinking about IVF, if it was brought more to media attention, more would speak against getting rid of it. I do recall now when I was in 10th grade my Bio teacher was talking about people opposing getting rid of IVF embryos
And my point still stands, not prevalant enough of an issue so pro-lifers don’t care. And here I thought they stood for all things they consider to be “life.” How hypocritical.
Not prevalent enough so people don't realize it. That's what it is, not that they don't care. Stop twisting words. Like I said. Of the 7.7 BILLION people on Earth, only 8 million were conceived via IVF. You want to use that one senator as an example that pro-lifers don't care? Well I do so that's 1:1 and we cancel each other out for all you know
Yes I will use that one senator. He wrote the damn law.
I would be okay with that. Too many kids in foster care.
I suppose that’s one reason, but the real problem is just tossing away biological humans for convenience.