I am a liberal by every political test I have ever taken, score very similar to Ghandi in my belief system concerning politics and government. I am labeled "alt right" by the mainstream leftists and there are millions like me. The left has gone so far left that the center looks like the alt right to them.
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Ben Shapiro is Nazi related?
Are you saying all that stuff is acceptable?
My poiint still stands that conservatives aren't treated on that level on the internet period.
"conservatives aren't treated on that level on the internet"Aren't they? Getting demonetized, shadowbanned, outright banned, deplatformed, etc, is happening all the time. There's no shortage of instances of progressives literally calling people who are simply not as left as they are nazis.
For the average conservative they're not treated that way on the internet. People that promote National Socialism on the internet can get their discord servers banned while everyone in that server getting banned on discord including the UK is using discord to find supporters of it to arrest them. Even teenagers. They also don't get demonetized, they get banned immediately if found. That's why on YouTube the only videos you can find from Nazi's are titled in another language, so it takes longer for it to get banned. I don't see that happening to conservatives. Channels such as the ThuleanPerspective and Cultured Thug have been banned while people like Steven Crowder are very successful on the internet and haven't been banned.
Being banned or not doesn't mean people don't all them Nazis and hate them. People like Crowder are considered gateways to the "far-right." Crowder hasn't been banned, but they demonetized every video regardless of content and is unfavored in the algorithm. He's successful because he took the time to build a subscription service so he didn't have to rely on YouTube. Smaller creators that don't have that to fall back on and people be they "far-right," mild conservatives, centrists or the dissenting left are increasingly struggling to stay monetized and unbanned. Obviously the more overtly in opposition and controversial gets targeted first, but the point is that anyone who is deemed to have the wrong opinions is at greater risk of losing their channel.So Crowder isn't banned today. He shouldn't be demonetized but the did it anyway, if he does taken off of YouTube why only then is it a problem? I'm sure Varg and this Cultured Thug guy was demonetized before being taken down. With all Nazi big tech removes, they'll need new ones to fill the vacancy and find different dissenters to label. It purity spirals out of control until we're all considered Nazis.
Ah, this is based on a single email "exposed" by "Project Veritas", a right wing group of criminals. It's so terrible, they post it twice, and, unsurprisingly, not in context.www.projectveritas.com/.../Have you ever heard of the "Everyone Has 6 Degrees of Separation From Kevin Bacon" myth? It's not true, factmyth.com/.../ but the email talks about them being 1 or 2 steps to Nazis, not being Nazis themselves (just enablers; Quislings, if you will). That seems a fair conclusion, to me.
And, finally, everyone on this site is one or two steps from a Nazi, since there are several people pushing holocaust denial and National Socialism on here.I wouldn't have needed to write this, otherwise.Why I might call someone a Nazi. ↗
I personally voted for Trump because of the lack of qualified candidates. Prior to Trump running, my opinion of him was not very high. I can understand why liberals think he is ruining the country, he enforces the laws of the US in more of the traditional sense. Liberals want to move our nation to a more secular, & socialist type of gov't. So much could be said here but you mention racism. I have no doubt it is an issue. You're wrong that conservative don't frown on racism. Liberals take it to far to the point it looses it meaning. Meaning it is not a personal matter but rather moral. And Liberals have little to no respect for conservative's religious beliefs.So is Trump ruining the Republican Party? It's hard to be concerned about a party when it is just used to get elected. Has he voted Republican-I would imagine, he is rich, that is who the Republicans protect. There is no party to represent the general citizenry. The days are gone when the Democrats represented the working force. As for Trump, he isn't a politician & surprisingly he fights for America.
@PressOn if you read what I said again I said I don't believe all conservatives are racists but again there still are racist conservatives you can't denied the ignorant ones that make racist statements and comments. I literally saw a conservative the another day on facebook (a Canadian) trying to say a Sikh NDP should remove his turban to respectful in court. She try to defend how her racism is not racist even though you have no right to ask someone to remove their religious ware and someone pointed out by asking does she say that to Jews or Christians so they can be respectful. So you can't say there isn't a racism issue with the Conservatives because a lot of liberals or other parties see it constantly from the conservatives side. You can't say I'm wrong when you and other Conservatives barely ever correct these ignorant racist fuckers lol.
I really don't do social media or have any other platform (except perhaps here). And I can only speak for myself when I say that true racism is bad. It's the best I can do for you
@PressOn but fine I will say there are racist liberals to be honest there just ignorant ass fools in every race that are racist but apparently only white racists are the problem. So yeah I am not bashing on conservatives I am just saying in my first comment how its weird that conservatives get mad that liberals think their racist yet do nothing about the racist conservatives. If the party care really they try more to to correct the racism.
Most conservatives are obviously not racist and speak out against it. That doesn’t stop them from being called racist. So if nothing can stop you from being called racist then you might as well ignore people calling you that.Trump isn’t really doing much to ruin the party. The progressive won’t be swayed so don’t worry about them, but the center - the ones who swing elections - are receiving him well enough. It’s progressives making Trump seem wholly necessary to have in office. He baits them into showing their true colours.
When libs call for censorship and taking away guns they are fking commies
But something like 50% of libs are pro gun & many are against censorship so it goes back to what I said. The leaders on both sides need people to hate each other. Otherwise we don’t need those leaders.
50% of libs pro gun? Not in my country
In u. s. where there are probably more guns than people
If he had just used the term "far right extremist", it'd be too plausible. Labeling it "Nazis" makes it seem much more ridiculous, thus garnering sympathy for the plight of the poor downtrodden censored and abused Alt-Right douchebag.
@HungLikeAHorsefly Is there a day they do not play the victim card? If there is a word to describe it then if you ask me its "Weak".
Yes. That's the irony in all of this. These clowns are popular because people think they're standing up to the Left for... something. In fact, weak people idolize other weak people.
Love your response on @Anjali090's opinion.
They said "1 to 2 steps to nazis", not Nazis.
@goaded Would you say maybe it's just one goose step away? ;)
So your saying Ben Shapiro wants to put Jews into gas chambers?
He isn’t but other conservatives are. I’m familiar with Shapiro and I respect him.
Those aren't conservatives, those are national socialists.
There’s this guy on YouTube called Stephen moyneiuex or whatever. He calls himself a conservative. He got banned on Twitter for sharing race mixing is wrong. So yeah they are racists.
Still censorship of freedom of speech.There are a lot of black people who believe that too.
They are also racists in my book. Love doesn’t care about race.
True but you can't just ban views because they are wring, all you do is force them underground where they grow.
You are a moron
What conservative is racist? Stefan Molnyeux isn't a conservative (anarcho capitalist actually) and being against race mixing isn't racist (unless you believe that Muhammed Ali and Malcom X where racist?), wanting to preserve those you see as your own people is not racist (if that was the case that would make every nation in the world (except for, ironically, primarily white nations) racist as they do not allow for other groups to be in their countries. Only white nations allow for significant immigration). Just because you don't agree doesn't make it racist (nor do I for that matter, I'm perfectly fine with race mixing I just don't agree with the destruction of our cultures as is being advocated by many on the left). So as @White-American89 pointed out Ben Shapiro is not a Nazi. Neither is Dennis Praguer (a jew himself), nor is Tucker Carlson (hell he isn't even really a conservative (he rips into them as often as he does democrats). Also Nazi's where socialists (National socialist party) and wanted to control the government, business, and tell people what to do which is the antithesis to conservatism but is very much on the left (not saying all but when you go to far on the left you get NAZI's, Fascism (which was derived from socialism), and socialism). In short just because you call some one a Nazi doesn't mean they are, its just used to justify silencing and attacking your political enemies to push a political agenda (ironically not unlike what the Nazi's did with jews and socialists did with the rich (whom they then mass murdered).
Stefan Molyneux is an idiot. He’s read Ayn Rand. He’s then made numerous videos showing how he totally and utterly misunderstood her. Yet claims he knows what he’s talking about.He’s a racist despite reading Ayn Rand. Which ifnyou understand Ayn Rand, your racism should disappear.Though most who agree with him, will say their views are not racist, if you understand Ayn Rand, then you know that those views are actually racist. If you are just a regular liberal lefty, well everything is racist to you and you’re probably intellectually lazy anyways and color all right wing ideas as racist.So the left censors the racists. As a result, their numbers grow. Instead, we should let them say what they want. And let those of us who know better, to enter the arena and combat their ideas with better ones. Like Ayn Rand. Who is correct and Stefan molyneux is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong. Sorry guys. And yes, his ideas are racist, even though he truly believes they are not. But he’s too stupid to see it along with the alt right and all the other national white whatever’s who think white people need their own country to preserve their culture.
Also, the left is extremely racist. But don’t ever try to tell them that. Yes, the left is racist against minorities. Also whites. The left is just crazy all together but they couldn’t possibly see it. The left is probably MORE racist than Stefan molynyneux, surprisingly. But I won’t go into that.
I guess my point is, reading Ayn Rand will dispel all racist ideas. Including those from the left. And they have a lot lol.
"He isn’t but other conservatives are."Can you even name one that says that?Stephen Molyneux is at worst an anarchist. He doesn't trust the government with anything. His politics is not identitarian and he doesn't have a problem with race mixing. But because he isn't progressive friendly he gets shutdown. But more importantly, even if he was racist, he should still be able to say his piece -- especially on twitter where a precedent has been set about the nature of the space.De-platforming, censoring and silencing people is for "national socialists."
Jesus, you guys don't have a clue about who the Nazis were, do you? Nazi's were strictly analogous to extreme Conservatives, in the American spectrum, and were not Leftists in any way, shape or form.I mean, don't most Conservatives think there are only two genders and if you've got a penis, you're a dude no matter what you call yourself? Yet you have no problems looking at the Nazis and saying they're "socialists" because they called themselves "socialist" even though they did very little that anybody who knows anything about history or economics would call "socialist".
@HungLikeAHorsefly the Nazis had many comparable left wing policies such as gun control, free healthcare, authoritarian goverment, banning of free speech, denying political opponents a platform, assaulting political opponents, boycotting businesses of political opponents, jailing political opponents, banning political parties, rejection of Christianity, vilifying racial and religious groups etc.Comparing conservatism to Nazism is just plain wrong.
Well...- Germany had strict gun control laws in place long before the Nazis came to power. In fact, the NSDAP actually loosened restrictions for everybody other than those they sent to the concentration camps.- Nobody has banned free speech, and it isn't a position of anybody on the Left. I know you guys are all butthurt about Facebook and YouTube, but you're confusing not being allowed to say something with having to take responsibility for your words and actions.- Assaulting political opponents? It's difficult to compare Antifa to the Conservatives in Charlottesville or the Proud Boys who wrecked a tavern right down the street from my house a couple of months ago, or the Conservative militia groups who threatened violence here in Oregon a few days ago. - Boycotting businesses? Like when Conservatives boycotted Nike for their Colin Kaepernick endorsement? Or Starbucks for having red cups? Or Amazon for supporting a lawsuit against the immigration ban? Or Nordstrom for dropping Ivanka Trump's clothing line? Or Ben & Jerry's for supporting BLM? or the NFL, Apple, AT&T, Macy's, Pepsi, Crystler, Google, Best Buy, REI and several dozen other companies that have been boycotted by Conservatives over just the past few years? Nice story, bro.- Jailing political opponents. Like Hillary Clinton?- Banning political parties. I don't know what this is about.- Rejection of Christianity. I could argue most Conservatives rejected Christianity en masse a long time ago, but on a superficial level, you're right.- Vilifying racial and religious groups. Like Mexicans? Like Muslims? Like that time when the POTUS said he wanted to ban all Muslims during his campaign? You guys literally elected a guy who promised to ban an entire religious group from the United States. And then we can talk about the Wall you guys want to put up to keep Mexicans from getting in...
@HungLikeAHorsefly"Nazis... were not Leftists"I'm happy to call Nazis authoritarians or totalitarians, but that's not strictly right or left. There are extreme conservatives that are extremely libertarian, so no I don't think you can conflate extreme conservatives with Nazis. Extreme leftists have the same thing, the extreme libertarians are not nazis, and the authoritarian leftists are more like nazis."Nobody has banned free speech"Not for a lack of want. It's all "I believe in free speech, except for this this and this and for you you and you.""you're confusing not being allowed to say something with having to take responsibility for your words and actions."More bendy language. In other words, what you say is fine and people you disagree with should be the ones suffering consequences.I means freedom from legal consequences and I think we're going to see that yes, in fact people are entitled to that space as regulation comes down on them -- as they have essentially become platforms that are extensions of public space."It's difficult to compare Antifa to the Conservatives in Charlottesville or the Proud Boys who wrecked a tavern right down the street from my house a couple of months ago, or the Conservative militia groups"Actually it's really easy to compare them. *Don't assault political opponents full stop*There's no shortage of attacks of Trump supporters.Then even the small stuff like milkshakes in UK and eggs here in Australia.Who incites that stuff is also important, you can see lefty types like carlos maza calling for milkshaking and not getting the same shit for something more tame a non-leftist would say. And then when a milkshaking happens and the person hit turns around and body slams the perp, sorry but that's the dick with the beverage starting shit."Vilifying racial and religious groups"Like *illegal* immigrants and *Islamists.*And so are we just going to ignore when it's the left doing it by pointing at someone e
@White-American89 I had to say something to this post, when you said "but you can't just ban views because they are wring, all you do is force them underground where they grow."I think everyone understands 'wring' was intended to be 'WRONG' and that is why the Great Founders wrote the Bill of Rights, and that the FIRST was about FREEDOM OF SPEECH! Once you start to censor speech, and 'unpopular' ideas, you destroy the ideal of the Great Founders!! They wrote that, BECAUSE 'unpopular speech' is NECESSARY in any FREE society!! But, we should be respectful, and Disagree, in an Agreeable way! Open debate, was how they created the United States, from a group of different colonies!Suppressing free speech, and the open venue of open debate, and redress of wrongs, most certainly leads to underground, subversive movements, as history has shown, time and time again!
@Kaazsz I don't generally agree with him and I would say from what I've seen I don't think he is racist. I think he believes that their are inherent differences between the races and I think he believes he has strong evidence for that but I do think the data he has is flawed. I do think he believes he is smarter then he is but again, I don't think he is racist. Its also not racist to want to preserve your group. Again, if that's the case then you have to state that every single non white nation in the world is racist, that Africa and the middle east are all racist, that asia is racist (as only white nations allow for immigration and the mixing we see). As I've said I don't care about race mixing I care about the preservation of culture which as we are seeing in Europe is not happening, their culture is destroyed by these outside groups who migrate in and don't respect the culture and that is creating a lot of animosity and anger (and rightly so) but I do not think that is inherent to race personally. That doesn't mean some one who thinks that these groups cannot get along is inherently racist, you need to believe in innate superiority of one race over another race (and not believe that their are simply differences that ultimately balance out) and that this in turn and alone determines their worth, in order to be racist. I don't think that is a idea that is exhibited by Conservatives in general (who should be meritocratic by their nature (that is part of what conservatives, in the US anyway, believe (as conservatives are classical liberals, again in the US)).
@HungLikeAHorsefly National Socialist Party, that's what Nazi stands for. Notice the "Socialist", that is left leaning. They where socialist. Fascism is also derived from socialism. They where left leaning, power is in the government, conservatives are against that in the US (or should be if they are a true conservative), they where for socialized medicine, they where for the group, the state not the individual which is what liberals are for and conservatives are against. The notion that their isn't an extreme side to the left is absurd. If you wanted to compare an extreme on conservatives you would have to go towards religious fundamentalism not Nazi's who where the exact opposite. Again, its literally in the name and in their doctrine, not sure how people on the left don't see that (or is it your just unable to recognize that their is such a thing as going to far?).
Define traditional Nazi Views and compare them to traditional Communist views. Then give us your answer again. Sounds like to me you're going by what somebody has told you and not what you have discerned on your own through non-regulated study.
@JackSmy well said
Well Nancy Pelosi's ia an idiot in my opinion too just like Stephen. I neither call any of them a true representitive of their own parties or base ideologies. They are outliers.
@AllThatSweetJazz I'm going to ask you the same thing that I asked her I would like you or anyone out here actually Define true fascism and not be able to separate it from communism.
@AllThatSweetJazz Wow, there are a lot of responses here. I'll start with yours, since you seem to be the most thoughtful of the bunch.I agree that a strict comparison between Nazis and basically anybody in the United States isn't possible, but Nazism is an extreme form of Conservatism. Some Conservatives in the United States literally are Neo-Nazis; the fact that groups like this are non-existent on the Left is our first clue here.Re: freedom of speech. True, there are some people who want to ban "hate speech", but I don't think most Leftists agree with them and it certainly isn't part of Leftist ideology. I mean, who are the majority supporter of the ACLU? Also, throughout the years and even very recently, Socialist speech has been stifled by various Conservative groups throughout the nation so it isn't like Liberals have the market cornered on this.Confusing a legal right with social repercussion for unpopular speech isn't "bendy" language. Nobody has infringed your legal right to say whatever you like. They do get angry when you say something stupid, though. That's not ambiguous. Fair enough. I agree that nobody should assault anybody else for their political beliefs. Period. And you're right - the instigator matters. Which is why we wonder why the Right routinely elects politicians who attempt and/or succeed in inciting violence. I can provide links on this, if you like.Re: vilifying religious groups. No, not just *illegal* immigrants and not just *Islamists*. YouTube is full of videos of Conservative folk espousing their ideas about Dearborn and Sharia Law. There have been numerous cases of vandalism and even arson attempts at mosques throughout the country, and the fact that Conservatives don't seem to know the difference between what a legal immigrant and an illegal immigrant can do and how speaks volumes about the fact that legality isn't a primary concern for most of them.
@HungLikeAHorsefly Nazism is not a conservative or liberal thing it's something else just like communism is not an extreme form of liberalism.
@White-American89 I would argue Communism is an extreme form of Liberalism (in the American sense of the word). You are getting at a good point, though. The traditional left-right spectrum doesn't really work all that well when you try to describe some of the more radical ideologies. That's why modern political scientists use a four-square to reason about things. Here's an example:miro.medium.com/.../1*ETYHHas9_Qy4YEaZxaTv0Q.jpegFascism is still a right-wing ideology and Communism is still a left-wing ideology, but visualizing things in this way calls out the fact that things like American Conservatism (Neo-Conservatism) is much more invested in individual liberty than Fascism, and free market Liberals are very far away from anything authoritarian or dictatorial in nature.
@KaliMe Here's my attempt. FWIW, I have a degree in political theory, which focuses on things like this. My mentor was a German political scientist who survived the Holocaust and then subsequently lived in Communist Poland before coming to the United States. I was also a card carrying member of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) for a number of years. So, I like to think I know what I'm talking about when it comes to who's a Socialist and who isn't. Anyway, here's my take on the subject.---Fascism is an ideology of extreme nationalism. At its core, a Fascist regime focuses on the primacy of the nation, its identity and the cohesion of its citizens into one ethno-national group (Germans, Italians, Danish, etc).The philosophy of Fascism includes:- Palingenesis; the "rebirth" of the nation from dysfunction, weakness and decadence into a strong, modern state. They actively prohibit things they see as limiting factors for the rebirth of the state. Historically, this includes homosexuality, various forms of art, and science that does not agree with the party's agenda. - Autarky and mixed economies. Fascists vehemently oppose both Marxist Socialism and free market Capitalism. Marxism because of its focus on globalization, the primacy of the worker, its advocacy of egalitarianism and its idea of class struggle as the driver of the economy. Capitalism because they think it's decadent and due to its focus on citizens as individuals rather than as members of the nation. They nationalize industries they think will help them achieve economic self-sufficiency (autarky) and leave the rest of the economy to the free market. Fascists preserve private property rights in all cases; even when they nationalize an industry, they rely heavily on corporatism (business owners working with the government) to function. They preserve the profit motive as well; the benefit of the nation is the primary goal of the market, but profit is a close second.
- Social Darwinism, anti-egalitarianism and focus on traditional roles. Fascists establish a concept of a "correct" social order and actively work to make it a reality. The specifics vary by nation, but all Fascist regimes are Social Darwinists; they believe in survival of the fittest within society (and sometimes biologically). They believe the goal of social justice and/or equality isn't realistic and does not result in a powerful nation, and they typically oppose social welfare. In cases in which Fascists have created social welfare programs, they limit benefits to only the group of people they feel symbolize the ideal social order (i. e., racially pure Ayrians). Additionally, men and women are expected to assume traditional gender roles (men working, women raising children and running the household). Members of society who the regime considers "weak", such as homosexuals, old people and disabled people, are treated as second class citizens.- Nationalism. Fascists are fiercely nationalistic. Everything is centered around how great the nation is, and they make heavy use of symbols, flags, slogans and historical figures in propaganda. They foster a sense of fetishism for the military and police, and a cult of personality for individuals who characterize the ideal national identity. They're very much opposed to globalization, fair trade relations and international organizations. They nearly always go to war as a means to support their militaristic national identity. In a lot of cases, they're also economically isolationist; they make heavy use of tariffs and import substitution as economic tools.
If you agree with my description of Fascist ideology, then it should be obvious what common elements it shares with American Conservatism. The tools employed are not the same - Conservatives don't support totalitarianism and they believe in individual liberty - but the goals are undeniably similar. I feel like I need to point out, though, that this doesn't mean American Conservatives are Nazis or anything of the sort. It's just a fact that Fascism is on "their side" of the spectrum (when using a 1-axis chart), just as the kind of brutal Communism employed by Stalin and the Chinese are on the Liberal's side. It means each side has similar goals to Fascism and Communism. It doesn't mean we will employ the same methods to achieve them (or achieve them at all). It DOES mean we run the risk, though...
@HungLikeAHorsefly "Conservatives in the United States literally are Neo-Nazis""Nazism is an extreme form of Conservatism"In what way? In that if you divide the political spectrum strictly in two then they had to fall on one side or the other? That doesn't mean they have conservatives has anything to do with nazis. It's an innappropriate association that is only meant to allow people to be dismissive of conservatives without proper consideration."the fact that groups like this are non-existent on the Left"1. There are groups like that on the left.2. They operate more broadly and don't need to be "grouped." You don't need to be associated with a group to be "far-left"."it certainly isn't part of Leftist ideology"It's a part of authoritarian ideology, which isn't exclusive to a wing.I'm libertarian-left and free speech is important to me, but not to authoritarian leftists, similarly libertarian-right also values free speech and the authoritarians don't like it. Trying to boil things down to only right and left is anacronistic."Socialist speech has been stifled by various Conservative groups"In cases where that happens, fuck those conservatives too.But they're obviously on the worse end of bias from big tech right over the last few years. Activism from progressives lead to policy implementation that blew back in their face, but it's mostly effected conservatives. Although ironically that's probably going to have a positive effect on conversatives appearance in the long run. By being biased against them they make consevatives seem like they've got something interesting to say, and the ones that don't get removed from platforms or demonetized into the ground are the ones that are very mainstream friendly. Basically they're inadvertently gentrifying the right and making them look good.
@HungLikeAHorsefly "They do get angry when you say something stupid"No one on the right is complaining about anger, that's just par for the course. It's what happens to them because of that anger. Send mean words their way, fine, but they shouldn't lose access to every major platform in sillicon valley because of someone else's outrage -- especially when it's misinformed or just plain unreasonable."the Right routinely elects politicians who attempt and/or succeed in inciting violence."I haven't seen this, but I've seen no shortage of it from the left so I'll just take your word for it and call it a wash. We both understand that it's bad."YouTube is full of videos of Conservative folk espousing their ideas about Dearborn and Sharia Law."So? I don't know what "dearborn" is but I don't see why they shouldn't say their piece about sharia law."Conservatives don't seem to know the difference between what a legal immigrant and an illegal immigrant can do"I don't watch much conservative content but the few I do seem to understand it perfectly fine. Maybe the politicians don't. I guess I'll fine out come GOP debates. But listening to all the crap from democrats and also from UK politicians, I have to feel like there's just this slice of the left that are just willfully ignorant or something crazy like that. I haven't heard of anything policy related from conservatives that doesn't make the distinction. After watching the democrat debates it's crazy what they think about what's going on at the border... constantly going on about kids being separated and completely disregarding any context or possibility of another explanation.
@HungLikeAHorsefly Basically I think all this began as something uniquely toxic that had been festering in "left-wing" spaces and with them throwing shit naturally the right threw back because they're only human and so the polarizing rhetoric begins and pushes everyone farther apart. Part of me thinks there'll be civil war. Part of me thinks once big tech gets regulated, the conservatives will come back in and progressives will complain even though nothing can be done and they'll just run out of steam. A naive hope I guess.
@AllThatSweetJazz I totally agree that Facebook, YouTube and the like shouldn't prevent people from saying what they want. I do think people shouldn't say things that are demonstrably, factually incorrect but even that shouldn't be limited in my opinion.I also don't think these tech companies should be regulated. I think, if Conservatives don't like it, that they should find a market based solution. We know that no company is too big to fail, and Facebook is already starting to bleed users to other social media sites. I mean, do you really want the government to tell businesses what they can and can't do, beyond the bare minimum necessary to ensure fair competition? re: Dearborn. Dearborn, Michigan is a Muslim enclave. Conservatives love to claim they're trying to implement Sharia Law there, and it's simply not true. I listed it as an example of blatant prejudice against Muslims that has nothing to do with radical Islamists. Dearborn is a prominent example but it's by far not the only one. And obviously it's not all Conservatives... it just certainly isn't any Liberals doing it.The Left does have a tendency to overplay the issue on the border, but the fact still remains it is an issue and it isn't THAT much different than what went on during the debates. Although, I'm guessing here; I didn't actually watch them because I can't stomach that shit.I don't think there will be a Civil War. I think the current period of nationalism / proto-Fascism is a reaction to the very long period of progressivism we've experienced over the past several decades, and to Barack Obama's two terms (which instituted a new level of Leftist ideology into the contemporary political debate). I have faith that while we like to talk shit to one another, most Americans are not willing to see their neighbors come to harm over any of this bullshit. I think.
@HungLikeAHorsefly "Conservatives don't like it, that they should find a market based solution."It's extremely difficult to compete with YouTube and Facebook. I think there are companies that are too big to let fail. When you have a monopoly form like YouTube has over video content then losing that I think would be very bad. You can't compete with YouTube though, even though it's technically "failing." YouTube is run at a loss. So you're not just competing with YouTube, you're competing with Google, everything it owns and what owns google. There are of course other platforms but they're all small and competing with each other and everyone is on YouTube. I'm not far-right, so I don't believe it's acceptable to let corporations who control massive resources be able to lock you out from competing if so inclined, that's a monopoly.The only reason there's been small success with other platforms is because of purges of users from the big tech companies, so there's a set of creators especially political commentators that aren't authoritarian left who *have to* use something other than things like pateron and twitter so they coordinate and are able to support other platforms."do you really want the government to tell businesses what they can and can't do, beyond the bare minimum necessary to ensure fair competition?"1. I don't think YouTube represents fair competition2. Yes, actually. As a prime example I want the government to ensure companies conform to environmental standards. Though I would want what a business is permitted to do vary with scale. Hence my issue with big tech."Conservatives love to claim they're trying to implement Sharia Law there"Okay, maybe that's not happening, I don't know. It's okay for them to be wrong about muslims. Muslims don't get to be above criticism. Where that crosses into dangerous rhetoric, stop that. Same goes for the progressives, too many are affording leniency to progressives for despite claims.
"it isn't THAT much different than what went on during the debates"You mean what they said about it isn't going to be that different from what is really happening?Naturally they're all throwing shade at Trump, at one point one says that '7 people have died under his care'. Well, they didn't die "under his care." They actually died trying to cross a river and wander the desert.All that shit about kids in cages -- do we let them wander the desert instead? No, take care of them. The candidates complain about the conditions, when it's the democrats that blocked the funding for the border facilities because they apparently can't stand giving anything to Trump.Multiple times they conflate hispanics with illegal immigrants.Yeah, it's hard to stomach."most Americans are not willing to see their neighbors come to harm over any of this bullshit."Most, maybe. But it doesn't take most people to be involved for a war to happen. There's definitely violence that has been escalating, and people seem stuck on that trajectory. It's not just the US, it's everywhere. UK, Australia, Europe."I think the current period of nationalism / proto-Fascism is a reaction to the very long period of progressivism"The control-left is proto-facism. Most, if not all, fascist governments were a outgrowths of socialist governments. Authoritarians don't like authoritarians of other views to be in power so there's opposing proto-facism, then there' people who get scared at all this and are inadvertently reactionary-fascists when they just want it all to stop."Nationalism"That's a hard word to pin down. It depends on what you mean by it.Caring about your nation and national identity is good, belief in nation states is good, aggressive supremacy over other nations is not.
To use Orwell's version of nationalism, I think it would be a belief that the nation itself is unwaveringly good. In this way he denounced the far-left as something like communist nationalists. In that usage, a globalist can be said to be a nationalist. Whereas I would prefer nationalism to be what we call people who believe in nation states rather than a global state (globalism) or no states at all (anarchism).
@AllThatSweetJazzMy apologies; I overlooked an entire block of text in one of your replies.I clearly said *some* Conservatives in the United States are Neo-Nazis. There aren't many of them. I was just trying to point out that among the people who are literally consider themselves Nazis... none of them are Liberals. Of course I think we can all agree that they're also idiots, so take that with a grain of salt. And yes, they do have to fall somewhere. Keep in mind that even if we split the spectrum four ways (Authoritarian/Libertarian, Communalist/Individualist), they still land in the same quadrant as Neo-Conservatives (although not Libertarians). In order to make the case they aren't structurally of the same cloth as Neo-Conservatives, you'd have to devise a new classification system. I'd be very interested in what that might look like. Either way, it's much more difficult to make a case that Neo-Conservatives are NOT related to Fascists than it is the other way around. Can you give me an example of Neo-Nazi groups on the Left?I agree that attempts to boil things down onto a 1-axis spectrum is anachronistic. See my response to White-American89 for my views on that. Nonetheless, when we speak of political ideologies, we still classify them as right- or left-wing and as I mentioned earlier, even when we apply modern political classification, American Neo-Conservatives are still in the same class as Fascists. So I still feel like this is an accurate way to group things. I wouldn't say the same for Libertarians or some other Conservative ideologies.What policy implementations that blew up have affected Conservatives?
@AllThatSweetJazz Well, I think we disagree on the point about Fascism growing out of Socialist regimes. I think it's probably true that Fascism grows out of *opposition to* Socialist regimes, but in and of itself Fascism is fundamentally different than Marxist Socialism in nearly every way. They use the same tools, as I said earlier (statism, totalitarianism, etc.) but their goals are radically different. That's the problem a lot of us see in modern Conservatism - it doesn't use the same tools, but it shares common goals with Fascism. Just as a lot of the Left shares common goals with Communism.
So I guess my whole point in all of this is to say Conservatives risk sliding into Fascism and Liberals risk sliding into Communism, they both use the same methods, it'll be horrible for everybody if we let it happen and also by the way technically neither Fascism nor Communism have anything to do with one another. :)by the way, I consider myself a Left Libertarian too. I just don't like it when people say things that aren't correct. Right now, you're the only one saying anything even remotely close to accurate.
@HungLikeAHorsefly "technically neither Fascism nor Communism have anything to do with one another"Well I disagree. They have the penchant for extreme control in common. They have the reverence for the will of the state in common. The have collectivism and the subjugation of the individual in common. Really the difference is that communism demands state ownership, whereas fascism will seize ownership when it decides that it's in the best interests of the state to do so.Good talk.
@White-American89 Isn't that kind of the definition of IRONY? Isn't Ben Shapiro Jewish? Love how you throw that out, because it is just such obvious BULLSHT!!
@AllThatSweetJazz I meant that they have completely different goals for doing what they do. The fact that they use similar methods to achieve it doesn't have anything to do with their actual ideology. So you can say something like "modern American Liberalism has the same aim as Communism (or at least Democratic Socialism), but isn't willing to use the same methods Communists do". And you can say the same thing about Conservatives and Fascists. And yes, good talk. Thanks
Also, that means they can use dirt cheap labor and bypass the "wage market".
Yes because liberals believe in socialist ideas and more importantly being called a socialist doesn't get you banned. When you call someone a Nazi you are basically saying they want to kill all Jews, slavs, gypsies and destroy the Catholic church. They believe in the racial supremacy of germanic and european peoples. That women should stay in the home and breed children etc whereas conservatives are actually about traditional American values.
Bernie sanders has literally called for socialism. Alexandria Occasio Cortez has literally called for socialism. Currently every democrat running for president has called for socialist policises of some kind. So you can't really complain that people associate socialism with a group of people calling for LITERAL SOCIALISM. Meanwhile has any conseravative called for the killing of jews? No. Have they called for national socialism (which is what the nazi's did)? Absolutely not, in fact they are adamantly against it. Have conservatives called for greater state power as nazi's did? No. Have they called for the censoring of others speech and pushed laws to do so (which liberals have) like nazi's did? No. Have they demanded that those who they don't like not be allowed to carry guns like nazi's did? No. So yeah, its completely different in every way shape and form, not only is it inaccurate when you call a conservative a nazi and completely reasonable to generalize democrats as being pro socialist (since they call for socialist policies and many of them are admitedly socialists), its also wrong because its immoral. Its an attempt to dehumanize your opposition and use it as justification to commit horrible crimes against them (like antifa who labeles conservatives as nazi's then violently attack them, fracturing skulls with bike locks and bricks and pepper spraying people who are just trying to hear a conservative speak etc.). So the answer is YES, a very empthatic YES.
White-American89 & especially hellionthesagereborn (you need a smaller name - Lol) thank you for such clarification
@PressOn Your welcome.
not the same because 1 is true and the other is a lie.www.washingtonexaminer.com/.../pew-democrats-like-socialism-more-than-capitalism
Anyone who cares about free speech.
@ForbesMagazine everyone is free to express themselves though... no matter how ridiculous. Facebook and Google are not the government and can do and say as they wish. If you don’t like it use another platform. Same with business owners who don’t want to bake gay cakes, go somewhere else. No one should really give a fuck who hurt your feelings and spread false rumors. Why do people bitch and complain so damn much about stupid shit all the time. FUCK!
Gays need to go somewhere else I meant* for their fruity ass cakes.
" Facebook and Google are not the government and can do and say as they wish. If you don’t like it use another platform"Except those companies have natural monopolies, phone companies and banks aren't allowed to discriminate based on political views, why should media platforms be able to?
@ForbesMagazine Phone companies and banks are regulated by the government though. Social media is not. Anyway it is also a form of media which ALL media is biased one way or another.
pay-pal and patreon block conservatives. google / youtube as well as facebook and (most certainly) twitter censor conservative content and anything that doesn't pander to their liberal ideals. companies are all becoming super liberal to pander to the lowest common denominator to show how PC they are. You are not free to express your opinion on any of these large platforms. They're removing free speech from people they don't agree with to create safe spaces. It's insane.
I'm sorry but do you forget your Nazi past?