What is the point of existence?

[lightbulb27]

If you look at the big picture...

Within a few billion years, earth will vaporize and be sucked into our sun along with the other planets as the sun runs out of fuel and turns to helium. It will implode and blow to bits like a red dwarf or something. Very hot. What is your body, all it's bacteria and cells and "life"... will be gone. Will anything persist?

In some time, the universe is likely to collapse. If it "big banged"... when it runs out of juice, it will "reverse big bang". That's probable.

The good news is there may be other universes, solar systems... and maybe we get reborn again, in a whole new place.

But til then... what's the point of existing? It's not like you asked to exist in the first place (as far as we know)... you just showed up. Do you have something to contribute to time and space?

[TheSpaceGnome]

There is no big picture, the universe is infinite in size, there is always something bigger or smaller, what matters to you is what you want.

its actually an estimated 12 billion, not a few billion, and it will expand into a red giant then, it will be quite some time later before it collapses into a dwarf and even later into a black hole, but none of you are going to still be alive during any of that.

Life exists on other worlds (and we are likeky to leave this one befire that happens) there will always be life.

The universe can't collapse or expand, its already taking up everything, there is nowhere left to collapse into or expand into.

There is only one universe, and it will never grow, never shrink, never end, and it never began, its just everywhere all at once for eternity.

Reincarnation isn't real unless you count ecosystem recycling (which doesn't retain memory).

There is no point to existing. Life doesn't need a reason to exist.
I don't need a reason to exist, nor do you. Life isn't about purpose or meaning, life is far more important than either of those stupid things.

[DJB72]

Suppose - just for a moment - that Life isn't the result of an elemental accident. Something the laws of physics actually point to.

Matter in any given state remains in that state unless subjected to an external force. So basically the laws of physics say the "Big Bang" is impossible UNLESS you allow for a power outside the known universe starting it off.

So maybe - just maybe - Life is the point. Maybe.

Maybe the "point" of existence IS existence.

Maybe a being we refer to here as "God" created this entire universe just so we could have a Time, Place and Matter to exist in. You can't have one or two of them. They're a true trifecta. If you have matter, you need a place to put it and a time to put it in, etc.

So consider the possibility that Existence is the point...

[TheSpaceGnome]

The universe always existed and there is no point to anything, needing a point is pointless. Life is more important than any point to anything.

[DJB72]

I admire your nihilistic sense of "certainty"...

[TheSpaceGnome]

Hedonism driven nihilism is the only way to live in my opinion. Live because its fun, purpose is pointless.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Purpose and meaning are traps, they keep people from enjoying life by restricting them to specific goals whereas they should be free to change their mind or desires at any time.

[DJB72]

I'll check with you in a thousand years and see if you still have that opinion...

[TheSpaceGnome]

Unlikely.
Even if both of us managed to live that long, I'm certain gag won't exist then.

[DJB72]

Ah, you're believing this is "it". I'm believing it's the starting point.

One thing's certain: eventually we'll find out...

[TheSpaceGnome]

Souls don't exist if thats what you're talking about.

[DJB72]

What's your evidence for that? Using your logic my beliefs are as likely to be correct as yours

[TheSpaceGnome]

1. Degenerative brain diseases would not impact congition if souls existed. A soul is just thinking using energy, but those diseases existing means you need a brain, nervous system or other organic equivalent to think, which means there isn't a soul doing that job, thus they do not exist.

2. if souls existed, and were observable enough to discover them existing, they would be everywhere, outpopulating all living life at any point in time by a factor of a number I can't even write because it has too many zeros and no name, so it would be impossible that any person had never seen more than googleplex of ghosts, and yet no one can even verify 1 ghost.

3. Other realms can't exist because extradimensional space can't, so things like heaven or hell or valhallla or paradise etc. All fiction.

4. All religions that claim souls exist are otherwise verifiable as false both in timeline, events, and dieties, do to conflicts with various evidences, for example an omnipotent god being impossible because opposites and eternity exist, or some living trees are older than said religions claim the earth and all of "creation" is., or just how certain "magic" bs is impossible because of physics, etc, etc.

[TheSpaceGnome]

cognition*, sorry, typo.

[DJB72]

Modern "Atheism" is nothing more than a religious belief.

Using Christianity as an alternative, for simplicity...

God is a Spirit without physical form. He thinks, loves, creates, etc by nothing more than the force of His Will. He doesn't require an organic system as His existence is outside our physical universe.

Your assumption is that if souls exist they would be measurable and/or observable. The only correct part of your second point is nobody can verify one ghost.

Why can't other realms exist? Why can't extradimensional space exist? What is your incontrovertible evidence for this claim?

And my favourite...

Explain the massive number of eyewitnesses to the resurrection of Jesus (timeline) both included in the bible and outside it from people who were trying to disprove the claims of the early church. These eyewitness accounts would, in a court of law, be accepted as evidence of an event not caused by any human or group thereof.

The oldest living tree known is the Bristlecone Pine, estimated at 5000 years old. Even "Young Earth" Creationists place the time since Creation at SIX thousand years.

Your beliefs are no more valid - from a strictly human perspective - than mine according to your own definitions.

[TheSpaceGnome]

No, atheism is a lack of religious belief.

Christianity (and others religions), are verifiably nonsense:
Since thats your example, lets look at the christian version of god, and omnipotent creator of everything is the claim:
Omnipotence is impossible because its self contradicting (ie because opposites exist):
Example:
Can god create something so heavy, that god cannot lift it?
If no, then god is not omnipotent, because they cannot create it. If yes, than god is not omnipotent, because they cannot lift it. Either way, limitations are unavoidable because of opposites, so being able to do everything is impossible, thus omnipotence is impossible.
Now lets examine the creationism part:
Creationism results in a paradoxical outcome and is thus impossible:
Why do you think the universe needed to be created to exist?
Because something cannot exist without being created.
Ok, then what created god? and what created the thing that created god? and what created that? and that? and that? and that? and that? (times infinity).
Creationism implies both a begining and eternity at the same time, which is a contradition.
You also cannot create something of infinite size. The infinite size thing is what would have to create everything else.

[TheSpaceGnome]

God and spirits do not exist. Thinking without physical form is impossible because of the explaination I already gave, and nothing is outside the universe, the universe is everything/infinite/goes on for eternity/always existed.

Souls do not exist, I already explained why.

Other realms cannot exist because the entire realm concept is nonsense, and is merely a misintepretation of what dimensions are. Everything is 3 dimensional, there are no exceptions. There is no space in which another reality can exist because 3 dimensions take up all the space. For other realms to exist, each universe would need to be 2 dimensional, and they aren't, nothing is actually 2 dimensional, even the thinnest objects are made up of 3 dimensions. This is a simple geometry problem, just on an infinite scale.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Eyewitness accounts aren't evidence and courts really should stop using them. People lie, misunderstand, get lied to, etc, and they do these things far more often than being correct or honest. There is no evidence Jesus of Nazareth even existed at all as a regular human, let alone a magic being, and plenty of evidence to prove his claimed feats are impossible/nonsense.

A Spuce Tree near the Sweden - Norway border, just east of Trysil municipality in Norway, was found in 2012. The tree turned out to be 9,500 years old at the time, they can live for longer than that though.
A Creosote bush found in 1980 in the desert near Palm Springs, California, USA, was found to be 11,700 years old at the time.
Those are just 2 examples, I recall 3 others but fir brevity reasons i'm not taking the time to track them down.

I don't do beliefs.

Your beliefs are nonsense.

[TheSpaceGnome]

The only way to argue in favor of a god existing (at least plausably) is if the universe itself is god, but that would require proving that the universe itself can think, and its impossible to prove that because you run into the problem of trying to differentiate between greater sentient function vs "just another lifeform" .

It would be like the microbes that make up our brains trying to prove that we think, when us thinking as one being is really just them thinking as a group. On macro scales, there is lots of evidence suggesting all multicellular lifeforms do not think as a group together, so the only way to hypothetically refute it would be the analogy above, where our intellect is too simple to comprehend universe "brain" function, the same way microbial cells that are our nervous system cannot understand that we think, but again, it can't be proven even if true, simply because of that mental limitation.

I shouldn't even have to write any of this, the burden of proof is on the person claiming god or other realms exist, and you have no proof, no logic, no explaination to any claim you made, yet you demand these things from me, all because I'm not going to just trust you.

Absurd, backup your claims or stop debating (and no, citing a book's quote is not evidence, so do not start quoting the bible).

[DJB72]

The first time "atheist" was used was around 2000 years ago by the Romans, specifically to describe Christians. And Atheism is itself a religious belief - the belief that there is no god is a belief.

Your (flawed) concept of omnipotence requires that your (limited) idea of god exists exclusively withing the confines of the created universe. The Christian God exists outside Time, Space and Matter. Therefore there are no opposites.

Physics proved there was a point in time the physical universe began. It's commonly called the "Big Bang Theory". Christians just say "In the beginning".

Again, you demonstrate your extremely limited understanding. God is the Creator, not a created being. The parallel would be an AI robot saying it doesn't believe it's programmer exists.

Infinite size again assumes God is limited, where Christianity assumes He isn't.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Your reply was a combination of lies regarding history, incorrect word usage, misinterpretatons of what omnipotence, the universe, time, space, matter, and the big bang are, incoherent nonsense, contradictory statements, and unveriviable claims.

You sir are a loony.

[DJB72]

Moving on...

Just because you can't comprehend *how* thought and self can exist outside the physical doesn't mean they can't - just that YOU don't understand how.

Physics has, as mentioned, has reached a majority consensus that there had to be a point where the universe began.

Your beliefs souls don't exist is not proof.

Your belief in that the physical universe is all there is does not constitute proof.

And the physical universe is four dimensions, not 3. Length, breadth, depth and time. Again, your lack of understanding is showing.

[TheSpaceGnome]

I'm unfollowing this post and blocking you. I have no time for the insane.

[DJB72]

By your logic, prove Julius Caesar, Aristotle, Plato, etc existed. Prove Socrates existed, given one of his laments was a new technology would stop the next generation using their intelligence - the technology being a written language. There are more records of Jesus having existed written contemporary to his life and not by the disciples - Josephus, Pliny, etc - than of the others I've mentioned combined.

What method was used to date the trees? I'm just curious. I don't personally believe this planet is only 6000 years old, so it's quite feasible there could be ancient trees. Please introduce me to the guy that planted them as proof.

[DJB72]

Oh, you're afraid of a debate.

[IslaTheWitch]

Mother Nature works in mysterious ways. I wouldn't try to guess her plans.

So, I live my life here and now, focusing on the present. I didn't ask for "existing" but I enjoy it anyway, every single day, person, and event. It makes me feel alive and happy.

If I made life better for at least a single being it's enough of purpose for me...

[laly520]

to live n experience many stuff

to make decisions n to be tested

[NewgodOmega]

To endlessly suffer then die
There ain't no first prize for enduring suffering and misery
Every one who is alive has one sadness everyone
We are alive to suffer
Suffering ends and we end

[lightbulb27]

may be some truth to that...
suffering sure produces growth. Maybe in essence, it is some kind of..."refinement"?

[NewgodOmega]

There is no refinement, there is a useless change that in the long run don't matter

[lightbulb27]

curious, how does that make you feel? in essence, that be hopelessness, you are thus center of all that is important = selfishness.

[NewgodOmega]

You got it wrong, no one is important not me not you not anyone not everyone
We all are just fake dead living in broken homes in a ruined city, endlessly ripping apart each other and ourselves, eating others and ourselves trying to make some sense of this otherwise meaningless existence in a endless moonless pitch black forever night

[lightbulb27]

Some true but dont agree.

[NewgodOmega]

You don't have to agree
The universe don't care what you think

[lightbulb27]

if quantum theory is right, and I'm entangled with other stuff, it does matter. I'm flipping electrons in another universe right now... according to quantum theory.
yes, we can all have our opinions.

[NewgodOmega]

A waste repeating a waste
Sandcastles on a beach
Meaningless

[jahaims]

Philosophically there isn't one. Practically it is to reproduce/evolve

[Twalli]

Prove to me that everything I see isn't just a figment of my imagination and when I die, everyone and everything ceases to exist. You can't because your arguments are just things that I have thought up.

[Billlewis]

'What is the point of existence?' To serve the female; what else could it possibly be? ;)

[exitseven]

I am not sure what the point is but I will be really disappointed if it turns out the only reason we are here is to replicate our DNA.

[KostasKouvalis]

To break your back so you can pay taxes to corrupt governments, and so you can destroy this planet

[Tim2nice]

Technology will have taken us to new galaxies by then

[Dongie]

Nearest I can pinpoint is knowing and building the relationship with our Creator Jesus Christ.

[OtterMan68]

making the world a better place than you found it

[Unit1]

I don't see any. I'm enslaved to my survival instincts.

[NathanDavis]

to find a purpose for it...

[strateguy632]

family is the point

[Alex-Snow]

Enjoy each day while we are here I guess

[dolemite58]

To enjoy the misfortunes of others