So... there's no religion that is NOT a supposed translation of a divine book, right?

[OddBeMe]

Thats the MO? Why's it so successful? If I said I had an email from God you'd say I'm full of shit.

[combative]

Christianity is specifically a testament by multiple witnesses... The Bible is actually a library of different writing from independent authors that confirm each other through different accounts. While Jesus says the Holy Spirit will be sent after he leaves to help his disciples remember all that he said to them, the "book" (library) itself isn't said to be sent down from God like what the Muslims claim. It's a message of what happened through multiple writers point of view either concerning eye witness accounts of events or prophecy revealed to specific individuals with the assistance of God to remember what they were taught when Jesus was on Earth in his human form. No one ever claims it was a magic book that fell from the sky or anything like that, nor do they claim the text has to stay divinely written as it was sent down from God. Christianity preserves the message or "the good news" about what was learned by interacting with the Word of God (Jesus).

[combative]

So for example if you blow up a nuke in the desert and 500 people watched it from various bunkers, 10 of which were scientists who write detailed reports of what they witnessed and measured with their instruments. Each one writes their report a little differently, but they all confirm each other. Then that information is bound together in a library for review and many eye witness confirm that they did in fact see a nuclear explosion in the desert when other people claim they are crazy and they are so sure of the truth that a nuclear bomb exists and has been detonated that they would die to defend the idea.

[combative]

That's pretty much what the Bible is like as an analogy... It's not just one scientific journal, it many that confirm one another...

[combative]

But then you also have all the scientists that tell you about how the science would work leading up to the development of the bomb, how it will theoretically explode in the future and that the desert is a good test location that is written in a bunch of independent reports long before the event actually happens. Those are the prophecies... So if you can believe in the evidence structure of modern science and how independent researchers can predict and confirm each other over a long period of time and record that in eye witness accounts, then that is no different than believing the Bible.

[OddBeMe]

We would also have fallout in the test zone. Scientists have to prove what they wrote or they can’t call it science.

[combative]

Yet you are trusting their authority to record with accuracy what happened. You aren't traveling back to 1939 in a time machine yourself to witnessed the Manhattan Project occur and the first atomic bomb test in 1945. You choose to put your faith in people that bear witness to what they claim occurred. Many people will do the same for hundreds of years from now because of the testimony about the events and their record in history. An atomic bomb isn't something everyone can just blow up in their back yard... It's a miraculous event that most of us will never witness in person, yet we believe in it.

[combative]

So clearly you and many others have a religion that you follow based on faith. You claim there is radio active evidence in the desert, but you only believe it is evidence because the people that claim an atomic bomb was detonated there told you that's what you would expect to find after an atomic explosion. You didn't figure it out on your own. You haven't detonated a multitude of atomic bombs and measured the outcome through experimentation. You trust a chain of transmission of eye witness accounts. In fact the leaders of your religion that claim a bomb was detinated in the desert have outlawed your right to manufacture atomic bombs and have made it against the law for you to detonate an atomic bomb to see for yourself. The leaders of your religion don't want you to actually ask questions about the religion, they just want you to trust their authority blindly in complete faith.

[OddBeMe]

But no corroboration of the magical parts

[combative]

The magic parts of the atomic bomb? Well of course you're not suppose to see behind the magic curtain in your religion. They tell you that you're not allow to see the artifacts and test them, but they do have a giant hole in the desert for you to look at in awe as you stand around it with other tourists and worship it's grandeur.

[combative]

In contrast you can go into just about any hospital every day in many different cities and someone will technically die and then be brought back to life...

[combative]

So what sort of miracle is more believable, raising the dead or an atomic bomb explosion?

[OddBeMe]

No the a-bomb has a half life of 50,000 years. Any idiot can detect the decay.

I meant your magic book

[combative]

You can't even get that detail of your religion correct. You're no regular idiot. Plutonium-239 has an expected half-life of roughly 24,110 years. That out of the way, you haven't even lived 24,110 years to confirm that at least once so you can only take that idea on faith. It's just a prediction from mathematical extrapolation of alpha particle emission rates. In reality radioactive decay is a random process. According to quantum theory it's not possible to predict when an atom will decay or how long a particular atom has remained in existence. We have an inclination of what will happen, but we can't be sure. It's clear you haven't studied much chemistry or physics. You're in over your head on this one... None the less, even if you were to go down that road of hypothesized expectations you still would need to take on faith the original mass of the nuclear fuel used in the hypothetical bomb from eyewitness accounts. You would also need to take on faith the dispersion patterns of nuclear fallout from the bomb due to reported weather patterns for the day of detonation that was recorded by eyewitnesses in a time before you lived. You don't make very logical rebuttals.

[combative]

But you can go to a hospital and see men heal the sick and raise the dead... These are verifiable in today's day and age.

[combative]

It's also funny that your project the concept of a "magic book", when nuclear physics/physical chemistry books clearly and openly speak about "magic numbers" in relation to radioactive decay. Completely hilarious...

[combative]

Alpha particle themselves are considered doubly magic... So who's reading the magic book again?

[OddBeMe]

You think radioactive decay is magic?

[combative]

If you actually understood radioactive decay, then you would know about nuclear magic numbers, but you're an ignoramus. It's not my personal belief. It is a foundational idea of nuclear physics/physical chemistry. The theories radioactive decay are base on depend on nuclear magic numbers.

[combative]

*based

[combative]

Alpha particle having two protons and two neutrons bound together into a particle identical to a helium 4 nucleus are doubly magic by definition. So your belief radioactive decay depends on magic numbers. The foundation of your religion is based on magic. Cope harder...

[combative]

*belief in

[combative]

If you had actually studied science, rather than just blindly claiming faith in it as a atheist socialist dullard, you wouldn't have walked right into that. I've studied both science and religion far beyond your grasp so I knew exactly were you were walking and what traps were in front of you.

[OddBeMe]

Like always you fall for scientific jokes. Magic numbers is a stupid term they use. Like the god particle

[combative]

It's no joke, you're just uneducated. The English word magic is derived from magike which shows up around 14c have a definition of "art of influencing or predicting events and producing marvels using hidden natural forces". All of natural science (physics, chemistry, biology, earth science, etc.) is magic by definition. We study the hidden natural forces to predict events and produce marvels just like the magos from Greek, who were "members of the learned and priestly class" because those who understand magic have "power" or magh- from it's Old Persian root. This is why the Church has always been involved in science all through history. The religious people study the hidden natural forces God put in place. It's the same reason the Higgs boson has often been called the "God particle". Like I said, if you studied science you'd know these things. Most real scientists are religious.

[combative]

Maybe you should stop professing blind faith and go study science and religion... Then maybe one day you'll become a member of the learned and priestly class... You know a MAGA as it's called in Latin.

[OddBeMe]

No dumbass. You’re just too gullible.

“These "magic numbers" are natural occurrences in isotopes that are particularly stable. Table 1 list of numbers of protons and neutrons; isotopes that have these numbers occurring in either the proton or neutron are stable. In some cases there the isotopes can consist of magic numbers for both protons and neutrons; these would be called double magic numbers. The double numbers only occur for isotopes that are heavier, because the repulsion of the forces between the protons. The magic numbers are:

proton: 2, 8, 20, 28, 50, 82, 114
neutron: 2, 8, 20, 28, 50, 82, 126, 184

[combative]

You're so much dumber than you look.

[combative]

You're now trying to argue over the significance of your belief in magic numbers that you didn't even know existed until I told you about them after claiming disbelief in the bible and mocking it for being magic. Now you're trying to take an aggressive stance in defense of magic. You really have no clue what you believe. You have no foundation in reality.

[OddBeMe]

Sure I looked it up.. researched it and found out it’s just another stupid name scientists use to make fun people like you. Like calling Higgs boson the god particle.

[combative]

I'm a scientist. That's why I know these things. You're an ignoramus and can't even stay consistent in your weak arguments.

[OddBeMe]

You’re a scientist who thinks magic numbers really are magic?

[combative]

Sure, but I already explained the etymology of the word magic, which you still fail to grasp. Chemistry historically literally rises out of Alchemy as the learned and priestly class explore and expand their knowledge of the hidden natural forces in this world. The Magicians in the bible you hate so much, are the learned class of people. That's why they care called the wise men... You know, academics. When they are called Magicians in ancient writing you scoff at them, but when they fall under the moniker of Professor in modern times, all the sudden they are respectable and even seemingly worshiped by you. You're inconsistent due to your ignorance of just about everything.

[OddBeMe]

Now you’re trying to prove your god in the space between knowledge we know about and the gap we don’t. There’s a fallacy there….

[combative]

Nope, I already told you that I believe in God. You are the one that disbelieves in God and worships your own limited mind. I just took the time to know the Truth better. Jesus once said, “I am the way and the truth and the life". So to study the truth is to get closer to God. In Isaiah 1:18 it says we are suppose to reason with God (Truth) and in Genesis where my family name comes from we're told man is made in God's likeness and that we have dominion over the Earth. So it would seem it is in our nature to study the natural forces and use them to influence and predict events and produce marvels like electricity that can restart someone's heart and raise the dead or chemically synthesize medicine to heal the sick. It's what God was said to do, and we are made in God's likeness. As Jesus said in John 14:12 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father". So like I said repeatedly, if you can believe in modern science, you can believe in the Bible. Both tell you to pursue the truth, and both say people that believe in the truth will do great works. Both the Bible and modern science rely on a transmission of truth through eye witness accounts.

[OddBeMe]

“if you can believe in modern science, you can believe in the Bible”

False.

Science has demonstrable evidence. The Bible has…nothing.

[combative]

Expert witness testimony and eyewitness testimony are both types of evidence. Clearly you don't understand type of evidence. You're just forking into another topic you are ignorant of.

[combative]

For example one piece of evidence would come from Flavius Josephus (A. D. 37–c. 100) who was a Jewish historian, Jewish priest, and scholar born in Jerusalem four years after the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth in the same city. He is considered the most reputable Jewish historian of his period. If you read his work The Antiquities of the Jews he clearly speaks of Jesus. As a historian located in the same city at the same time and as a Jewish priest and scholar who would be an expert on Tanakh he’s a strong candidate for expert witness testimony. This is what he had to say:

Antiquities 18:63

About this time lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was the achiever of extraordinary deeds and was a teacher of those who accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. When he was indicted by the principal men among us and Pilate condemned him to be crucified, those who had come to love him originally did not cease to do so; for he appeared to them on the third day restored to life, as the prophets of the Deity had foretold these and countless other marvelous things about him, and the tribe of the Christians, so named after him, has not disappeared to this day.

[OddBeMe]

Worst types of evidence are eyewitnesses. On top of which, as the original question asked…YOU are relying on a book translated and marketed by religions for millennia. And the originals can't BE FOUND.

Consensus of historians say Jesus probably existed. Fine. But I think that’s political.

[OddBeMe]

If in 1000 years we find Spider-Man comics…we know New York existed and there were people who WITNESSED Spider-Man,

Does Spider-Man exist?

[combative]

All science is reported by eyewitnesses and reviewed by expert witnesses. That's what peer-reviewed scholarly journals are. So you just tried to discredit what you claim to believe in. Game over for you.

[OddBeMe]

It’s proven by expert witnesses. With published evidence. No one takes a scientists word. I believe in what can be proven.

But kinds sidestepped spider man…

[combative]

What are you even doing here? You already conceded my point. You lost the argument. If you can believe in modern science, then you can believe in the Bible. You've claimed you don't believe in the Bible because witness testimony is the weakest form of evidence in your mind. That witness testimony in scientific reports that are reviewed by expert witnesses is the same type of evidence that supports the Bible, thus you also do not believe in science. You've proven my point. Either you can believe in both, or you have to reject both. You've rejected both based on type of evidence. So go away. You already admitted I'm right.

[jshm2]

No. You're confusing Christian cults, with religion.

[OddBeMe]

What's religion then?

[Hаwk_Tuаh]

Nobody has had the time to study every religion in existence, you arrogant boring fuck.

For those who have a myth, they use it to symbolize occult truth. If you believe in big bang theory you should have nothing against accepting ancient mythology which tell the same story, of course, symbolically, and anyone who interprets myhtology as secular history ìs also retarded.

[OddBeMe]

Strangely I have everything against believing things without facts.

[dustybiker2]

Why is trump so successful? He reads a room.

[dustybiker2]

Well... half the room.

[dreamstar72]

Basically all these religions/books are like books “.,.,.,., for dummies” but, called “Christianity for Dummies”

[Sevenpointfive]

yeah. religion is for dummies

[purplepoppy]

Paganism?

[OddBeMe]

I mean I suppose. I’m sure there’s pagans like Heavens Gate.