Evolution: facts or fake? Why?

[Morgan234]

Updates

+1 y

How do you get life from non-life?

[Siri137]

Darwinian evolution is nonsense, and for at least the following two reasons:

1. It cannot account for how or why life got going in the first place. 'Abiogenesis' they like to call it, as though giving something a name solves the mystery. It doesn't, and what's more, if it were possible for life to arise from non-life, surely by now they would have figured out a way to make it happen. They've been trying since at least the early 1950's, and so far they've come up with pretty much nothing, apart from a few amino acids at the bottom of the flask.

2. The biblical "kinds" don't evolve into other kinds. Wolves don't become sheep, fish don't become dolphins. It never happens, ever. It's true that the characteristics of species can change (slightly) over time, through breeding for example, but that's the extent of it.

So no, I don't believe in fairy tales! :D Life was created, end of story, case closed!

[Guffrus]

Evolution doesn't need to explain how life got started because that is an entirely different subject.

You are making the mistake of believing that if a scientific theory cannot explain everything about a thing that that is equal to it explaining nothing about it.

Your profound ignorance is not something you should be proud of.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus How convenient! You do of course realise that laws of nature, theories and proposed hypotheses are meant to explain as much about a given phenomenon and/or process as possible, and not just explicit, single instances of its occurrence, don't you? For example, Newton's laws explain not just planetary motion, but also the motion of satellites, tides, the moon, comets and so on.
No, I guess you did not, because your profound ignorance is getting in the way! Darwinism is a dud. Deal with it and move on.

[Guffrus]

The clue is in the name 'the theory of evolution' not the 'theory of the origin of life'.

If it were convenient it would have included the origin, then dumb cunts like you wouldn't be having a problem.

Your idea that evolution is only explaining single instances of phenomenon is quite simply wrong and you would know that if you knew anything at all about the subject.

It is also quite absurd for you to be bringing up newtonian physics as championing the idea that a theory has to explain everything because it is well known that newtonian physics doesn't work at the quantum level.

That doesn't make it worthless, but it does demonstrate that there is more to learn as is the case with the origin of life.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus Oh dear. Yet another rude, arrogant fellow who can't seem to understand basic logic (or manners for that matter). Yes, I know what it's called, but the entire premise of biological evolution via natural selection is based upon the philosophical assumption of naturalism, which is the belief that nature is all there is, can explain everything, and there is nothing within our physical realm that requires recourse to a supernatural explanation to account for everything within it.
The emergence of life from non-life is presented to us as some kind of miracle that we all just have to accept, and we're told that what follows is natural, to be expected, and to be in complete harmony with everything else that we've observed, but no, it isn't.
Do you have any objections to my second point, or are you just going to ignore it? Do you understand my basic point here, or will I have to use baby-talk? Are you at all familiar with the Law of Biogenesis and what it entails?

[Guffrus]

Saying 'God did it' IS baby talk.

I don't know who presented the emergence of life to you as a miracle but that is not how it was presented to me, it is simply a known unknown, which is fine.

Your 2nd 'point' from what I can gather is a mixture of jibberish and an admission that Darwinian evolution is correct so no, I am not going to address it.

Never heard of the law of biogenesis before but a quick internet search reveals that it is a 165 year old hypothesis, or in other words not something I should give any kind of fuck about because its meaningless.

Presumably you saw the word 'law' in the title and then thought that meant that it was a fact.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus You "never heard of the Law of Biogenesis". Well, that explains quite a lot, doesn't it? :D
The fact that it's from the 19th century is... what? Problematic for you? Newtonian physics is even older.
God, why am I even talking to you? Good bye and good riddance!

[Guffrus]

The key word is HYPOTHESIS..

THAT is why it matters that it is 165 years old.

[Wade12345]

@Guffrus The computer you are using is vastly too complicated to exist by random chance, but is intelligently designed. It uses binary logic to represent all operators in extended reality.

Biological LIfe on Earh uses base 64 chemical logic to build all the molecules of life. It is trillions of times more complicated than the electroniic computers either of us are using to communicate.

Since the electronic computer is too complex to happen by accident, and human life is trillions of times more complex than the computer, then human life could not evolve by accident.

Therefore human life is Intelligently Designed by an Almighty Being, as is all other life and matter.

"empty space" in the Universe is also not nothing. Empty space is made of Zero Point Energy. there is more Zero Point Energy in a small empty drinking glass than all the ordinary matter, dark matter and dark energy in the Universe combined. This means "empty space" is more complex than human life and could not exist by accident. Therefore "empty space" is Created by an Almighty Being.

[Wade12345]

@Guffrus Spontaneous Generation has been proved wrong for centuries. It is not possible for inanimate matter to spontaneously become "alive".

The only way inainimate matter can gain Life is when The Creator God makes it into a life form.

Abiogenesis violates Entropy and Logic. There is no scientific evidence of an inanimate object spontaneously becoming alive.

There is endless evidence of life forms which already exist using energy to reproduce, which is normal life.

There is endless evidence that organized systems are CREATED and not accidental... again, the computer you are using to read this is impossible to happen by accident, but is Intelligently designed.

[Wade12345]

@Guffrus The Book of Genesis is 3600 years old and correctly predicts that the Water on the Earth is older than the Sun Moon and Stars.

The age of a true fact does not diminish its truthfulness.

abiogenesis has been proved wrong centuries ago. Even God himself does not work that way.

[Wade12345]

While we are on this topic of life, a human Zygote meets all 7 widely accepted conditions of being "alive" and it meets Dr. Keith Bancroft's proposed 8th condition of life.

[Guffrus]

@Wade12345 Oh fuck off you dumb cunt.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus Wow. You got him there, yes you did! What a clever, insightful and interesting response to his presentation of the facts (not). :D

[Siri137]

@Wade12345 "The age of a true fact does not diminish its truthfulness". Does this mean there are "false facts"? Anyway, yes, your basic point here is valid. Hypotheses, facts, truths, laws of nature and so on do not automatically become invalid simply because they've been around for a given length of time, which is what 'Guffrus' here apparently believes!

[Guffrus]

@siri137 Go and learn what hypothesis means.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus I don't need to, because I already know. You, on the other hand, seem to believe that ideas become automatically false when they reach a certain age.
A hypothesis is a provisional explanation for a given, observed phenomenon/process for which there is actual evidence. A law of nature is an established fact, an acknowledged reality that has been so thoroughly tested over and over again that no one doubts its truth (ex. Kepler's Laws of Planetary Motion, Snell's Law of Refraction).
Go back to school 'Guffrus'!

[Siri137]

@Guffrus Evolution is a fairy tale. Now that is a FACT!

[Guffrus]

You are a fucking moron.

If you had any idea what words meant this thread wouldn't be happening.

A hypothesis doesn't mean a damn thing a THEORY on the other hand DOES mean something.

Calling something a law doesn't mean anything.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus By the way, biogenesis isn't a hypothesis. It's a LAW.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus It "doesn't mean a damn thing"? Wow, you really are shockingly ignorant. According to Google dictionary: Hypothesis - a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.
You think this is "nothing"? Really? Biogenesis isn't a hypothesis, or even a theory anymore. It's a law, an established fact. Life doesn't arrive from non-life. EVER. If you think it does, then give me a single example of it.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus Evolution is a fairy-tale. Creation is how it all came to be. That is also a fact.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus One other thing. Why are you so abusive? Why the foul language? Are all evolutionists so angry all the time? If so, why? Is it because they KNOW that what they believe is false, and others pointing this out to them triggers them? Hmm, that must be it.

[Wade12345]

@Guffrus So are you conceding and admitting Creation is the only way life or anything exists?

hehehe.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus You should listen to Wade, he knows what he's talking about. Well, most of the time he knows, because he sometimes gets some things wrong.

[Guffrus]

'LIMITED EVIDENCE', 'STARTING POINT', 'FURTHER INVESTINGATION'

ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY FIVE FUCKING YEARS...

Why don't you grasp any of this?

What the fuck is wrong with your brain?

I am angry because you are so profoundly fucking ignorant.

You use words that you don't understand which completely destroy your own argument and you don't even understand that that is whats happening because you are a fucking moron.

But you act like you are right, like your position is supported by evidence.

You make the most ridiculous fucking claims so arrogantly.

You behaviour is absolutely fucking disgusting.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus "You are a fucking moron". - Abuse isn't tolerated here on GAG. It's against the rules, so just keep this up, it will just add to my evidence against you when I report you.
If you cannot refute my claims here (and you can't) then just don't reply with anything. Admit defeat and slink away with your tail between your legs.

[Guffrus]

Do what you like

You are getting shit listed now along with your retarded ally.

There is no helping people like you, nothing could ever change your mind because your ideas are not based on valid arguments.

[Guffrus]

You don't even know what the word theory means for fuck sake.

How dare you act the way you do?

[Siri137]

@Guffrus "LIMITED EVIDENCE', 'STARTING POINT', 'FURTHER INVESTINGATION'
ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY FIVE FUCKING YEARS..."

Oh dear. It looks as though 'Guffrus' here has finally blown a fuse. Yes, I know what a hypothesis is, but guess what? BIOGENESIS ISN'T A HYPOTHESIS ANYMORE! IT'S A LAW! You know, a law of nature, like gravity.
Geez man, don't be so dense!
Evolution - it's just a theory, and not a very good one. Biogenesis - a law, and it hasn't been falsified yet.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus Look, it's clear to me that you just do not understand how science works, that you don't really know what you're talking about. Why don't you just leave this discussion to the adults here, and go toddle away and play in the sand-pit or something. Now there's a good boy, off you go now.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus "But you act like you are right, like your position is supported by evidence." - That's because I DO know what I'm talking about, and what I say IS backed up by evidence! Now where is the evidence for the dogmatic doctrine of Darwinism? If it existed you would have already presented it here.
And yes, I am right.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus "You make the most ridiculous fucking claims so arrogantly." - You think that I'm "arrogant" because I don't accept your specious nonsense, your laughable 'logic', and because a "mere woman" is here challenging the Mighty Guffrus and embarrassing him in public. Why don't you go and join the Andrew Tate worshippers? You'd fit right in.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus "You behaviour is absolutely fucking disgusting." - Oh really? Why? Why is my behaviour here "disgusting" in your (no doubt biased) view? If I'm getting on your nerves that's YOUR problem, not mine. I am who I am, and if you can't handle me, then go crawl back into your safe-space and have a good cry.
I will not allow myself to be bullied by people like you. GAG is for the sharing of information, the free and open discussion of ideas. If you don't like that then go on over to 'Reddit' where they don't allow that. Or 'Twitter'.

[Siri137]

@Guffrus What exactly are your qualifications 'Guffrus'? You remind me of all those New Agers who like to waffle on about quantum mechanics like they actually know what the hell they're even talking about. That's how shockingly ignorant you seem to me to be here. Don't discuss things you clearly know nothing about, that's my advice to you.

[Ms_Facesitter]

Facts. Because we're sitting here on a computer/phone. Other animals can't do that.
Lions, crocodiles, great white sharks, they're usually not afraid. They are apex predators. Meanwhile us people, we get scared all the time. I think the reason for that is because we JUMPED to the top of the food chain. But we still have no wings, shields, fangs or claws, ... We have our intelligence. That got us to the top.

[strateguy632]

You only showed "now humans are more intelligent than animals now" not any evolution from dumber.

[abc3643]

Evolution is fact because, frankly, it is as fundamental as arithmetic. There's not any theoretical about the fundamental aspect of it.

It's all about copying errors... If you keep making copies of copies, etc., eventually your latest copy is hardly going to resemble the original.

[Siri137]

As fundamental as arithmetic? What? Are you serious about that? No, it isn't, actually, because it's wrong.
Do you know what happens in REAL life when errors are copied? No? Well, I'll tell ya - they make the organism in question WORSE, not better. Anyone who knows anything about basic biology understands that, anyone who is involved in genetics, or the breeding of animals knows that too.

[abc3643]

@Siri137
Yes, I am serious about that.

And, yes, generally, mutations do make the organism worse and they die off.
But, sometimes, mutations are beneficial - more so than the original, so that organism is more likely to survive to reproduce compared to the others without that mutation.

Not only do I understand basic biology, I understand something you do not: Systems theory and the associated mathematics.

I do not have time to elaborate on this but evolution not only occurs in biological systems, but it occurs in any system in which there is some form of physically stored memory of how to make copies of the system.

[Siri137]

Two points to make in response to this.
1. The instances within nature when a mutation actually improves the organism in question is so incredibly rare that it doesn't occur often enough to account for the complexity we see around us.
2. Even when that happens, the organism in question basically remains what it was before. As I pointed out to someone else, fish don't become dolphins and wolves don't become sheep (or even domestic dogs).

[abc3643]

@Siri137

Yes and no.

The probability for the individual generally is rare. But not for the population as a whole. Furthermore, working over time, there are accumulative effects.
It's just like integration in calculus... when you add up a shitload of almost nothings, you get something.
Something else, sometimes mutations en masse or evolution happens quickly.

Here's an example in the first case: in an environment with heightened background radiation, mututations will occur faster and to a larger population.

Here's an example of the second case: if you have catastrophic event that kills a large fraction of the population, if the surviving population had some trait enabled them to survive, then they are the ones who reproduce and that trait then is incorporated into the new general population. I think this would fall under "punctuated equilibrium".

OK, I gotta mute this question. I am getting lots of shit at work.

[Wade12345]

IN real life when genes are copied incorrectly it produces cancers, huntingtons, ALS, ALD, MS, and so on and so forth.

The dumb moderator deleted my arguments, again, but it remains fact that spontaneous generation is a proven false science and does not happen in the real universe.

Human beings have tried to force proteins to form in flasks by zapping chemicals, and the best they hae ever done is get a few stray amino acids to form. thats a far cry from a viable positive attributes protein, and even if they zapped enough to magically get one protein, so what? one protein per 50 years would not make a life form.

Every known cellular life form uses complete DNA chromosomes and RNA too... and Ribosomes too and Eukaryotes are NOT descended from Prokaryotes. They have different genes and different Ribosomes with different moledular chemistry.

Evolution is not a fact. What is a fact is that every human who has ever lived was CREATED by a pre-exsting intelligence.

[Wade12345]

No it's not. Arithmetic is logic and requires a Mind to work.

The mathematics of molecular chemistry is based on Groethe's Law of Attraction, which governs at least 3 of the 7 known fundamental forces and governs human love relationships too. It uses simple arithmetic and charge indicators, namely positive nd negative charge.

This shows molecular chemistry requires LOGIC to operate, and LOGIC requires a MIND always.

Example:

Who or What enforces Groethe's Law of Attraction.

LOGIC enforces it.

The Greek Philosophers literally said that God and Logic were one and the same and that God was a real Person. John then quote the Greek Philosophers in Jn. 1:1 "in the begining was logos and logos was with God and logos was God. He made all things and without Him was not anything made that was made."

It is not possible for anything whatsoever to be "Random" in the Universe, because EVERYTHIGN in the universe is proven to be controlled by LOGIC and Logic is proven to be God himself operating in the material Universe.

[Wade12345]

By the way, I independently "unified" gravity and EM radiation a few years ago, and some scientists a few days ago wrote a paper proving gravity could produce light.

I said gravity waves produce EM radiation as infrared, so that further unifies Gravity and shows gravity is dipole too, which means Gravity obeys Groethe's Law too, which means Gravity obeys Charged operator logic and is controlled by God, etc.

[Wade12345]

i know how to program operating systems and websites and such. Programming a self-learnign algorithm requires an intelligent programmer. It does not happen by accident. I know how to write a self-learning program I just choose not to do it, but that is not "evolution" that would be an artificial intelligence. In any case, i would then be the intelligent designer of such a system.

So your example is once again proven to be an example of intelligent Design/Creation, not random evolution.

Also, computer viruses do not evolve. They uses Error code checking the same as any other professionally designed program. I could write an annoying computer virus if I wanted to do so, but I choose not to do so.

I once wrote my own programming language and a compiler for it about 20 years ago.

I know how to program Quantum Algorithms on a classical computer. One of the first things we did in Computer Science 101 in University is prove that classical electronic computers can solve any problem in the material Universe and that Quantum Computers are not necessary.

All you need to do in the C language is store an "Up" spin term and a "down" spin term, and for "superposition" you have both "up" and "down" turned on simultaneously. This allows each Qubit in the virtual engine to work exactly as a real "Quantum Bit Operation".

The C programming language can solve any problem in the material Universe and C++ and C# are not even provably improvements on it.

[NathanDavis]

abiogenesis...

https://www.youtube.com/embed/tVuXiCTGiV4

[jshm2]

Which one? There are many different theories of evolution and quite frankly, they are more belief than good science.

[strateguy632]

Evolution is FAKE that is why they use intentionally misleading terminology, to fool people , and use mocking insted of reasoning.

[Quackthulu2]

Neither, Evolution is the best explanation available that explains millions upon millions of facts.

[Anonymous]

It is not an opinion, it is a robust scientific theory supported by mountains of evidence.

[strateguy632]

Only the ORIGINAL darwinian evolution "species evolved from one or many species that god created" in darwin book.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Fact. Evolution happened in the animal kingdom.

[Anonymous]

Check

brentellisministries@gmail. com

[Anonymous]

Facts, pretty evident through fossils as time progressed

[Wade12345]

no. Fossils are nothing more than evidence of prior orders of Creation.

There are no transitional forms from dinosaur to chicken to ostritch or whatever.

There are no transition forms for SHARKS which appear in the fossil record out of nowhere suddenly fully adapted and have not changed significantly in 400 million years. "Sharks have a proven 6th sense and we now know some species of sharks live for 400 or more years per individual. They are a perfectly designed killing machine with quite literally telepathic powers of EM detection and the strongest sense of smell of any known life form. 'they are not an accident. They ar equite literally perfectly made.

There are all sorts of situations like this in the fossil record where PERFECTLY DESIGNED LIFE FORMS APPEAR SUDDENLY IN THE FOSSIL RECORD WITH NO TRANSITIONAL FORM WHATSOEVER...

jellyfish
crabs
bivalves
reptillians... crocodillians are so perfect and appeared suddenly and have not changed much in 150 million years except to miniaturize a bit since they first appeared in the fossil record. They appear perfectly created for their niche and even have doubled eye lids to allow underwater vision and extra protection of eyes, and they are probably the most successful ambush predator on the planet... except Sharks.
insects
so on and so forth.

[Wade12345]

Dinosaurs are not an accident. Sauropods bone structure works almost like space frame human engineering design. They literally look like they were designed by a super-intelligence when you look at them, especially some of the biggest Sauropods.

[Opinion Owner]

@Wade12345 so basically intelligent design, I’m always open to that idea too because it just seems like some things were created that couldn’t have evolved from anything, as if ancient aliens had been here manipulating DNA of certain creatures and monkeys into humans.

[Wade12345]

You don't seem to understand that Quarks, Leptons, and the Laws of Physics are intelligently Designed too.

The Greeks are the ones who first claimed that God and Logos were one and the same.

John 1:1 correctly states, "In the Beginning was Logos and the Logos was with God and the Logos was God. HE made all things and without Him was not anything made that was made."

This is why LOGIC controls everything.

Quarks use Groethe's Law of Attraction too and so do all other fundamental particles, and since I proved Gravity Waves decay into Infrared as they propagate, this means Gravity uses Groethe's Law too.

All of the Forces are controlled by Logical Equations and operators which were Authored and Created by God (Logos).

In Quantum Theory, Quarks and other probability waves are controlled by Sentient Observation. "Events" do not happen without a sentient being observing them.

So the Big Bang CANNOT happen in the Quark Model without an Almighty God to Create and Observe it, thereby "Collapsing" that Quantum Wave function, which then gave rise to the entire Universe.

God controls everything, in the Universe, every Quark, Lepton, Photon, Muon, Gluon, Pion, Boson, Meson, etc, at all times through LOGIC.

The Standard Model of particle physics and all quantum operations are all LOGICAL operators which are INTELLIGENTLY DESIGNED by Humans, and so the LOGICAL OPERATORS in the real Universe must be INTELLIGENTLY DESIGNED by God.

in a Quantum system, nothing happens until a Human observed it.

In the real Universe, nothing happens until God observes it. So at the point of Origin of space and time, when there was nothing at all, God "Observed" reality and Created and Collapsed the First Quantum Wave Function.

that is the only reason anything at all exists.

[Wade12345]

So agian, in shorter terms.

It is not possible for the Universe to come from nothing at all, not even in Quantum Mechanics.

In Quantum Mechanics, the Big Bang (or whatever the real mechanism of Creation) CANNOT happen without a Sentient Observer "Collapsing the Wave Function".

That's why Schrodinger's Cat thought experiment is so profound.

Nothing happens to the Cat in a "thought experiment" unless a Sentient Human Observer Collapses the Wave Function, but in the REAL quantum reality GOD collapses the wave function at the Point of Origin... this is why God says:

I AM GOD, DECLARING THE END FROM THE BEGINNING.

By the way, some form of Tachyons exist too, but those were Created at the end of time... from the beginning of time... and they move backwards in time... it so happens that the Quantum Universe is also "Holographic" and Black Holes do NOT destroy "information". Stephen Hawking was wrong about that, as was proved by T'Hooft et al. Besides, since God exists and knows everything, God has a copy of all "information" too, so a Black Hole cannot destroy the information God knows... thus Hawking was always wrong about black holes and none of his theories work in the real world.

[Wade12345]

Even in String Theory and other Multiverse theories, QM requires an Self-Eternal OBSERVER to Create REality and "Collapse the Wave Function" toproduce one or more Big Bangs to Create all possible Universes, etc.

This is why Dr. Kaku has evidently converted to Deism, because he admitted everything was intelligently designed. he said, "The multiverse described by String Theory is so perfect that the only way it could come into being is if it were Created by a Pre-existing Ingelligence." - Dr. Michio Kaku, 2018.

So since the Universe itself is intelligently designed, everything in it is intelligently designed by collapsing the Wave Function when God (Logos) spoke it into existence and then (according to the Bible) he LOOKED AT IT and said it was "Very GOOD". Observation collapses the wave function, Creating Reality as we know it.

[Wade12345]

Atheism flat out doesn't work. The Atheist Particle Physicists try to claim everything came from NOthing Itself, WITHOUT God intervening, which has been proven wrong ever since Rene Descartes.

"from Nothing comes Nothing."

Observe, I'll prove Rene Descartes CORRECT using Sets.

"Nothing" may be represented as an Empty Set, Nothing{}.

The Set Nothing{} cannot contain anything at all, not even the number zero. It therefore cannot contain any process, p, capable of turning Nothing{} into Something{} either.

Put another way, Nothing{} possesses no Creative Power.

Therefore Nothing{} cannot create one damned thing.

Therefore 0 = 1 + (-1) does not allow Nothing{} to create one damned thing either.

Therefore reality CANNOT come from Nothing{}.

Therefore reality WAS Created by a Pre-existing Almighty Self-Eternal CREATOR.

Lawrence Krauss and Neil Degrasse Tyson are just wrong and ridiculous, as ought to be obvious by now.

[Opinion Owner]

@Wade12345 so just like they say, if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it does it still make a noise? And also wasn’t man created in Gods image? There is so many theories out there and very hard to prove

[Wade12345]

That is theoretically sound in the model, but in the real universe God sees and hears everything because he already knows everything. so in the real Universe the Tree always makes a sound, even if the only Being observing is God himself.

We are created in both the image and likeness of God. We look like God and we are caapable of Thinking "like God" but that doesn't make us "little gods".

[Wade12345]

Degrasse Tyson blames God for disasters, etc, and for that reason he makes the remark that he is "tired of God" so he rebels against God.

But the fact remains that the Standard Model involves so many particles that all use Groethe's Law, which is logically derived and does apply to human love too. This should have given these theorists some clue that everything is Logically Created, but for some reason some people harden their hearts no matter what the evidence.

[Opinion Owner]

@Wade12345 well he never sent instructions for us on how to repair our bodies unless it hasn’t been discovered yet

[Anonymous]

Fact, because it's been proven through science

[Opinion Owner]

Real science. Not fake, politically charged bullshit climate change "science" that Greta Thunberg spews out of her dumb mouth

[Siri137]

How DARE you!

[Opinion Owner]

Lol.