Who wants to thank christians for ending 'civilized' rome?

[strateguy632]

we don't know much about rome. it fought to conquer land all around italy and even briton! spreading its civilized 'occupation'.

In italy these 'civilized people' we know had those brutal GLADIATOR fights. but rome collapsed and the east roman empire in istanbul/constantinople switched to christian. no more gladiators. thank you?

[ODC2112]

The Roman Empire collapsed due to demographic issues. This situation can be viewed from a path-dependence perspective. The demographic crisis appears to be the initial critical condition that constrained the Roman state's subsequent options. Among the middle and upper classes, a growing reluctance to shoulder the financial and social burdens of family life spread. The luxury, individualism, and hedonism of the late Republic and Principate made children a "cost" rather than a resource. In imperial society, childlessness had become a political and economic status symbol. The wealthy without heirs were courted by clients and speculators seeking favourable wills. This created a perverse social incentive to remain childless. Practices such as exposing newborns (especially females) or the use of abortifacients were widespread and socially accepted. This not only reduced the immediate population but also altered the sex ratio in subsequent generations. This "birth strike" disproportionately affected the ruling classes and Italian landowners. Consequently, to maintain the bureaucratic and military apparatus, the empire was forced into a continuous "provincialisation" and, subsequently, "barbarisation" of its elites.
The decline in the number of children and the epidemics of the second and third centuries, particularly the Antonine Plague and the Plague of Cyprian, altered the trajectory of imperial development. Diocletian's and Constantine's reforms to stabilise tax revenues demonstrate this economic constraint. To secure revenue, the state tied land to farmers and made professions hereditary. This institutional rigidity produced political inefficiency by reducing social mobility and fuelling the corruption of local elites. The ruling classes began to shirk public duties to protect their wealth from imperial taxation. External pressure also proved to be a consequence of this demographic trajectory. The chronic shortage of citizens of military age forced the empire to recruit barbarian contingents into the army. The invasions were successful because the previous path had already deprived the empire of the human and financial resources to integrate or repel them. The demographic crisis was the factor that deprived the system of the resilience needed to manage subsequent shocks.

It explained a large share, but the answer is almost multifactorial. It is necessary to add other factors, such as external pressures. The Hunnic migrations triggered the 376 AD Gothic crossing and later waves. The Western Empire lost key tax-rich provinces (e. g., Africa). The East survived partly due to better geography and revenue.

Economic and structural issues Over-taxation, inflation, corruption, civil wars, reliance on slave labour (which stalled innovation when expansion stopped), and elite overproduction/in-fighting also played big roles, but many of them were related to population shrinkage.

The end of the Roman Climate Optimum plus variability added agricultural stress.

Regarding gladiators, Christianity played a decisive role in ending this brutal practice, although the decline was gradual and also influenced by high economic costs and social changes. It wasn't instantaneous, but it ended before the final collapse of the Western Empire.

[strateguy632]

nope. that neither ended brutal gladiator nor was true. they had kids! but emperor was christian and influecenced by TELEMACHUS.

[Just_Ken]

It was Christianity that meant the Roman empire survived in the east for over 1000 years after it was introduced falling a few decades before columbus sailed for the americas and around the same time the vikings left the Americas. Chariot racing was their big sport and was bigger than gladiatoral contests.

Christianity under Constantine restored the empire that was broken by civil wars and in decline.

Also Rome survives to this day due to the Catholic Church. In Europe you had Knightly tournaments.

[strateguy632]

granted and you agree brutal gladiator stopped due to christian mercy. we can argue semantics if istanbul is roman.

[Just_Ken]

Eerrm they were certainly brutal but nothing maybe compared to the chariot racing or beast fights. Most gladiators lived after a fight, they were well staged fights and unlike gladiators who live to tetire charioteers usually died trampled or dragged to their death in the circus maxima.
Gladiator games were expensive designed to entertain the masses which was ok at romes height.
Medieval tournaments and duels could be brutal, especially before they got regulated

[strateguy632]

oh i thought they were fight to death so half died?

[Just_Ken]

Only for big events. Think about it. You spend years buying, training, feeding and selecting the best specimens for gladiators and lose them in a single fight, its a lot of money.

[strateguy632]

that makes sense. kinda like boxing but worse wounds!

[FrodoSkywalker007]

It'd a bit more complicated than that, but sure Christianity had its positives

[strateguy632]

i guess you didn't hear about constantine?